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Quote David……..I have used scripture and you still haven't excepted it. You've used a scripture Gene. Really? Where? Do tell. I do understand why Nick harps on you about logic. It's not that logic's bad. It's that your logic is all you have.
Are you talking about Matthew 23 something. That was 100 of your posts ago. Or Luke 17:21. I think you have to go back through 200 of your posts before you find it.Gene. If you can show me scriptures to back up what you say, our conversations would be a lot shorter.
Quote So when we say the LORD (we mean HE EXISTS) Sure, you can “mean” that, but “lord” certainly doesn't mean “he exists.” It means “master/owner.” Or, “master of the household.”
It certainly doesn't mean “he exists.”But Yahweh does mean “he exists” or “he causes to exist.”
GB,
You say
” Good and Evil are Spirits (intellects) of GOD and they going to and fro through out the earth,”Really?
Is evil an aspect of your god?Not our God.
Your god is not our God.Our God is good.
GB,
You say in another post
“…………First i want to address the “let use” issue, remember the word GOD is a (uniplural) word meaning POWERS which in of it self not indicative of any person as such, but the POWERS of the person. There are seven powers or eyes or intellects or Spirits that operate as ONE POWER. If you understand that then it makes since, the (US) is the combined Powers of the LORD (HE EXISTS) GOD (with POWERS). These powers go to and fro thought all the earth , What i believe the scripture is simply telling us is that the Powers or GOD of one LORD (He Exists) created man and all things.”So to you 'God', as used in scripture does not speak of a person but a collection of good and evil powers?
Not our God.
WJ, I am sorry but your ideas are not according to the scriptures. God does indeed let people, such as innocent children, suffer and die.
Ex 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 7:3 Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer's inkhorn at his side; 4 and the Lord said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.”
5 To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. 6 Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were before the temple.
1 Samuel 15:2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' ”
Deuteronomy 28:58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues–great and prolonged plagues–and serious and prolonged sicknesses.
Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword. 5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.” 7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
God brought forth corruption into the world, deterioration, corrosion, sickness, disease and death. These things make our flesh weak, not evil celestial beings influencing us. Man is predictable. Combine ignorance to man’s natural instincts for survival, create amongst men different tribes of languages and customs, bring famine to one tribe and they will move looking about for food and will in no time be WILLING, LIKE BRUTE BEASTS, to kill other people for food.
Christians claim that fallen angels draw men to war against each other. We see however according scripture that God causes enemies to rise.
Deuteronomy 28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever. 47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. 52 They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse F26 to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues–great and prolonged plagues–and serious and prolonged sicknesses.
Sin comes from man, of which comes when we fulfill the desires of the flesh. This is to act like a BEAST, not an evil celestial being, but a brute beast following after his CARNAL nature.
YHWH plays upon those weaknesses when He brings forth curses, and we see clearly in Deuteronomy what people will stoop to when faced with those curses, it will lead them into worshiping false idols, to becoming hostile against own family members and even cause them to eat their own children.
James 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of
God, but with the flesh the law of sinBECAUSE WE ARE CARNAL WE ARE SOLD UNDER SIN. The elements of the world, such as that FACT THAT WE MUST SURVIVE IN ORDER TO LIVE, FEED OUR FLESH IN ORDER TO LIVE, drives our mind to sin, for by OUR NATURE our minds are drawn to serve our flesh, JUST LIKE THE ANIMALS are drawn to serve theirs.
Ro 7:5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
Ro 8:8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Ro 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
CONTROLLED BY SINFUL NATURE. We are NOT controlled by evil supernatural beings, but the slanderer, the adversary unto man according to SIN is exactly what the bible repeatedly states.
Please do not ignore these scriptures of which reveal who our adversary IS in regards to our sin.
Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals–these are the very things that destroy them.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'
WJ, you and others follow in the custom of pagans.
You believe and fear a false being that does not exist.
Jere 10:3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. 5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.” 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You. 8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine.
Pagans believed that OTHER BEINGS had powers to create calamity and darkness, and these 'beings' took the form of wooden images. Jeremiah and Isaiah however, DECLARE THE WORD OF YHWH, if YOU WJ so choose to LISTEN, THAT ONLY YHWH CAN DO SUCH THINGS.
