The Holy Spirit, a separate person, essence of God, or force?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So you say there are three persons in the Spirit and one of them IS the Spirit?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,09:27)

Hi WJ, So you say there are three persons in the Spirit and one of them IS the Spirit?

NH

I have been here for two years and you still havnt got it right.

Do you read or even listen to others post.

I have never said three persons are “IN” anything.

There is One God, Three persons, One Spirit.

So it is written.

[942767]

Hi WJ:

With all due respect to you and to brother Isaiah and Glen Miller to whom brother Isaiah referred us for his study relative to the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul states specifcally that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, and so, how can we through our own interpretation of scriptures pertaining to the Holy Spirit come up with something other than the Apostle Paul has already stated?

I believe that what you may tend to be missing is that God is a living being or soul.  In Genesis we read that God created man in His own image, and read that the First Adam was made a living soul, and so if man is in His image as a living soul, then God is a living soul.  A living soul is a person with a mind, a free will, and emotions.  In John 4 Jesus states that God is Spirit and in 1 John the scritpure states that God is love.  The works that a person does or the life that he lives determines who he is.  How do we know that God is Holy?  Is it not by what He does?  In us as God's children God's Holy Spirit dwells within us in the role of our Father to lead us into all truths in the Word of God.  The spirit of Christ is the spirit of the Son and that spirit are the works, the life that Jesus God's only begotten Son lived in obedience to God our Father without sin even unto death on the cross.

I have discussed with you that Jesus did not teach his own thoughts in another discussion.  I don't think that I shared the following scripture:  In John 14:24 Jesus states:  “He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word whch ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”

Acknowledging that God called Jesus God when He exalted him to His right hand as head of the church, I believe that he is God in that he is the express image of God's person.  But he himself is subjected to God and we are subjected to God through him.  It is the Word of God coming from our Father that we as His children obey.

I've read your posts in response to my question asking you “If the Holy Spirit is not God's personal Spirit then how do you interpret 1 Co. 2:9-12?” in the pre-existence thread, and I will re-read your response to make sure that I have answered all of have stated.

One of the scriptures that you and brother Isaiah bring up to justify your postion is Romans 8:26-27 which states: “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.  And he (this is not capitalized and so this is probably Jesus) that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (God is revealing to Jesus what he needs to ask in our behalf), because he(Jesus) maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God”.

I just don't see how you or anyone can say that they have come up with a differenct conclusion about the Holy Spirit than what the Apostle Paul has specifically stated.  The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit.

God Bless

[NickHassan]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 14 2008,09:33)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,09:27) Hi WJ, So you say there are three persons in the Spirit and one of them IS the Spirit? NH I have been here for two years and you still havnt got it right. Do you read or even listen to others post. I have never said three persons are “IN” anything. There is One God, Three persons, One Spirit. So it is written.

Hi WJ,
So one of your PERSONS is also that one Spirit?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ June 14 2008,12:39)

Hi WJ: With all due respect to you and to brother Isaiah and Glen Miller to whom brother Isaiah referred us for his study relative to the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul states specifcally that the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit, and so, how can we through our own interpretation of scriptures pertaining to the Holy Spirit come up with something other than the Apostle Paul has already stated? I believe that what you may tend to be missing is that God is a living being or soul.  In Genesis we read that God created man in His own image, and read that the First Adam was made a living soul, and so if man is in His image as a living soul, then God is a living soul.  A living soul is a person with a mind, a free will, and emotions.  In John 4 Jesus states that God is Spirit and in 1 John the scritpure states that God is love.  The works that a person does or the life that he lives determines who he is.  How do we know that God is Holy?  Is it not by what He does?  In us as God's children God's Holy Spirit dwells within us in the role of our Father to lead us into all truths in the Word of God.  The spirit of Christ is the spirit of the Son and that spirit are the works, the life that Jesus God's only begotten Son lived in obedience to God our Father without sin even unto death on the cross. I have discussed with you that Jesus did not teach his own thoughts in another discussion.  I don't think that I shared the following scripture:  In John 14:24 Jesus states:  “He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word whch ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.” Acknowledging that God called Jesus God when He exalted him to His right hand as head of the church, I believe that he is God in that he is the express image of God's person.  But he himself is subjected to God and we are subjected to God through him.  It is the Word of God coming from our Father that we as His children obey. I've read your posts in response to my question asking you “If the Holy Spirit is not God's personal Spirit then how do you interpret 1 Co. 2:9-12?” in the pre-existence thread, and I will re-read your response to make sure that I have answered all of have stated. One of the scriptures that you and brother Isaiah bring up to justify your postion is Romans 8:26-27 which states: “Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.  And he (this is not capitalized and so this is probably Jesus) that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit (God is revealing to Jesus what he needs to ask in our behalf), because he(Jesus) maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God”. I just don't see how you or anyone can say that they have come up with a differenct conclusion about the Holy Spirit than what the Apostle Paul has specifically stated.  The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit. God Bless

94

With all due respect I accept all of scriptures as the inspired word of God.

