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Anthony……you say Jesus is a God, but what does God say? “for God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man that he should repent’. Did you just throw those words out of your bible? , or perhaps didn’t see it? You certanily don’t seem to believe them. But then you don’t believe Jesus when he said, “that they might know “you” the “only” true God.” And more ” but unto us there is only “one” God, and one mediator between God and men the “MAN” Jesus.
Now for once let’s be honest ANTHONY, YOU “REALLY” don’t believe Scriptures nor what Jesus himself said, your arrogance just believes what you want to believe, even if scriptures say the opposite.
So Jesus is either a human being or not, but he said over a humdered times he was a son of man. And he also said it was the sacrificing of his “BODY” of flesh and Blood that saves us. Also he told us he was going to “his” God” and our God, his father and “our” father. Jesus seems to think we are exactly like he is, but you push him AWAY FROM HIS IDENITY with us.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Good Morning t8,
As we both know, your Jesus is not the same as mine, and so when we each read passages they take on different meanings.
Let’s take this verse for example,
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Before we get into this verse though,
I would like to establish some points that I believe that we both can actually agree upon.
- God declared the End from the Beginning
- God before the world was had a purpose for His creation, and by His power, His will for His creation cannot be removed. It can be said that a promise or declaration from God is TRUE, even though it hasn’t yet been fulfilled, it is viewed as the truth.
I am hoping that we can also agree that a declaration from God or a promise made by God would thus represent His word. Before He made all things including mankind He had promises for mankind. As mankind had not yet been made before the beginning, He obviously could not yet GIVE unto man His word, His word had to remain with Him until mankind existed and then He could begin to SHARE His promises with certain men He elected to give it to.
Is such TRUE to you t8? PLEASE correct anything that you see as being false.
As I hope we can agree the above points are true, I would like you to know that I am mindful of that truth when reading all passages.
Back to the example,
I would like to point out that the word “with” is para translated as “of” as well as “with” and “from“.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me of thine own self of the glory which I had of thee before the world was.
“me” and ‘I” represent Jesus we both can agree upon that!
My Jesus is the Son of Man that God was mindful of and visited, the Son of Man that God called to righteousness to direct all his ways, the seed of David who God had promised He was going to make into His “firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth“, where God says He will keep His mercy with him forevermore.
the “me” and “I” equates to me as the Son of Man Jesus, so the scripture to me is understood like this,
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou Son of Man of thine own self of the glory which Son of Man had of thee before the world was.
Now being mindful of the TRUTH that I hope we both agree upon, the below is likewise true.
Before God created all things He had promised glory unto the Son of Man, before God created all things God had made a promise to David. When David was alive, God shared the promise God had before the world was concerning David’s son, with David.
Thus I understand in truth, that the glory that the Son of Man Jesus was asking for was the glory that God had promised unto the Son of Man before the world was. We read in scripture of that glory that the Son of Man received. In Acts we read that God gave the resurrected Jesus the mercies promised to David, a promise God did in fact have with Him before He created all things. God had said He would be mindful and visit a man and give that man glory and honor and give that Son of Man dominion over all the works of His hands.
Being mindful of that which is TRUE and then applying it to a passage I would like to know how it is you can say I am in error?
You use a passage to prove your doctrine.
I use that same passage to declare that which is already established as true, and Jesus is asking for that truth to be fulfilled!! Jesus is displaying how he believes in God’s word in regards to God’s promises that God made before the world was concerning him, the Son of Man.
What I see happening t8, is you are saying I need to ignore that which is true, and not apply it to the passage.
That which is TRUE is that before God created all things He promised glory unto the Son of Man, He promised glory unto David’s son. Jesus, the Son of Man, Jesus the Son of David, is asking God for THAT glory that the Son of Man had OF God before the world was.
To you Jesus is the Son of Man AND a pre-existing Anointed One, and Jesus is asking to receive back the glory the pre-existing Anointed One use to have.
To me Jesus is the Son of Man God Anointed with the fullness of His Spirit calling him to righteousness, so God could make a MAN into a New Man, a perfect man, one who follows all of God’s ways having faith in God no matter what, a man who is an example to all other men of the power of God’s Spirit over a man, and Jesus was asking for the glory that God had promised before the world was unto the Son of Man, to be the forerunner into eternal life, the firstborn of many brethren, where he would be given a firstborn’s inheritance. Where God fulfills what was spoken in Genesis, a man being made into His image and giving him dominion over all the works of His hands.
