John 3 Born Again

This topic contains 37 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Anthony 2 days, 19 hours ago.

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  • #845425
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…..Still ignoring the scriptures I have posted to you, why don’t you just try to address them for a change.

    Look I am not here to change scriptures and force our text to say what they infact do not say, I just try to believe the as they are written.

    Flesh and blood is unable to inherit anything, it never  could  it is just a house we live in, but God gave it to us to live in, and our bodies are the the temples of the living God,  that is if you believe what scripture says. What makes you have such a horrible view of our bodies,I find them marvelous and beautifully made., just as I find all of God’s creation is, you can go float as a wind or vapor without a body all you want m I am satisfied with the one God has given me, and it would not bother me to live in it for ever either, espically with God the Father in it also.

    TC…..you in the dream world of  “mystery religion”.   GOD HIMSELF WHO IS SPIRIT LIVES IN AND THROUGH HIS PHYSICAL CREATION. or haven’t you ever read, “that God may be “in” all and “through” all.  God the Father is in all his living creation, or why would we be told ” for the invisible atributes of God are seen in the things he has created.”

    The whole creation works by the Spirit of the Living GOD , IT’S IN ALL LIVING THINGS. 

    God promises to deliever all his creation from decay and corruption, not to destory them, and t h at includes mankind also.

    A big problem you have is you really don’t know what a spirit is.  Why not find that out “first”. 

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

     

     

    #845435
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

    You: Still ignoring the scriptures I have posted to you, why don’t you just try to address them for a change.

    Me: Gene: This is what I have been saying about you. Now you echo it to make it appear that you have said it all along. I had constantly queried you about this. I have answered all the scripture you posted. It is you who have not answered my queries. This is the same thing about “going all over the place” in reference to Jodi especially. . I do not go all over the place without connecting the dots like your guru does.

    You: Look I am not here to change scriptures and force our text to say what they in fact do not say, I just try to believe the as they are written.

    Me: I do not force anything. I connect the dots by looking at the big picture. I show you the Hebrew and Greeks words from the Greek and Hebrew texts and there various definitions. I try to pick the right ones that connect the dots to diminish any supposedly contradictions. You, like a blind bat do not. You then do not show me how the words in dispute by me should be the words used by the version of the bible used by you.

    You: Flesh and blood is unable to inherit anything, it never could it is just a house we live in, but God gave it to us to live in, and our bodies are the the temples of the living God, that is if you believe what scripture says. What makes you have such a horrible view of our bodies,I find them marvelous and beautifully made.

    Me: He gives us a different house made in the image of the first house.

    1 Cor 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain (me: seed), it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain (Me: seed of the holy spirit): 38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body…38 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

    Me: God gives us a body of the holy spirit. The glory of the body of the holy spirit is a different glory than the body of the terrestrial. Notice below, “WE shall be change” NOT our bodies shall be changed. We receive brand new bodies reserved in heaven for us.

    1 Cor 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and “WE shall be changed”.

    Me: This verse does not necessarily mean that the dead in Christ is without consciousness.  No, in fact it doesn’t. The dead in Christ rest with him in heaven.

    2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:..And white robes (me: for their new bodies) were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

    Me: our Minds (of the holy spirit) can live without our bodies.  I just showed it to you.

    1 Peter 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, RESERVED IN HEAVEN for you,

    2 Cor 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, ALL THINGS ARE BECOME NEW.

    Me: “ALL things are become new” includes our new bodies. We have our present bodies here on earth and the ones reserved in heaven for us—two different places.

    You: just as I find all of God’s creation is, you can go float as a wind or vapor without a body all you want m I am satisfied with the one God has given me, and it would not bother me to live in it for ever either, especially with God the Father in it also..

    you in the dream world of “mystery religion”. GOD HIMSELF WHO IS SPIRIT LIVES IN AND THROUGH HIS PHYSICAL CREATION. or haven’t you ever read, “that God may be “in” all and “through” all. God the Father is in all his living creation, or why would we be told ” for the invisible atributes of God are seen in the things he has created.”

    Me: I never ever said we will have a vapor body.  Just because one disagrees with you does not make him a citizen of Mystery Babylon.  You have use this many times with others.

    Rev 22:16 I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning STAR.

    Dan 12:3 (NIV) Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the STARS for ever and ever.

    Me: We will have bodies like the angels who are referred to as stars. I have quoted these verses and the one below. But you put your spin on it by just focusing on one scripture that I had quoted that we have spirit bodies. This does not mean vapor bodies.

    Matt 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

    Me: Angels are referred to as stars in the bible. The Messiah has a body like the angels in heaven, but MUCH HIGHER. He is the BRIGHT  and morning star. We will be glorified with similar bodies, for we shall be like him.

    Angels as “Stars” in the Bible

    Here are a few inserts from the link immediately above explaining that the angels in heaven are referred to as stars:

    Quote:
    Job 38:6 On what were its bases sunk,
    or who laid its cornerstone,
    7 when the morning stars (me: arch angels) sang together
    and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (If these “morning stars” are angels, we can easily see this phrase alongside the one that follows regarding “sons of God” [another term for angels] shouting for joy. If it is not about angels, however, just how were literal stars said to have sung together?)

    Job 38:6 On what were its bases sunk,
    or who laid its cornerstone,
    7 when the morning stars sang together
    and all the sons of God shouted for joy? (If these “morning stars” are angels, we can easily see this phrase alongside the one that follows regarding “sons of God” [another term for angels] shouting for joy. If it is not about angels, however, just how were literal stars said to have sung together?)

    Me: Please do not come back AGAIN  and say that I ever said we will have vapor bodies—on the other hand you probably will.

    You: The whole creation works by the Spirit of the Living GOD , IT’S IN ALL LIVING THINGS.
    God promises to deliever all his creation from decay and corruption, not to destory them, and t h at includes mankind also.

    Me: Who said otherwise? The holy spirit is not in all things now, but it will be in the end.

    You: A big problem you have is you really don’t know what a spirit is. Why not find that out “first”.

    Me: NO Gene, the big problem is that you are a spinner and liar of the first order.

    You tell me what a spirit is first. And when you are disputing what I said, please refer to all the scriptures I quoted, connect the dots and tell me what it means to you.

    #845437
     GeneBalthrop 
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    TC…..Yea like you refer to all the many scriptures I have posted, right.  You put a twist on all kinds of scriptures by putting your own spin on them, and then you accuse others of doing exactly what you do, you pick and choose words and insert them into your conclusions.

    I will give you my understanding of what spirit is seening you are unable to, which explains a lot.

    A Spirit is a cognasity of things,  it gives us our intelligence about things, it comes in types and kind,  like clean and unclean spirits,  It is invisible can not be seen, like the wind, or  some vapors,  . Jesus said this, when a unclean spirit leaves a man it goes about in “arid” places looking for rest. A spirit with out a body to live in is looking for a body to dwell in, it can return back into the body it came from,if that body is not occupied and can bring others with it, and if that happen the last state of that man will be worse then the first state.

    There is no SPIRIT “BODY”,  ONLY A SPRITUAL PHYSICAL BODY. which is a physical body sustained by the Spirit of God, that is the body we will have, that is the “body” Jesus now has it is a spritual “body” , Jesus is not a spirit, he has spirit “in” him. The seven spirits of the living God as well as the seven horns (powers) , which he shall rule this earth with. 

    No spirit is a body, they need bodies to live in so they can find rest, otherwise they simply drift around in arid or dry places seeking a body to find rest. God is a spirit and live in us,  or , “know you not, that your “body” is the “temple” of the living God.  

    God spoke throught the mouth of Jesus , and said” “destory this temple and in three days I shall raise it up.”

    Spirit are forces that cause us to think, they come in types and kinds,  clean and unclean, they cause us to move in a direction by the cognisity’s the input into our minds.  Our bodies are just houses we live in, and God has given us all a house as he pleases already .  When we die these bodies turn back to dust from which they came, but when they are resurected by regeneration of the holy spirit, we will have them again,  just like it say, “it” is sown in weakness, “it” is raised in power,  notice the “it” there is not changed to a different “it’. Why because the bod raised is exactly the same as the one that died,. The same applies with a grain of wheat or any seek, it reproduces itself,not something else x as you supose.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

     

    #845450
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

    You: God spoke through the mouth of Jesus , and said” “destroy this temple and in three days I shall raise it up.

     

     

    Me: First,

     

    Matt 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

    Me: “Let the dead (of a spirit mind) bury the dead (physically and spiritually) is the most fitting understanding. So when we are born of the spirit, we are born of a regenerated spirit mind.

