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Nick,
This sentence states nothing of the ways of man. Instead is speaks of the opposition of the flesh to God's Spirit. Another passage that speaks of the rebellion of the flesh is:
Romans 8:20-21
Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, 21 because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Nick,
I am sure what you are speaking of but I do know what I am. I am speaking of flesh being subjected to vanity and how it will one day be feed from its bondage to corruption. I even know where God subjected it to frustration as it part of the God's curse of man that occurred at the Fall, Genesis 3:19.
Nick,
Flesh is a creature but it is not the only creature that was subjected to frustration. It is the one that is relevant to what I said. I am not even sure the soul or spirit of a man are creations as they either came with or are the result of the breath of God.
mikeboll64,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote In your understanding, it reads, “The Father so loved the world that He sent Himself into earth as His own only begotten Son.” Mike,
THAT'S THE TRUTH!
JESUS'FLESH SUBSTANCE WAS ONLY A COVER, A CARRIER!
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WAS THAT GOD USED HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT SUBSTANCE SOLIDIFIED INTO MATTER IN ORDER TO OWN THAT COVER,
NOTHING ELSE COULD BE SUFFICIENT FOR THE FATHER TO ABIDE WITHIN
THIS COVER HAD ALSO LIFE IN ITSELF, AND INTEGRATED WITH GOD FOR ETERNITY AFTER RESURRECTION!
NOT DEAD LIKE OURS!
WE WOULD RECEIVE THE LIFE ONLY WHEN OUR COVER DIES! THE FIRST RESURRECTION!
SIMPLY BECAUSE A SPECK OF THAT SAME GOD'S COVER SUBSTANCE IS WITHIN US FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD:
THE ONLY LIFE SOURCE!
THEREFORE
THE TRIUNE MEDIATOR CREATOR GOD
OR
THE WORD
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote So now we have two completely DIFFERENT heavenly Fathers – and two completely DIFFERENT Gods? Mike,
NO ,
ALL CREATURES HAVE ONLY ONE FATHER!
JESUS CHRIST
ALMIGHTY GOD DID NOT DIE!
ALMIGHTY GOD ACQUIRED FATHERHOOD OF ALL CREATURES THROUGH JESUS CHRIST!
HE WAS NEVER A FATHER BEFORE!
ONLY A MYSTERIOUS,HIDDEN, SPIRIT GOD!
TO BE A FATHER OF CREATURES, THE FATHER MUST OWN
THE SAME FLESH SUBSTANCE,
LIVE IN THE SAME ENVIRONMENT OF HIS OWN CHILDREN
AND DIE LIKE ALL HIS CHILDREN!
ALMIGHTY GOD WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO ACHIEVE THIS
UNLESS HE HIMSELF FURNISH HIMSELF WITH A COVER OUT OF HIMSELF, TO FUNCTION AS A MEDIATOR
WITHIN HIS OWN AND THE SAME CHILDREN HE HIMSELF CREATED, DIED FOR LIKE HIS OWN CHILDREN, REDEEMED THEM, AND CONFIRMED THAT HE IS THE ONLY FATHER OF IT ALL NO ONE ELSE!
NOW WHEN ALL HIS CREATURES, FROM HEAVEN AND EARTH ACCEPT THIS TRUTH,
ONLY THEN THEY BECOME HIS CHILDREN!
THEN THIS FATHER JESUS CHRIST,
THE ABOVE IS FROM THE FATHER POINT OF VIEW ONLY
NEXT I WILL POST FROM THE GOD AND THE INTEGRATION POINT OF VIEW, SINCE YOU ARE IN NEED OF WINE!
PERHAPS! ONLY GOD KNOWS,
YOU MIGHT TASTE IT AND ACCEPT IT
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2014,16:25) Hi KW
Flesh is a creature??
Nick……..Look up the word creature used there and you will find it means creation. The whole creation of God will be delivered and it is God who subjected it all to corruption in hopes and it is God who will deliver it (the creation) unto the Glorious liberty of the sons of God.God will never do away with his creation of man or this earth but will transform it to an eternal state of existences. Adam and Eve as flesh humans could have lived for ever according to God, had they take of the tree of life. Also human have lived through being thrown into a fiery furnace, have become so strong that they could single highhandedly slay one thousand solders in battle collapse large temples by human hand, walk on water, vanish and reappear carried unto heaven and will return also all with physical flesh bodies.
The words that say flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God is relating to idea that our bodies of flesh is not what CAN enter IN, but it is the SPIRIT is in us that MUST of itself cause us (which includes our flesh bodies) to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Jesus said the kingdom of God comes “not with observation” (it is not physical), it is “WITHIN” you. That means the Kingdom of God is “IN” your Physical Body where the Spirit dwell.
