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Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,01:49) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 18 2008,03:31) All Scriptures I found that has Satan in it.
1 Ch.21:1
Job 1:6
Math. 4:10, 16:23,
Mark 1:23
Luke 10:18, 22:31
Acts 5:3
1 Cor. 5:5
2 Cor. 11:14
2 Thes. 2:9
Rev. 2″9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7
Irene
Good morning Irene,Since the word satan is directly referred to in the bible as man and also God's messengers, where do you see in the bible that it became known to be a proper name for ONE particular being?
Job 1:6 alone shows a being. For who were the Sons of God in the old Testament. They were the Angels. It says Satan was among them. The presented themself before the LORD. No Humans there. The whole of Math. chapter 4 tells of Jesus being tempted by the Devil. Satan is called Devil also, because later in verse 10 he is called Satan. Then the devil left Jesus after he tempted Jesus. No humans there either. Even tho I believe also that Human can be demon possessed. 1/3 of the Angels went with Lucifer when he fell from heaven. These are called demons. And if you have never experienced demons you are lucky.Irene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Sep. 17 2008,15:21) Hi Jodi,
Yes you have worked hard to justify every alternative interpretation but the simple one.
By the way I forgot to say that Jb 1-2 shows Satan also can influence the weather.
Of Course this adversary can influence the weather, he is an angel under God's powers.Did not Job attribute his affliction to God?
All throughout the Old Testament God warns the people of false gods. We are specifically told that only God can bring forth blessing and cursing.
Isaiah 45:6-7 “That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting that there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I the Lord do all these things.”
The belief in and fear of an evil supernatural being that has the SAME powers as YHWH is incredibly wrong, and goes against a huge foundation of truth established in the Old Testament.
Not one time in the Old Testament when the bible warns against believing in other beings who can bless and curse, IS THERE AN EXCEPTION MADE.
Deut 30: 19,” ….I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing;”
Jeremiah 14:20 We acknowledge, O Lord, our wickedness And the iniquity of our fathers, For we have sinned against You. 21 Do not abhor us, for Your name's sake; Do not disgrace the throne of Your glory. Remember, do not break Your covenant with us. 22 Are there any among the idols of the nations that can cause rain? Or can the heavens give showers? Are You not He, O Lord our God? Therefore we will wait for You, Since You have made all these.
ONLY YHWH has powers over the weather.
People, don't you realize that a false god is anything you give YHWH's powers to?
Jeremiah 10:1 Hear the word which the Lord speaks to you, O house of Israel. 2 Thus says the Lord: “Do not learn the way of the Gentiles; Do not be dismayed at the signs of heaven, For the Gentiles are dismayed at them. 3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. 5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.” 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You. 8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. 9 Silver is beaten into plates; It is brought from Tarshish, And gold from Uphaz, The work of the craftsman And of the hands of the metalsmith; Blue and purple are their clothing; They are all the work of skillful men. 10 But the Lord is the true God; He is the living God and the everlasting King. At His wrath the earth will tremble, And the nations will not be able to endure His indignation. 11 Thus you shall say to them: “The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under these heavens.” 12 He has made the earth by His power, He has established the world by His wisdom, And has stretched out the heavens at His discretion. 13 When He utters His voice, There is a multitude of waters in the heavens: “And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth. He makes lightning for the rain, He brings the wind out of His treasuries.” 14 Everyone is dull-hearted, without knowledge; Every metalsmith is put to shame by an image; For his molded image is falsehood, And there is no breath in them. 15 They are futile, a work of errors; In the time of their punishment they shall perish. 16 The Portion of Jacob is not like them, For He is the Maker of all things, And Israel is the tribe of His inheritance; The Lord of hosts is His name.
Why is a molded image falsehood?
Because people believed that there were OTHER BEINGS other then God who had powers to bless AND CURSE people.
People I really don't think that it gets any clearer here. This simply cannot be misunderstood, there is NO other supernatural being able to inflict you other then YHWH.
This truth tells us then that those inflicted with evil spirits, that those evil spirits of which Jesus cast out, had to have come from YHWH.
If these scriptures DON”T CAUSE you to RETHINK your understanding, then I really don't know what will.