Do the study my friend and you will see their is three spoken of yet we have recieved One Spirit.

Now if you can explain the following to me I will give up my Trinitarian view., and become a dualist if there is such a thing.

If the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then explain this…

Jn 16:13
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Cant be the Father…

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,13:06)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 14 2008,09:33) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,09:27) Hi WJ, So you say there are three persons in the Spirit and one of them IS the Spirit? NH I have been here for two years and you still havnt got it right. Do you read or even listen to others post. I have never said three persons are “IN” anything. There is One God, Three persons, One Spirit. So it is written. Hi WJ, So one of your PERSONS is also that one Spirit?

NH

Read the post above and believe the scriptures.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
So when scripture speaks of the Holy Spirit that is speaking of a person in God, or God's Spirit?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
How can you tell when scripture is referring to the person of the Spirit or the Spirit of God?
So each of your PERSONS has a spirit, including the Spirit?
Did Jesus have three Persons in him, as you say you have, was one of them himself?
Does that not make four?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,14:02)

Hi WJ, How can you tell when scripture is referring to the person of the Spirit or the Spirit of God? So each of your PERSONS has a spirit, including the Spirit? Did Jesus have three Persons in him, as you say you have, was one of them himself? Does that not make four?

NH

Father

And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 2 Cor 6:16

Son

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? 2 Cor 13:5

Holy Spirit (parakletos)

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you [b]another Comforter, ( parakletos) that he may abide with you for ever;
Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:16, 17

Notice the Father dwelling in me and walking in me?

Notice that Jesus Christ is in me or I am reprobate?

Notice the “parakletos” is in me?

I realize your Arian theology may not allow you to believe just these three scriptures, of course there are plenty more.

At least stop with all the jumbling of my words and pretending you do not know what I mean.

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
Now back to the questions?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
You should not search the scriptures for hints of doctrinal support.
That is not Berean.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 14 2008,18:06)

Hi WJ, You should not search the scriptures for hints of doctrinal support. That is not Berean.

NH

The Bereans searched the scriptures to see whether those things were so, what things?

The doctrine of the Apostles!

These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Acts 17:11

Do you recieve the scriptures I quoted with readiness of mind?

Or do you let your doctrine determine how you accept them?

[NickHassan]

Hi WJ,
I know you said FORGET THE TRINITY but you still teach it.
Why not discard human fabrications and traditional teachings and additions.
You say you love the word so why put you mouth where your money is and hold it higher than man's teachings.

[Lightenup]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 13 2008,01:44)

WJ[/quote] Hi WJ, By reading your response, I must not have made myself clear.  You have made some inferences that I did not intend.  I may hash it out with you later but now, I want to write about “God is Spirit”.   I believe that this refers to having a spirit type of body as opposed to a flesh and blood type of body.  I do not think that it means to say that God is the Holy Spirit.  In other words, it would not be true to say God is flesh and blood but it would be true to say that God is spirit.  The word “spirit” refers to the type of body that God has. He has no flesh and He has no bones. A spirit does not have flesh and bones. John 4:19-24 4:19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I see 46  that you are a prophet. 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, 47  and you people 48  say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.” 49  4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, 50  a time 51  is coming when you will worship 52  the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 4:22 You people 53  worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 54  4:23 But a time 55  is coming – and now is here 56  – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks 57  such people to be 58  his worshipers. 59  4:24 God is spirit, 60  and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); 61  “whenever he 62  comes, he will tell 63  us everything.” 64  4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.” 1Co 15:50 Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot * inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable We will have spirit bodies in the future and we will worship Him in those spirit bodies.  The spirit bodies are imperishable. Luke 24:36+ 36While they were telling these things, (AH)He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing (AI)a spirit. 38And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39″(AJ)See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; (AK)touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41While they still (AL)could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “(AM)Have you anything here to eat?” 42They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43and He took it and (AN)ate it before them. A spirit body does not have flesh and bones. Later Gater, LU

