- This topic has 25,959 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 6 days, 16 hours ago by
.
- Posts
Quote (jammin @ Mar. 18 2014,07:55) my point is they are all……. 1. not all knowing,
2. not all powerful,
3. not everywhere,
4. not eternal etc,.
5. they are not God by nature.
6. they are HUMANS! do you understand? and human by nature has limitations.
And my point is that:1. JESUS is not “all knowing”.
2. JESUS is not “all powerful”.
3. There is no scripture that says God is “everywhere at the same time”, let alone Jesus.
4. Many of us WILL ALSO BE “eternal” – which won't make us “God”. We will be GIVEN eternal life, just as God GAVE eternal life to His prophet Jesus Christ.
5. Jesus is never said to be “God by nature” either.
6. Jesus also has limitations – to this very day.
Hi MB,
You say God is in you.
You agree God was in Christ?All of this is by the Spirit.
So Christ and his brothers can be with God without the odd conclusion you reach?[God with God]
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2014,14:33) Hi MB,
You say God is in you.
You agree God was in Christ?All of this is by the Spirit.
So Christ and his brothers can be with God without the odd conclusion you reach?[God with God]
NickYou need to see this. God was really in Christ's DNA.
Hi J42,
Of course Jesus had half his DNA from his Father.
The other half from Mary.His spiritual sonship was of the Spirit at the Jordan
nick wrote:[/quote]
Quote Hi J42,
Of course Jesus had half his DNA from his Father.
The other half from Mary.
NickIt's truly amazing and not talked about enough.
Even now, the proof of Jesus' existence is being proven.Quote His spiritual sonship was of the Spirit at the Jordan John 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
John 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the saime is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
John 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
This was only a sign for John to recognise who Jesus was, as he did not know him.
Jesus “spiritual sonship” as you say (not in scripture, unusual term – correct me if I'm wrong)
happened way before the Jordan,
…at his conception,
and I'm not even sure if it's correct to say Jesus holds a “spiritual sonship”
because he was made flesh, and therefore became an “earthly son”
but worshipped in the spirit.We christians hold a “spiritual sonship”,
because we believe only,
and are adopted into the family spiritually.Hi J42,
In that case Mary has equal rights to parenthood.We follow him but cannot do so if his sonship is to Mary
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2014,12:09) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 18 2014,07:55) my point is they are all……. 1. not all knowing,
2. not all powerful,
3. not everywhere,
4. not eternal etc,.
5. they are not God by nature.
6. they are HUMANS! do you understand? and human by nature has limitations.
And my point is that:1. JESUS is not “all knowing”.
2. JESUS is not “all powerful”.
3. There is no scripture that says God is “everywhere at the same time”, let alone Jesus.
4. Many of us WILL ALSO BE “eternal” – which won't make us “God”. We will be GIVEN eternal life, just as God GAVE eternal life to His prophet Jesus Christ.
5. Jesus is never said to be “God by nature” either.
6. Jesus also has limitations – to this very day.
jesus became like us. you should know that.God is everywhere and there is a verse for that. do not fool people.
your doctrine is from JW, a cult church.you have no nature of God. no verse that says HUMANS have nature of God. make your own version. hahaha
Jesus is God by nature.
before he became like, he was in the nature of God.
Philippians 2:6
New International Version (NIV)6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2014,11:49) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 18 2014,07:40) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2014,11:35) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 17 2014,07:47) elijah, david and goliath or whatever, all of them have LIMITATION
Jesus also had limitations, jammin. He still does today – even in his exalted state. That's why he sits at the right hand of his and our God Jehovah, and waits for Jehovah to place his enemies at his feet, so he can then destroy those enemies.That's why, even in heaven, Jesus still calls Jehovah “my God”.
that is when he became human.that is why paul told in phil 2.7 he became like us.