One thing is for sure, you have your answers all ready and all you do is paste it here, there is no way anybody can type all that up in a second. So whatever you want to believe you will no matter what anybody else puts here.
IreneQuote (Tiffany @ Sep. 18 2008,07:57) Quote (Jodi @ Sep. 19 2008,01:49) Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 18 2008,03:31) All Scriptures I found that has Satan in it.
1 Ch.21:1
Job 1:6
Math. 4:10, 16:23,
Mark 1:23
Luke 10:18, 22:31
Acts 5:3
1 Cor. 5:5
2 Cor. 11:14
2 Thes. 2:9
Rev. 2″9, 2:13, 2:24, 12:9, 20:7
Irene
Good morning Irene,Since the word satan is directly referred to in the bible as man and also God's messengers, where do you see in the bible that it became known to be a proper name for ONE particular being?
Job 1:6 alone shows a being. For who were the Sons of God in the old Testament. They were the Angels. It says Satan was among them. The presented themself before the LORD. No Humans there. The whole of Math. chapter 4 tells of Jesus being tempted by the Devil. Satan is called Devil also, because later in verse 10 he is called Satan. Then the devil left Jesus after he tempted Jesus. No humans there either. Even tho I believe also that Human can be demon possessed. 1/3 of the Angels went with Lucifer when he fell from heaven. These are called demons. And if you have never experienced demons you are lucky.Irene
Hi Irene,Satan in the book of Job is an angel of God.
He is in God's presence, he is conversing with God and they are in agreement with one another on inflicting Job.
As well, if you will take from my very last post, scripture directly tells us that only God and His Spirit have the powers to inflict people, therefore Satan in Job would then have to be OF God to be using God's powers.
Irene…..even at the end of job, it say that God brought all these thing on Job, God takes full responsibility for it all.
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 18 2008,08:06) One thing is for sure, you have your answers all ready and all you do is paste it here, there is no way anybody can type all that up in a second. So whatever you want to believe you will no matter what anybody else puts here.
Irene
Irene, that post was in response to Nick. I gave it not even seeing yours, and I had started working on it at around 6:45 this morning.Sorry to say but what your thinking is incorrect, and you could have known that from my post, for I quoted Nick.
Cannot the same thing be said to yourself Irene, 'no matter what anyone else puts here your still going to believe what you believe?'
Actually, your accusation does not apply to me. Other people have helped lead me to a different understanding. DK asked me to read Job again not that long ago so I did, and guess what…. upon reading it again and giving light to what people have been saying and investigating other scriptures and keeping those in mind while contemplating Job, I DID CHANGE my understanding, of course it wasn't in DK's view, but it certainly DID CHANGE.
Quote (Tiffany @ Sep. 18 2008,17:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 18 2008,15:38) Tiffany….if you look real close at the text you will see Lucifer was a man. The word Lucifer means rising star, and it describes the king of Babylon not some invisible creature of some king. We today use that same saying when describing some one on the way up as a rising star. it is just a metaphor describing the king of Babylon and heaven is just his high place he thought he was in, his exalted self. God cut down the king of Babylon and He did weaken the nations of the known world at that time. Notice in verse 16..> and those who see you will gaze at you and consider you saying is this the(MAN) who made the earth Trimble Who shook Kingdoms. The biggest lie it to believe in devils and Satan beings who are not simple men with and adversarial spirit in them. IMO peace to you and yours……………Tiffany
Look at the Scriptire in Luke, to me Satan is a real being who fell from Heaven. And how could Satan test Jesus. Look what was said then. Satan is the God of this world and He was going to offer it to Jesus if Jesus would bow down to Him. I have to find that Scripture for you. I have 16 different Scriptures taking about Satan.
Tell you what I will make a study tomorrow or today later since it is already past midnight.