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WJ,
Regarding this passage:
John 4:19-24
4:19 The woman said to him, “Sir, I see 46  that you are a prophet. 4:20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, 47  and you people 48  say that the place where people must worship is in Jerusalem.” 49  4:21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, 50  a time 51  is coming when you will worship 52  the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 4:22 You people 53  worship what you do not know. We worship what we know, because salvation is from the Jews. 54  4:23 But a time 55  is coming – and now is here 56  – when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks 57  such people to be 58  his worshipers. 59  4:24 God is spirit, 60  and the people who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 4:25 The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (the one called Christ); 61  “whenever he 62  comes, he will tell 63  us everything.” 64  4:26 Jesus said to her, “I, the one speaking to you, am he.”

One of the things this passage is talking about is where and how we will worship God, the Father.  If we are in our flesh and blood bodies, our corruptible bodies, we are limited in our worship.  After we die and we have our incorruptible bodies (heavenly bodies, spirit bodies) we will be able to see things clearly about God, right?  We will be “in spirit” rather than “in flesh and blood”, right?  We will not be limited to worshipping Him on “this mountain nor in Jerusalem” for we will be in the spiritual realm where we will see Him clearly and not dimly like now.  So if we see Him clearly and worship Him, well, isn't that better than seeing Him “dimly” and worshipping Him.  Wouldn't that be more of a true worship. Hence, we will worship Him in spirit and in truth as opposed to now when we worship in flesh and blood and in some truth.  I believe that the truth we have now is some truth compared to the truth we will have when in spirit, in our uncorruptible bodies.  God desires us to see Him clearly and we will.  Hallelujah, but not until we our in spirit bodies.

Notice that verse 24 says “God is spirit” it doesn't say that God is “a” spirit.

WJ, if I say that man is flesh and blood, do you understand that I am referring to his body, not his mind or his inner spirit?
It would be odd to say the same thing and add the word “a”.  “That man is 'A' flesh and blood”.

Someday we might say that man, in the incorruptible body, is spirit and no longer flesh and blood.  No need to add the word “a” like this: “someday we will say that man, in the incorruptible body, is A spirit and no longer A flesh and blood.”  Saying “a flesh and blood” sounds weird because merely saying “flesh and blood” without adding “a” is a more familiar way to say it.  We are unfamiliar with what our bodies will be like after we die but I do believe that we will be spirit and not flesh and blood.  We will probably be able to go in and out of appearance like angels seem to do and well, we aren't sure maybe we will be able to hover

My point is “spirit” can mean incorruptible body, that which will in the future contain our spirit that we have now.  The term “spirit” has many meanings.  Today, our spirit is contained in flesh and blood.  In the future, our spirit will be contained in a new body, it will be contained in spirit, not flesh and blood, our very own hovercraft. LOL

We know that God has arms, hands, a face, can sit on a throne, etc. but not flesh and blood arms, hands and face, right?  What other kind of body would God have but a spirit body?  Hence, God is spirit in the sense that He has a spirit body.

I believe that the spirit body that God has, would contain His mind and inner spirit-the Holy Spirit.  Our flesh and blood bodies contain our mind and our inner spirit.

Nouns are words that mean a person, place, or thing.  Keep that in mind when reading this:  
My flesh and blood is not the complete me it is merely a part of me (a thing).
My mind is not the complete me, it is merely a part of me (a thing).
My inner spirit is  not the complete me, it is merely a part of me (a thing).
Put all these things together and you get me-a person.
In a similar way:
God's spirit body is not God but a part of God (a thing).
God's mind is not God but a part of God (a thing).
God's inner spirit is not God but a part of God (a thing).
Put them all together, you have God, the person which is not a thing.  

Quote

1Co 15:50 Now I say th is, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot * inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable

Things are going to be alot different when we are in spirit bodies than they are now in flesh and blood bodies.

I hope that explains “God is spirit” as regards to the type of body He has.

I am trying to explain things to you WJ.  I am afraid that you are going to pick this apart and miss the message.  You know the term “he can't see the forest for the trees”?  I think that is how it is said anyway.  It means that one can pick at small details and miss the whole picture.  I pray that you get the whole picture here.