     

    scripture under consideration:
    John 2:18 Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things? 19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days   I   will raise it up. 20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? 21 But he spake of the temple of his body. 22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

    Me: The Messiah rose himself from the dead.

    Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God,…

    Heb 1:3 The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the EXACT representation (5481) of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.
    5481 xaraktḗr – properly, an engraving; (figuratively) an exact impression (likeness) which also reflects inner character.

    Me: The Messiah’s spiritual mind is the exact copy of his Father.  He is the only true Son of God.

    Col 2:9 (NIV) For in Christ lives all the FULNESS of God in a human body.

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him

    For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

    Me: The Messiah’s spirit mind, which is the exact copy of his Father’s  resurrected his human body and soul from the grave.

    John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life (me: human), that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

    Me: Was the Father speaking through the son?  Was the Father going to lay down his life…the answer is a big NO.

    John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I AM THE RESURRECTION, and the life…

    Me: Christ, not his Father is the resurrection.

     

     

     

    #845451
     Truthcomber 
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    John 11:25…he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

    Me: Christ surely believed that the Father was fully in him. The spirit mind of Christ which is the exact image of the person of his Father raised his humanity from the dead.

    Gene,

     

    Matt 22:32 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

    Me: The humanity of these saints was not raised from the dead until the glorification of Christ. The holy spirit never dies. Their spirit minds were alive when they had died.

    Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (holy spirit) shall return unto God who gave it.

    Me: The holy spirit with the spirit minds of the OT saints in it returned to God when they had died.

    Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my (David’s) soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption…31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

    Gen 4:10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.

    Me: Nobody’s souls went to heaven prior to the resurrection and glorification of Christ.

    Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath (crucifixion) be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!…15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead (humanly) shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

    Me: The dead humanly shall hear the voice of God after his resurrection where they are baptized in the spirit.

    #845452
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene,

     

    You have unjustly accuse me of not addressing the scriptures you quote.  So please do not be a hypocrite and address all the scriptures I have quoted and put them into a logical order to render your understanding of it.  I will address the rest of your absurdity later.

    #845454
     journey42 
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    Matthew 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

    Hi Ed

    Regarding the above passage – It boils down to two kingdoms. There are two kingdoms here on earth. One is from below, and the other one is from above. You should know that Christ came to show us the heavenly kingdom simply by teaching us to learn and obey the Word of God. Whatever is done to take us out of captivity, comes from above and is of our Father’s kingdom. If our intervention comes from Christ, and we receive a little help…ie mercy, deliverance….eye’s opened, then it’s that kingdom from above that has touched us, and not the kingdom from below. We have not inherited yet if God gives a little help, but he has only opened our eyes so that we can identify and follow the true Shepherd.

    Jesus came to show us the way. He is the door. The path leading into the kingdom of God is very narrow. If we stick to that path and endure to the end we shall be chosen by Christ to take part in the resurrection of the saints. Only then can we enter and inherit all things that the Father has prepared for us. Cannot claim the prize before we finish the race, but walk towards it as faithful children willing to make it to the other side despite all the thorns and temptations and learn to overcome them. The race is not over yet, and when it is, if we are found faithful we will be born again of the spirit. Born again, not of the flesh, but of spirit.

    #845466
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

    You: Our bodies are just houses we live in, and God has given us all a house as he pleases already . When we die these bodies turn back to dust from which they came, but when they are resurrected by regeneration of the holy spirit, we will have them again, just like it say, “it” is sown in weakness, “it” is raised in power, notice the “it” there is not changed to a different “it’. Why because the body raised is exactly the same as the one that died,. The same applies with a grain of wheat or any seek, it reproduces itself, not something else x as you suppose.

     

    Me: NO GENE:

    1 Cor 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly…

    2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:

    Me: Our new bodies come from heaven, not the ones we presently have.

     

    1 Cor 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but BARE (1131:naked) GRAIN, it may chance of wheat, or of some OTHER grain (seed):

    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his SEED remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

    Me: When we are born of God, God’s seed is in us. The “some other seed” in 1 Cor 15:37 is the of the holy spirit.

    https://biblehub.com/greek/1131.htm

    Me: Notice “bare grain” in verse 37.  Click on the link above. “bare” means naked. Thus we shed our earthly bodies of the seed of the flesh for new bodies of the seed of the holy spirit so we would not be found naked.

    2 Cor 5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

    1 Cor 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed (2848) his own body…42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised (1453:appears) a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

    Me: Natural bodies are of the seed of the flesh, spiritual bodies are of the seed of the holy spirit. Yes Gene, the first “it” refers to the same “it” in the second part of verse 43. Looking at all the scriptures I have presented, “it” in the first part must be body like the “it” in the second part, but not both parts natural bodies. “It” in the first part refers to the natural bodies that we sow. “It” in the second part is the new bodies God gives us.

    https://biblehub.com/greek/1453.htm
    4 To raise up, produce, cause to appear;

    Me: So Gene, tell me how the scriptures I have present bolsters your case that we receive the same physical bodies glorified.

    #845471
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

    You: I will give you my understanding of what spirit is seening you are unable to, which explains a lot.A Spirit is a cognasity of things, it gives us our intelligence about things, it comes in types and kind, like clean and unclean spirits, It is invisible can not be seen, like the wind, or some vapors, . Jesus said this, when a unclean spirit leaves a man it goes about in “arid” places looking for rest. A spirit with out a body to live in is looking for a body to dwell in, it can return back into the body it came from,if that body is not occupied and can bring others with it, and if that happen the last state of that man will be worse then the first state.

     

    Me: Gene, I though you said a spirit cannot exist without a body—now you are saying a spirit can search for a body. So think, a spirit can live outside a body.

    John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

    1 Tim 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, INVISIBLE, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amien

    Me: God is invisible spirit. He has existed without a body.

    Romans 8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the MIND of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

    Me: The Father’s mind of the spirit is God. All will have the same one holy spirit in them.

    .
    You: Jesus is not a spirit, he has spirit “in” him. The seven spirits of the living God as well as the seven horns (powers) , which he shall rule this earth wCol 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature.

    Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express (exact) image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

    John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him…

     

    Me: Christ’s MIND of the holy spirit is the exact image of his Father’s. He is foremost a spirit.

    2 Cor 3:17 Now THE LORD (KURIOS)  IS THAT SPIRIT: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

    Me: Actually, the MIND OF SPIRIT is the individual in it (Romans 8:27, Eph 4:23). In the end, we all become of one holy spirit. There will be many minds in one spirit.

    #845472
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

    You: There is NO SPIRIT “BODY”, ONLY A SPRITUAL PHYSICAL BODY. which is a physical body sustained by the Spirit of God, that is the body we will have, that is the “body” Jesus now has it is a spritual “body”.

    Me: Another bogus statement you: Please explain the below scriptures in light of what you just said.

    1Cor 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh…40 There are also celestial bodies,…41 another glory of the STARS: for one STAR differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    Rev 22:16 I am the root and the offspring of David, and the BRIGHT and morning STAR.

    Me: He is not a flesh and bone being.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/daniel/12-3.htm
    Dan 12:3 (NIV) Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the STARS for ever and ever.

    Matt 23:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

     

    Me: Gene, explain how we can have a physical body in the kingdom of God and shine like the sun at noonday.

     

    You: God spoke throught the mouth of Jesus , and said” “destory this temple and in three days I shall raise it up.”

    Me: The mind of the Father is the express exact image in the spirit mind of his Son as explained above. The humanity of Christ spoke these words from his spirit mind. Since his spirit mind is the expressed copy of his Father, the words he spoke is as if it came from the Father. They are in perfect synchronize with each other and are DE FACTO the same mind. Still the Father is greater than the Son and the reproduction is not as great as the original.

    John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine (Christ’s spirit mind), and shall shew it unto you. 15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    #845473
     Truthcomber 
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    Gene:

     

     

    You: Spirit are forces that cause us to think, they come in types and kinds, clean and unclean, they cause us to move in a direction by the cognisity’s the input into our minds.

    Me: The spirit is the HIGHWAY of exchange of the minds and hearts in it, not the other way around.

    Eph 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

    Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

    Me: Spirit comes from the mind.

    Romans 5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

    Me: The holy spirit empowers us by the will of the mind of our heavenly Father.

     

    1 Cor 2:11 For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.

    Me: The thoughts of his mind are relayed through the holy spirit. His holy spirit is the CONDUIT of his thoughts.

    Further, God creates all things from the thoughts of his mind.

    Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

    Me: The Word pre-existed and became flesh or one with flesh. Christ now represents the full word of God.

    THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF THE MIND OF GOD REMEMBERS THINGS FROM ETERNITY AS IF IT ALWAYS EXISTED. In this sense, Christ pre-existed

    The seven spirits of God: There is only one spirit but with different aspects in it—at least seven. The spirit of fear and worship is a part of the spirit of God. It is a gift from God for us to draw each other closer. The spirit is the conduit of communication between all. It is the conduit for all creativity. The Messiah’s thoughts are in the Messiah and us through the holy spirit.

    #845474
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

     

    THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF THE MIND OF GOD REMEMBERS THINGS FROM ETERNITY AS IF IT ALWAYS EXISTED. In this sense, Christ pre-existed

    #845484
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi All,

     

    I am going to change the last post:

    from: ” THE EXPRESS IMAGE OF THE MIND OF GOD REMEMBERS THINGS FROM ETERNITY AS IF IT ALWAYS EXISTED. In this sense, Christ pre-existed

    to: The IMAGE OF GOD EXISTED FROM ETERNITY and is the Expression of God.  The image of God existed as the WORD OF GOD and was responsible for all creation and revelation.  It still is.  It is the image of the MIND OF GOD.

    John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word WAS God. 2 The same was in the beginning WITH God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    Me: The Word of God is the image of God and existed from eternity. “With” shows subordination as the Father or God is greater than his image, but both are ONE:

    Mark 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; YHWH our God is one YHWH:

     

    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh (me: or made one with the fleshly mind of the Messiah), and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the ONLY begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth…18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

     

     

     

     

    #845489
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi Gene

    The Spiritual body of the believers and Jesus Christ.

    You: There is NO SPIRIT “BODY”, ONLY A SPRITUAL PHYSICAL BODY. which is a physical body sustained by the Spirit of God, that is the body we will have, that is the “body” Jesus now has it is a spritual “body”.

    Me :You are the object of creation. So is every other son and daughter of Adam. Each of us is a child of God created in His image. You continue to live because God wills it to be so — moment to moment, heartbeat by heartbeat, breath upon breath.  1 At some time in the future your life will end, your heart will take its last beat, your breath will cease, you will lose consciousness, and you shall die. Your body will begin its decomposition to dust, your spirit returns to God, and your soul ceases to exist until you are resurrected. If you believed that Jesus was resurrected from the dead and that He is your Savior, 2 then your next conscious moment, your next conscious realization will be amazing. If you hold fast to your profession of faith (Hebrews 10:23), Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. then this is your future.

    Every human being will be resurrected to a fleshly mortal body, some to a resurrection of life, presumably you, me, and all believers, and the rest to judgment (John 5:28–29)Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.. 3 Jesus was resurrected to the flesh before He received His immortal Spirit body. 4You too will be resurrected to the flesh. But almost immediately you will notice air rushing past your naked body. That sensation will only last a moment and you may not even notice it, because “in the twinkling of an eye … we shall be changed.” Changed from what to what? This is easy to know. We shall be changed from corruption (our mortal resurrected body of flesh) to incorruption (our immortal spiritual body). Read the full passage carefully:

    “Behold, I show you a mystery; We [you, me, and all believers, 1 Corinthians 15:1–4 above] shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
    Then the apostle Paul explains why this must occur:

    “For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.’”1 Corinthians 15:51–54
    You (and all believers) will be resurrected to mortality so you can take that first breath. Then you will almost immediately be changed from your resurrected mortal bodies into your immortal spirit body, just as Jesus Christ was raised from the dead to a mortal body, then He put on immortality. How can we know He was raised with a mortal body? Well, when Mary Magdalene met the resurrected Christ at the tomb, He had not yet ascended to His Father. He instructed her not to touch Him.

    “Jesus said unto her, ‘Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but [you] go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.’”
    John 20:17
    Jesus could not approach God the Father in a body of mortal flesh because“flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 15:50). We are also told that His own blood of sacrifice was put on the altar in heaven (Hebrews chapter 9) which is before the Mercy Seat, the throne of God. At some time after He spoke with Mary, Christ ascended. During this passage into heaven He was given His immortal and incorruptible body.

    In this matter, as in most everything regarding salvation, the events of Christ’s resurrection show that He is the example for you and me in our resurrections. But there are differences. Christ sprinkled His own blood upon the altar. You and I will not do that because He did it for you and for me:

    “But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered inonce into the holy place, having obtained eternal [eonian, age-lasting] redemption for us.

    For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, whothrough the eternal[eonian] Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?”

    Hebrews 9:11–12, 14
    Christ was by then immortal and performing His actions “through the eonian spirit” when He sprinkled His own blood on the altar to complete and validate His sacrifice. Then He approached the throne of God, “to appear in the presence of God for us” (in Greek “the face of God,” Hebrews 9:24), something impossible for a man of flesh. Christ’s sacrifice was accepted and He was invited to sit at the right Hand of God the Father in Heaven (Hebrews 1:3). You, because of your status of being “in Christ” are figuratively seated there also. After all, as it says in Hebrews 9:24, He did it “for us.”

    Let us look in greater Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. at what will happen at the moment of your resurrection. A great deal will happen in that split second.

    As above, in  your resurrection you will not wait long to “put on” your immortality. That change will occur “in the twinkling of an eye.”This will be a great blessing because, although your resurrected mortal body will be healed, you will be naked. Your nakedness will be for the briefest time and then immortality will wrap like a cloak around you. 5 You will have a new body. With total and perfect memory you will be able to recall that moment forever.

    Why will God resurrect you to a physical body and then have your body dissol I’ve into your spiritual body? God’s creation gives us the reason. Your physical body is like the kernel of a seed. When the seed germinates, the material in the seed dies and is absorbed into the plant. 6

    “But someone will be protesting, ‘How are the dead being roused? Now with what body are they coming?’ Imprudent one! What you are sowing is not being vivified[quickened, made alive] if it should not be dying. And, what you are sowing, you are not sowing the body which shall come to be, but a naked kernel, perchance of wheat or some of the rest. Yet God is giving it a body according as He wills, and to each of the seeds its own body.”

    1 Corinthians 15:35–38 Concordant Version
    Note again the word “naked,” translated “bare” in the King James Version.

    Our present physical bodies of flesh literally groan to put on our immortality. I am not just talking about aging. Everyone groans to put on immortality:

    “For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: If so be that being cloth we shall not be found naked. For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. Now he that has wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also has given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.”2 Corinthians 5:2–5
    The immortality you will “put on” (1 Corinthians 15:53–54) shall cause your old physical body to disappear, just like the kernel of the seed seems to disappear when the plant begins to sprout. Jesus uses the same figure in John 12:23–25. The seed must die when the plant comes forth. At your resurrection God will do that for you almost instantly. In fact, your spirit body is waiting for you at this moment.

    You have an invisible seed within you as well. You are at the present moment:

    “Being born again, not of corruptible seed[your body of flesh], but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever [permanently].”

    1 Peter 1:23
    The seed that Peter is referring to (and Paul refers to in 1 Corinthians 15:38 above) is a seed within you that is incorruptible, has no relation to flesh at all. God’s Holy Spirit melds with the “spirit of man”within you (Proverbs 20:27; Ecclesiastes 3:21; Zechariah 12:1; 1 Corinthians 2:11). “The spirit itself is testifying together with our spiritthat we are children of God” (Romans 8:16, Concordant Version). The two spirits blend as one within you at this present moment. 7 That is the incorruptible seed. But at present that seed is still connected to your soul. Except for a very, very few who will be alive when Christ returns (1 Thessalonians 4:15–17), you must die to receive your body of spirit.

    Your New Spirit Body
    In the moments following your “putting on” immortality and incorruption you will be filled with God’s Holy Spirit surging through your body giving you life and energy and a feeling of power you never felt before. You may even “breathe” God’s Holy Spirit (John 20:22). 8 Your body will be composed of spirit, but you will be able to form flesh and bones, just as Christ’s body is presently spirit, but He manifested as flesh and bones when He chose (Luke 24:39). As strange as it will be, your body will seem familiar. This is because your body will be specially designed for you:

    “In my Father’s house are many mansions[abodes]: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a placefor you, I will comeagain, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also.”

    John 14:2–3
    What do mansions and abodes have to do with your body? Read what the apostle Paul writes. He seems to be referring to Jesus’ statement in John’s Gospel:

    “While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal[temporary]; but the things which are not seen are eternal[eonian]. For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle [our body] were dissolved,we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal[eonian] in the heavens.”