A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. WJ, what did those wooden idols represent? There is no warning in Isaiah or Jeremiah that besides YHWH there exists another being that can do man harm. NO NO NO, it states there is ONE God. God is defined BY HIS POWERS, when you give those powers over to another being you are creating a false god. When you believe in another being to have the powers that YHWH says are HIS, you are worshiping a false god.
Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
The whole creation has suffered because it was subjected to futility being bonded in corruption- in death and decay. The whole creation has not been suffering because of evil supernatural beings, but because of deterioration and death, a necessary element to teach mankind. The creation is waiting for the firstfruits, the sons of God to be revealed, so it too can be DELIVERED through the Spirit of God. The WHOLE creation groans for the outpouring of YHWH’s Spirit.
When left alone, according to carnal nature, NO GOOD can come from man. God's Spirit in man renews man's mind giving him control over that carnal nature. Jesus was like us in that his flesh was weak just like ours pulling his mind to serve his flesh, but God's Spirit working in him overpowered the carnal nature in him. When Jesus received immortality the bondage to serve the flesh was removed, and the will of Jesus was perfectly united with his Fathers. Believing that Jesus was raised from the dead and we too will be, works our minds to overcome our carnal nature, helping us while we wait, to deny our flesh as best we can and live for God.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2009,14:35)
WJ………if the whole world lies in deception, what excludes you thousand of commentators and 600 Scholars from not being? Is there safety in numbers or what if the blind lead the blind and they (ALL) fall in the ditch.peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Hi GBYea. And what excludes you from being in deception?
Should we believe your words over those who know far more about the Greek and Hebrew and written scriptures than you?
What makes you think they do not have the Spirit of God?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2009,14:35) Is there safety in numbers or what if the blind lead the blind and they (ALL) fall in the ditch.
Is this the way you measure truth? If its in the “majority” it miust be false?
Consider this;
The majority of the world was against Hitler, did that make Hitler right and the rest of the world wrong?
The majority of the world believes Murder and rape is wrong, does this mean that the majority is wrong?
WJ
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2009,06:05) Hi Jodi,
Was Jesus having a conversation with his carnal nature on top of the temple?
NHGood point.
Jesus was some sort of lunitic talking to himself and calling himself satan!
What they fail to see is that there is “spiritual wickedness” that is not the same as the flesh or carnal nature.
To them the flesh is the spirit and the spirit is the flesh. Man is just flesh.
WJ
Quote (Jodi @ Jan. 17 2009,05:55) WJ, I am sorry but your ideas are not according to the scriptures. God does indeed let people, such as innocent children, suffer and die. Ex 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt on that night, and will strike all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 7:3 Now the glory of the God of Israel had gone up from the cherub, where it had been, to the threshold of the temple. And He called to the man clothed with linen, who had the writer's inkhorn at his side; 4 and the Lord said to him, “Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and put a mark on the foreheads of the men who sigh and cry over all the abominations that are done within it.”
5 To the others He said in my hearing, “Go after him through the city and kill; do not let your eye spare, nor have any pity. 6 Utterly slay old and young men, maidens and little children and women; but do not come near anyone on whom is the mark; and begin at My sanctuary.” So they began with the elders who were before the temple.
1 Samuel 15:2 Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'I will punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he ambushed him on the way when he came up from Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and do not spare them. But kill both man and woman, infant and nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.' ”
Deuteronomy 28:58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues–great and prolonged plagues–and serious and prolonged sicknesses.
Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword. 5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.” 7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.
God brought forth corruption into the world, deterioration, corrosion, sickness, disease and death. These things make our flesh weak, not evil celestial beings influencing us. Man is predictable. Combine ignorance to man’s natural instincts for survival, create amongst men different tribes of languages and customs, bring famine to one tribe and they will move looking about for food and will in no time be WILLING, LIKE BRUTE BEASTS, to kill other people for food.
Christians claim that fallen angels draw men to war against each other. We see however according scripture that God causes enemies to rise.