Also, you have labeled me as a Henotheist but that is not what I would label me.  I would appreciate it if you would not label me as that.  Because you said that tells me that you do not get what I am.

Sincerely,
LU

[942767]

Hi Brother WJ:

You say:

Quote

If the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

It is through His Holy Spirit that God reveals what is on the mind of God.  The Holy Spirit is not a living soul who speaks his own thoughts, but he is God's personal presence with us and leads us into all truths in the written Word.  All of the gospels and the epistles end with “amen” except the Acts of the Apostles which means that nothing can be added to the gospels or the epistles, and so God will lead us into all truths in what has already been written.  The Acts, however, is still open because God is still at work through his people.

Quote

1Cr 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10  But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

You say:

Quote

Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Yes, it is God our Father who will be guiding us into all truths in the written Word.  God speaks to us by His Spirit.

And you say:

Quote

Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

No, it is definitely not Yeshua, it is the Father speaking by His Spirit.  The Father testifies regarding His Beloved Son and His Christ.  Jesus is God's heir.  God has made all things in this world and in the worlds to come by him and for him.  Jesus explains this saying,

Quote

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you

 He said, “ALL THINGS THAT THE FATHER HATH ARE MINE, THEREFORE SAID I…”.

You say:

Quote

Does the Father take from Jesus and give to us?

Again Jesus is God's heir and he has chosen to share his inheritance with us.

Next you ask:

Quote

Did Jesus send the Father?

It is Jesus who baptizes with the Holy Ghost.  No man can come to the Father but through him.  Therefore, the Holy Spirit flows through him to the believer.  It is not like Jesus has authority over the Father, but he has prayed that God would send His Spirit as our Comforter.  I'll give you the scripture to support this below:

Quote

Jhn 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Well, now God our Father has answered his prayer and sends us His Spirit through His Son.

You say:

Quote

There is three. Yet one Spirit. Yeshua confirms this in Matt 28:19, an unambiguous scripture clearly showing the three.

No, there are two souls the Father and the Son and One Spirit, the Holy Spirit.  Notice also that the scritpure states baptizing them “in the name”  not names..  This implies unity in purpose which the salvation of God's children from the consequence of sin.   The “name” is “Jesus” which means “Jehovah is salvation”.

You say:

Quote

As I have shown LU that even the verbs surrounding the pronouns in John 16:13-15 clearly shows the Holy Spirit Yeshua is speaking of as “Another”… And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, ( parakletos) , that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16

Yes, he was speaking of another Comforter other than himself as he was going to go to the Father.  But he explains in the following scriptures that he is speaking of the Holy Spirit which was already dwelling with them through him but would be actually in them after his asscencion into heaven.

Quote

Jhn 14:17  [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Quote

Finally you say: Check this post out by modem mouth early in this thread and yoiu will see how many times the three are mentioned… Click Here! Do the study 94. The Father and Yeshua and the parakletos live in us by One Spirit. One God, three persons, One Spirit. So it is written in all of the scriptural data.

I have looked at what was said in the thread to which you referred me.  I don't come up with anything different that we have already discussed.  

What you say “One God”, three persons, One Spirit doesn't make any sense.  If the Holy Spirit is a person and is the Spirit that dwells within all persons, then the Holy Spirit dwells within himself?

God dwells within us, his children, including Jesus, by His Holy Spirit, as our Father and our helper.  Jesus dwells with in us by the Word of God that is within him and within us as we learn to obey his commandments.

Quote

Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Quote

Jhn 15:5  I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing

Quote

2Jo 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

God Bless

[GeneBalthrop]

942767………Right On, Amen Brother. I see it that way also. there is One Spirit that was in Jesus and when he went to the Father that same Spirit was sent to Us. And that spirit was the mind of God, “If this mind be in you which was in Christ Jesus our lord (IT) will quicken your mortal bodies (ALSO). Just like (IT) did Jesus.

peace to you and yours…………gene

[NickHassan]

HiGB,
The spirit is the mind of God?
Is your spirit your mind?

Your spirit is the life force given you from God
Not your mind.

Neither is the Spirit the mind of God.

The Spirit helps us reach the deep things of God.