    2 Corinthians 4:18–5:1
    Christ’s body after the resurrection was not only familiar to Him, it was also familiar and recognizable to His apostles and disciples. They were able to interact with Him, touch and feel His wounds (Luke 24:33–43; John 20:19–29), and eat with Him (John 21:1–14; Acts 10:41), although He hid his identity to the men on the road to Emmaus to teach them important lessons (Luke 24:13–35). When He wished to be recognized, they knew who He was. Your body will be able to do the same. You will be able to go through solid objects as Christ did (John 20:19) and go through the air (Acts 1:6–11). As you rise at your resurrection you will notice things around you. You will notice the angels who took you into the air to change your body:

    “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: … Andhe shall send his angelswith a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”Matthew 24:30–31 (cf. John 11:52)
    You will be able to see the angels as they are. They will no longer be invisible to you. “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his saints”(Jude 1:14). They may look like humans when physical, but they will not be like you. You will be able to know and understand the differences. Angels have their own bodies, substance, and spirit which will be different from yours (Hebrews 1:16). First Corinthians 15:38–44 relates to such kinds of differences, although the context does not specifically address angels.

    Hebrews chapters 1 and 2 do specifically address the subject of angels and their difference from Christ and, by extension, their differences from you as a future resurrected child of God. Apparently the audience and readers of the Book of Hebrews (many scholars think it was a sermon written down by a secretary) misunderstood some basic facts about the relationship of angels and Christ. They were badly misinformed about angels. Some thought that Jesus was an angel. It is made clear in Hebrews that no angel ever was, nor can ever be, a son of God. Certainly Christ Jesus, the Son of God was not an angel (Hebrews 1:5). 9

    You as a Child of God
    Consider your legal position relative to God and Christ. Legally you were “in Christ” before the foundation of the world. 10 At this present moment, if you have God’s Spirit within you, then you are “born again” now. 11At this moment in our pre-resurrection life, God labels and considers us “children of God.” I emphasize this important point because it means that you are a newborn, an infant in the sight of God. Your infancy has a direct bearing on what will happen to you after your resurrection from the dead.

    You and all believers are called “children of God” if we have the Spirit of God within us (sometimes called “sons and daughters of God” 2 Corinthians 6:18)“I will be a Father to you,
    And you shall be My sons and daughters,Says the LordAlmighty.”. 12 This is not a metaphor. You are a now born son or daughter of God if you have God’s Spirit within you. John says this several times in several ways:

    “If you know that he is righteous, you know that every one that does righteousness is born of him [now].

    Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called thesons of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not. Beloved, now are we the sons of God, andit does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.”1 John 2:29–3:3
    You are not a potential child of God. You will not achieve your status as a child of God after your resurrection from the dead. You are presently a newborn child of God:

    “Forasmuch as you know that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, … But [you were redeemed] with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: …

    [you] Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. …

    Being born again [now], not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible[seed], by the word of God, which lives and abides for ever [aion, for the age]. …

    Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, As newborn babes [now, at the present moment], desire the sincere milk of the word, that you may grow thereby.”

    1 Peter 1:18–19, 21, 23, 2:1–2
    Peter’s is saying that you (by extension) are “born again” at the present time (from incorruptible “seed,” by the way). Then Peter describes you as one of the “newborn babes”desiring milk. Paul says the same:

    “For whoever are being led by God’s spirit,these are sons of God. For you did not get slavery’s spirit to fear again, but you got the spirit of sonship, in which we are crying, ‘Abba, Father!’The spirit itself is testifying together with our spirit that we are children of God [at this present moment]. If so be that we are suffering together, that we should be glorified together also. …

    that the creation itself, also, shall be freed from the slavery of corruption into the glorious freedom of the children of God.”Romans 8:14–17, 21, Concordant Version
    What Happens to You Next?
    After your transition to immortality you will see Christ in the air along with thousands (maybe millions, who knows?) of other believers since the time of Adam and Eve.

    “Now we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who are reposing, lest you may sorrow according as the rest, also, who have no expectation. For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus also, those who are put to repose, will God, through Jesus, lead forth together with Him.For the Lord Himself will be descending from heaven with a shout of command, with the voice of the Chief Messenger, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ shall be rising first, Thereupon we, the living who are surviving, shall at the same time be snatched away together with them in clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And thus shall we always be together with the Lord. So that, console one another with these words.”1 Thessalonians 4:13–18 Concordant Version
    You will be flying, without a conveyance like a throne or cherubim. You will not have a horse although Christ will be riding a horse upon His return, and so will the army following Him:

    “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war. … And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.”Revelation 19:11–14
    This event will commence the Kingdom of God on earth. The physical earth will undergo a rest of a 70 year jubilee. You, along with all other resurrected children of God, will receive 70 years of training. 13 The early part of the training will be simple. What will you learn during this new beginning of your resurrection life?

    The ekklesia at present,which includes you, is nurtured by Christ. God’s word is washing, cleansing, and perfecting you. You do not realize it any more than a newborn understands what a parent does when he or she cares for, feeds, cleanses, diapers, and puts clean clothes on that infant. Look at what Christ does for His ekklesia:

    “That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church[ekklesia], not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. … For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourishes and cherishes it, even as the Lord [nourishes and cherishes] the church[ekklesia]: For we are members of his body,[members] of his flesh, and [members] of his bones.”

    Ephesians 5:26–27. 26  that He might [a]sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish.
    Some of our knowledge about God is shown through creation (Romans 1:20)For since the creation of the world His invisibleattributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and [a]Godhead, so that they are without excuse,. A review of early human development may apply to your post-resurrection experience during the 70 year education. At your resurrection you will transition from infancy to a new status of childhood. All the work and learning and character that you developed in this physical life will have its fulfillment. The apostle Paul’s purpose as a teacher was to bring all members of the ekklesia of God to maturity. The fulfillment of that maturity will not occur prior to your resurrection. It is a goal. Paul said that he worked …

    “For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ.”Ephesians 4:12–14

    We will be raised with a physical body. Like Jesus Christ.Then we will be changed from a physical body to our Spiritual body, like Jesus, That change will occur “in the twinkling of an eye.”

    Me: Your wrong again Gene.

    God bless

    #845496
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 8
    • Total replies 1,118

    Hi Anthony,

     

    Your post was Very good and through. Yes, The Word pre-existed as God and became one with man. I disagree with you on one point however.

     

    You: Let us look in greater detail:
    John 5:28 Do not marvel at this; for the HOUR IS COMING in which ALL who are in the graves WILL HEAR His voice. 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation at what will happen at the moment of your resurrection. A great deal will happen in that split second.

    Me: The saints are not resurrected at the same moment as those not saved yet.

    John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and NOW IS, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE.

    Me: Here in John 5:25 the hour or time is eminent. This time is coming in the short term, at Pentecost when the righteous dead receive the baptism of the holy spirit. In John 528, ALL will hear the voice of the Messiah. This is the rest of the dead. The incorrigible will be cleanst in the LAKE OF FIRE, who is the lamb whose sacrifice applies to ALL.

    Also, “ALL”  will not receive their new bodies at Christ’s return—only the present church age saints and the saints of the OT will.

    1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise (450:APPEAR) first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

    https://biblehub.com/greek/450.htm
    450. anistémi
    2. to arise, APPEAR stand forth; of kings, prophets, priests, leaders of insurgents: Acts 5:36; Acts 7:18. middle, Romans 15:12; Hebrews 7:11, 15. of those about to enter into conversation or dispute with anyone, Luke 10:25; Acts 6:9; or to undertake some business, Acts 5:6; or to attempt something against others, Acts 5:17. Hence, ἀναστῆναι ἐπί τινα to rise up against anyone:

    Me: The “dead in Christ” are those that have COMPLETELY died to their human nature. This occurs at their physical deaths.

    Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

    Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear then shall ye also APPEAR with him in glory.

    Me: Those who have died in Christ and have resurrected from the dead spiritually will receive their new bodies first. They will appear first. Those alive physically at Christ’s return must first die physically  and then resurrected with new bodies.

    Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once (once for all) to die , but after this the judgment:

    https://biblehub.com/greek/530.htm
    530. hapax
    Usage: once, once for all.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us,…

    Me: God’s church is judged now.

    2 Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

    Me: The saints in this church age will resurrect spiritually at their deaths. Otherwise, 1 Thes 4:16 contradicts John 5:25 and 2 Cor 5:8. And John 5:25 would contradict John 5:28.

    Webster’s Bible Translation
    Prov 25:11 A word fitly spoken is like apples of gold in pictures of silver.