Irene
Taffany……Jesus said you are gods and are not men ruleing this word, and are they no adversaries to GOD , the carnal mind is not subject to God's laws neither can be. so if they are not subject to God laws then they must be adversarial to them. Now what does the word Satan mean (ADVERSARY). That is the state of CARNAL MAN> Peter before his conversion was a SATAN as well as ALL the Pharisees to were SATAN or DEVILS. Just as Jesus called them. imopeace ……….gene
Jodi Sorry I did not see that. But in any case in my KJ Bible it says Satan in Math. 4:10 and devil in verse 1. You say that you changed your mind. How? You know we are in the end times and Satan is very busy, because he knows he only has a few tears left, till he will be chained up. Only the truth will be taught by Jesus and the saints. That I get out of Rev.IMO
IreneQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2008,03:36) Irene…..even at the end of job, it say that God brought all these thing on Job, God takes full responsibility for it all.
Yes, God allowes it. I also believe that we are being tested here on earth. Since Satan is the God of this world, he has deceived many. That is why unless we have God's Holy Spirit we could not understand the things of God.
IreneTo All………Jesus was a MAN who was born exactly as all Men are born and Had A CARNAL MIND or Human Nature in HIM too. This Nature is against GOD it is a adversarial nature, He had to overcome it, and with the power of GOD He did. His battle began in earnest after he was baptized and the spirit lead him into the wilderness to be (TESTED) This test had to happen because it was of parmount importance He mastered His Human Nature, It was the Spirit of an adversary that was working in Him that He had to master and this spirit (intellect) caused Him to envision the things spoken of there, and He mastered them by the (WORD) of GOD. It was not some external being He was dealing with but His own Nature , he was to master and put to death.
We have to begin to see things in a spiritual sense and not look at everything in only a literal sense. The war we are in is not a physical one, but a Spiritual war. Jesus said the (words) i am telling you (are Spirit) and life. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in hight places. Those high places are Men who are Following their greedy Hearts lead by the Spirit of COVERTNESS in positions of power and authority in high places, not some devil or SATAN person who is over them and causing them to obey him. But man himself who is under the sway of sin that is in him causes wickedness to flourish in the earth.
Peace ………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2008,04:31) To All………Jesus was a MAN who was born exactly as all Men are born and Had A CARNAL MIND or Human Nature in HIM too. This Nature is against GOD it is a adversarial nature, He had to overcome it, and with the power of GOD He did. His battle began in earnest after he was baptized and the spirit lead him into the wilderness to be (TESTED) This test had to happen because it was of parmount importance He mastered His Human Nature, It was the Spirit of an adversary that was working in Him that He had to master and this spirit (intellect) caused Him to envision the things spoken of there, and He mastered them by the (WORD) of GOD. It was not some external being He was dealing with but His own Nature , he was to master and put to death. We have to begin to see things in a spiritual sense and not look at everything in only a literal sense. The war we are in is not a physical one, but a Spiritual war. Jesus said the (words) i am telling you (are Spirit) and life. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in hight places. Those high places are Men who are Following their greedy Hearts lead by the Spirit of COVERTNESS in positions of power and authority in high places, not some devil or SATAN person who is over them and causing them to obey him. But man himself who is under the sway of sin that is in him causes wickedness to flourish in the earth.
Peace ………..gene
Gen Jesus did not have a carnal mind, He had Gods Spirit full strength. He was taught by the Father before He became a Men John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God and the Word was with God.
And the word became flesh.
Col. 1:15 Jesus is the firstborn of all creation.
Rev. 3:14 .. .. These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the beginning of the creation of God.
John 17:5 ” And now, O Father glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was”.
IreneGB,
You say
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against spiritual wickedness in hight places. Those high places are Men who are Following their greedy Hearts lead by the Spirit of COVERTNESS in positions of power and authority in high places, not some devil or SATAN person who is over them and causing them to obey him. But man himself who is under the sway of sin that is in him causes wickedness to flourish in the earth. “So we do not wrestle against MEN who are flesh and blood but against a universal powerful SPIRIT OF COVERTNESS within men?
Hi GB
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Sep. 19 2008,04:31)
To All………Jesus was a MAN who was born exactly as all Men are born and Had A CARNAL MIND or Human Nature in HIM too. This Nature is against GOD it is a adversarial nature, He had to overcome it, and with the power of GOD He did.
So Jesus who was born sinless had a fallen, Adamic nature, a sinful nature?
Where is the scripture for that?