The Word was WITH God in the beginning. Your take on this word as meaning ‘promise’ I do not agree with. Of course God makes promises and he speaks these with words, but the Word that was with God is not a mere promise, but was WITH God and this Word is preceded by the definite article which in Greek is like capitalising a word when you name or identify something or someone.
If for example I said you were an angel, then you would derive that I’m saying you are a good person with a nature like an angel. If I say you are the angel, then I’m saying you are an actual angel. So the difference is between a person or thing versus an attribute. And so it is with The Word. It is not an attribute as it is preceded by the definite article.
Now God has love, truth, wisdom, and logos as attributes of himself. But when Jesus declared that he was the truth, he was not saying he was an attribute of God, rather that he as a person is the truth.
Your argument regarding the Word is that it is only an attribute or action of God. The definite article rules that interpretation out. And if that wasn’t enough proof for you, bit also says this Word was WITH God.
From here we know that this Word became flesh and we know who this is and it agrees with Jesus Christ coming in the flesh too of which the Antichrist spirit always denies.
Finally if you needed more proof, you only need to read that all things were created through the Word and you also read the same thing about the Son of God who is Jesus Christ and is actually called ‘The Word of God’.
As students of scripture we let it lead us to the correct understanding. But the wise of this world are fools and deny these things and instead preach a different message that is not inspired by God, rather comes from puffed up pride.
Hi Gene
Just go back and read your own post’s, you are definitely saying JESUS CHRIST is just a man .
God bless 🙏
Hi t8,
I was not debating John 1 in my last post, though what was said could be applied to it certainly, but that is beside the point.
ASIDE from John 1, it is true is it not that God is ALL KNOWING?
ASIDE from John 1, before God “made the earth, and created man upon it” is it TRUE that He made promises for man before He created them?
ASIDE from John 1, is it TRUE that the promises that God gave to David concerning David’s son were in fact promises God had established even before the world was?
T8……Jodi is exactly right, we need to understand an see Jesus as a human being who came from mankind, through the power of God, he is the root and offspring of King David just as he said he is, a 100% sinless human being , who GOD THE “ONLY” GOD, took a “son of man”, who he took and anointed him with the fullness of his spirit, and sent him out into the world to preach the GOSPEL of the kingdom of God, with power , and he gave him the glory he promised him by the resurection of the dead, and made him the head of all mankind to the glory of God.
Jesus is our exact example of how to have a right relationship with God the Father, it is exactly the same as his is, we are considered as brothers of Jesus, he had no advantage over us, except GOD IN DWELLED HIM with his Holy Spirit which kept him from any sin and raised him from the grave and gave him eternal life, a life he never had before he came into his existence as a human being.
The whole point of Jesus existences was to show us what God the Father has planned for mankind from the very begining and the reason for his whole creation on this earth. He is the forerunner of what God the Father had and has in mInd for us all. The first human being raised from the dead, he has God the Glory and Honour and all things are put under his feet, exactly as those who are accounted worthy of the resection will have also.
You rob Jesus of the honour and Glory he recieved after his resurection, by saying he had it before he even ever existed as a human being, as if what he did on this earth was nothing .
Heb 12: 3…..“looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of “Our” FAITH, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the same, and is (now) set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”
T8….show us a single scripture that says he was at the right hand of God before he was resurected from the dead. In fact show us of any activities of Jesus recorded before his existence on this earth, there is none.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Anthony, your the one saying I said Jesus was “just” a man. So post it! . What you think I said is not what I said, which makes you decieved or just a plain liar. What I said was, Jesus was a human being “exactly” as we are, human beings, but was highly exalted by GOD THE FATHER, to be over “ALL” . He is not as any man is in that reguard, just as a king is not an ordinary man , but a “man” none the less. So it is with Jesus, he is the head of the household of the family of God the Father, much as the elder brother of a family has that great honour, as being second to his Father. He always reflects the Fathers will to us, both now and forever. As far as man goes there is none higher then him.
Now did that clarify it for you?
Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene
Hi Gene
You said: post#810729 The ordinary Jesus brigade.
the ONLY THING THAT MADE JESUS ANY DIFFERENT THEN THE REST OF ALL HUMANINITY WAS THE “ANOINTING” SPIRIT OF THE LIVING GOD. OUR BROTHER JESUS WAS AND IS NOT AN OUNCE DIFFERENT THEN ALL HIS BRETHERN WHO HAVE RECIEVED THAT ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM.
Look at your post, first you say ” the only thing that made Jesus different”
In the next breath you say: OUR BROTHER JESUS WAS AND IS NOT AN OUNCE DIFFERENT THEN ALL HIS BRETHERN WHO HAVE RECIEVED THAT ANOINTING SPIRIT OF GOD IN THEM.
You speak with fork tongue, you know what the Bible says about the tongue.
If anyone is decieved or just a lier it’s you .
We couldn’t receive Christ till after Pentecost.
It was expedient for Christ to ascend to His Father.
God bless
Hi Gene,
Well put, “as far as man goes there is none higher than him“!
We are said to be in error when all we are doing is applying clear given truth to passages. They can’t even bother to think upon that given truth, or have the notion that one is to apply clear given truth to all passages.
They have these handful of passages that they say prove Jesus pre-existed, however when one applies the clear given truth to those same passages it reflects directly on the clear given truth and dissolves any notion whatsoever that he did pre-exist, it makes pre-existence total foolishness.
The clear truth is that God is all knowing, that He made all things for a purpose, and that purpose He has revealed to us through promises. Before the world was, His promise/purpose for mankind was to bring us into eternal life.
God has clearly told us that He was going to take the offspring of David and make him into a Master and a Messiah, make him into His own Son, make him into His firstborn, call him to righteousness for to be a light bringing forth eternal life.
God has clearly told us that He was going to be mindful of a human, visit him, and give that human dominion over all the works of His hands. These clear promises given were of God before the world was. Before the world was God had glory for man, which makes sense as God made man/Adam in His own image, and God made man/Adam to have dominion over the works of His hands from the beginning. We see God call a man to righteousness and perfect him, make him into a NEW Man, one who God directs all his ways, and thus a man who is perfect in faith following all of God’s ways. A man deserving of having dominion over God’s works, a man who lives in the image of God.
Jesus declares himself the Son of Man, Jesus knows the glory God promised unto the Son of Man, he could read of it in Psalms and Isaiah, and he knew it was glory that God had planned for him before the world was. We then read passages of this Son of Man receiving the glory that had been promised. Why would we think that when the Son of Man asks God for glory, it would not be the glory that God had OF him, the Son of Man, before the world was? It is the definition of blindness and foolishness to say otherwise. The WORD of God, His promises, give us SPIRITUAL WISDOM, we apply that SPIRITUAL WISDOM to ALL passages!!
What does Jesus say in the same chapter, that makes those who say Jesus is asking to receive back glory he had already as a non flesh one of a kind being, totally foolish?
He says,
John 17:24 Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.
The glory the Son of Man was asking for, was the glory the Son of Man had OF God before the world was, becoming the firstborn of MANY brethren into eternal life.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
Jodi……..that is exactly right, Jesus is a human being, came into his lie exactly as we have, through a human birth process, he recieved the Honour and Glory, that God had promised him, by the resurection from the dead, and being the first human being resurected from death , and now sit at the right hand of almighty God.
These decieved people, are so blind they can’t even understand, that simple truth. They don’t see Jesus as a “human being” who God perfected and elevated to his present Glory. They destort scriptures to meet their “false” teachings, not understanding that God was working in the “man” Jesus, to show us all of “our” potential, by raising him from death to eternal life, which he has prepared for all those that believe.
They are of the evil one, who’s teachings “Seperate” Jesus from his human brothers and sisters, by making different then we are, they actually deny his “Faith” in God the Father, by saying he is a God himself. Not understanding why would a God himself need to trust in another God, when he himself being a God could save himself. In the way the deny the “FAITH” of Jesus in his and our God.
We do not deny “his Faith”, in the only true God, that quickened his “mortal body” from death, unto eternal life. As he can do for us also.
