The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick……why are you trying to leave the Father out of this and making it all about Jesus, this is something Jesus never did, Jesus whole life was about the Fathers and His Spirit working in Him. You said God does not pour his Spirit on man but we recieve it from Jesus, is the way i understood what you were saying

peace……………..gene

[NickHassan]

come again GB,
The Spirit of God is like the sap in the vine.
But the wonderful vine is our master.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 15 2008,09:01)

Hi GM, God poured of His Spirit into Christ and does not repour into us but insists that we share in the Spirit given to Jesus.   Jn7 37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) Thus we are one in the Spirit with God and with Jesus and each other and the men of old. No longer jew and gentile but one.

Nick….this is what you wrote, God poured of His Spirit into Christ and does not repour into us , but insists that we share in the Spirit given Jesus.

Nick who ever said He (repoured) it into into anyone, whats your point then.

peace………………….gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
So if you agree what is your point?

[NickHassan]

GB,
Jesus is the source of that Spirit for us.
Life is in him.
Jn7
37In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Rom8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick…..that what i thought you were saying , but i Thought GOD was the SOURCE of the Spirit, according to Scriptures. But you some how have twisted it to say Jesus HIMSELF IS THE SOURCE. Where is the Father in you Picture, and why did Jesus say” He could do nothing of (HIMSELF)”. I think you are a little confused on who the SOURCE of the SPIRIT Brother. You need to glorify who Jesus glorified ( The Father)

peace……………….gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
The ultimate source for God's Spirit is God.
But God made Jesus our source.

[GeneBalthrop]

Nick………”O” really, where is that written, Jesus said (NO) man (CAN) come unto me Except the Father draw Him. I think GOD is Still the same source as he is with Jesus. Jesus is my brother and Lord , not MY GOD. I'll give the Father all the glory as Jesus did thanks anyway.

peace brother………………gene

[NickHassan]

GB,
So the Father draws men to Jesus.

[gollamudi]

Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 05 2008,15:01)

Hi all, We lost track of one of my favourite threads “The Holy Spirit”. Here are my new queries; 1. If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father then how does Jesus have control over that in saying “I will send the comforter from the Father” ? 2. If there is only one Spirit as told by Paul, then how did Jesus say that Father and himself come and take their abode in a person ? 3. There are many places in the Bible it is mentioned that we haved recieved the Spirit of the Father and some places it is also mentioned that we have received the Spirit of Jesus; if so how many Spirits do they make ? Please debate on these questions if you are interested. Peace to all Adam

Hi bro Nick and Sis Meerkat,
These were my questions to all but none had replied fully. Please reconsider your thoughts and reply to my post above.

thanks and peace to you
Adam

[meerkat]

lol ….
going back to look at question

[meerkat]

Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 05 2008,15:01)

Hi all, We lost track of one of my favourite threads “The Holy Spirit”. Here are my new queries; 1. If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father then how does Jesus have control over that in saying “I will send the comforter from the Father” ? 2. If there is only one Spirit as told by Paul, then how did Jesus say that Father and himself come and take their abode in a person ? 3. There are many places in the Bible it is mentioned that we haved recieved the Spirit of the Father and some places it is also mentioned that we have received the Spirit of Jesus; if so how many Spirits do they make ? Please debate on these questions if you are interested. Peace to all Adam

ok

I'm game – I'll start the debate (then back away)
1. Jesus says the Father will send in his name (Jesus does not send the Spirit) John 14:26

2. Because The Holy Spirit is part of God and the Holy Spirit is in Jesus (his Son) When the Holy Spirit (which is not spiritually separate from God) comes to us in Jesus name – they are both in us Rom 8:9

3. Only one Spirit (Gods Spirit)

Wondering if it is like germination of a seed – at conception we are a physical body with a spiritual seed – the physical body(including soul) needs to die, and the spiritual seed needs to be germinated/conceived by the Holy Spirit – if we are conceived by the Holy Spirit we will be like Christ – Christ is the firstborn above all the creation (spiritual creation) and because the same Spirit of God is in us that is in Christ we are connected to Christ – co-heirs and not the same as Christ.

[Tiffany]

Adam

Jesus said, if I go not to the Father He can not send you the Holy Spirit, comforter. Jesus had to first present himself as OUR sin offering, sacrifice, only after the Father excepted Christs sacrifice did He forgive us of our sins; and so made it possible to send us his Holy Spirit. God does not dwell in sinful men.
There is only one Holy Spirit, but we all have a spirit, 1 Cor. 2:11. I think this should also answer your next question.