    Me: That one word is the definition of 450. anistémi in 1 Thes 4:16 as “appears”. Then everything ties together.

    This does not diminish from the fact that in the end, we agree that the saints will have new bodies that shine like the sun. This is an important agreement.  The timing is not as important

    #845499
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi TC

    You said: The saints are not resurrected at the same moment as those not saved yet.

    You said: Me: The “dead in Christ” are those that have COMPLETELY died to their human nature. This occurs at their physical deaths.

    Me:I agree.

    You:Col.3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear then shall ye also APPEAR with him in glory.

    You:** Those who have died in Christ and have itresurrected from the dead spirituallywill receive their new bodies first. They will appear first. Those alive physically at Christ’s return must first die physically  and then resurrected with new bodies.

    Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once (once for all) to die , but after this the judgment:

    https://biblehub.com/greek/530.htm
    530. hapax
    Usage: once, once for all.

    1 Peter 4:17 For the time is come that judgmentmust begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us,…

    You: God’s church is judged now.  Me: I agree, we go before Christ for rewards be gold, silver or precious stone or wood,hay or stubble

    Me:** I’ll have to look at this a little closer. I see we’re your coming from,we must all die, but It say they that remains (alive) will be changed, I would think seconds after the dead are raised,and I speak of the just at His coming.

    God bless TC

    “You need not that any man teach you:” 1 John 2:27  All you need to do is to ask for a lot of help from HIM.

     

     

     

     

    #845500
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi TC

    You said: Me: The saints are not resurrected at the same moment as those not saved yet.

    Me: yes I agree, the scriptures I ues didn’t show that the resurrection we’re separated, the first for the just a d at the lake of fire,( the white throne judgment) for the unjust. All will be saved before Jesus Christ turned the Kingdom over to His Father.

    Scriptures I used: John 5:28–29)Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.

    God bless 🙏

    #845502
     Anthony 
    Participant
    • Topics started 0
    • Total replies 960

    Hi All

    The Spiritual body of God.

    God is very similar to human beings. Or to put it another way, that human beings are very close to being like God. The two really can be equated to one another and eventually they will be very closely identified indeed.

    The Purpose of Salvation
    The very message of salvation, which we have here in the Scripture, given in the New Testament, involved mankind becoming like God. In fact, mankind is not just becoming “like” God, but will become members of the very family of the living God in heaven, and the fruit we normally associate with God: love, joy, peace, and all forms of goodness.

    Now those are psychological points. They are emotional points. Many of us have little difficulty in finding some type of an attachment of these things with the living God in heaven. It may be nebulous to us in many ways, in just exactly how these things can be attributed to God, and how He can exercise them, because we have never seen God with our eyes, that is, you and I have not. 2 Some people in vision have claimed to have seen God, and in the Bible we see that certain people have indeed seen Him in vision.

    Normally when visionaries see God, they see someone who looks like a human being, who sits on a throne, or stands above a throne, or has some kind of majesty associated with Him, but almost in every circumstance, we find what is called an anthropomorphic type of an image. “Anthropomorphic” is a fancy term which simply means that God appears like a human being. 3 In almost all of the visionary experiences of the Bible, both in the Old and the New Testaments, we find that certainly was the case.

    You know it is possible for some of us to sit on the right hand of the Father in heaven, just as Jesus Christ is described in the Bible as sitting on the right hand of the Father in heaven at this present moment? The visions give an anthropomorphic type of a description of God. This is clearly understandable as far as the Scripture is concerned, but how many people are there in the world who really believe that God is in that fashion?

    God Is Spirit
    While we can understand and accept that these good principles mentioned in the fruits of the Spirit, can be associated with God, when it comes down to actually believing in the bodily composition of God — that is what it is — there is where many of us stumble, because we read in the Scripture that God is spirit.

    God is spirit. In the King James Version, in John 4:24, it says that God is “a” spirit. It can be rendered that way, and that is absolutely true. But at the same time, God is spirit And normally when you and I associate the word “spirit” with something, we think of a non-body type of experience, a relationship that is spiritual, emotional, psychological, but it is not in a sense, fleshly, or material, or something of that nature.

    Yes, God is correctly defined as being “spirit.” But He also is described as having a body. How can we bring these two terms into compatibility? That is what we need to look at in the Scripture. By the way, it is quite easy to do so.

    The Nature of Life
    We are here on this earth, all of us humans, to experience life for the 70, 80, 90, or 100 years in which we live. It is a life of trial. It is not intended for us to experience complete happiness, and joy, and perfection in this life. If we did, we would never experience good orbad. We desire to have good, but not the bad. The universe is made up of a lot of space out there, with millions of galaxies scattered throughout this big, big universe.

    In this universe we have God. The Bible tells us that Christ Jesus, under the auspices of God the Father, created the entirety of the universe, of which our world, this Earth, is just a minor speck, just a tiny part. But it is very big to us. This world is material and we are material. That is true. At the same time, the God whom we read about in the Bible is called the God of power and authority. As I said before, most of the visionary experiences that we see explained in the Bible about God or Christ, even in their glory, describe them in anthropomorphic terms. That is, they look like human beings, or better yet, we look like they do.

    How can it be that a spiritual being such as God is described as having a bodily composition? If God the Father and Christ (in His glory at present) each indeed possess a bodily composition, what exactly is it that they possess? That is what we need to know. Once we begin to realize what the biblical teaching on these things happens to be, we will come to appreciate the salvation that we have in Christ, which was given to us, in actual fact, “before the foundation of this world,” according to Ephesians 1:4 and 2 Timothy 1:9 (“before the world began”).

    It is through various stages that mankind collectively will be exalted into the position of being like God, that is what human salvation is all about. That is what our destiny actually is.

    But God is described as being spirit. Look at the verse in the Gospel of John, again in the King James Version, and it could be this way rendered, perfectly, in the Greek: “God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth” (John 4:24). The article in front of the word “spirit,” where it says “God is a Spirit,” that is an indefinite article. In the King James Version, it is italicized. That means that it does not occur in the original Greek. It actually reads “God is spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

    First Understanding of “Angel”
    The first impression an individual would get from this — I am talking about an educated individual, an intelligent one who has considerable literary experience, experience with life, and a mature adult — you would tend to think this does not describe a bodily experience for God. And rightly so, in this one Scripture alone, because it says God is Spirit. And they, though, that worship Him — which includes all humans, and you might include the angels in there, but for this context here, let us just look at the human side of things, because that is what Christ was talking about there: “… and, they [that is humans] who worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”

    It is rather interesting that all of a sudden we begin to get a little bit of understanding about the Spirit in association with the Father, if we slow down and look at what that Scripture says, and pay attention to it. Because it says here that we humans are very fleshly, are we not? Look at yourself in a mirror. You see the image of yourself. You are material. I am material. But we ourselves have a spirit associated with us. That is what it says in the Gospel of John. We also have the ability to express truth. We know in other areas we can express falsehoods, but we can also express truth. It says here “God is Spirit.” And humans who worship Him, “must worship Him in Spirit and in truth”(John 4:23–24).

    So, humans then are given a spiritual essence, a spiritual existence that allows them to worship God “in spirit and in truth.” You and I are very material at the present time. However, we do have a mind which isassociatedwiththeSpiritbecausewehavebeengivenGod’sHoly Spirit. When Christ was explaining to Nicodemus, one of the great rabbis of the Sanhedrin of the Jews back at that time, what the Spirit was all about, He said the Spirit is like the wind. The Spirit is like the “pneuma.” The “pneuma” is the Spirit. You can see the rustling of the leaves in the trees by the force of the wind. If the force of the wind is gentle, it is a very pleasant experience. If the wind, however, is of hurricane force, which is above 75 miles an hour, it is very ferocious, and rampaging. In a tornado, where you can find wind speeds up to almost 300 miles an hour, it is highly destructive in a very narrow area. We are all familiar with that concept.

    So even the fact that the Spirit is connected to the wind or to the air, the air itself can be weighed here on this Earth. Move your hands quickly. You will feel the air going through them. The air above us is all on top of you. Most of it goes up about 50 miles or so. Above that the air gets very thin. This canopy of air around this earth is known as the atmosphere. Though wind is compared to the Spirit, it actually has weight. Wind (like Spirit) is actually quite substantial. If you are at sea level, the air exerts 14, almost 15 pounds per square inch of pressure upon the human body at sea level, at about the temperature of 50 degrees Fahrenheit.