It is not God plan to do away with his creation but to deliver it from it “Bondage” of Corruption, unto the glorious of the son of God. Jesus' body scriptures says did not see corruption , it was resurrected before it decade or was turned to corruption, like the rest of man has after death,
Notice why Jesus' body did not see corruption, because he did not sin, and God judgement was that the Soul that sins shall parish. Jesus did not sin so his soul (body) did not see corruption.
The whole idea that we will become a spirit, without a physical body is a false teaching, Jesus will return just as he was resurrected with a physical body .
Much of what brother Kewin is saying on this subjectis right. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 13 2014,03:52) Quote (jammin @ April 11 2014,10:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2014,09:36) Quote (jammin @ April 10 2014,07:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2014,12:15) Quote (jammin @ April 09 2014,07:44) i believe that the word God in phil 2.6 refers to the nature or essence.
Okay jammin,That takes care of the FIRST word “God” in verse 6. But what about the second “God”?
Philippians 2:6 NET Bible
who though he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped………..Is that talking about equality with a nature or essence? Or equality with the PERSON known as “God”?
we are not done with the form of God and yet you want to jump to another topic.
It's not a second topic jammin. It is a question concerning the ONE verse we are discussing.So please answer the question.
we need to finish the FIRST topic before we can jump to the SECOND topic.do you exist in the form of MAN?
I exist in the form of manKIND, jammin……….. which means I am A man – not THE man.Now answer my question.
i did not say you exist in the form of THE MAN. i said do you exist in the form of MAN.
therefore you do exist in the form of MAN and not your OWN MAN. correct?
if yes, then you must accept that Christ exist in the form of God and not HIS OWN GOD. you cant exist in the form of your own MAN because there is no such word like that. only a moron can tell that
Quote (kerwin @ April 12 2014,06:41) Quote (jammin @ April 11 2014,22:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 11 2014,09:36) Quote (jammin @ April 10 2014,07:45) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 10 2014,12:15) Quote (jammin @ April 09 2014,07:44) i believe that the word God in phil 2.6 refers to the nature or essence.
Okay jammin,That takes care of the FIRST word “God” in verse 6. But what about the second “God”?
Philippians 2:6 NET Bible
who though he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped………..Is that talking about equality with a nature or essence? Or equality with the PERSON known as “God”?
we are not done with the form of God and yet you want to jump to another topic.
It's not a second topic jammin. It is a question concerning the ONE verse we are discussing.So please answer the question.
we need to finish the FIRST topic before we can jump to the SECOND topic.do you exist in the form of MAN?
ordo you exist in the form of your OWN MAN?
Jammin,God desire for each and every man to exist in his form.
You are asking Mike if he is a mere man and so not a son of God.
answer my questiondo you exist in the form of MAN or your OWN MAN?
Hi GB,
What do you make of 1Cor 15?
We shall be changed.2Cor 5?
Jesus does not live in a torn cut body and our new tent is going to be an improvement on this corruptible one
kerwin,April wrote:[/quote]
Quote 1 Corinthians 15:46 RHE
Douay-RheimsYet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural: afterwards that which is spiritual.
God created the heaven and earth, the physical, first.
God created the beasts, the natural, second.
God created the humans, the spiritual, last.Scripture testifies of this as the first use of created is:
Genesis 1:1
Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)1 In the beginning God created heaven, and earth.
Kewin,
1 Corinthians 15:46 is regarding RESURRECTION!
WHAT CREATION GOT TO DO WITH IT?
YOU SAID:
God created the heaven and earth, the physical, first.
physical
Free Dictionary Download
1.
of or pertaining to the body: physical exercise.
2.
of or pertaining to that which is material: the physical universe; the physical sciences.
3.
noting or pertaining to the properties of matter and energy other than those peculiar to living matter.
4.
pertaining to the physical sciences, especially physics.
5.
carnal; sexual: a physical attraction.AS YOU CAN READ THERE'S NOTHING RELATED TO SPIRITS!
SO THE ABOVE IS AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL, GOD CREATED THE HEAVEN SPIRITUAL CREATURES FIRST!
THEN EARTH MATERIAL CREATURES SECOND!
FOR YOUR INFORMATION:
GENESIS 1:1 ALTHOUGH THERE WAS EARTH INCLUDED, IT WAS NOT MORTAL! UP TO THAT MOMENT IN TIME SINCE ALL WAS IN GOD'S HARMONY!
