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Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2008,16:20) Hi MK,
Was Jesus, the good shepherd, searching for his sheep
or those goats?
God is not a respecter of persons – just like the jews thought that they were priviledged and chosen and the gentiles were to be sent to hell, and 70AD was their judgement, so now some christians think that they are the priviledged ones and all others are to be sent to hell – all are sinners, all need salvation.If you see the it is the nations that are gathered before Jesus and the sheep nations that were kind will be given the kingdom – the goat nations who did not help people will be brought down and destroyed.
It does not say that all people of of all races, will be gathered – just the nations.
Hi MK,
All will be raised unto judgement, except those already raised who have passed from death to life. [jn5]Sheep are specified in scripture and we can only put on sheeps clothing if we are yet wolves.
Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 23 2008,14:16) Quote (942767 @ Dec. 23 2008,15:39) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2008,13:08) Hi 94,
Sure.
The challenge of Satan to God was that Job would curse God if not continually blessed.The accuser of the brethren is still allowed to sift the sons of God like wheat that they may become stronger, just as he was given permission to with Peter.
In the OT
Zech3
1And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.2And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?
3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
4And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
5And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
All things work together for good for those that love God and live according to His purposes.
Hi Nick:And what did the Lord tell the Apostle Peter:
Quote Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as wheat:
Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.And the Apostle Peter stated:
Quote 1Pe 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: We, as born again Christians, know that the serpent is in the garden, and we should not be ignorant of his devices. God has given us His Word to deliver us from the evil one.
God Bless
Fortunately Jesus said that he would leave the 99 righteous believers who have made the right decision and will go and search for the poor sinner who does need saving, who is blinded by Satan, and will search until he finds him ………. God is the greatest
Hi MK:Quote Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mar 2:17 When Jesus heard [it], he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Luk 5:32 I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.God is the greatest, and He will do every thing that He possibly can to lead a person to repentance, but we do have a choice.
Hmk,
Sheep have come to the shepherd entered through the door.
Jn10
John 10
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Luke 15:4
“Suppose one of you has a hundred sheep and loses one of them. Does he not leave the ninety-nine in the open country and go after the lost sheep until he finds it?His sheep should not wander off from the truth.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2008,13:44) Hi 94,
Yes.
Satan set up the circumstances whereby Peter would have to face the fear of being captured and killed.
He gave in to fear and denied his Master.We are urged to pray against being subjected to such hard testing.
Mt6
13'And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
Hi Nick:Quote 1Cr 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it]. Quote (meerkat @ Dec. 23 2008,14:30) Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 23 2008,16:20) Hi MK,
Was Jesus, the good shepherd, searching for his sheep
or those goats?
God is not a respecter of persons – just like the jews thought that they were priviledged and chosen and the gentiles were to be sent to hell, and 70AD was their judgement, so now some christians think that they are the priviledged ones and all others are to be sent to hell – all are sinners, all need salvation.If you see the it is the nations that are gathered before Jesus and the sheep nations that were kind will be given the kingdom – the goat nations who did not help people will be brought down and destroyed.
It does not say that all people of of all races, will be gathered – just the nations.
Hi MK,
We are urged to enter the millenial rest of God.
Heb4
4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
But that does not preclude salvation by the mercy of God according to works of Mt25. But we do not want to one of them as they were surprised to be saved and we should have assurance in our hearts.
Eph1
12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 23 2008,14:10) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2008,17:52) Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 23 2008,12:38) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Dec. 22 2008,16:22) Hi Jodi Quote (Jodi @ Dec. 23 2008,10:52) Fallen angels is a myth, the bible does not even contain those two words together 'fallen angel'. The adversary in Job was not an adversary to God, he was in God's presence, where only the righteous can be.
The myth is that you believe God cannot be everywhere at the same time, therefore sinners are in his presence, for he is everywhere.Can a sinner talk to God and experience God's presence?
I say yes. But apparantly you do not believe God is that big.
WJ
Hi WJ,The sons of God and the adversary went to present themselves to the Lord, I will admit that to 'present yourself before the Lord' does not have to specifically mean that they were in the direct presence of God in heaven. But what I do want to stress is the fact that the popular non biblical story suggest that an immortal angel sinned in heaven and lost his place. I argue that immortality is not something that is lost but is received upon being made righteous. Those in God's presence who dwell in heaven do not loose their place, if that were so what then do we make of our kingdom to come? Will it not be good enough for us? Could people living in the heaven that is to come on earth, turn from their righteousness?
Once again, did not Job believe his afflictions came from God? Does not God give His powers and authority to His angels and TRUST that they will do right by Him. Did the adversary in Job fail God, or did he do as God said?
WJ, you said, “Can a sinner talk to God and experience God's presence?
I say yes. But apparantly you do not believe God is that big.”