1Cor 2
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Lightenup @ June 14 2008,22:01)

I hope that explains “God is spirit” as regards to the type of body He has. I am trying to explain things to you WJ.  I am afraid that you are going to pick this apart and miss the message.  You know the term “he can't see the forest for the trees”?  I think that is how it is said anyway.  It means that one can pick at small details and miss the whole picture.  I pray that you get the whole picture here. Also, you have labeled me as a Henotheist but that is not what I would label me.  I would appreciate it if you would not label me as that.  Because you said that tells me that you do not get what I am. Sincerely, LU

Hi LU

Sorry but I suppose you will have to claim that I cant see the forest for the trees. I prefer not to look outside of the book.

There is a lot of inference in what you say and no scriptural evidence in my opinion.

You are saying God “who is Spirit” has a Spirit body! Then God and his body must be inside of Yeshua, for all the fulness of Deity is settled in him and yet he Yeshua fills all things.

IMO You have limited an infinite God to a geographical location by giving him a body. God fills all things. God sees all things. Hears all things. Knows all things. God does not live in time. God has no physical matter. He has no size. The limited things that we know about him are to simply give our finite minds a sense of who he is. God is not sitting off in some remote part of the universe and having his Holy Spirit beam back to him everything he needs to know.

Want to know a real parodox. As infinitly big as he is, he is as infinitly small. He holds together the atomic structure of all things. He is everywhere all at the same time. Yet he can be no where.

He is in a metaphysical class of his own. So to even begin to compare the “Omnipresent”, “Omniscient” “Omnipresent” God to us puny humans who live in flesh temples is definatly not seeing the forest for the trees. IMO.

Blessings! WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

Hi Brother WJ: You say: Quote If the Holy Spirit is the personal Spirit of the Father then explain this… Jn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 942767,June wrote: It is through His Holy Spirit that God reveals what is on the mind of God.  The Holy Spirit is not a living soul who speaks his own thoughts, but he is God's personal presence with us and leads us into all truths in the written Word.  All of the gospels and the epistles end with “amen” except the Acts of the Apostles which means that nothing can be added to the gospels or the epistles, and so God will lead us into all truths in what has already been written.  The Acts, however, is still open because God is still at work through his people.

94. No offence, but you are diverting the subject and the quote I gave. What does John 16:13-15 have to do with the Acts still being an open book.

Let me see if I can explain it better.

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself;

Since when does the Most High God, the Father, “not speak of himself”?

but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Since when does the Almighty God, the Father, “have to hear from someone else before he speaks”?

He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
Since when does the Almighty God, the Father, have to receive from Yeshua to show unto us so he can glorify Yeshua?

All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Since when does the Almighty God, the Father, take from Yeshua and show it unto us?
Why would the Father give it to Yeshua and then take it back?

The subject is the “Spirit of Truth”, not the Father, or Yeshua would have said the Father would be subservient to him. That is what is happening here. The Spirit is subservient to Yeshua. Do you believe that the Father is subservient to Yeshua?

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

1Cr 2:9  But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 1Cr 2:10  But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

94. Look very close at this scripture. If the Spirit spoken of here is the Father, then why does it say “the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. Does the Father search the deep things of the Father? The Greek word for search is also found here…

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered
And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. Rom 8:26,27

Does the Father pray to the Father? Does an “it” or “force” or a mere extension of God make intercession for us?

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

You say: Quote Cant be the Father… for he shall not speak of himself but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. Yes, it is God our Father who will be guiding us into all truths in the written Word.  God speaks to us by His Spirit.

Your statement doesn’t address the scripture or point that John 16:13-15 cannot be the Father.

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

And you say: Quote Cant be Yeshua… He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. No, it is definitely not Yeshua, it is the Father speaking by His Spirit.  The Father testifies regarding His Beloved Son and His Christ.  Jesus is God's heir.  God has made all things in this world and in the worlds to come by him and for him.  Jesus explains this saying, Quote 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you  He said, “ALL THINGS THAT THE FATHER HATH ARE MINE, THEREFORE SAID I…”.

THERFORE SAID I WHAT? That the Father is going to take back from Yeshua what he gave him and then give it to us? That makes no since 94!

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

You say: Quote Does the Father take from Jesus and give to us? Again Jesus is God's heir and he has chosen to share his inheritance with us.

OK! AND? Still no explanation why the Father takes back from Yeshua what he gave him and then gives it to us!

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

Next you ask: Quote Did Jesus send the Father? It is Jesus who baptizes with the Holy Ghost.  No man can come to the Father but through him.  Therefore, the Holy Spirit flows through him to the believer.  It is not like Jesus has authority over the Father, but he has prayed that God would send His Spirit as our Comforter.  I'll give you the scripture to support this below: Quote Jhn 14:16  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Well, now God our Father has answered his prayer and sends us His Spirit through His Son.

