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Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
I think we need more discussion of Ephesians 6. I believe people are pulling verse 12 out of context, disregarding not only the surrounding scriptures, but a huge part of the NT as well, simply to fit their doctrine.
Verse 12, as I have mentioned before, seems kind of odd given all these scriptures. That show we do indeed struggle against flesh.
Ro 6:19 I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
Ro 7:5 For while we were in the flesh, the sinful passions, which were aroused by the Law, were at work in the members of our body to bear fruit for death.
Ro 7:14 For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
Ro 7:18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
Ro 8:7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,
Ro 8:8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Ro 8:9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” F18 15 But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another! 16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, F19 fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, F20 drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
So what exactly are we being told in Ephesians 6? Is it telling us that above our flesh we need to fight against the struggle of manipulating fallen angels?
Ephesians 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. 13 Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14 Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness,
NOWHERE in the bible is the devil said to BE a fallen angel.
Devil represents a slanderer, a liar. We are being told in verse 14 to gird our waist with TRUTH. Where it is easy for man to see his weak flesh and know he needs God to help him practice self control, it is much harder for man to recognize lies and deceit which we need to put on the whole armor of God to keep ourselves from.
15 and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16 above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
With the study of scripture and keeping to God's word man can shield himself against the 'wicked one', against the devil, against the lies and false doctrine of man. Some slanderers want to distort God's truth while other's want to suppress it. Early Christians had to fight not only against false doctrine, but also against persecution by both the Jews and the Romans.
Revelation 2:9 “I know your affliction and your poverty, even though you are rich. I know the slander on the part of those who say that they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Beware, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison so that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have affliction. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.
My NIV archeology bible in Revelation says how, “Jews denounced Christians to the Roman government as not being “true Jews”. Since the Jews enjoyed legal exemption from participating in the imperial cult (worship of the emperor as a god), this left the Christians open to prosecution for their non participation. John affirmed that although they were disowned by the “official” synagogue, God would acknowledge the faithful Christians as his people.”
So who were the RULERS of this dark age? WHO put Paul and John in prison and WHY were they there? Who were those wicked spiritual hosts that had authority and dwelt from a “heavenly”, HIGH position of power?
Really, is Paul and John telling the early Christians that they needed to put on the whole armor of God to protect themselves from unseen jealous fallen angels that could possess their minds without them even being able to tell they were doing so? Were they being told to guard themselves against unseen evil spirits flying through the air, or hiding under their beds, ready to pounce on them in a moment of their weakness?
NO! That is in my opinion doctrine reeking of paganism, showing all ignorance and superstitions of man.
The early followers of Yeshua were being warned about the coming of false doctrine and the coming of Christian persecution. Nowhere in the bible are adversaries or slanderers identified as being sinful angels, neither is man ever said to be being influenced or manipulated by one.
I find it mind boggling how people argue their “truth” from taking symbolic wording from a scripture and use it to fit their made up stories, rather then using the surrounding content within the scriptures to understand the meaning of the whole text.
Hi Jodi.
What is seen on earth among men is only trivial compared with the ructions in heaven between God and His mighty angels and the powerful beings above. Flesh and blood men are weak and ignorant and easily driven by greater forces in the kingdom of darkness. One third of those angels above are destined to be cast from heaven in a battle. Men are now under the powers of such evil beings who control them through their powers and their demonic servants and the rescue plan of God is to free them and save them.Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,12:04) Hi Jodi.
What is seen on earth among men is only trivial compared with the ructions in heaven between God and His mighty angels and the powerful beings above. Flesh and blood men are weak and ignorant and easily driven by greater forces in the kingdom of darkness. One third of those angels above are destined to be cast from heaven in a battle. Men are now under the powers of such evil beings who control them through their powers and their demonic servants and the rescue plan of God is to free them and save them.Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
See Nick in my opinion, you are taking symbolic language and applying it to made up stories instead of reading what is actually written in scripture to discern biblical truth.“the prince of the power of the air”
What does that mean, what does that represent?