Georg

[GeneBalthrop]

To all……the problem here is understanding what Spirit is, once we understand that then everything begins to falls into place. Spirit is not like a separate (BEING) it is (Intellect or THOUGHT) EXPRESSED through (WORDS) and is in all man kind. Jesus said the (WORDS) were SPIRIT,Think of Spirit as words, lets say every word is a Spirit. if i say House everyone of you have that spirit (intellect or thought) in you, you know what it is , HOLY SPIRIT is (a Special intellect Of TRUTH) Given from GOD that enables all who have it to realize TRUTH. No one can perceive true Spiritual realization without it. Gods Spirit is pristine reality of truth. It's like God raises our intellect or thoughts to a higher plain, His plain. The more of His Spirit (intellect or thought) we Have the More we become Like HIM. That the reason it is important we ask for it, and as He gives it to us we will increase in GODLY understanding. Any way this is how i understand Spirit.

[NickHassan]

GB,
Actually Jesus likened it to the finger of God [lk11]
The Spirit is powerful not just a great intelligence.

Acts 10
38How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Understanding is only one small aspect of Spirit.
Men worship intelligence but it is flawed in men.

Intellect does not even appear in scripture so do not elevate it.
Doing so separates your own religion from that of God.

[Tiffany]

Well explained Gene.

Georg

[meerkat]

Nick

From what I can see even though you think you are saying something different to Gene – the meaning is the same – our actions are produced by our thoughts – It would be the same as God – Gods Spirit is not separate from him, it is how he created, influences and acts upon his creation.

H7307
רוּח
rûach
roo'-akh
From H7306; wind; by resemblance breath, that is, a sensible (or even violent) exhalation; figuratively life, anger, unsubstantiality; by extension a region of the sky; by resemblance spirit, but only of a rational being (including its expression and functions): – air, anger, blast, breath, X cool, courage, mind, X quarter, X side, spirit ([-ual]), tempest, X vain, ([whirl-]) wind (-y).

What the Spirit produces is not limited to intelligence.

[NickHassan]

Hi mk,
Carnal thoughts will always turn away fromn the ways of God.
That is why our minds must be transformed by renewal.
The Word of God must be allowed to rule there.

Men assume because they have tasted the powers from above their minds are now led as well.
Nothing could be further from the truth as we must watch ourselves and cast down speculations.

Unless we do so we become as isolated in the wilderness, alone and ever ignorant

[gollamudi]

Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 15 2008,19:10)

Quote (gollamudi @ Oct. 05 2008,15:01) Hi all, We lost track of one of my favourite threads “The Holy Spirit”. Here are my new queries; 1. If the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father then how does Jesus have control over that in saying “I will send the comforter from the Father” ? 2. If there is only one Spirit as told by Paul, then how did Jesus say that Father and himself come and take their abode in a person ? 3. There are many places in the Bible it is mentioned that we haved recieved the Spirit of the Father and some places it is also mentioned that we have received the Spirit of Jesus; if so how many Spirits do they make ? Please debate on these questions if you are interested. Peace to all Adam ok I'm game – I'll start the debate (then back away) 1. Jesus says  the Father will send in his name (Jesus does not send the Spirit)  John 14:26 2.  Because The Holy Spirit is part of God and the Holy Spirit is in Jesus (his Son) When the Holy Spirit (which is not spiritually separate from God) comes to us in Jesus name – they are both in us  Rom 8:9 3. Only one Spirit (Gods Spirit) Wondering if it is like germination of a seed – at conception we are a physical body with a spiritual seed – the physical body(including soul) needs to die, and the spiritual seed needs to be germinated/conceived by the Holy Spirit   – if we are conceived by the Holy Spirit we will be like Christ  – Christ is the firstborn above all the creation (spiritual creation) and because the same Spirit of God is in us that is in Christ we are connected to Christ – co-heirs and not the same as Christ.

Hi Sis Meerkat,
Thanks for your reply to my questions on the Holy Spirit. I am still fully not satisfied with the answers given by you and others. Please see the verses in Jn 14:

16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

and also Jn 16:

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

These verses clearly say that the Holy Spirit is other than Father & Jesus and also Jesus is able to send him. See the subordination of the Holy Spirit to Jesus in these verses in Jn 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

These verses clear speak of Jesus superiority above the Holy Spirit. So far none has answered my questions fully. Please think over on these following questions also;

1. My basic question to all is if you say Holy Spirit is the God's own Spirit then how such language of sending the Holy Spirit by Father or Jesus is appearing in the bible ?

2. If you say that Holy Spirit is same as the Spirit of Jesus then how could Jesus say that both father and Jesus come and take abode in us ?

3. If Holy Spirit is the Father's Spirit how could Paul write blessings in the name of Father, Jesus and also communion of the Holy Spirit separately in 2 Cor 13:14 ?

Blessings
Adam

[NickHassan]

Hi GM,
The Spirit of God is separate from Jesus and God?
You must be joking.

The Spirit is as the finger of God and mainfested fully in Jesus.

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