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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2009,18:26) GB,
“And by the way God has all the good intellect and all the evil intellect that ever existed ,”
Not our god.
Sounds closer to the lying god of this world.
T8………But this is acceptable with you right, for Nick to say my God sounds closer to the lying god of this world. Another words implying my GOD is SATAN.Where is you warning to Nick about saying that among other things.
Kinda of a one sided ball game right?So Nicks false portal or the true GOD is acceptable to you as well as him saying my god is Satan . Does the word (Hypocrisy) sound reasonable here.
He has no problem casting Judgments on others but when it come to receiving it Back O thats another matter.
Look i have no problem with Nick disagreeing with me or anyone else for that matter, everyone has a right to their own opinions and should have a right to freely express them , But Nick gets away with going beyond that time and time again. I never see any warning to Him. Just others. If this site is being used for a preaching ministry of you or Nicks own personal convictions and is not really about open dialog, then we should all be made aware of that. But i thought it was a site where we could openly have discussions of what we believe Scripture is saying about different subject matters. I might have been completely wrong it could be a site of, who ever agrees with me and what i say OK, whoever doesn't get out .
I believe if you are going to reprehend me then you should Nick also to be fair and tell him to stop putting People down and stop to condescending on them if the disagree with him .
love and peace to you and yours………………………gene
Nick……….To say GOD is Love and does not have INTELLECT, you must not know the meaning of the word intellect, even God's love is derived from His intellect, (“for God pity's us as a Father pity's a Child) Pitting is a result of Knowledge or intellect. When you see a child abused don't you feel sorry for it.
In fact here is how it works………once i was watching a News footage of a war, and this camera was set up in this ally pointing down the street, the bomb and gun fire was so bad and the camera man focused on these two little girls about 3 years old , they were poorly dressed and had dirty little faces and were so scared the did they didn't know what to do , they were terrified so one little girl reached out her little hand and just garbed the others little little girls, i broke down and immediately turned it off, weeping bitterly and cryed out GOD I HATE WAR> If they would show that to every one on this earth i think there would be no wars. It so burned into my mind I can still see those little girls in my mind to this day, and it still makes me weep.
So tell me Nick do i have the Knowledge or intellect of what war was does, and does it still cause me to hate it, and I am just a man, who much more does GOD KNOW How much greater is His understanding , How much greater is His intellect about everything and how much greater is His heart sorrowed for us all? God is LOVE because HE KNOWS ALL THING.
love and peace to you and yours…………………gene
GB,
We should stick to the subject of the wonderful and Holy Spirit of God.
God is love of His nature and not because of knowing everything.This knowledge /understanding/intellect obsession of yours really is unhelpful.
Nick……..you are seriously wrong, God is Love (BECAUSE HE KNOWS ALL THINGS) every thing is a matter of Cause and effect, And we are not as loving as He (BECAUSE) we don't understand things as He does. Your exclusion of true understanding and Knowledge or intellect of God is a great error of yours. imo
Scripture even say we are to grow with GRACE and KNOWLEDGE , and in another place it say with knowledge get understanding. Love is not some magic formula, it is the result of understanding and Knowledge. When God gives us His love He does it by opening our eye of understanding. Why do you think GOD put man through all this if not to learn knowledge and get understanding , To believe otherwise is to make GOD cruel and uncaring. No all this we go through is for a great purpose of getting understanding true understanding. No magic trick Nick, real knowledge and understanding being given to us all by GOD. imo
love and peace…………………gene
GB,
Why does man go though all this?
So he would learn he is helpless and ignorant and needs to plead for the help of his God.
It was never to show him how clever a man is or how much great human potential he has in himself.SUCH IS FOLLY AND ABSURD VANITY.
Learning is by grace.
True knowledge is by grace.
We must learn to become as a child .
God gives grace to the humble.Trinitarians believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate “being” of the triune God. I suggest this was not the message of scriptures. It is never mentioned of the Spirit as being the “third person of the trinity” anywhere in scriptures.
As Michael L. Brown says in Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus,” p. 53:
Quote …Is the “Spirit of God” the same as “God”? Yes and no. The Spirit clearly has personality, since the Holy Spirit instructs the people of Israel and can be grieved or angered. Yet the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God-i.e., God's very Spirit, he is both giving himself as well as giving of himself. The key is always this: God touches us, teaches us, interacts with us, and empowers us by his Spirit. With that understanding it is very easy to understand why the “Holy Spirit” is not mentioned along with the Father in these following verses since references speaking of the person of the Father would assume that the innermost part of the Father to obviously be included in His person. See below and you will find plenty of scriptures that you would think would mention all “three persons” of the trinity but doesn't:
Matt 24:36
36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone.
NASUJohn 5:23
23 so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
NASUJohn 5:26
26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
NASUJohn 6:40
40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
NASUJohn 6:46
46 “Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
NASU1 John 2:23-24
23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
24 As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.
NASU2 John 3
3 Grace, mercy and peace will be with us, from God the Father and from Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
NASU2 John 9
9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.
NASUPeace and love,
KathiHi Kathi
Quote (Lightenup @ Aug. 16 2009,23:37) Trinitarians believe that the Holy Spirit is a separate “being” of the triune God.
You start this thread with your statement above that is totally misrepresenting the Trinitarian faith. I find it hard to believe that as much as you have heard and read here of our belief that you do not know that your statement is not true!I can't respond at the moment, but will soon!
Blessings Keith
Hi,
The Fathers Spirit can speak in us.
The Spirit issues from the Father and through the Son to us.There is no trinity except in the minds of men and their devoted servants.