1 Also you — being dead in the trespasses and the sins, 2 in which once ye did walk according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath — as also the others,
Read this scripture slowly and carefully. The spirit that is now at work in those that are disobedient is the same spirit that we also did walk in, which WAS………. the spirit of man that sets his mind on the flesh and gives into the flesh, instead of following the path of God.
The age of this world, what is the age of this world? Does the bible ever tell us that the world is under the manipulation of fallen angels? No, the bible tells us that the dark age of this world is because of man.
Mt 18:7 “Woe to the world because of {its} stumbling blocks! For it is inevitable that stumbling blocks come; but woe to that man through whom the stumbling block comes!
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?
Is God making foolish the wisdom of fallen angels? No, the AGE we are in now, the AGE of the world, is the Age of man following his own way.
Pr 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But he who walks wisely will be delivered.
Pr 10:18 He who conceals hatred {has} lying lips, And he who spreads slander is a fool.
Pr 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind.
Pr 19:1 Better is a poor man who walks in his integrity Than he who is perverse in speech and is a fool.
A slanderer, or devil, is a man who is a liar and a deceiver.
Are not lies passed through speech which travels through the AIR?
Isa 32:6 For a fool speaks nonsense, And his heart inclines toward wickedness: To practice ungodliness and to speak error against the LORD, To keep the hungry person unsatisfied And to withhold drink from the thirsty.
When we walk according to this world, according to the prince or ruler of this world, we are walking after the human liar that believes that his way is better then Gods.
1Ti 1:10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers–and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear
Tit 1:9 He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it.
I believe it is sound doctrine to warn people against lies and false doctrine that do indeed travel through the air from one man's lips to another, being tossed to and fro from one end of the world to the another. Rather then it is to go about telling people of MADE UP FANCIFUL stories of a hidden realm between us and God where we must be on guard that some evil spirit will swoop down from the air and secretly manipulate us.
Hi Jodi,
Natural men are controlled by evil forces.
There is a kingdom of darkness led by the prince of darkness.
That is if you bring yourself to accept what is written in the bible is truth?Rev13
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Eph3
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 16:11
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 25 2008,13:41) Hi Jodi,
Natural men are controlled by evil forces.
There is a kingdom of darkness led by the prince of darkness.
That is if you bring yourself to accept what is written in the bible is truth?Rev13
5And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.6And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
7And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Eph3
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
Colossians 2:15
And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
John 16:11
Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Nick, I believe your position is gaining much weakness fast. I am sure that there are others out there of course who would disagree, but it seems the further we carry this the further I am convinced that you are allowing yourself to remain blind.You give absolutely NOTHING of substance to support your position. You cannot read the scriptures for what they are saying. You deny all context and are reading for only that which you want to see and hear (IMO).
Colossians 1:12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.
Yeshua has delivered us from the POWER of darkness, Yeshua has delivered us from SIN and its power of DEATH!
Once again, Ephesians 2:1 Also you — being dead in the trespasses and the sins, 2 in which once ye did walk according to the age of this world, according to the ruler of the authority of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all did walk once in the desires of our flesh, doing the wishes of the flesh and of the thoughts, and were by nature children of wrath — as also the others,
Read this scripture slowly and carefully. The spirit that is now at work in those that are disobedient is the same spirit that we also did walk in, which WAS………. the spirit of man that sets his mind on the flesh and gives into the flesh, instead of following the path of God.
Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;The devil is NEVER said to be a sinful angel. Devil represents slander or liar. There is no proof that the devil here represents a sinful angel. Given the whole context of what we are told in the NT and the Old for that matter, the devil is best understood here as representing a man who believes his way is better then that of God's.
John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I depart, I will send Him to you. 8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
John 12:30 Jesus answered and said, “This voice did not come because of Me, but for your sake. 31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out. 32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself.” 33 This He said, signifying by what death He would die.
There is nothing in John that would lead me to believe that the ruler of this world is some sinful angel. Rather, the scriptures of the bible show repeatedly that man’s evil ways lead this world.
Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.
The principalities and powers are OBVIOUSLY, if you pay any attention to context what so ever, representing those Jews who held all the authority and power over the law.