But wait. You are saying that the Holy Spirit is the Father and now you are saying that Yeshua baptizes us with the Father. Imagine that, Yeshua baptizing men with the Holy Spirit. Do you know of any mere men that can do that? As far as Yeshua praying and the Father sending the Holy Spirit to us, does the Father send himself? And how does that work with this?

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: John 15:26

Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. John 16:7

Why would Yeshua call him the “Comforter”, why wouldn’t he have said the Father who is Spirit will come to you. Did Jesus send the Father? Notice the Spirit is proceeding from the Father. If the Holy Spirit was the Father Yeshua would have said so.

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

You say: Quote There is three. Yet one Spirit. Yeshua confirms this in Matt 28:19, an unambiguous scripture clearly showing the three. No, there are two souls the Father and the Son and One Spirit, the Holy Spirit.  Notice also that the scritpure states baptizing them “in the name”  not names..  This implies unity in purpose which the salvation of God's children from the consequence of sin.   The “name” is “Jesus” which means “Jehovah is salvation”.

Where is the scripture that Matt 28:19 is “two souls”? Yeshua makes no distinction between the three. In fact the definite article is given to each. You are right about the one name though, the name above every name, Jesus.

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

You say: Quote As I have shown LU that even the verbs surrounding the pronouns in John 16:13-15 clearly shows the Holy Spirit Yeshua is speaking of as “Another”… And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, ( parakletos) , that he may abide with you for ever; John 14:16 Yes, he was speaking of another Comforter other than himself as he was going to go to the Father.  But he explains in the following scriptures that he is speaking of the Holy Spirit which was already dwelling with them through him but would be actually in them after his asscencion into heaven. Quote Jhn 14:17  [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. Quote True. But he wasn’t speaking of the Father was he? For he says he was going back to the Father. 942767,June wrote: Finally you say: Quote Check this post out by modem mouth early in this thread and you will see how many times the three are mentioned… Click Here! Do the study 94. The Father and Yeshua and the parakletos live in us by One Spirit. One God, three persons, One Spirit. So it is written in all of the scriptural data. I have looked at what was said in the thread to which you referred me.  I don't come up with anything different that we have already discussed.   What you say “One God”, three persons, One Spirit doesn't make any sense.  If the Holy Spirit is a person and is the Spirit that dwells within all persons, then the Holy Spirit dwells within himself? HUH? The Spirit dwells in all believers. But so does the Father and so does Yeshua. Yet there is only “One Spirit” I have given the scriptures. You do believe that the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son don’t you 94? 942767,June wrote: God dwells within us, his children, including Jesus, by His Holy Spirit, as our Father and our helper.  Jesus dwells with in us by the Word of God that is within him and within us as we learn to obey his commandments.

Yes, the Father and Yeshua and the Comforter dwells in us by “One Spirit”.

Quote (942767 @ June 15 2008,09:12)

Quote Rom 8:9  But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Quote Jhn 15:5  I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringe th forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing Quote 2Jo 1:9  Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. God Bless

Good scriptures. Did you notice that the Spirit of God in Rom 8:9 is also the Spirit of Christ? Paul makes no distinction between the Spirit of Jesus and the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit. Those terms are interchangeable for the One Spirit that we have all been made to drink into.

Blessings! WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

LU

BTW You said..

Quote (Lightenup @ June 14 2008,22:01)

Also, you have labeled me as a Henotheist but that is not what I would label me.  I would appreciate it if you would not label me as that.  Because you said that tells me that you do not get what I am.

OK. If this is true then I appologize.

You do believe and worship One God, yet you believe Yeshua is a God, right?

So one of these describes your theology. I realize you may not like a label. But we give ourselves labels by choosing what we believe.

Here is the definitions…

Henotheism!

(Greek εἷς θεός heis theos “one god”) is a term coined by Max Müller, to mean devotion to a single “God” while accepting the existence of other gods. Müller stated that henotheism means “monotheism in principle and polytheism in fact.”
Source

Monotheism
: the doctrine or belief that there is but one God
Source

Polytheism
: belief in or worship of more than one god
Source

I have heard you say that you agree with t8 in a lot of what he believes. while t8 doesnt like the label, he is a Henotheist.

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