THEREFORE ALTHOUGH IT WAS EARTH IT WAS STILL SPIRITUAL, AND IT COULD DISSOLVE IN AN INSTANT BACK TO SPIRITS!
THEN THE REBEL OCCURRED AND THE EARTH SOLIDIFIED PERMANENTLY THROUGH THE FALL!
SO BETWEEN GENESIS 1:1, AND 1:2 THE REBEL OCCURRED AND GOD'S HARMONY ENDED, AND MATTER BECAME PERMANENTLY SOLID, HELL, THE CENTRE OF THE EARTH WAS INTRODUCED, AND OUR WORLD WAS ESTABLISHED AS IT IS NOW!
God created the beasts, the natural, second.
THE ABOVE IS STILL MATTER! NATURE IS MATTER! THROUGHOUT!
IT SIMPLY GRADUALLY LOOSES ITS HARDNESS, TILL EVENTUALLY BECAME FLESH! IN ORDER TO REVERSE ITSELF TO SPIRIT,
God created the humans, the spiritual, last.
THE ABOVE IS NOT SPIRITUAL! BUT ALSO MATTER!
OUR KIND OF HUMANS WERE NEVER SPIRITUAL!ADAM WAS NOT CREATED SPIRITUAL!
ADAM WAS THE TRANSFORMATION OF LUCIFER FROM BEAST INTO A MAN, AFTER IT WENT EXTINCT!
THEN GOD GAVE HIM HIS SPIRIT, AND CHANGED HIM INTO A LIVING SOUL!
ADAM LOST HIS SPIRITUAL FLESH STATE THROUGH SIN, AND BECAME FLESH AND BLOOD, SATAN'S IMAGE!
SINCE HE REJECTED GOD, AND ACCEPTED SATAN!
ANIMALS WERE MORE PERFECT THAN ADAM WAS, AFTER HE SINNED, SINCE THEY RETAINED THEIR ORIGINAL STATE, !
COMPARE A CHILD ON BIRTH WITH A MERE CHICK WHEN IT COMES OUT FROM AN EGG, AND YOU WILL REALIZE THAT HUMANS DEFINITELY LOST THE ENTIRE IMAGE OF GOD, AND THE ONLY WAY TO BECOME GOD'S IMAGE WAS THAT GOD HIMSELF BECAME LIKE US IN JESUS CHRIST!
SO READ AGAIN:
1 Corinthians 15:46 Yet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; afterwards that which is spiritual.
THEREFORE REGARDING RESURRECTION,
THE NATURAL BODY FIRST TO BE RESURRECTED, AS INCORRUPTIBLE HUMAN BODY,
THEN AFTERWARDS GOD CHANGES US AND GIVES US A NEW BODY
THE SAME PROCESS WHICH ADAM HAD!
THE SAME PROCESS WHICH THE SECOND ADAM HAD!
1 Corinthians 15:38 But God giveth it a body as he will: and to every seed its proper body.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ April 15 2014,01:29) Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2014,16:25) Hi KW
Flesh is a creature??
Nick……..Look up the word creature used there and you will find it means creation. The whole creation of God will be delivered and it is God who subjected it all to corruption in hopes and it is God who will deliver it (the creation) unto the Glorious liberty of the sons of God.God will never do away with his creation of man or this earth but will transform it to an eternal state of existences. Adam and Eve as flesh humans could have lived for ever according to God, had they take of the tree of life. Also human have lived through being thrown into a fiery furnace, have become so strong that they could single highhandedly slay one thousand solders in battle collapse large temples by human hand, walk on water, vanish and reappear carried unto heaven and will return also all with physical flesh bodies.
The words that say flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of God is relating to idea that our bodies of flesh is not what CAN enter IN, but it is the SPIRIT is in us that MUST of itself cause us (which includes our flesh bodies) to enter into the Kingdom of God.
Jesus said the kingdom of God comes “not with observation” (it is not physical), it is “WITHIN” you. That means the Kingdom of God is “IN” your Physical Body where the Spirit dwell.
It is not God plan to do away with his creation but to deliver it from it “Bondage” of Corruption, unto the glorious of the son of God. Jesus' body scriptures says did not see corruption , it was resurrected before it decade or was turned to corruption, like the rest of man has after death,
Notice why Jesus' body did not see corruption, because he did not sin, and God judgement was that the Soul that sins shall parish. Jesus did not sin so his soul (body) did not see corruption.
The whole idea that we will become a spirit, without a physical body is a false teaching, Jesus will return just as he was resurrected with a physical body .
Much of what brother Kewin is saying on this subjectis right. IMO
peace and love to you and yours……………………….gene
Good explanation brother.Hi GB,
It shall be
67.Luke 13:28
There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.68.Luke 13:29
And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.69.Luke 14:15
And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.It comes this way.