Revelation 13 and Ephesians 3 as well have absolutely no hint of supporting the idea that there is a hidden kingdom where sinful angels rule our world and influence us to do evil.
Hi Jodi,
Have those Christadephians got into your ear?Jesus was taken by him up high and offered a piece of the action.[lk4]
There is an adversary and Jesus described the structure of his kingdom.
He is the stronger man who steals the spoils from the tyrannical kingdom.Lk 11.14-26
Jodi, Jodi! From the W.W.C. of God into the Christadephians belief! Not to believe in Satan is a dangers thing to do. You really need to watch your step. Adam and Eve believed that Serpent of old too and look what happend, we all have to die because of it now. Satan has given you a big Lie. You should really pray because of this, and maybe even fast if you can, just a suggestion.
IreneIrene,
I've been following along Jodi's presentations – what part of them do you think is a lie given to her?
Thanks,
MandyJodi………good post, I think the advisory is Us at times, Jesus told Peter , Get behind Me Satan and the Word Satan means Advisory. We all have been advisories at times even God Himself can Be a advisory. As scripture has shown.
Peace to you and yours, Hope the Kids are alright…………..gene
Jodi makes some good points and while I believe that there are spiritual embodiments of evil, ie. demons, Satan himself as the king of evil so to speak is inconclusive. One can make the case that it is a title and not an entity. Other evil beings such as Belial, Moloch, and Beelzebub are also named but it is clear they mean some kind of entity rather then a title.
As far as the Serpent in Eden there is no direct relation to Satan; Gen 3:1 “Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made.” Gen 3:14 “So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.”
I think it is clear that the serpent is an animal and since it talks and has intelligence I would be inclined to view the whole story as allegory, but either literal truth or allegory I don't see the association with Satan.Agreed but what about this verse in Rev 12:9
9 “The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it”.
Don't you think the Sepent of Eden and Serpent or Dragon of Revelation one and the same Satan who is our Adversary?
Quote (gollamudi @ June 27 2008,02:12) Agreed but what about this verse in Rev 12:9 9 “The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it”.
Don't you think the Sepent of Eden and Serpent or Dragon of Revelation one and the same Satan who is our Adversary?
took the words out of my mouth
Jodi……I meant to say adversary not advisory, gollamudi brought it to my attention. Sorry.
Glad to see you back posting.Love to you and yours, kiss the little one for me…………gene
To All……….Sir Issac Newton After many years writing on bible subjects Slowly changed his mind concerning a Real Devil or Satan, to a point where He concluded there was no Such thing as a literal devil or Satan. I think he may be right, Jesus said the the Pharisee were of their father the devil. Did that mean the devil was literally their Father No he was referencing there mindset was that of a Devil, just as He told Peter Get behind me Satan, was Peter literally a Satan Being, NO , He was acting as a adversary, we all at times in our lives have acted this way, the very minds we are born with is Carnal and is Enemy to God not subject to His laws, it is an adversarial mind. It opposes God, so when Jesus said they were from there father the devil He was right, there carnal minds worked in opposition to God's truth, even though they said differently. The Carnal mind we receive from the world is a enemy to God, and therefore is a adversary to Him.
imo……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ June 27 2008,03:46) To All……….Sir Issac Newton After many years writing on bible subjects Slowly changed his mind concerning a Real Devil or Satan, to a point where He concluded there was no Such thing as a literal devil or Satan. I think he may be right, Jesus said the the Pharisee were of their father the devil. Did that mean the devil was literally their Father No he was referencing there mindset was that of a Devil, just as He told Peter Get behind me Satan, was Peter literally a Satan Being, NO , He was acting as a adversary, we all at times in our lives have acted this way, the very minds we are born with is Carnal and is Enemy to God not subject to His laws, it is an adversarial mind. It opposes God, so when Jesus said they were from there father the devil He was right, there carnal minds worked in opposition to God's truth, even though they said differently. The Carnal mind we receive from the world is a enemy to God, and therefore is a adversary to Him. imo……….gene
Hmmn..do you believe in literal “demons” or “unclean spirits”…and if so why them and no devil?I really hope that people will take the time and put in an effort to really think about what I have put forth in this post. I appreciate and give thanks to all who read it and give feed back.