Bless you Jodi.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Anthony……I was addressing his humanity, not his position given him by God. You are so incessed about demeaning me you can’t even understand what I was referring to, much like you can’t understand plain scriptures Jodi and I post either.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Hi Jodi,
ME: The fact that it was CURSED, cursed not by God, but by Satan’s insertion in the entire process of the world.
YOU: Total garbage you speak, directly against the written Word of God.
I would appreciate it if you were to expand instead, and clarify your perception not just say total garbage!
TOTAL GARBAGE IS YOUR
CARNAL MINDED MENTALITY which will end in dust!
Genesis 3:17 And to Adam he said: Because thou hast hearkened to the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee, that thou shouldst not eat,
CURSED is the earth
in thy work:
What actually happened SPIRITUALLY to Adam when he REJECTED GOD’S WILL, by which rejection he
CURSED THE WORLD THROUGH
HIS GENERAL WORK?
God was clear, He didn’t say I CURSE THE WORLD, OR I CURSE YOU to Adam , AND SO ON. BUT
CURSED IS
THE WORLD!
DEFINITELY NOT DIRECTLY BY GOD. BUT by
a predestined process in relation to
ADAM’S FALL, AND HIS GENERAL SATANICALLY CONTAMINATED WORK ! Commenced
IMMEDIATELY ON ADAM SIN. By which sin, without Adam’s awareness, SATAN
DELIBERATELY, and AUTOMATICALLY , up to that particular time on the run, useless, simply waiting for his involvement in creation,
INTRODUCED HIMSELF INTO
THE NEW PHYSICAL CREATION PROCESS IN ORDER, from his side point of view
TO BE LIKE THE MOST HIGH.
Obvious, as he presumed. Well indicated in
Isaiah 14:13,14. A PROCESS for the sake of truth, of
THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. A knowledge which is disputed
even up to this very day. Consequently, Satan through Adam and Eve sin
occupied both ADAM’S SOUL/MIND, and EVE’S SOUL/HEART.
Simply to start his conflicting tasks between the man and the woman, THE MIND and THE HEART respectively, and generally speaking in the entire process of the world. Thus as much as before sin ALL THINGS were in THE ONENESS OF GOD through the HOLY SPIRIT, and the man and the woman in God’s TERMS and harmony were
TWO IN ONE FLESH, without SEX and DEATH and all what’s related to it, they through their sin commenced the Satanically contaminated sexual reproductive process, the only actual work IN THAT MOMENT IN TIME Adam was capable of, and through every conception,
He CURSED both the entire human race and the WHOLE process of the world by the FLOODING OF
SATAN’S EVIL SPIRIT and his demons. SIMPLY AS
Adam made use of
Satan’s major ASSET:
SIN: and humanity ended in
DEBT, DEATH, HELL and also lostGOD’S TERMS OF the substance of
THE FLESH and received the satanic terms of the substance of the MORTALFLESH and BLOOD. CURSED! Well asserted in
Romans 7:18 For I know that there dwelleth not in me, that is to say, in my flesh,THAT WHICH IS GOOD. For to will is present with me: but to accomplish that which is good, I FIND NOT. 19For the good which I will, I DO NOT: but the evil which I WILL NOT, that I DO. 20Now if I do that which I will not, it is no more I THAT DO IT: but sin (SATAN’S EVIL SPIRIT) that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that when I have a will to do good,
EVIL(SATAN) IS PRESENT WITH ME
22For I am delighted with the law of God, according to the inward man: (THE SOUL/MIND) 23But I see another law in my members, fighting against the law of my MIND and captivating me in the law of sin (SATANIC) that is in my members. 24Unhappy man that I am, who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 THE GRACE OF GOD, BY
JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD.
Therefore, I myself, with the MIND serve the law of God: but with
THE FLESH , the law of sin.( SATAN)
THUS the entire human race became Satan’s property, and
THE SOURCE OF HIS EXISTENCE, his living state!
and only a DIVINE intervention could remove Satan from human souls, and the process of the world!
Well declared by Jesus in
Mark 11:14 And answering he said to it: May no man hereafter eat fruit of thee any more for ever! ….
ATTENTION Jodi and Gene,
ORDINARY HUMAN BEINGS OF EARTH WERE NOT IN THE POSITION TO PRODUCE A REDEEMER AND PAY THEIR OWN
RANSOM FROM
THEIR OWN DEBT THEY OWNED SATAN.
