Son of God and son of man

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  • #822820
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Gene,

    You say

    “the spirit is the intellect in a man”

    Sounds like a strange new teaching.

     

    #831089
     t8 
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    Yes Gene, it is strange. You don’t read that in scripture. And what exactly do you mean by intellect anyway. IQ, self consciousness, ability to reason, faculty for logic?

    #842271
     Jodi 
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    Hello All,

    Jesus the Son of Man is NOT called the Son of God because he pre-existed as a Son of God but because he was BORN of God’s Spirit on a certain day.

    Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

     WHEN was Jesus BORN after the Spirit?

    Acts 10:37 You know what has happened throughout the province of Judea, beginning in GALILEE after the baptism that John preached— 38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him. 9 “We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross,

    Luke 4:14 And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about…18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath SENT ME to heal the brokenhearted TO PREACH deliverance to the captives…

    John 3:34 For he whom God hath SENT speaketh the words of God: for God GIVETH NOT the Spirit BY MEASURE unto him.

    WHAT was said just prior to this,

    John 3: 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    The only begotten Son of God does not apply in scripture to a pre-existing Son that had been born of God and then was sent down from heaven emptying himself by becoming flesh. Jesus the Son of Man was born of God’s Spirit without measure, and HE WAS SENT out into the world to preach, HE is CALLED the only begotten Son.

    We are to believe in the NAME of the person who is called the only begotten Son of God, that NAME of this Son is Jesus, the name given to a Son of Man on EARTH. Jesus of Nazareth who in Acts 10 had been BORN of God’s Spirit upon his baptism by John.

    Acts 10:40 but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41 He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42 He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his NAME.”

    The NAME that we confess that we are saved through is Jesus of Nazareth who had been BORN of the Holy Spirit and power upon his baptism by John. 

    Acts 4: 27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed.

    Isaiah 42: 1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

    Isaiah’s word, God’s WORD became flesh, it was fulfilled in Jesus when at the river he was BORN of God, now that same powerful WORD lived in Jesus, as Jesus had been BORN of God to be SENT out and PREACH the gospel, the truth of good tidings, the promise that God had made to humans before He created the world. 

    We believe in the name of Jesus, Jesus of Nazareth who upon being anointed, BORN of God’s Spirit without measure, he was SENT out into the world, HIM being CALLED the only begotten Son of God, was witnessed by the people as being FILLED with grace and truth.

    Jesus was not persecuted until after he was BORN of the Spirit at the river Jordan, upon being SENT because of his words and deeds that he performed through the anointing Christos of the Spirit, men sought to persecute him.

    Jesus was recognized as the Christ and as the Son of God BECAUSE of the words he spoke and the signs and miracles he performed, he could only perform such by having been BORN of God’s Spirit.

    Acts 13: 22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. God testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse, a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’ 23 “From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised.

    Acts 13: 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. 34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    1 John 4: 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

    God did not PROMISE to send down a Son to dwell in flesh. He promised according to David and Isaiah that he would raise up a descendant from David and that seed of David would be the Savior of the world. God told David that his son, God would be a Father to, on a certain day he would beget him.

    WHO is the SAVIOR? He is not a pre-existing Son that God sent down from heaven, he is the descendant of David BORN of God’s Spirit without measure and then was sent out into the world where people beheld his lory being full of grace and truth, seeing him in the form of God.

    Scripture also tells us that the promise of God, God’s word was NOT that He would send a Son down to earth to be the Christ, but that Christ would be of the SEED of Abraham.

    Galatians 3: 16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.

    ALL nations we are told would be blessed through Abraham’s seed and David’s seed.

    The glory of Abraham’s seed, a human raised from the dead having been made the author of eternal salvation by being perfected through suffering, existed by God’s WORD before God made the world. This seed of Abraham God made the world through and for. Before God had created man He did so in order for man to be made in His image. The Son of Man of the seed of Abraham Born of God becoming the Christ, was raised having been perfected and he received eternal life, as God is eternal so Jesus was made eternal, unable to die or be tempted to sin. 

    Jesus died in faith of receiving this glory that God had promised before He created the world, eternal life. GOD DECLARED the New Beginning BEFORE he brought forth heaven and earth, God’s word is TRUE so true we are told it is as if it already exists, we are to believe in God’s word, that before it springs forth we consider it as existing. In God’s word in the beginning Jesus the Son of Man, is head over all, he is before all, in HIM all things consist, the human made perfect that by that perfection became the author of eternal salvation, bringing forth LIGHT and LIFE that will never touch darkness, king of kings and lord of lords. This author of eternal salvation, HIS NAME Jesus of Nazareth is above every name, not because he pre-existed but because of what God accomplished through His Spirit in him a Son of Man.

    This Son of Man a Son of God is returning to earth as the same as when he ascended to heaven.

    Acts 1: 11 “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This SAME Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven.”

    The SAME Jesus will come back in the SAME way in which he left.

    Acts 2: 30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, he would RAISE UP CHRIST to sit on his throne;

    Revelation 22: 16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

    Matthew 24: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    This Son of Man is the Son of God according to the Holy Spirit, not because he pre-existed, because he is the offspring of David who God said he would be a Father to.