I believe that the serpent in the Garden of Eden symbolized, as some of you might have heard me say before, the MIND OF MAN. This was the mind of man that desired to be like God, but was ignorant in the fact that it needed to learn from God it's proper position in creation.
1 Timothy 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve; 14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.
Because of Eve’s deception she became a transgressor to the law.
Adam was not deceived.
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned— 13 sin was indeed in the world before the law, but sin is not reckoned when there is no law. 14 Yet death exercised dominion from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sins were not like the transgression of Adam, who is a type of the one who was to come.
Sin entered the world through one man.
Sin exists even without laws.
Adam was NOT deceived. Eve is considered the first transgressor of the law, but yet Adam brought sin into the world.I don't know about you folks but to me putting these two scriptures together, it seems clear that Adam was the Deceiver.
Ezekiel 28:11 The word of the Lord came to me: 12 “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: “'You were the model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. 13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, turquoise and beryl. Your settings and mountings were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. 14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub, for so I ordained you. You were on the holy mount of God; you walked among the fiery stones. 15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you. 16 Through your widespread trade you were filled with violence, and you sinned. So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God, and I expelled you, O guardian cherub, from among the fiery stones. 17 Your heart became proud on account of your beauty, and you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor.So I threw you to the earth; I made a spectacle of you before kings. 18 By your many sins and dishonest trade you have desecrated your sanctuaries. So I made a fire come out from you, and it consumed you, and I reduced you to ashes on the ground in the sight of all who were watching. 19 All the nations who knew you are appalled at you; you have come to a horrible end and will be no more.'”
In my opinion if anything, the king of Tyre is being likened to Adam, not a fallen angel. First let’s note that King of Tyre was not said to be perfect, but perfect in beauty.
Details, details! Ezekiel tells us ‘you’ were in Eden the garden and every precious stone adorned you and on the day that ‘you’ were created they were prepared.
Genesis 2:10 A river watering the garden flowed from Eden; from there it was separated into four headwaters. 11 The name of the first is the Pishon; it winds through the entire land of Havilah, where there is gold. 12 (The gold of that land is good; aromatic resin and onyx are also there.) 13 The name of the second river is the Gihon; it winds through the entire land of Cush. 14 The name of the third river is the Tigris; it runs along the east side of Asshur. And the fourth river is the Euphrates. 15 The Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to work it and take care of it.
Gold and other stones are part of our creation and they are linked specifically to the time Adam was placed in the Garden. Verse 13 of Ezekiel 28 makes no sense to relate it to an angel, unless you believe that angels were created in Genesis and then fell shortly after their creation.
Ezekiel 28:1 The word of the Lord came to me: 2 “Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: “'In the pride of your heart you say, “I am a god; I sit on the throne of a god in the heart of the seas.” But you are a man and not a god, though you think you are as wise as a god.
Adam was placed in the Garden to work and care for it. Adam was given the law. Adam was brought all living to find a helper for him. No doubt Adam grew in wisdom through learning about the different forms of life that God had created and asked Adam to name. No suitable helper for Adam was found, because Adam was far greater then anything that God had made. Then Eve was formed, and remember she was formed FROM a part of Adam.
Cherubim are represented as covering as protecting the ark of the covenant. The King of Tyre was a king who was blessed because God would bless other nations that blessed and allied Israel. King Tyre was likened as a cherubim to the nation of Israel. Adam could have been a cherubim over the law of God. Adam was not deceived, because he was the deceiver in the Garden. Adam did not protect the law, but because of his deception Eve transgressed the law. Sin did indeed exist in the world before Eve’s transgression and it came in the form of Adam’s pride.
There is not a story in the bible that speaks of a sinful angel who is full of pride, but there are several scriptures that show MAN as being full of pride, MAN likening himself to a god, and God humbling him by cutting him down or making him fall from the high position he believes he is in.