Humans WERE in the hand of God’s Mercy, and the only way out was that
The entire human race had to be
BORN ANEW SPIRITUALLY!
RECREATED ANEW spiritually!
The fact that Jesus IN THE LAST SUPPER, asserted that
THE HUMAN SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD SUBSTANCE IS
HIS,
JESUS gave His divine flesh as a ransom
IN EXCHANGE FOR OURS,
TO OWN OURS IN ITS FILTH,
ON HIS RESURRECTION
HE BECAME POOR IN ORDER FOR THE HUMAN RACE TO BECOME RICH.
JESUS NOT ONLY PAID OUR DEBT BUT HE
MADE US RICH.
A MAN BORN AGAIN
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE IN THE EMBODIMENT OF JESUS ON HIS RESURRECTION.
JESUS FOR THE FIRST TIME
AUTHENTIC HUMAN OF EARTH.
OUR BROTHER IN THE TRUTH.
ON HIS BIRTH JESUS WAS NOT
OUR BRETHREN BUT
IN ALL THINGS
LIKE
HIS BRETHREN
Well clear in
John 20:17 to Mary Magdalene, the only time Jesus Himself
CALLED US HIS BRETHREN!
John 20:17 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me: for I am not yet ascended to my Father.
But go to my brethren and say to them:……..
Jesus the Son of Man, GLORIFIED AND BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST, the life giving spirit, consequently though DEAD IN HIS FLESH, ALIVE
BOTH FLESH AND SPIRIT!
JESUS CHRIST right now has A UNIQUE
POWER and WISDOM of God. Well asserted in
1Corinthians 1:24 But unto them that are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ, the power of God and the wisdom of God.
And He
ONLY HE AS THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH, functions as He feels fit both in the flesh and in the spirit.
He manifested this PRECISELY IN HELL IN FRONT OF SATAN.
After
IN ORDER TO BE IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN
Satan took Jesus’ SOUL to hell.
But all that, if God permits in the next post
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
ASIDE from John 1, is it TRUE that the promises that God gave to David concerning David’s son were in fact promises God had established even before the world was?
Jodi,
From God’s point of view,
GOD’S KINGDOM IS FULLY ACCOMPLISHED!
EVEN BEFORE GOD COMMENCED CREATION!
GOD’S KINGDOM IS FULLY ACCOMPLISHED IN the EMBODIMENT of
JESUS CHRIST
Well asserted in
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time:
Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool?
The problem with you Jodi is that
YOU ONLY LOOK AT JESUS FROM HIS HUMAN SIDE POINT OF VIEW!
You don’t accept the fact that
He pre-existed as a spirit,
In the same way all humans were.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT JESUS IS A DIVINE SPIRIT
Our origin is
FROM ONE SPIRIT !
LUCIFER! the LIGHT BEARER!
THE MORNING STAR
THE BEGINNING! The first ever carrier of God!
THE FIRST PHYSICAL/SPIRITUAL CREATURE!
THE ACTUAL LIGHT WHICH ENLIGHTENED THE ENTIRE INFINITE EXISTENCE!
And through/by Lucifer God created all the heavenly realms.
And in the core of the heart of Lucifer there was
“THE WORD” of God, his eternal life. Jesus,
the Son of Man to be!
THE ACTUAL AND REAL
BEGINNING.
The only mediator/spirit between God and His creatures!
Now within
“THE WORD” Jesus’FLESH TO BE, the Son of man to be,
THE HOUSE OF GOD there
was and is
GOD THE FATHER precisely
IN THE CORE OF THE HOLY GHOST!
THUS GOD’S TRINITY WAS IN
LUCIFER
SIMPLY TO BE
THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT!
To be more accurate:
GOD THE FATHER, THE HOLY GHOST, AND “THE WORD” ALL IN
LUCIFER and
ALL OF THEM
THE MORNING STAR
THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT AS SPIRITS
and the only physical VISIBLE ENTITY was
LUCIFER!
THE ACTUAL PHYSICAL LIGHT AS AN ARCHANGEL!