Deuteronomy 28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon you and pursue and overtake you, until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the voice of the Lord your God, to keep His commandments and His statutes which He commanded you. 46 And they shall be upon you for a sign and a wonder, and on your descendants forever. 47 “Because you did not serve the Lord your God with joy and gladness of heart, for the abundance of everything, 48 therefore you shall serve your enemies, whom the Lord will send against you, in hunger, in thirst, in nakedness, and in need of everything; and He will put a yoke of iron on your neck until He has destroyed you. 49 The Lord will bring a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 50 a nation of fierce countenance, which does not respect the elderly nor show favor to the young. 51 And they shall eat the increase of your livestock and the produce of your land, until you are destroyed; they shall not leave you grain or new wine or oil, or the increase of your cattle or the offspring of your flocks, until they have destroyed you. 52 They shall besiege you at all your gates until your high and fortified walls, in which you trust, come down throughout all your land; and they shall besiege you at all your gates throughout all your land which the Lord your God has given you. 53 You shall eat the fruit of your own body, the flesh of your sons and your daughters whom the Lord your God has given you, in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you. 54 The sensitive and very refined man among you will be hostile toward his brother, toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the rest of his children whom he leaves behind, 55 so that he will not give any of them the flesh of his children whom he will eat, because he has nothing left in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 56 The tender and delicate woman among you, who would not venture to set the sole of her foot on the ground because of her delicateness and sensitivity, will refuse F26 to the husband of her bosom, and to her son and her daughter, 57 her placenta which comes out from between her feet and her children whom she bears; for she will eat them secretly for lack of everything in the siege and desperate straits in which your enemy shall distress you at all your gates. 58 “If you do not carefully observe all the words of this law that are written in this book, that you may fear this glorious and awesome name, THE LORD YOUR GOD, 59 then the Lord will bring upon you and your descendants extraordinary plagues–great and prolonged plagues–and serious and prolonged sicknesses.
Sin comes from man, of which comes when we fulfill the desires of the flesh. This is to act like a BEAST, not an evil celestial being, but a brute beast following after his CARNAL nature.
YHWH plays upon those weaknesses when He brings forth curses, and we see clearly in Deuteronomy what people will stoop to when faced with those curses, it will lead them into worshiping false idols, to becoming hostile against own family members and even cause them to eat their own children.
James 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the
law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God–through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sinBECAUSE WE ARE CARNAL WE ARE SOLD UNDER SIN. The elements of the world, such as that FACT THAT WE MUST SURVIVE IN ORDER TO LIVE, FEED OUR FLESH IN ORDER TO LIVE, drives our mind to sin, for by OUR NATURE our minds are drawn to serve our flesh, JUST LIKE THE ANIMALS are drawn to serve theirs.
Ro 7:5 For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death.
Ro 8:8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.
Ro 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
CONTROLLED BY SINFUL NATURE. We are NOT controlled by evil supernatural beings, but the slanderer, the adversary unto man according to SIN is exactly what the bible repeatedly states.
Please do not ignore these scriptures of which reveal who our adversary IS in regards to our sin.
Jude 1:10 Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals–these are the very things that destroy them.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is no other; There is no God besides Me. I will gird you, though you have not known Me, 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun to its setting That there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other; 7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.'
WJ, you and others follow in the custom of pagans.
You believe and fear a false being that does not exist.
Jere 10:3 For the customs of the peoples are futile; For one cuts a tree from the forest, The work of the hands of the workman, with the ax. 4 They decorate it with silver and gold; They fasten it with nails and hammers So that it will not topple. 5 They are upright, like a palm tree, And they cannot speak; They must be carried, Because they cannot go by themselves. Do not be afraid of them, For they cannot do evil, Nor can they do any good.” 6 Inasmuch as there is none like You, O Lord (You are great, and Your name is great in might), 7 Who would not fear You, O King of the nations? For this is Your rightful due. For among all the wise men of the nations, And in all their kingdoms, There is none like You. 8 But they are altogether dull-hearted and foolish; A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine.
Pagans believed that OTHER BEINGS had powers to create calamity and darkness, and these 'beings' took the form of wooden images. Jeremiah and Isaiah however, DECLARE THE WORD OF YHWH, if YOU WJ so choose to LISTEN, THAT ONLY YHWH CAN DO SUCH THINGS.
A wooden idol is a worthless doctrine. WJ, what did those wooden idols represent? There is no warning in Isaiah or Jeremiah that besides YHWH there exists another being that can do man harm. NO NO NO, it states there is ONE God. God is defined BY HIS POWERS, when you give those powers over to another being you are creating a false god. When you believe in another being to have the powers that YHWH says are HIS, you are worshiping a false god.