Job 20: “Surely you know how it has been from of old, ever since man was placed on the earth, 5 that the mirth of the wicked is brief, the joy of the godless lasts but a moment. 6 Though his pride reaches to the heavens and his head touches the clouds, 7 he will perish forever, like his own dung; those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?'
Ps 31:18 Let their lying lips be silenced, for with pride and contempt they speak arrogantly against the righteous.
Ps 59:12 For the sins of their mouths, for the words of their lips, let them be caught in their pride. For the curses and lies they utter,
Pr 16:18 Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.
Side Note- It seems often that people see the word ‘spirit’ when it is by itself and automatically assume it represents something celestial. I suggest everyone do a word search using the online bible with the word ‘spirit’ and see what they find. All too often I believe that people misinterpret the word spirit in the bible.
Isa 2:11 The eyes of the arrogant man will be humbled and the pride of men brought low; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day.
Isa 2:17 -The arrogance of man will be brought low and the pride of men humbled; the Lord alone will be exalted in that day,
I find it interesting how there are so many examples in the bible of man needing to be brought low from the High place he believes he is in, but yet every time in scripture when someone sees a ‘fall from heaven,’ people assume it represents some literal fall by an angel from the heaven of God’s abode.
Isa 37:23 Who is it you have insulted and blasphemed? Against whom have you raised your voice and lifted your eyes in pride? Against the Holy One of Israel!
Jer 49:16 The terror you inspire and the pride of your heart have deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks, who occupy the heights of the hill. Though you build your nest as high as the eagle's, from there I will bring you down,” declares the Lord.
Ob 1:3 The pride of your heart has deceived you, you who live in the clefts of the rocks and make your home on the h
eights, you who say to yourself, 'Who can bring me down to the ground?'So many CLEAR examples of MAN and his pride, however not one text in the bible of a sinful angel in heaven having pride over God. Why do people cling to such a nonexistent biblical doctrine is very perplexing to me.
As I have mentioned before the punishment given to the serpent, is the key to understanding the identity of the serpent.
The mind of man was cursed above all other animals. Animals by nature are driven to act upon danger and to feed themselves, in other words are given by God the mechanism in their brain to survive. As human being and God’s created creatures, we have not only been given a will to survive, but a conscious awareness and a fear of death. By this we have a natural enmity to God, for as serpents, who’s souls cling to the dust, our minds cling to serve our flesh OVER serving God.
The wicked one, the devil, Satan, ruler of this world, all refer to the punished serpent, the mind of man that is now naturally drawn to serve the self, instead of God.
Cain, as the firstborn of the serpent's seed, was a murder and a liar from the beginning.
Yeshua through God's working Spirit was able to overcome the serpent's seed, he crushed his head and destroyed him on the cross, destroying the enmity, the weak flesh of man. In Christ we know that we have immortality, we should put away all fears of death and live not for our bodies, but treat our bodies as if they were dead, not giving into our flesh, but living for God. So by being spiritually minded in God and His plan we can be dead to our bodies and dead to sin, but alive to God!
Ephesians 2:14 for he is our peace, who did make both one, and the middle wall of the enclosure did break down, 15 the enmity in his flesh, the law of the commands in ordinances having done away, that the two he might create in himself into one new man, making peace, 16 and might reconcile both in one body to God through the cross, having slain the enmity in it, 17 and having come, he did proclaim good news — peace to you — the far-off and the nigh, 18 because through him we have the access — we both — in one Spirit unto the Father.
Romans 8:7 because the mind of the flesh [is] enmity to God, for to the law of God it doth not subject itself,
Genesis 4:14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.”
Psalms 81:10 I am Jehovah thy God, Who bringeth thee up out of the land of Egypt. Enlarge thy mouth, and I fill it. 11 But, My people hearkened not to My voice, And Israel hath not consented to Me. 12 And I send them away in the enmity of their heart, They walk in their own counsels. 13 O that My people were hearkening to Me, Israel in My ways would walk.