Let's make a comparison as to how it feels when a person prays to God and feels a certain comfort coming over them through experiencing a spiritual presence of Him in their lives, very wonderful indeed, however I do not believe that this can even begin to compare to when we feel God's presence when Jesus establishes His kingdom on earth. Lets take it even a step further shall we, when Jesus gives the kingdom over to God and He comes down to actually dwell with us in His presence, that will indeed be glorious and awesome.
You seemed to have ignored these scriptures,
Ps 118:20 –This is the gate to Jehovah, The righteous enter into it.
Ps 140:13 -Only — the righteous give thanks to Thy name, The upright do dwell with Thy presence!
Ps 89:14 – Righteousness and judgment [Are] the fixed place of Thy throne, Kindness and truth go before Thy face.
Isa 63:15 Look attentively from the heavens, And see from Thy holy and beauteous habitation, Where [is] Thy zeal and Thy might? The multitude of Thy bowels and Thy mercies Towards me have refrained themselves.
Your point was really besides mine, it was nothing but a cheap untrue jab at me and my understanding. Real nice!
Hi JodiQuote (Jodi @ Dec. 23 2008,12:38) Your point was really besides mine, it was nothing but a cheap untrue jab at me and my understanding. Real nice!
Not at all. The point is that God can be approached by a sinner and in Job's case satan the adversary did just that.You continue insisting that no evil can come in God's presence and post a couple of scriptures speaking of the saints “dwelling in his presence” yet you are denying that Jesus said he saw satan fall from heaven and other scriptures that their was war in heaven. Is it possible that you have not realized there is more than one heavenly realm?
Of course you would not see it that way because it may disolve your theory that God cannot have a sinner or fallen being in his presence.
Tell me Jodi, at the great white throne judgment will the sinners stand before him or not?
I can't wait to hear how you explain this one away.
WJ
WJ,You need to understand that 'heaven' is sometimes used as a symbolic term representing a High position.
Revelation is speaking in symbols, the dragon represents kings/kingdoms and these kings/kingdoms and their messengers will fall from their position. Their position and their pride will fall.
Men who follow the ways of the flesh and not the ways of God, must be brought down.
Isa 2:11 The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:17 The arrogance of man will be brought low and the pride of men humbled; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day,
Jer 49:16 The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks, who occupy the heights of the hill. Though you build your nest as high as the eagle's, from there I will bring you down,” declares the Lord.
Ob 1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks and make your home on the heights, you who say to yourself, 'Who can bring me down to the ground?'
Job 20:4 “Surely you know how it has been from of old, ever since man was placed on the earth, 5 that the mirth of the wicked is brief, the joy of the godless lasts but a moment. 6 Though his pride reaches to the heavens and his head touches the clouds, 7 he will perish forever, like his own dung; those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?'
Isaiah 14:13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;
14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'
14:15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.
14:16 “Those who see you will gaze at you, And consider you, saying: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,
Hi:I agree with Jodi on this. God did not cast anyone out of literal heaven to earth. Is there not enough trouble here already?
Jodi…… you and meerkat, have explained it right There is (NO) SATAN (BEING) going around Controlling People and causing all ths Evil in the earth, Man himself is EVIL as Jesus Said. ” YOU BIING EVIL” that means thats the state of a mans (BEING) or EXISTENCE is EVIL. WJ thinks that there was some kind of Bet between GOD and Satan over Job, nothing could be further from the truth, first of all, it was not Satan that even brought the name of JOB in the first place, secondly in the end of the book is Say that GOD took away all the evil (HE) brought on Job. God uses GOOD and EVIL, to serve His purposes. Man is the roaring lion going around looking for who he may devour. Not some seperate pagan ideology of another false being invisible jumping in and out of people, as Nick and WJ think.
Another good point you brought out was the word HEAVENS< meaning HIGH PLACE and that can also be in the mind and when it say GOD rules in the Heavens it is in the minds of People.
The word SATAN, DEVILS ,DEMONS, ARE (ADJECTIVES) describing EVIL , which is an ADVERSARY OF GOOD , they are opposite forces. They are opposite Spirit intellects or thought,(FORCES) Which is everywhere in the earth. The Evil Spirit in men drive them to do Evil. The good Spirit in men cause them to do GOOD. Its just that simple . Man kind doesn't need any outside forces to cause him to do evil He exists in a state of evil and will remain that way unless God changes Him. IMO.
love and peace to you and your………………gene
Hi:
This is Satan:
Quote Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 942767……….Yes that is Adversarial spirit and it is in every man on this earth and men are the rulers of the darkness of this world, And we do wrestle against them we all do , because the World is Evil and is ruled by evil men in hight places. It's not their flesh and blood we are wrestling against it's what is in there minds the EVIL in them that causes them to rule that way. It's Spiritual warfare we are fighting against. Not A FLESH AND BLOOD. Or do you think Spiritual Wickedness can't be in a person who has flesh and blood. Its in all Flesh and blood humans.