IN MORE DETAIL:
Lucifer
CARRIED:
“THE WORD: Jesus to be, the Son of Man to be in His heart! OR MORE ACCURATE
LUCIFER’S HEART! A heart shared AT ALL COSTS between this first ever creature and God! ETERNAL LIFE WAS ESTABLISHED!
THEN
“THE WORD” Jesus TO BE, the Son of Man TO BE,
CARRIED
THE HOLY GHOST! The Son of GOD TO BE! IN JESUS’SOUL TO BE,
Then
THE HOLY GHOST! THE SON OF GOD TO BE, IN JESUS’ SOUL TO BE,
CARRIED
GOD THE FATHER! JESUS’ SPIRIT TO BE! Thus:
JESUS ON MOUNT TABOR WAS
THE NEW LUCIFER!
THE NEW MORNING STAR
THE PRIMORDIAL LIGHT IN
FLESH ON EARTH!
GOD’S TRINITY EMBODIED IN JESUS AS MAN!
Please reflect deeply, and pray for THE LIGHT!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel,
YOU:The fact that it was CURSED, cursed not by God, but by Satan’s insertion in the entire process of the world.
ME: The WORLD was CURSED by God because of man’s sin. Man sins from the imagination of his OWN heart.
I said you speak garbage because scripture is absolutely CLEAR that God brings forth not only blessing but CURSING.
You speak a direct LIE against scripture when you say the world is cursed by Satan’s insertion in the entire process of the world.
Who is this Satan you speak of? Satan is SAW-TAWN in Hebrew, meaning adversary. We read of several different SAW-TAWNS in scripture. So what SAW-TAWN are you referring to?
CARMEL, it is God bringing forth cursing.
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: 15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee. 17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Hi Carmel,
YOU:
Well asserted in
Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time:
Sit on my right hand, until I make thy enemies thy footstool?
The problem with you Jodi is that
YOU ONLY LOOK AT JESUS FROM HIS HUMAN SIDE POINT OF VIEW!
You don’t accept the fact that
He pre-existed as a spirit,
ME: God was speaking to a HUMAN of David’s seed who God promised He would be mindful of him and visit him, He would be a Father unto David’s son and give David’s son the mercies He promised David, and He would make him a king of kings and a lord of lords to rule over the house of Jacob forever. It is the Son of Man (ADAM), David’s son that would be begotten by God who was to sit at God’s right hand BECAUSE as scripture tells us he laid down his life for the sake of his brothers and sisters, so God gave him a portion among the great and made him a Master to divide the spoil with the mighty as the prophet Isaiah tells us. Through God resting His Spirit upon a man, calling him to righteousness, directing all his ways, TEACHING him, Jesus learned obedience. Afterall, the son of Jesse was given the Spirit of Knowledge and Fear of the LORD. Having been obedient follow God’s command to go to the cross he was perfected and BECAME our source for eternal salvation.
THE LIGHT that Jesus is has nothing to do with pre-existing, God called the son of Abraham, Jesse, and David to righteousness where God would hold his hand and keep him for to be a LIGHT for all people.
There is NO scripture that says that Jesus pre-existed as a spirit, nor any of us for that matter.
Carmel scriptures teaches us the below,
God made Adam (human) in His own image and gave him dominion over all the earth, Adam failed to trust in and follow God and it led to sin and death. God knew this was going to happen, as God knew full well that a creature He creates He must give that creature of His Spirit, He must be taught and led by God, as God is the source to all Wisdom and Understanding, compared to His creation/ humans who are ignorant.
Adam could do nothing of himself, just as Jesus could do nothing of himself. None of us can obtain righteousness without God’s Spirit dwelling in us, teaching us, directing our ways. JESUS, the son of Abraham, Jesse, and David is the ONLY mortal human to be begotten by God, called to righteousness, have God direct ALL his ways, and by such he was perfected learning obedience, going to the cross he displayed his undying FAITH in God, by God’s Spirit resting upon him without measure having been begotten by God he remained without sin. By this he could not be held to the penalty of death, God raised him, gave him eternal life, making him the ADAM/HUMAN in God’s image that God had planned before the world was, who would have dominion over all creation, all the works of God’s hands, ruling as a king of kings and a lord of lords as a human from the tribe of Judah, from the house of Jacob, having an eternal throne.