Colossians 1:21 And you — once being alienated, and enemies in the mind, in the evil works, yet now did he reconcile,
1Jo 5:19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one
Galatians 5:17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law. 19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
The evil one, the devil, in my opinion is clearly identified in the bible as representing the mind of man that clings to serving his flesh and it's desires over that of serving God and being led by His Spirit.
Ro 7:5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
Heb 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death–that is, the devil—
Ro 6:6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
Ro 6:10 For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
Ro 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.
Ro 12:2 Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.
Those who believe that the serpent is a sinful angel that fell because of pride, could you give me your understanding of how the punishment given to the serpent in Genesis fits with it representing this fallen being? Thanks, I would really appreciate it.
We are certainly in the end times when people actually don't believe in Satan being a real being. That my friend is a dangerous thing to do, as far as I can see. Satan deceived Adam and Eve and He is doing it again. That old serpent, the devil, that Satan. He was thrown out of Heaven and 1/3 of the Angel went with Him. He is real not just our carnal minds. That we have too. Because of Satan, we rather do evil then good, look at the world. If it would not be for Jesus coming to be our Savior we would have been lost forever. But THANKS TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOR. We now are born again and Gods Holy Spirit is guiding us in all good things.
I am forever thankful to our Heavenly Father for that.
In Christian Love IreneQuote (Irene @ June 26 2008,11:36) We are certainly in the end times when people actually don't believe in Satan being a real being. That my friend is a dangerous thing to do, as far as I can see. Satan deceived Adam and Eve and He is doing it again. That old serpent, the devil, that Satan. He was thrown out of Heaven and 1/3 of the Angel went with Him. He is real not just our carnal minds. That we have too. Because of Satan, we rather do evil then good, look at the world. If it would not be for Jesus coming to be our Savior we would have been lost forever. But THANKS TO OUR HEAVENLY FATHER AND JESUS CHRIST OUR SAVIOR. We now are born again and Gods Holy Spirit is guiding us in all good things.
I am forever thankful to our Heavenly Father for that.
In Christian Love Irene
Thanks for your concerns Irene.Could you give me an example as to what you feel I am in danger of, not believing that sinful angels can affect my life.
If I am working everyday to put to death the sin that dwells in my flesh, and trying my best to remember the gift that YHWH has instore for me through Yeshua, what is it that I have to be afraid of?
If we are indeed in the end times, and I come to be tested through let's say, persecution by Muslims or Catholics. Do you not believe that my Faith can stand? If the Big earthquake that is overdue to strike the Northwest comes and devastates where I live, do you believe that my faith is not strong enough to withstand all hardship and challenges Yah puts forth on my plate?
Irene, I am well aware of the evil that I see growing rapidly in the United States. Moral Christians values are on a major decline. Children have no respect for their parents, materialism is the dominating force in America, and I cannot over emphasize the Massive problem and obsession our culture has with sex. Whether or not I believe these evils come solely from man or partly due to the influence of sinful angels, I am on all accounts a hater of this world and one who desires with my whole heart the coming of Yeshua. So in God's name, I ask you what do I have to fear from not believing in sinful angels?
Quote (Jodi @ June 27 2008,07:56) [
Irene, I am well aware of the evil that I see growing rapidly in the United States. Moral Christians values are on a major decline. Children have no respect for their parents, materialism is the dominating force in America, and I cannot over emphasize the Massive problem and obsession our culture has with sex. Whether or not I believe these evils come solely from man or partly due to the influence of sinful angels, I am on all accounts a hater of this world and one who desires with my whole heart the coming of Yeshua. So in God's name, I ask you what do I have to fear from not believing in sinful angels?
The material world is not evil nor should we hate it. It is a place of limitations where things and ideas can be tested. It serves it purpose in the multiverse of existence. Remember, “thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven”. In the words of the mythical Hermes Trismegistus “That which is above is as that which is below, and that which is below is as that which is above, to perform the miracles of the one thing.” In this physical plane of limitations we learn discipline and patience. The carnal body is not evil but it is wild and animalistic and needs to be trained to serve the spirit within rather then the reverse as is often the case with the foolish and undisciplined. If one truly looks with an accurate eye to history you will find the world is no worse then in the past and in many ways it is much better.
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