    Now all these things can be measured. When you come to the word “spirit,” Jesus Himself said the spirit is like the wind, and the wind is highly substantial. Remember, in John 4:24 it says “God is Spirit.” You would at first think this is intangible, but if you will recall we have already read what He said in John chapter 3, before He gets to this section. He is showing that the Spirit is very tangible indeed. However, it is in a different dimension than you and I are used to, because you cannot see the Spirit. You cannot see the air. You cannot see the movement of the wind, but you can see the result of the movement of the wind, that is, the rustling of the leaves, or the hurricane force winds carrying debris in the air, or, tornado even worse. You can see the result. But the air itself you cannot see. It is just in a different dimension.

    We read in the Bible that no human can see God and live (Exodus 33:20). Now, God definitely exists. But when it comes to appraising Him, or, seeing Him in a way which we are used to, He lives in a different type of bodily dimension at the present time. (We will see that He does have a body.) His body is made up of Spirit. It is made up of spiritual elements. Those elements are as substantial and as material to another spirit being as you, a fleshly being, are tangible and material to another fleshly being.

    God has the capability of actually transforming Himself from a spiritual essence into a material one, if He wishes to, and look just exactly like you and I do. He can take His spiritual body and turn it into a material body. He could do this in a miraculous way as far as we humans are concerned, but really it is only miraculous because you and I do not know how to do it. If you and I knew how to do it, it would not be miraculous at all, would it? But God knows how, Jesus Christ knows how, but they live in a different dimension than we do. That dimension is a spiritual one.

    The spiritual dimension that they live in is very substantial to them. Every time that we read of God (beginning in the first chapters of Genesis all the way to the last chapter of Revelation), you find Him described in terms we humans can understand, and those terms are in the anthropomorphic sense and type of appearance. This means that God when He does make an appearance to human beings, He appears to us as a human. He appears as a male human, as a matter of fact, not as a female, but as a male human.

    So we find that the word “spirit,” though God is a Spirit, even we have a portion of our existence in the spiritual realm as well, even though when you look in the mirror you see a very materialistic individual standing in front of you, a reflection of yourself:

    “God is Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit[just like He is] and in truth.”

    John 4:24
    So you and God, myself and God, all humans and God, have some common characteristics that are associated with each of us. That is what we need to understand. We are very similar to one another in one way. However, God is Spirit. Does He have a body? We will see in a moment that He does, according to the Scripture.

    Other Spiritual Beings
    Now, since God is a Spirit, what other beings in the universe are described as being spiritual entities? What other individuals have a spiritual existence like God, very similar to God, yet different from God in some ways, but at the same time they are described as being spirits?

    Do you realize that all angels in the Bible are described as being spirits? Indeed they are. They are all spirits. They are spirits like God, who happens to be a spirit. Now do angels manifest themselves to human beings? Why, in the Old Testament, we find various examples of that actually taking place. The same thing in the New Testament. The apostle Paul said in the Book of Hebrews that people living in the 1st century had met angels before, unawares, not even realizing that they had met some of them, when they thought that they were talking to a natural human being, here on this Earth (Hebrews 13:2).

    Angels have the ability, though they are spirits, to transform themselves if God so allows it into a materialistic type of a body which looks exactly like man does, like human beings.

    Now the only angels that are described in the Bible having wings are those that are in allegorical context. That means the wings that are on the back of angels are there to show, in a symbolic allegorical sense, that they are capable of journeying through the sky like a bird, you see, without having any type of a vehicle, other than themselves, to do that. So in symbol, they are given wings, but in fact, every time they are described in a pragmatic sense, you will find that they are always described as looking like human beings, like men, let us see where they are described as spirits, just as God is, using the same words. Go and read Psalm 103. Psalms 103, 104, 105, and 106 — those four psalms all are linked together, though they are separate psalms, the subjects of these four psalms are all linked together. In fact, Psalm 103 gives an introduction to Psalms 104, 105, and 106. The introduction starts in heaven, describing God and some of His characteristics. Near the end of Psalm 103 begins a history of how God created the heavens and the earth and how the angels were there helping Him in the creation of this earth.

    Then go right on to read Psalm 104. It is a separate psalm but it was sung in context just after 103, in the temple at Jerusalem. It carries on with the same story. Then it says about the angels themselves. Who are these angels? It says that they are like the winds. They are spirits and they have power and authority to do certain things. 4 We need to know about these angels. These angels are spiritual beings and they can transform themselves into material beings if God so allows them to do so. When we find them described in the Bible, having a relationship with man, on the same level as mankind, we find that they look like human beings.

    Angels with Abraham and Lot
    We even find in one section of Scripture, in the 18th chapter of the Book of Genesis, when YHWH (the very name of God) Himself with two angels met Abraham. They looked like ordinary human beings. In fact, they talked to Abraham, went into his tent, sat down. Sarah was able to make dinner for all of them, and they all sat down and ate.

    In Genesis chapter 19, we find that those two angels who were there with YHWH, talking to Abraham, went down finally to Sodom, of Sodom and Gomorrah. They met Lot, who was Abraham’s nephew, at the gate of the city of Sodom. Lot invited them into his house just like ordinary human beings. So much did they look like ordinary men, that the very wicked men of Sodom, who also saw these men, wanted to possess them in an illegal sexual way. That is how closely resembling human beings these angels actually appeared to be.

    That was, however, a characteristic of angels understood by the people of the whole Sodom area, along with the people of Gomorrah and those of the other cities of the plain. The angels saw this wickedness of these men, which had been going on consistently for years, and they said that they were going to wipe these towns off the surface of the earth. You know the whole story, how Lot, his wife, and daughters finally left with the angels, and then the angels brought down fire out of heaven that destroyed the entire region of Sodom and Gomorrah, in the northern section of the Dead Sea.

    And I assure you — I have been down there many, many times — that whole region today, though it was like the Garden of Eden before, now it is like the surface of the moon, for all practical purposes. Those angels along with YHWH Himself were serious.

    Back to Psalms 103–106
    When angels appear to mankind, though they are known as spirits, as winds as far as God is concerned, when they change themselves into an appearance that can be discerned by mankind,they look just like you and I do. Psalm 103 is that introductory psalm, and look at what it says here, near the end where the creation scene is given:

    “YHWH has prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom rules over all. Bless YHWH, you his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word. Bless you YHWH all you hosts[that is, the armies of heaven] and you ministers of his [he is talking about the angels] that do his pleasure. Bless YHWH, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless YHWH, O my soul.”

    Psalm 103:19
    That is the end of Psalm 103. But go right on to Psalm 104 because the context is the same. He is giving a historical rendition here, leading up to the time of Abraham and beyond. It says:

    “Bless YHWH, O my soul. O Lord my God, you are very great; you are clothed with honor and majesty. Who covers yourself with light as with a garment …”Psalm 104:1–2
    That is how God appears, in resplendent light. YHWH clothes Himself “with light as with a garment” just like you would put on a garment, for example a coat. When it is cold outside you put a coat on. You cover yourself. That is how God covers Himself, with resplendent light that shines forth from His very being:

    “who stretches out the heavens like a curtain: who lays the beams of his chambers in the waters: who makes the clouds his chariot: who walks upon the wings of the wind: Who makes his angels spirits; his ministers [that is the angels] a flaming fire…”

    Psalm 104:2–4
    The angels can also appear like a flaming fire like a great light. They can be like the wind. They can journey on the winds. They are great and powerful creatures that God has made. God is spirit. The angels are spirits. But every time God is described, He is described as having a body. When angels are described in appearances to men, they are described as having bodies.

    We have been reading here in Psalms 103 and 104 a description of the creation of God of the earth, and of the heavens, and how the angels helped God in this marvelous work that we see surrounding us. We are part of that creation by God.

    These angels were called the “ministers of God.” In Psalm 104, He comes down to the place of calling them “spirits” and a “flaming fire.” Psalm 104:5 talks of YHWH:“Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever[for the age].” It goes on to describe the creation of various things here on this earth. It goes to describe the flood of Noah, and then the raising up of Abraham. It goes right on through until the time of King David. These Psalms, 103 to 106, should be read together in a single context. They describe here a history of the world, from the creation all the way to the time of King David.

    In the beginning of this creation narrative by King David, we find the angels are described as being spirits. But they are also ministers to do certain things here in this earth. They actually were helping God in the creation. Of course, the power of creation has to be attributed to God. We read in Colossians chapter 1 that it was actually Jesus Christ, working under the authority of God the Father, who created the heavens and the earth. But we are told here in Psalm 103 and 104 that angels were there too, assisting in many ways in the creation as directed by God and Christ. Going on in Psalm 104 you will see the various divisions that were created here on the earth. Furthermore, the angels were put, we find from later descriptions, in charge over various things on this earth. They were known as the principalities and powers, the spiritual powers, that God used to be able to control the entirety of this universe. 6

    When these angels are described, and even when God is described, they are shown in an anthropomorphic sense. I use that word once more to show you what it means. It means “in the appearance of man.”Angels do not normally have wings. In fact, they have no wings at all. But in allegorical or symbolic references in Scripture we find that they are given wings simply to show that they can navigate through the air, through space, without any type of material conveyance helping them to get along in any way.