    Romans 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God, 2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,) 3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; 4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: 5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

    We are told directly and clearly God had made a promise, HE GAVE HIS WORD, that He would take David’s son who is of human flesh and anoint him with the Holy Spirit and ACCORDING to that, JESUS is the Son of God. God had promised in the book of Psalms to David that his son God would made HIM into His firstborn Son. We believe in the NAME of the ONLY mortal who had been begotten by God who God raised from the dead and became the firstborn of many brethren into eternal life.

    The Son of Man who is a Son of God according to the Holy Spirit by the resurrection from the dead, HE is BEFORE ALL things IN HIM ALL things consist to the glory of the Father who had created all things through him and for him. 

     

    #842285
     t8 
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    1. We are told directly and clearly God had made a promise, HE GAVE HIS WORD, that He would take David’s son who is of human flesh and anoint him with the Holy Spirit and ACCORDING to that, JESUS is the Son of God. God had promised in the book of Psalms to David that his son God would made HIM into His firstborn Son. We believe in the NAME of the ONLY mortal who had been begotten by God

    There is a lot of human reasoning and applying one’s own understanding thereby altering what is written. This is what we know:

    1. God through the Word brought the cosmos into existence. This Word was with God in the beginning.
    2. God through the Son of God brought all things into existence. God sent his son into the world.
    3. God redeems his creation through this same son of God.
    4. He emptied himself, came in the flesh, humbled himself, learned obedience, and died for humanity’s sin.
    5. He is now back in the glory that he had with God before the cosmos.
    6. When he returns he comes with the name ‘The Word of God’ .
    7. He partook of human nature so we could partake of divine nature. He took a body like ours so we can have a glorified body like his.

    These points are written and you cannot draw out a Jesus who was merely a creation like us who had the best CV for the job as son of God, Christ, and Lord. We need to be very careful that we do not end up preaching a Jesus who was not born the Christ and Lord as is clearly written about upon the declaration of a holy angel sent by God.

    We cannot dictate truth via our own understanding. Truth is not derived by us as the standard and cherry picking scriptures and scaffolding them with beliefs we hold. No, we should be confident enough to merely quote the scriptures and agree with them as they are. And when people oppose you for merely quoting scripture, you know that they are wrong.

    #842289
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    You make a few assumptions of your own.

    You assume the Word always was the Son of God.

    You assume Jesus is the Word that was with God in the beginning

    You assume the sending of the Son into the world proves he existed before birth.

     

    There is only thin and unspiritual evidence for these assumptions.

     

     

    #842292
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Be careful that we do not preach that this man was not born anointed?

    Nonsense.

    #842293
     t8 
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    What about John the Baptist? Is he greater than Jesus?

    #842294
     t8 
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    You assume the Word always was the Son of God.

    Wrong again Nick. I simply outline each truth and they show the possibilities and may I quietly remind you that the text ot these precepts seriously challenge your own understanding. And when I quote these scriptures, you get defensive, a very worrying sign indeed. I’ve observed such behaviour with cult leaders and the especially like saying they have the spirit accuse and condemn all others. This is not how a son of God should or would behave.

    #842295
     t8 
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    When we are born from above we will love because God is love. A man who loves not cannot be of God because God is love. Love is a huge sign indicating the Spirit of God because those that belong to God, love.

    #842296
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    John was born anointed as scripture tells us he was.

    It is not a measure of greatness.

    Find it written.

    #842297
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Do you recognise those who love and are you among them?

    #842298
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Do you worry about others when you should worry about your situation?

    #842300
     t8 
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    It’s not up to me to say that about myself. I am certainly conscious about how important love is and can certainly detect it and notice those who lack love and constantly judge others harshly, even all others except themselves. I strive to embrace what God desires for each of us, but it is up to God who will determine what kind of job I have done, that being works of gold to a house of straw. Of course I desire the former.

    #842301
     t8 
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    So John the Baptist was born with the Spirit of God, but Jesus of Nazareth wasn’t. So this too is part of your teaching. I will comment about that in future posts.

    #842302
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Well done.

    Scripture is the source.

    Do you rely on logic and inference instead?

    #842303
     NickHassan 
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    Hi t8,

    Should we be grateful for your fatherly concern?

    No you should rather watch yourself and watch your teaching.

     

    We have a Father.

    #842304
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    Lk 1.15

    For he will be great in the sight of the Lord, and he will drink no wine or liquor;

    and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother’s womb.

     

    Scripture says this about John but not about Jesus.

    #842305
     t8 
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    Yes that was my point. Your doctrine has John as greater than Jesus, but even John disagrees with you as he considered himself not worthy to tie Jesus shoelaces.

    #842306
     GeneBalthrop 
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    T8…you tell us ,  YOU BELIEVE SCRIPTURE, AS IT IS WRITTEN, tell us then,  do you believe the scriptures below as written?

    Act 13: 22-23….And when he had removed him (Saul) , he (God) raised up unto them David to be their King; to whom also he gave testimony,  and said,  I have found David the son of Jesse a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will.

    23 ..Of “THIS MANS SEED”  has God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Savior, Jesus.

    REV 22:16….I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I AM THE ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID, and the bright and morning star.

    YES OR NO please.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

     

    #842307
     NickHassan 
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    Hi T8,

    You may  feel clever to make scripture argue with scripture but it is not wise.

    Listen to the Spirit.

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