But what we do have is this…
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. Luke 1:35
You and Jodi would say Yeshua had a sinful nature. Scriptures say he was born Holy.
Since we know that he did not sin…
For he hath made him to be sin for us, “who knew no sin”; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor 5:21
then we know that to say that Yeshua had a carnal mind that cannot please God is to lie against scripture!
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me. Jn 14:30
Here we see the “Prince of this World” “comes” to Jesus and “hath nothing” in him.
So to say that the Prince (or carnal mind as GB and Jodi says) was in him is also a lie against scripture!
Now listen real close to Yeshua’s words….
And “the tempter came and said to Him“, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” But he answered and said“, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
“the tempter came and said to Him“….. “ But he answered and said“
To say that the “devil was in” Yeshua and that he was “speaking to himself or his carnal nature” is a lie against scripture!
Jesus did not have a sickness, or evil spirit, or carnal intellect, or carnal Adamic nature as GB and Jodi proposes.
The special pleading and multiple inferences do not change the clear and simple truth that satan is a real sentient being as Jodi has already acknowledged concerning the book of Job.
If the satan that brought the fire out of heaven and the tornado or hurricane that destroyed all Job had, then brought the boils on Job and made him sick, then this same satan is the one Yeshua saw cast out of heaven to the earth. He has come down having great wrath for he knows that his time is short.
An intellect or sickness or madness does not have great wrath knowing its time is short. This shows that satan has a mind and a will.
To say satan is not a sentient being that was cast out of heaven with 1/3 of the angels is a lie against scriptures.
Satan is also known to appear as an angel of light, and all of the special pleading and inference to explain away simple truth is proof of that.
The decepto meter is really high!
WJ
Ro 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
Ephesians 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace,
Hebrews 2:17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people. 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.
James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Jesus had his own desires, was he not a human being with flesh and blood, did he not feel pain and suffering?
To follow Christ means to follow in the footsteps of a MAN who overcame his weak flesh and did not obey it in it's lusts, but rather he followed the Spirit of God and overcame, destroying the enmity.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,* who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
If you are a human being then that means by your very nature your mind draws you to serve your flesh. With God's Spirit working in you however you can cut off your weak flesh and not obey it. This is what Jesus Christ accomplished he did not obey his flesh, but he obeyed the Spirit of God.
Romans 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
The potential for Christ to be carnally minded was there because he, like the rest of us, had weak flesh. He did not obey the carnal mind however, he put the carnal mind to death.
Isaiah 14:12 How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations. 13 And thou saidst in thy heart: the heavens I go up, Above stars of God I raise my throne, And I sit in the mount of meeting in the sides of the north. 14 I go up above the heights of a thick cloud, I am like to the Most High. 15 Only — unto Sheol thou art brought down, Unto the sides of the pit. 16 Thy beholders look to thee, to thee they attend, Is this the man causing the earth to tremble, Shaking kingdoms?
Revelation 12:9 and the great dragon was cast forth — the old serpent, who is called `Devil,' and `the Adversary,' who is leading astray the whole world — he was cast forth to the earth, and his messengers were cast forth with him.
WJ you have a serious problem, because the dragon is specifically said to be kings. I DON'T NEED ANY SPECIAL PLEADING AND INFERENCE, that is what the scriptures say. What they do not say is that the dragon is a jealous angel wanting to be a god, who influenced a whole bunch of angels to follow him. That is ludicrous because it destroys God's reputation in more ways then one. The bible clearly speaks of Kings dwelling in heaven and God bringing them down to earth. If you don't understand what that means, then I can see why it is you're such a puppet to the traditions of man.
WJ, do you know anything about the history of wars and what happens when a leader and his army know that they are going to be defeated?? Yes, some just give up and plead for mercy, many others however, go down fighting until the bitter end.
Who is the one being deceptive?
Who is the one trying to plead that false gods do exist?
The Old Testament is CLEAR, there is no other supernatural being in existence that has His powers.
The bible says that YHWH is the ONLY supernatural being who can bring darkness, calamity, pain, suffering, and indignation.
Hi Jodi,
Even poor old David was under his influence too.
1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.Hi Jodi,
Have you read Zechariah?
Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
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