    This is important for us to understand, because these angels of creation are very much like we are. Yet at the same time, we read in the Scripture that we are destined to become even higher in rank than these angels that are described here. Because these angels, though they are spirits, and God is a spirit, they are not on the same level with God the Father, and the family of Elohim,( Christ and us).

    You and I, however, are described as being on that very level, that very plane of God the Father and Christ Jesus. We are the sons and the daughters of God. We are the children of God. And angels are never described as children of God in the way that we are.

    In fact, in the first two chapters of the Book of Hebrews the apostle Paul makes a definite statement, a definite teaching, that if you are considered a son, or a daughter, of God, that is a special classification like Jesus Christ has, that angels do not fit into that classification. While at present we are a little lower than the angels (compare Psalm 8:5 with Hebrews 2:7, 9), the angels are vastly inferiorto what we will be as members of the family of God.

    But still angels are called “spirits,” and they were present at the physical creation of God of the heavens and the earth. And they were helping God at that time, long before you and I ever came along. When these angels are described later, in the history of the Bible, they are described as being like human beings. I mentioned earlier about the description of angels that we find in the 18thchapter of Genesis.

    Back to Abraham in Genesis
    There is a principle I have given in the past which is a very profound one. The principle is, the first time that you find an entity, or a subject, or a matter being discussed, the first time is usually where you will find the best description in the Scripture of that entity, or that personage.

    We find angels are first mentioned accompanying YHWH Himself  in Genesis chapters 18 and 19:

    “And YHWH appeared unto him [Abraham] in the plains of Mamre[near Hebron in the Palestine area] and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said,

    ‘My Lord, if now I have found favor in your sight, pass not away, I pray you, from your servant: Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree.’”Genesis 18:1–4
    That is exactly what happened. They not only looked like men, but we find that water was fetched for them, and their feet were washed — these three men. One of them was Yahweh, and the other two were the two angels that went down to Sodom and Gomorrah. He says here in verse 5:

    “‘[And] I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort you your hearts; after that you shall pass on [you can go ahead if you want, after you had a good meal]: for therefore are you come to your servant [Abraham]’. And they said, ‘So do, as you have said.’”

    Genesis 18:5
    Go ahead and do it. Now these three men here were actually Yahweh and two angels. They had their feet washed, Sarah cooked a meal for them, and they ate it.

    After the discourse that went on in Genesis 18:16–33 about the destruction of the cities of the plain, here is what we find in chapter 19

    “And there came two angels [the same two angels that were with Yahweh, Abraham, and Sarah] … and they came to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground; And he said, ‘Behold now, my lords, turn in, I pray you, into your servant’s house [he called these angels “lords”], and tarry all night, and wash your feet.’”

    Genesis 19:1–2
    That was the custom in those days to wash the feet of guests, so angels can have their feet washed. It goes on to say in Genesis 19:3: “he made them a feast, and did bake unleavened bread, and they did eat.” Can you imagine? Remember that angels are called “spirits” (Psalm 104:4). YHWH is called a “spirit” (John 4:24). But here they are, manifesting themselves to Abraham, to Lot, to the children of Lot, of Sodom. They all look like men to them. You talk about an anthropomorphic type of appearance, that is exactly what it is, is it not? Now you would wonder, what are they? Are they spiritual beings? Well, Abraham and Lot could touch them; they washed their feet. They could eat material food. This is not an allegory. This is not a vision of any kind. It is never described as being that way. It is a very practical thing.

    So, when you read back here in the first chapter of Genesis, at the creation of Adam and Eve:

    “And God [Elohim] said, ‘Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth.’

    So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him, male and female created he them.”Genesis 1:26–27
    In Genesis chapters 18 and 19 these three that appeared to Abraham, the Lord (YHWH) and the two angels, appeared as men. God also has an image of the female. The female is as much a part of God, but we do not read of them so much in the Scripture as we find the male side. In fact, here in the very beginning of Genesis, we find that the male and the female are both in the image of Elohim, the family of God:“male and female.”

    That is why God appears like a man, or like a human being. Better yet, that is why human beings appear like God. But angels that helped God in the creation appear like man. wl said if you want to know what God is like, just look at the material creation around us. That is Romans in chapter 1. Everywhere you look in nature, you will see the balances, negatives and positives. We are not talking about social matters here. We are talking about physical and spiritual forces that balance each other, working together in a most unique and harmonious way. Human beings here are made in the very image of God. That is most important for us to understand. Yet God Himself (YHWH) at the present moment, though He looks like a human being, He still is a Spirit, and though angels, unless they manifest themselves in a material way, they are spirits, but they look like human beings. This means that spirit must have shape. Spirit must have form. Spirit must have substance of some kind. Though it is spiritual substance, there is the key that all of us need to realize.

    You and I are destined in the resurrection from the dead, to be just like Christ Jesus is at the present time. Christ was our pioneer, who came on this earth to live some 30-odd years, die on a tree of crucifixion, and be resurrected from the dead. After He was resurrected from the dead, how did He appear to the women at the tomb, and to the apostles later on? He appeared as a human being. He appeared just like you and I do. Though He was differently shaped than He had been before, 11still at the same time, He was just like a human being. 12 Every circumstance that we find in the Scripture here shows God the Father, and Christ Jesus, and the angels, and others, even in a spiritual existence, they still appear as human beings.

    Let me give you an example of a council that took place in heaven. The incident is mentioned in First Kings chapter 22. This was at the time of Elijah, though Elijah is not mentioned on this occasion. He was in some other area of Israel at the time.

    A prophet by the name of Micaiah is mentioned, and he was one prophet that King Ahab of Israel did not like. Jehoshaphat, the king of Judah, was visiting with King Ahab of Israel. Now this was the 9th century BC, not long after the kingdom split in two after the death of Solomon.

    Here is Jehoshaphat and Ahab speaking with one another, and Ahab said: “You know there is a town on the other side of the River Jordan that was formerly mine, but the Syrians have taken it over, and I want to get it back. It is named Ramothgilead.”

    Ahab said to Jehoshaphat, because they were both brother Israelites, “Would you help me in securing this land, or this city?” And Jehoshaphat said, “Well, it seems like a noble enterprise, but do we have a prophet from God that will tell us what we should do?” And so, they said, “Well yes, we have around 450 of them up here, as a matter of fact.” And they asked the prophets and they said, “Go up and take Ramothgilead. You would do it in the name of Yahweh.”

    So, with 450 of them saying that, you would imagine that it was okay to do so. But read the story in First Kings chapter 22. One prophet was not originally summoned at the council between Jehoshaphat and Ahab. That prophet was the name of Micaiah. Jehoshaphat said, “Are there any other prophets? I want every one of them.” And Ahab said, “Well, there is one that wasn’t called, but he is always against me.” “Well, what is his name?” “His name is Micaiah.” “Well, I want to see him, too.”

    They sent for Micaiah, and they asked, “Shall we go up to Ramothgilead? Does the Lord want us to go up, or shall we not?” Do you know what Micaiah said? Exactly like the others: “Go on up. And everything will be just fine.”

    This surprised Ahab, because almost invariably Micaiah in the past had said something bad against Ahab, but now he was saying what all the other prophets were saying. Ahab asked, “Well, what is going on here? There is something wrong somewhere.” Micaiah said, “Yes, now I want to tell you the rest of the story.” You can read it in verse 18. It says:

    “And the king of Israel said unto Jehoshaphat, did I not tell you that he[Micaiah] would prophesy no good concerning me, but evil?’ And he said, ‘Hear you therefore the word of YHWH [Micaiah is speaking]: I saw YHWHsitting on his throne[that is an anthropomorphic description, is it not?], and all the host of heaven [the army of heaven, including the angels] standing by him[YHWH] on his right hand and on his left.’”

    1 Kings 22:18–19
    Here they all were, looking like and doing things like human beings, YHWH and also the angels. Micaiah goes on relating events of the divine council:

    “And YHWH said, ‘Who shall persuade Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramothgilead?’ And one [of the angels] said on this manner, and another said on that manner.”