Carmel…..what Jodi said in the above post is exactly right. Jesus as a human being exactly like us, who lived without sin , demonstrates to all human beings it is possible to live without sin as a human being. He is the exact fulfillment of what God has planned for all humanity. He proved to humanity with God’s help we can all achieve that goal. Remember what he said, he could do “nothing” of himself, and again , “all things are possible with God”, and again, who so ever overcomes “even as I have”. Question is how did Jesus overcome,?, answer, “with the spirit of God”.
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
Hi All,
God expresses himself wholly in Christ.
Col 2:8 (NASB)…rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,
Isa 43:11 (NASB) I, even I, am the LORD, And there is no savior besides Me.
Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the MIND OF THE SPIRIT because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Me: The mind of the spirit is the mind of the holy spirit which is the mind of God. The human mind in that same spirit is of the son of man. Notice “Spirit itself maketh intercession for us”. Together, they are one mind. Who is in that spirit?
1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Me: It is the human mind of Christ. He is the human mind of the holy spirit and thus the mediator that makes intercession for us. God in the OT expressed himself in in theophanies and christophanies. His presence was in them. Thus they were holy and God. No one has heard or seen God at any time except through the Word of God.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Me: Christ became the only spiritual son of God as a human at that time.
Hi All,
2 Cor 3:3 (NKJV) You are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read by all men; 3 clearly you are an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, that is, of the heart.
Me: We will have a new human heart of the holy spirit of God.
Ezk 11:19 (NKJV) Then I will give them one heart (me: of Christ), and I will put a new spirit (me: holy spirit) within them, and take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh,
Me: It will align with the human mind of Christ and his human heart of the holy spirit.
2 Cor 2:16 (NKJV) For “who has known the (human) mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
Matt 23:10 (NKJV) And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ.
Me: Even the prophets of old did not comprehend what the new testament church can and does now, for their was no human teacher that was perfect, without sin and with the holy spirit of God in him teaching humans.
John 14:15 (NKJV) “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you foreve. 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He (me: the messiah) DWELLS WITH YOU and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
Me: The Messiah would transform into a spirit—the holy spirit with the human heart of man in it.
John 16:12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 However, when He, the SPIRIT OF TRUTH, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. 14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He [will take of Mine and declare it to you.:
Me: The human mind of the spirit follows the mind of God in that same spirit. Together they are one. The human mind of Christ relates to us and teaches us.
John 14:6 (NKJV) Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.
Hi All,
2 Cor 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
1 Cor 14:45 (NASB) So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT.
1 Cor 15:22 For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead.
John 5:25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,
Me: It is man that saves man through being the son of God. Christ is the second Adam. As the first Adam was called the son of God because he was created directly by God (Luke 2:38), so is the second Adam created directly by God. And so were the angels created directly by God and called the sons of God. So are members of the New Testament church called the sons of God for the church has no predecessors by are a direct creation of God through Christ. Both man and the angels are made in the spiritual image and form of God.
Christ is the second Adam in the sense that we are created as sons of God by dying and rising with him in baptism to a new life. We become the adopted sons of God (Ephesians 1:5) through Christ.
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?
Me: Those that believed in Christ but died before Pentecost in Acts 2 would live again spiritually just before Pentecost, and those that believed in Christ but died after that Pentecost would not die spiritually. When the verse says believe in Christ, it does not only mean at the beginning, but all the way to the end of one’s physical existence here. Those that endure to the end will be saved (Matt 24:13). We will be spirits first like Christ and then acquire bodies later like Christ will aquire his new body.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
2 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
Me: Christ will not receive his new body before us, but with us. He is a spirit now.
Hi All,
Matt 24:36 But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so will the coming of the Son of Man be
Me: Does Matt 24:36 contradict John 16:14. Take a look at Revelation 11:7-11. The two witnesses bodies shall lie in the street of Jerusalem whereby the Lord shall raise them up at his return. So we know at least from that point to three and a half days later that the wise shall know that the Lord will return. Can we go back further than that?
1 Cor 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
Exodus 32:14 And the LORD repented (me: changed his mind) of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Me: It could very well be that God has not decided as of yet when the exact day his son returns. But you can bet that the human mind of the spirit will know.
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