Okay jammin,But in order for you to say that to me, you must believe two things:
1. Jesus WASN'T actually God when he was on earth, since he had limitations as a human.
2. Jesus is STILL not God in heaven, since he STILL has limitations.
Which of those things do you believe?
he is God.thomas said that
john 20.28
John 20:28
The Voice (VOICE)Thomas (filled with emotion): 28 You are the one True God and Lord of my life.
sorry boy but you have to study more
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2014,12:01) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 18 2014,07:49) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2014,11:53) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 17 2014,07:52) mike, do not fool people. what verse does it say that solomon is omniscient?
you mean since the beginning of his existence here on earth, HE KNOWS EVERYTHING? YES OR NO?give me one boy. stop fooling people.
I couldn't find the one about Solomon, but in 2 Samuel 14:20, David is said to have the wisdom of an angel of God, and to know all things on the earth.My point was that sharing a nature doesn't make us equal in every way.
And things like “knowledge” are not part of the nature we share. For example, David had much more knowledge than the rest of the humans alive at that time. And Solomon was even wiser than David.
But just because those two knew a lot doesn't mean everybody with human nature knows as much as they did.
So while Jehovah might be omniscient, it doesn't mean that everyone who shares His nature also knows everything Jehovah knows.
therefore no verse that says solomon is all knowing. hahahaand for your 2 sam 14.20, it does not mean that he is omniscient. it talks about all political things!
Quote therefore no verse that says solomon is all knowing. hahaha
I didn't say that. I said I didn't find the Solomon verse, so posted the David one. In other words, after finding the David verse, I stopped looking for the Solomon verse, since the David verse makes my point just as well.Quote and for your 2 sam 14.20, it does not mean that he is omniscient. it talks about all political things!
The Hebrew words say “you know ALL things concerning the earth”.And the point is that both David and Solomon knew more than the majority of those other humans who lived among them. Yet they all shared the same human nature, right?
So sharing a nature DOESN'T mean “equal knowledge”.
So the fact that Jehovah is omniscient DOESN'T mean that anyone else who shares His spirit nature is also omniscient.
Your claim was already baseless before the scripture I showed you. Now you should be able to SEE that it was baseless.
you said david is all knowing. he is omniscient,correct?
your verse does not say that.my question is
1 cr 14.10
New International Version
so David inquired of God: “Shall I go and attack the Philistines? Will you deliver them into my hands?” The LORD answered him, “Go, I will deliver them into your hands.”according to the verse, is david all knowing (omnsicient)? yes or no?
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,03:55) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 18 2014,19:39) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 18 2014,12:28) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 17 2014,19:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2014,09:50) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2014,05:51) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 16 2014,05:01) kerwin, divine nature is not the ONLY nature of God. do you understand? if you say you have the nature of God, then you should be almighty, eternal, you are everywhere, all knowing, etc.
go back to school boy
Jammin,Thank you for answering my question.
Do your think “image of God” and “form of God” mean the same thing?
Jammin,I bumped this because somehow my words got confused and I corrected them. Please answer. Thank you.
gen 1.27 and phil 2.6 are not the sametherefore, image of God is not the same as Form of God.
Jammin,Since image and form have equivalent meaning you should flush out your argument instead of basing it truth on your own authority.
what are you talking about? dont you understand my post? hahahai told gen 1.26-27 has nothing to do with phil 2.6
they are not the same! make your own bible hahaha and put image in phil 2.6
Jammin,My point is you do not use English correctly in your post since you claim image and form do not mean the same thing. I was also given you a chance to explain what appears to be nonsense.
they are not the same boy. why? because you do not how to understand english well. i know that form has a synonym of image BUT if we are going to read the context of gen 1.26-27 and phil 2.6, they are not the same.why? bec gen 1.27- speaks only about righteousness and holiness. eph 4.24
but phil 2.6 speaks about the nature of God. do you understand>? i know you dont bec you do not know how to understand the context and the right way of understanding sentences.
kerwin,
if you insist, then give me a single version of gen 1.26 that says nature God. can you give me one or not?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 19 2014,11:46) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 18 2014,05:22) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 18 2014,12:02) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 17 2014,09:36) Mike i do not worship the commandments as my God…………
Why not, Gene?You say the words/commandments/curses/instructions of God ARE God, right?