    1 Kings 22:20
    Now look at verse 21 closely: “And there came forth a spirit, and stood before YHWH, and said, I will persuade him.” Here is this angel, described as a spirit, but having bodily composition, image, and likeness, standing in front of YHWH, who is also spirit. They look just like human beings. Yet here they are described as being spirit. This does not mean something wispy. It does not mean something cloudy. It does not mean something of a nebulous nature. They had bodily characteristics, clearly and plainly, though they were made out of spiritual substance. This is the key. Spiritual substance.

    So, this spirit stood before the Lord and said, “I will persuade him” (verse 22):

    “And YHWH said unto him, ‘Wherewith [how will you do it?]’? And he said, ‘I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit [a lying angel] in the mouth of all his prophets [Ahab’s prophets].’ And he[YHWH] said, ‘You shall persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.’”

    1 Kings 22:22
    The spirit then went forth and put lies in the mouth of all the prophets down there. Even Micaiah himself was required by God to tell Ahab that, because that is what was ordered by God in this particular circumstance.

    But you see, this was a council in heaven that took place. YHWH asked on one hand what was to be done. One spirit said, let us do this and another said let us do that, just like a human government council or a corporate board of directors that we would have on earth. It was finally decided to do it this way. You could have seen that with your eyes, just as Micaiah “saw” in vision (1 Kings 22:18–20). These angels were described as being spirits who had bodily composition.

    God Is Like Christ — and Vice Versa
    God the Father has body composition of Spirit, just like Jesus Christ has a body composition at the present time. If you want to know how God the Father looks, Jesus said in the Gospel of John that the Father and I are one (John 10:30, 17:11, 21). Remember how many times He said that? In Hebrews, chapter 1, this is what we read, and it is important for us to see this:

    “God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son [that son is Jesus Christ] whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds [aions, the various ages].”

    Hebrews 1:1–2
    That is Jesus Christ. Now look at verse 3: “Who[Christ] being the brightness of his glory …”Remember how God is described as having a garment of light around him? That is the glory.

    “… and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power…Hebrews 1:3
    Jesus Christ has the express image of the Father. Do you know how Jesus Christ is shown to be at the present time by the apostle Paul? Look at 1 Timothy 2:4–6. It speaks here, using the pronoun to refer to God:

    “Who [God] will have all men to be saved, and come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men[anthropon, plural], the man [anthropos, singular] Christ Jesus.”

    1 Timothy 2:4–6
    In the Greek, it is the anthropos Christ Jesus. Paul was describing Jesus as looking like a man, and being an anthropos some 30 years after His resurrection. And He is in the express image of the Father (Hebrews 1:3). You and I are destined, in the future, to look just exactly — that is, with hands and feet and so forth, with a spiritual type of body — as they are at the present time.

    Look at First John chapter 3. This is very important because John understood that it is difficult for us to appreciate, and to appraise, what a spiritual body would look like. But it looks like a human, or a man, or a woman, if that be the case:

    “Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons [in the Greek, teknon, children] of God: therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not.”

    1 John 3:1
    Look at verse 2: “Beloved,now are we the sons[children] of God.” That means we are the children of God already. We are humans right now, of course, we have not been resurrected from the dead — yet. But we are already children of God.

    “… and it does not yet appear what we shall be [We do not know what the spiritual body will be like exactly]; but we know that, when He[Christ] shall appear [at the Second Advent], we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.”

    1 John 3:2
    Your Future Spiritual Body
    We will be changed into the same type of spiritual body that God now has, and that Christ now has. We will then be called “spirit,” but we will also be substantial, because God is substantial. He has dimensions. He has form. He has shape. 13

    Though Christ’s body is made of resplendent light that shines forth from this spiritual existence that He has, you and I will be changed into that very type of existence. Look at First Corinthians chapter 15, speaking about the resurrection from the dead, Paul said:

    “But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? You fool [Paul says], that which you sow is not quickened[that is, made alive], except it die.”

    1 Corinthians 15:35
    Then Paul tells about grains of wheat put into the ground, and when the wheat comes forth, it comes forth as a different type of a thing than the seed, yet it is exactly the same type of grain that went into the ground. He says:

    “So also is the resurrection of the dead. It [the body] is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. [That is us, all of us, our bodies.] There is a natural body [that is us now], and there is a spiritual body [us in the future].”

    1 Corinthians 15:42–44
    It goes on to say that we will be changed into that spiritual body. Going on down to verse 50:

    “Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood [as we are right now] cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep [that means, die], but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed, For this corruptible [this body] must put on incorruption, and this mortal [body] shall put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, ‘Death is swallowed up in victory.’”

    1 Corinthians 15:50–54 (citing Isaiah 25:8)
    That is First Corinthians, chapter 15. We have to be changed from this flesh and blood existence into a spiritual existence. We will be exactly as Jesus Christ was in His experience that He showed through His death and resurrection, and He is still to this very day called an anthropos — like a man. And He and the Father have both the same image, shape, form, substance. But it is spiritual substance. And the apostle Paul said in Philippians, chapter 3, a very important section here which also helps us to understand these matters: “For our conversation [our citizenship] is in heaven …” (Philippians 3:20). That is where we will be one of these days. But it is a spiritual citizenship.

    “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence[heaven] also we look for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shallchange our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue[subject] all things unto himself.”

    Philippians 3:20–21
    So you see, our destiny, our future, what we are to become, in salvation, is to become just exactly, in body form, as Jesus Christ is at the present time. How is Jesus Christ at this present moment? He is in the express image of the Father (Hebrews 1:3). And the Father sits on a throne at times. Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of the Father, at times:

    “And has raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.”Ephesians 2:6–7
    We are told in Ephesians 2:6, that you and I now, legally, are sitting on the right hand of the Father. If we are sitting on the right hand of the Father, it is in fact “at His right hand.” We look like He does; He looks like we do. The glorious body of Jesus Christ can “sit” on the right hand of the Father, and so can the Father sit on the left hand of Jesus Christ.

    We, according to Colossians chapter 3, can sit down at the right hand of the Father just like Christ sits on the right hand of the Father.

    “If you then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above,where Christ sits on the right hand of God.”Colossians 3:1
    Since Christ is the firstborn of the Father from the dead, and we are also “in Christ,” that makes us all first-born in one way of looking at it, and Hebrews chapter 12 says that is what we are. So, we are all children of God. 14

    We are not children of horses, which always would be like other horses. We are not children of cows, which would be like other cows. We are not children of grasshoppers, which would always be like other grasshoppers. We are children of God, which means that we are like God! That is what our salvation is all about. That is what we shall be changed into, in the fullest sense, in the future. We are to be changed from this vile body which is flesh, and that flesh is corrupt, is it not? Daily you know it. Do you ever have any aches and pains? Of course you do. Do you have corruption at the present time? Yes, you do. Are you looking for incorruption? Are you looking for immortality? Then your bodies will have to be changed into the spiritual composition like the body that God the Father now has.

    There are some people who would still say, I still find it difficult to believe that God looks like a human being.” But you know, every description of Him in the Bible shows that He does look like a human being. It is funny. I do not have any problems having Him be that way at all. In fact, when you want to pray to Him, as a Father, how can you pray to Him as a Father if you do not look upon Him as your actual Father? And Jesus Christ as your Elder Brother?

    Really, let us get our senses straight. Our salvation is to be changed into the very spiritual substance that God the Father and Christ have now. They are both spiritual bodies. That is not what you are now, but in the future you will become like they are now (1 John 3:2). Yes, the bodily composition of God is spiritual. It is immortal. And it is also incorruptible. That is what you are destined to be given. That is what you are destined to achieve.

    Another description of what Christ looks like at present (besides 1 Timothy 2:4–6) was shown in vision to the apostle John:

    “And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shines in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead.”Revelation 1:13–17
    The basic likeness is identifiably human, and is explicitly stated to be so by John: “like unto the Son of man,” 15 while many elements are more than human with the light and countenance shining as bright as the sun. His eyes were bright like flames. His skin where exposed was also shining.

    This is what we shall be like when we put on our immortality like a cloak (1 Corinthians chapter 15) because we shall be thenlike He is now (1 John 3:2). When He was on earth Christ looked like His father (John 14:9). Christ now is in the express image of God the Father who is YHWH (Hebrews 1:3). Christ is also in the image and likness of a man. Indeed He is a man, an anthropos.

    As the Father is now, Christ is now. As Christ is now, we shall become, part of the Divine Family. The bodily composition of God is a reality. That reality shall be yours and it shall be mine. It is our future inheritance.

    God bless

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