This is how it IS71.Luke 17:20
And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:72.Luke 17:21
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2014,19:16) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 14 2014,06:52) Quote (kerwin @ April 13 2014,18:28) I do know that Hebrews 6:3 is using flesh as if it was in rebellion against the governance of the Spirit.
Please give me the correct scripture, so I can check what you're saying.
Mike,It is definition of flesh I found at blueletterbible.org. Psalms 78:38 uses it the same way
Kerwin,This is Hebrews 6:3……….
NET © And this is what we intend to do, if God permits.
NIV ©
And God permitting, we will do so.NASB ©
And this we will do, if God permits.NLT ©
And so, God willing, we will move forward to further understanding.MSG ©
God helping us, we'll stay true to all that. But there's so much more. Let's get on with it!BBE ©
Now we will do this, if God lets us.NRSV ©
And we will do this, if God permits.NKJV ©
And this we will do if God permits.I'm asking for the correct scripture.
Quote (carmel @ April 14 2014,00:34) Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 14 2014,04:07) In your understanding, it reads, “The Father so loved the world that He sent Himself into earth as His own only begotten Son.” Mike,
THAT'S THE TRUTH!
Okay Charles,Now we're sure of what you believe. I don't believe the same thing. I believe one person, “God”, sent another person, “His Son Jesus”, into the earth.
I will never believe that the Son OF God IS the very God he is the Son OF.
Quote (jammin @ April 14 2014,10:58) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Quote (jammin @ April 09 2014,07:44) i believe that the word God in phil 2.6 refers to the nature or essence.
Okay jammin,That takes care of the FIRST word “God” in verse 6. But what about the second “God”?
Philippians 2:6 NET Bible
who though he existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped………..Is that talking about equality with a nature or essence? Or equality with the PERSON known as “God”?
1. therefore you do exist in the form of MAN and not your OWN MAN. correct?2. if yes, then you must accept that Christ exist in the form of God and not HIS OWN GOD.
1. Only if by “man” you mean “MANKIND”, jammin.Let me show you the difference:
A. I exist in the form of Adam – by which I mean I am “Adam-kind”, otherwise known in English as “Mankind”.
In sample A, the word “Adam” refers to the SPECIES known to us as “Mankind”.
B. I exist in the form of Adam – by which I mean Eve's husband and I share a form/image.
In sample B, the word “Adam” refers to the PERSON who was the first human being ever created.
Can you see that the same word “Adam” is used in both samples, but those words refer to two different things?
It is the same in Phil 2, jammin. The phrase “existing in the form of God” means for me that Jesus was existing in the form of the PERSON known to us as Jehovah.
But for you, that same phrase means Jesus was existing as a member of a SPECIES called “Godkind”.
We cannot, from the phrase “existing in the form of God”, tell which one of us is right – although we must note that your understanding calls for the INVENTION of a species called “Godkind”.
But since we can't tell for sure from that one simple phrase, we must look to the rest of the context for the answer.
This is why I'm asking you who or what the SECOND word “God” refers to in that same statement. Perhaps the meaning of the SECOND mention of “God” can shed some light on the meaning of the FIRST mention of “God” for us.
2. Your statement is correct AS LONG AS the “God” mentioned in the first part of the statement refers to a “Godkind” SPECIES.
If the “God” in the first part of the statement refers to JEHOVAH, like I think, then I am right that Jesus was existing in the form of HIS OWN GOD – since we know from scriptures that Jehovah IS the God of Jesus.
Now it's time for YOU to answer MY question. Who or what does the SECOND word “God” refer to in that statement?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 14 2014,12:18) Hi GB,
What do you make of 1Cor 15?
We shall be changed.2Cor 5?
Jesus does not live in a torn cut body and our new tent is going to be an improvement on this corruptible one
Also Phil 3:21. Or 1 John 3:2, where John makes it clear that he had yet to see Jesus “as he is”.Also think about the transfiguration, Gene. Why in the world would God show Jesus to three apostles in a glorified state, shining brighter than the sun – if Jesus was never going to achieve that glorified state?
Quote (carmel @ April 14 2014,13:54) Quote (kerwin @ April 14 2014,04:41) 1 Corinthians 15:46 RHE
Douay-RheimsYet that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural: afterwards that which is spiritual.
Kerwin,1 Corinthians 15:46 is regarding RESURRECTION!
WHAT CREATION GOT TO DO WITH IT?
Exactly, Charles.Kerwin is using an unrelated teaching to “support” his view on a completely different teaching.
I also tried to tell him the same.
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