Aren't we supposed to worship “God”?
So if His words ARE Him, then we should worship His words, right?
Mike………What i said was Gods word are part of him because they are from him…….
No Gene,You actually said (many times) that the Word of God IS God, because a person IS his word, and vice-versa.
So using that reasoning, the command/utterance/instruction/curse of God actually IS God Himself.
And if it IS God, then we should worship it.
If, on the other hand, the utterance God speaks is NOT actually God Himself, then the translation “and the Word was God“ is flawed.
Mike…….NO, what i said was God and His words are one and the same “Just” (or, as in the same way) you and “YOUR WORDS” are one and the same. “Why” because your words come from your “MIND”, they are connected to YOU “ONLY”. So it is with the LORD Yahweh “OUR GOD”, His Words. are connected to his Mind, So he and his words are ONE and the same.Your are the one saying You and your words are different from each other , Not ME Mike, You said your word were not you, but never said who your words are. Please enlighten us, tell us Mike who your words are if not you.
You need to seperated God from his words in order for you false teachings of the words of John 1:1 to make Jesus, Gods words. He is Not God Words , He spoke Gods word to us, Not HIS WORDS, Just as he said “the words I am telling you are not “MY” words, but the Words of Him who sent Me”.
So how does that scripture fit your false teachings Mike. Seem Jesus doesn't think He is God's words , Just you and all Trinitarinas and Preexistence's do.
Mike why can't you understand you are doing exactly what Satan want you to do, Move Jesus' Identity away from His Human brothers and sisters. Your playing right into his hands Mike, rather you can see it or not , If you do not see Jesus, as a Human from Human Kind you simply do not see Jesus, and you can not Identify with him properly. IMO
Jesus was a son of God in exactly way we can be , by the infusion of HOLY Spirit which he received when he was Baptized in the Jordan. Nothing took place in his life as far as his ministry goes until he was baptized at the Jordan, and then straightway the Spirit led him into the Wilderness to be tested.
why did this not take place before he was Baptized? Because he had not received the Holy Spirit till them, he was not born with it, he received it at the Jordan river.Peace and love to your and yours………………………….gene
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 19 2014,10:04) Hi J42,
Of course Jesus had half his DNA from his Father.
The other half from Mary.His spiritual sonship was of the Spirit at the Jordan
Nick,DNA is a bodily thing and Scripture declares Jesus was the Son of David, as of the body, Romans 1:2. Journey's understanding is based on a flawed verse from a manuscript that the KJV uses, Acts 20:28. Even then it can be interpreted different.
Quote (jammin @ Mar. 19 2014,19:59) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 19 2014,03:55) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 18 2014,19:39) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 18 2014,12:28) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 17 2014,19:44) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 17 2014,09:50) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 16 2014,05:51) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 16 2014,05:01) kerwin, divine nature is not the ONLY nature of God. do you understand? if you say you have the nature of God, then you should be almighty, eternal, you are everywhere, all knowing, etc.
go back to school boy
Jammin,Thank you for answering my question.
Do your think “image of God” and “form of God” mean the same thing?
Jammin,I bumped this because somehow my words got confused and I corrected them. Please answer. Thank you.
gen 1.27 and phil 2.6 are not the sametherefore, image of God is not the same as Form of God.
Jammin,Since image and form have equivalent meaning you should flush out your argument instead of basing it truth on your own authority.
what are you talking about? dont you understand my post? hahahai told gen 1.26-27 has nothing to do with phil 2.6
they are not the same! make your own bible hahaha and put image in phil 2.6
Jammin,My point is you do not use English correctly in your post since you claim image and form do not mean the same thing. I was also given you a chance to explain what appears to be nonsense.
they are not the same boy. why? because you do not how to understand english well. i know that form has a synonym of image BUT if we are going to read the context of gen 1.26-27 and phil 2.6, they are not the same.why? bec gen 1.27- speaks only about righteousness and holiness. eph 4.24
but phil 2.6 speaks about the nature of God. do you understand>? i know you dont bec you do not know how to understand the context and the right way of understanding sentences.