Trying to make it appear as if the EVIL is separate from a men is not scriptural at all. there are no devils and demons going around jumping in and out of people as Pagan ideologies have established and infected the Church with these false teachings. There are only two things functioning on the earth (GOOD AND EVIL) both were created by (ONE) GOD Both come from (ONE TREE) , No where does it say that good and evil comes from anywhere else but from that ONE TREE. God even forbid Israel from even dabbling into these pagan idolatries of Demons and Devils and the like. But fallen Christianity is totally emerged in it. IMO
peace to you and yours……………gene
Nick………its every where Just turn on your tV, or pick up a local paper, or go read a novel, or go to a movie show, or turn on you car radio , the Evil is everywhere. open up you eyes , What do you think it means that the adversary is the prince of the power of the air. And who said it “FREE” thats you words not mine.
peace………….gene
Nick……first of all it's confusions not organized at all it's blind leading blind. The only thing pushing it is evil thoughts in the mind of man there doesn't have to be a central controlling Being at all. Just evil spirit (intellect) in the hearts of men, received from the world as John said. All EVIL KNOWLEDGE and GOOD KNOWLEDGE come from (ONE) and the (SAME) TREE. That tree was created by GOD , NOT NO DEVIL PERSON. And man Himself ate (took to himself) of it , in order to gain WISDOM and BE LIKE GOD . Just as it says, “Look man has become like us (KNOWING) GOOD and EVIL. In other words man became involved in (EXPERIENCING) good and evil, The word Knowing is not Just a second hand knowledge as when someone tell you something , but a first hand experienced knowledge.
love and peace to you and yours…………..gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Dec. 22 2008,23:13) GB,
Yes
Under the control of that prince and well organised.
Hi Nick,So you seriously believe that it takes a supernatural being for man to create evil ways to follow his flesh?
The devil is the intellect of the mind that devices ways to serve the flesh. This mind creates such things as perverted jokes, pornographic pictures, misconceptions about woman etc…which thus go out into the world infecting others and thus working as evil spirits.
It is nonsense and unscriptural to think that the devil is something outside of this world, coming from non earthly intelligent creatures.
The evil ways of this world are Earthly, OF THIS WORLD, and are specifically said by Jesus to come from within man. You and everyone else hold onto superstitious ignorance and are utterly blind to the reality of the life around you and the WORKINGS OF MAN, that come from man, as the scriptures clearly indicate.
As Genes says, the problem revolves around your misconceptions behind the word spirit.
You and others like Irene want to insist that some creature outside our earth comes in with evil ideas and we thus become evil when we follow these ideas.
This is NOT what the scriptures tell us. Evil comes out of man by following after our own lusts, we invent the evil ways. Man's neocortex creates ways to serve its flesh, some celestial being doesn't put those ideas into our heads. A person is made righteous by God working over our mind to draw us away from allowing our mind to serve our flesh, not working over our mind to stop the influence of celestial beings.
Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful;
The slanderer, our adversary, the spirit that is at work in men is the intellect that serves the flesh.
Notice ALL the above come FROM man and that man is the INVENTOR of evil, and we follow each other. There IS nothing that says a supernatural being invents evil and then we choose to follow it.
Why do youngsters want to drink and party, think it's cool to be promiscuous, because of the evil spirits that enter their mind through the WORLD of MAN that man has created through inventing evil ways to follow his flesh. These evil spirits are the negative words and pictures that enter into their neocortex and thus create in them the ideas to sin and follow after their flesh.
Judas lived in a man's world of greed, we do as well today, we hear and see things that are all about acquiring. A spirit of greed rules over our world, and works to influence man. This spirit results from man selfishly following after his own lust, it is an adversarial spirit, and it entered Judas and he followed it to serve his own flesh.
Romans clearly states that it was God giving man over to THEIR OWN debased mind to do the things that are not fitting, and that it is MAN HIMSELF THAT INVENTS EVIL.
God DID NOT give us over to celestial being influences. The debased mind clearly is the devil, the SLANDERER, OUR ADVERSARY!
Ephesians 2:2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
The spirit at work are from the devices of man, coming from his evil intellect. No where is the spirit in Ephesians or Romans likened to a creature outside of our creation on earth.
Hi Jodi,
Do you believe scripture?
Then where is scripture is intellect mentioned?
Let's start from what is written in scripture if you do believe it.Hi Jodi,
You have expressed your serious reservations about scripture here before.
However this is a scripture study site and we do not engage in worldly debate from man's intellect.It is one man's opinion against another which is useless.
Jodi……..Amen sister, Nick doesn't understand (INTELLECT) is whats in the MIND. It is what guides the MIND. the word comes from (INTELLIGENCE) and INTELLIGENCE is what guides or thinking. He need to spend some time studying what that word really means then maybe he would better understand what were saying. False religion has really confused people to believe in all kind of (MYSTERY) teachings Like doctrines about demons which we were told would exist and they do in nearly all churches to day.
love and peace to you and yours Jodi……………………..gene
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