To ALL…………WE are told in 2 Ths2, that GOD would delude the minds of those that did not recieve the Love of Truth , anyone who has the spirit of truth in them can easily see the confusion of Trinitarian Ideology, why do you think they have to go to such greats length to try to explain there teachings and change word meanings in the text to try to support their false teachings. They are nothing more then modern GNOSTIC'S, with the exception of Jesus being said to be 100% man and 100% GOD, at least the Gnostic's had enough sense to know you can't be both. But these modern blind Bats can't even see the impossibility of that statement. When GOD deludes someone , no one can un-dulude them , GOD has His own reasons for this and the LIE will in the end be abolished by no other then Jesus himself as 2 Ths 2 says. Until then the false teaching of the TRINITY will endure, Only a few GOD has allowed to see through the LIE. IMO
peace and love to you all………………….gene
Hi guys,
This is my first post. So Hello. Like many here God has lead me to seriously doubt the trinity and I was pleasantly surprised to see that much of what God was showing me, someone else was seeing as well. I have something else I feel god has been showing me that I havent seen posted in here. I will simply state my thoughts without alot of scripture as most here seem to know scripture well enough to form an opinion. Here goes:
I believe proverbs 8 is describing the bringing forth not of jesus but of the Holy Spirit and that the Word was also the HS. The HS is the SON of god (or the preincarnate christ). In Genesis one we see only 2 and they are God and the HS. We see the HS doing the creating with God in the beginning. As such Jesus of Nazareth, the man, seems to have become the God-Man when he was born again at his baptism and recieved the infilling of the Son of God/hs. We too recieve this same filling as we submit to christ. Hence Jesus has become the exact image of God by way of the son of god and we shall one day bear that exact image because we have the spirit in us.
I am still getting this all straight in my head but this scripture seems clear:
John 14
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. 18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.The only one that has been dwelling with them has been jesus the man and the HS in Jesus. Hence it would seem that it was the son of god/HS that was coming back and thats what we see.
I think often times there is seperation in whos talking in the gospel. Often, as jesus even says, its the spirit in him. Its not his words its HIS.
Jesus the man is clearly unique. BUt I think he is like Adam. He is the second adam after all. And when he by obedience recieved the son of god into himself, he became the exact image of god in the flesh.
I hope what I said made sense. As I said I am still ironing it all out. But I would love to hear some thoughts on the matter from folks. Please do not take to debating the trinity here as that has been done plenty in other places. I am curious about the spirit as the preincarnate son of god.
God Bless
JeffWL…………….Welcome to the site, Let me say this it is obvious GOD is definitely working with you, your understanding bears witness of it. GOD is SPIRIT, and He is Holy Spirit. The Spirit of GOD does produce SONS of GOD and comes to live (IN) us as (IT) did in JESUS, (IT) also can in us too. YOU have that Right. I love it when GOD begins to open the minds of those He is calling. IMO
peace and love to you an yours…………………………………..gene
Welcome, Jeff!
Don't be surprised if it takes you your lifetime to “iron it out”.
Glad that you are here.Love,
MandyThankyou for the welcomes!
Any thoughts on the question? I havent seen any posts on the HS yet. I am sure someone must have commented on this at some point but I have not yet seen it. After all there is nothing knew under the sun.
God Bless
JeffJeff………..HOLY SPIRIT is what it says, (HOLY) or SPECIAL or set aside, SPIRIT, or (INTELLECT) GOD is SPIRIT and the are seven Spirits of GOD, WE have been given the earnest (THE SPIRIT) OR (INTELLECT) TO KNOW OR RECOGNIZE (TRUTH). this is (ONE) part of the holy spirits of GOD. Jesus has all seven in HIM. You can find it in the book of revelations. Spirit is (NOT) a PERSON it is (INTELLECT) in the PERSON. There are (NO) spirit beings there is Spirit (IN) beings. When SPIRIT combines with a BODY it becomes a living SOUL. AS when GOD breathed His Spirit into ADAM and He became (then) a living soul. IMO
peace and love……………….gene
G,
God did not say He breathed his Holy Spirit into Adam in Gen 2 did he?
The fruit has never been of God's Spirit
Did you make this up?I thought I would repost some of my thoughts here since this seems to be where the HS discussion is. I would love to hear thoughts on the matter.
The Holy spirit, I think IS the Son of God. We see in genesis that there are only 2. There is God and the world is created THROUGH the HS. The first thing he creates is LIGHT. (This is a whole topic here.) When Jesus the man was baptised by the spirit, I think is when he became the God-man. That would make the man Jesus unique as a second adam. He was born with no iniquity and hence pure blood and he sinned not. (iniquity is passed in the fathers line and his pop was the Spirit.)
So God begat the HS/son and the HS/son of god filled the man Jesus.
When jesus said that they knew the spirit because he dwelt WITH THEM and was basically coming back, he meant that the son of god/spirit that occupied himself would be poured out on all.
One other thought. The HS also seems to be the angel of the lord. Holy spirit really just means “set apart” Spirit. Spirits are breaths as are angels. This would suggest along with proverbs 8 (which is talking of the HS/son not jesus the man as I see it) that the HS was brought forth at the start and then created all with God. Its possible, though I am not certain, that the HS/SON could be Michael.
Michael was a “son of god” and the prince of israel. He would have been a breath/spirit. Its possible that the HS could be Michael. Also when Jesus returns he does so with the voice of an arch angel. Just some thoughts. I am not a JW in any way. THis is just what I feel gods been showing me.
God Bless
JeffPS: Nick you can remove the post I started if you want since I posted in here instead. Thanks.
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