Romans 8:18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. 19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. 22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. 23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. 24 For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance.
The whole creation has suffered because it was subjected to futility being bonded in corruption- in death and decay. The whole creation has not been suffering because of evil supernatural beings, but because of deterioration and death, a necessary element to teach mankind. The creation is waiting for the firstfruits, the sons of God to be revealed, so it too can be DELIVERED through the Spirit of God. The WHOLE creation groans for the outpouring of YHWH’s Spirit.
When left alone, according to carnal nature, NO GOOD can come from man. God's Spirit in man renews man's mind giving him control over that carnal nature. Jesus was like us in that his flesh was weak just like ours pulling his mind to serve his flesh, but God's Spirit working in him overpowered the carnal nature in him. When Jesus received immortality the bondage to serve the flesh was removed, and the will of Jesus was perfectly united with his Fathers. Believing that Jesus was raised from the dead and we too will be, works our minds to overcome our carnal nature, helping us while we wait, to deny our flesh as best we can and live for God.
Hi Jodi:I agree with you that Satan is not some super-natural being cast out of heaven, but I disagree with some of your conclusions regarding God's purpose for allowing evil and creating calamity.
His purposes in this are judgments to punish men for evil that they have done. His intent with these judgments is not simply to punish, but to bring men to repentance.
Marty
Jw…….If it say the whole cration lies in darkness, does that exclude you 600 scholars, if a blind teaching like the Trinity starts and 600 more people who believe in it, work the scriptures to support it, what would you expect from your fellow indoctrinated believers, something different?. No Just more of the same, right. And speaking of Hitler, he had thousands if not millions who agreed with him and preached His propaganda they really believed in Him and what He was saying, and that was over a short period of time, so don't give me that 600 scholars over 2000 year period and millions of followers who all differ from one another in a state of confusion , can't be wrong either.
Surely you jest.Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
PS…>WJ think about what Jodi has said and posted.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 17 2009,09:36) Jw…….If it say the whole cration lies in darkness, does that exclude you 600 scholars, if a blind teaching like the Trinity starts and 600 more people who believe in it, work the scriptures to support it, what would you expect from your fellow indoctrinated believers, something different?. No Just more of the same, right. And speaking of Hitler, he had thousands if not millions who agreed with him and preached His propaganda they really believed in Him and what He was saying, and that was over a short period of time, so don't give me that 600 scholars over 2000 year period and millions of followers who all differ from one another in a state of confusion , can't be wrong either.
Surely you jest.Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
PS…>WJ think about what Jodi has said and posted.
GBYou didn't answer the question!
Is the Majority always wrong?
If not, then your point is a mute point!
WJ
Hi 94,
Are angels supernatural?
Not within their realm but they are greater than us.Satan can appear as an angel of light.
2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Hi Nick:
You quote the following scripture:
Quote 2 Corinthians 11:14
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.But you did not quote all of what the Apostle Paul is talking about here. He says:
Quote 2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Cr 11:15 Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their worksThis where the serpent, called Satan and the devil transformed himself into an angel of light:
Quote Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? Quote Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.If you have scripture showing that Satan is a super-natural being, please share it with us. Thanks.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Jan. 17 2009,04:34) GB,
You say in another post
“…………First i want to address the “let use” issue, remember the word GOD is a (uniplural) word meaning POWERS which in of it self not indicative of any person as such, but the POWERS of the person. There are seven powers or eyes or intellects or Spirits that operate as ONE POWER. If you understand that then it makes since, the (US) is the combined Powers of the LORD (HE EXISTS) GOD (with POWERS). These powers go to and fro thought all the earth , What i believe the scripture is simply telling us is that the Powers or GOD of one LORD (He Exists) created man and all things.”
So to you 'God', as used in scripture does not speak of a person but a collection of good and evil powers?Not our God.
Nick………again you ignorance come through…….. You evidently don't read the complete posts or you would understand it , well maybe not in your case.you said…….So to you “GOD”, as used in scripture does not speak of a person, but a collection of good and evil powers? what i said was the WORD GOD by (it self) does not (necessarily) imply the (LORD) GOD, i gave reference to the Greek linear that shows the Definite Article (THE) IS nearly ALWAYS there when the text is referencing the LORD GOD.
Please show where i ever said God was a (Collection) of Good and Evil powers. Again your words not mine, Why do you constantly have to distort and lie about what a person said, is that your nature, Your either misquoting or misapplying , or accusing or labeling people. Hardly the fruit of a true Christian Nick.
Your so intent on trying to make me look bad you have no idea of what you are saying , or doing.
Not our God? your God is your Pride, and self serving interests. Which you misappropriate as serving GOD. IMO
love and peace to you………………gene
Hi 94,
What is a supernatural being?
Anything greater than man?No mention of any angelic transformation in Gen1.
However if Satan can transform himself into an angel of light, is capable of false miracles, uses animals and men as vessels, controls all the worldly, is able to offer worldly power and success, can cause illness and disasters on earth and has a dominion that includes angels then he seems to be a pretty supernatural being. Men cannot do such things.
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 17 2009,09:43) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 17 2009,09:36) Jw…….If it say the whole cration lies in darkness, does that exclude you 600 scholars, if a blind teaching like the Trinity starts and 600 more people who believe in it, work the scriptures to support it, what would you expect from your fellow indoctrinated believers, something different?. No Just more of the same, right. And speaking of Hitler, he had thousands if not millions who agreed with him and preached His propaganda they really believed in Him and what He was saying, and that was over a short period of time, so don't give me that 600 scholars over 2000 year period and millions of followers who all differ from one another in a state of confusion , can't be wrong either.
Surely you jest.Peace and love to you and yours………………………gene
PS…>WJ think about what Jodi has said and posted.
GBYou didn't answer the question!
Is the Majority always wrong?
If not, then your point is a mute point!
WJ
WJ…….No, it is not a mute point, the majority can easily be wrong or how does the whole world lie in deception then. And how does MYSTERY BABYLON THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS and abominations of the whole earth exist. Lets not kid ourselves WJ the majority can be very much wrong as it is when it comes to religions or why do we have so many different belief and organizations, if there is only ONE Truth, then more than a thousand others are wrong, so in this case the majority are definitely wrong. I not saying the Majority has to be wrong , but when it comes to religion the majority certainly is wrong. IMOpeace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Hi Nick:
How and where did Satan transform himself into an angel of light?
The Apostle Paul stated that the false Apostles transformed themselves into angels of light:
Quote 2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. false miracles? How about this.
Quote Exd 7:11 Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments. You say:
Quote uses animals as vessels? And you say:
Quote controls all the worldly, is able to offer worldly power and success Can an evil man such as Hitler offer you worldly success if you obey him?
Then you say:
Quote can cause illness and disasters on earth You mean like illness casused when man sprays our foods with different chemicals or disasters like oil spills. Is that what you mean?
Lastly, you say:
Quote has a dominion that includes angels then he seems to be a pretty supernatural being. Men cannot do such things Men and angels become his ministers when they obey evil. Adam and Eve obeyed him and became his servants.
Nick……..An adversarial spirit was in Adam and Eve, at their creation and when they went with it they disobeyed GOD and transgressed his commandment. Adam willing and knowingly did that, and Adam was a Snake , when God confronted Him He blames it on Eve like a lying snake would do. When all along it was Him who instigated the whole thing, remember He wasn't deceived, but it doesn't say he didn't deceive Her to try it first. I think Jodi has described this right, Can't prove it but it does make sense. There is a Psalm in Ecclesiastiuss in the books taken out of the bible by the RCC, that kinda of Hints this. Something like , “O this propensity of man the has crept into the earth”. I cant remember exactly where but i do remember reading it once. Doctrine about demon and devils all have pagan origins and were greatly used by the Catholic Churches to help them control people through the ideologies of unseen powers of demons and devil one of many mysterious teachings.
peace and love…………………gene
Gb,
You say
“……..An adversarial spirit was in Adam and Eve, at their creation and when they went with it they disobeyed GOD and transgressed his commandment. Adam willing and knowingly did that, and Adam was a Snake , when God confronted Him He blames it on Eve like a lying snake would do.”Extraordinary.
And this rubbish you think somehow aligns with what is written?
Please show how.
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