Jammin,That is a better quality answer that the first one you gave me.
You claim that Genesis 1.27 is speaking only about righteousness but if you read it you will find it speaks of things that set man above the animals as well. In fact it speaks of how man was made in Jehovah's Spiritual image. Those things do not change your point.
You claim that Philippians 2:6 speaks about the nature of God though that is only the religious opinion of some translators and not what it literally states.
According to the AV of the KJV Philippians 2:6 is part of a huge sentence that begins at verse 5 and goes to verse 8. The topic of the sentence is having the mind of Christ. Verses 6-8 is using Jesus as an example of having the mind of Christ. Verses 6-7 sets up the ideas of having the form of God and taking on the form of a servant. Form is clearly used in the same sense in both instances. Since the whole is to show us what it means to have the mind of Christ then it seems rational that Paul's example would start out ” who, being in the mind of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the mind of a servant,…”
In short Philippians 2:6 teaches us Jesus performed an action because he had the form of the mind of God and verse 5 is telling us to follow him.
Quote It makes perfect sense to me that Jesus had to take on flesh to be sacrificed, and also so he could become a better mediator between us and his God due to knowing first hand the trials and tribulations we go through as a species. MIke,
AS ALWAYS:
YOUR WORLDLY WISDOM WILL NOT PERMIT YOU TO SEE GOD'S WISDOM, NOT ONLY THAT BUT IN THIS CASE IT DIDN'T PERMIT YOU TO SEE WHAT YOU ALWAYS PRETEND AND BELIEVE, TO KNOW,AND TO SEE!
IN THIS CASE, IT IS WELL SAID BY JESUS IN:
Luke 8:18Take heed therefore
HOW YOU HEAR. DIDN’T HEAR WHAT I STATED?
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given: and whosoever hath not,
THAT ALSO WHICH HE THINKS HE HAS, SHALL BE TAKEN AWAY FROM HIM!
AND THAT’S WHAT HAPPENED TO YOU MIKE!
SO, READ WHAT I SAID AGAIN:
WHEN THE SON OF GOD WAS BORN WE ALL BELIEVE THAT HE WAS PERFECT!
BUT TO PROVE THAT HE WAS PERFECT HE OPTED TO BE IMPERFECT!
SO AGAIN WHEN HE WAS BORN, MIKE?
WHEN HE CAME FORTH FROM WHAT WE ALWAYS BELIEVED A WOMAN ! BUT FOR SURE, SHE WAS THROUGHOUT HER EXISTENCE A VIRGIN
CHEW MIKE! OR ELSE YOU GET CHOKED!
NOW READ, THE SCRIPTURE 2 SAMUEL 7:12 :15, AT THE BOTTOM, AND ANSWER
BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT:
KEEP IN MIND TO REJECT WORLDLY WISDOM, AND TOTALLY RELY AND PRAY YOUR god, SINCE YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN PRAYING TO
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
PERHAPS, YOUR god, WOULD GET THE GO AHEAD FROM THE ONLY GOD IN COMMAND JESUS CHRIST, AND HE GIVES YOU SOME LIGHT,
AS IT IS ALSO WELL DECLARED BY JESUS IN:
John 14:13 Because I go to the Father: and
WHATSOEVER YOU SHALL ASK THE FATHER
( NOTICE THE EMPHASIS: NOT MY FATHER, BUT THE FATHER A REFERENCE TO HIM)
IN MY NAME, OK MIKE? NOT IN THE FATHER'S NAME, NEITHER IN GOD'S NAME! IN JESUS CHRIST'S NAME
what kind of limitations Jesus has Mike? tell me!
SO THERE'S NO NEED TO MENTION THE WORD GOD! OTHERWISE SATAN COULD BE IN A POSITION TO CLAIM THAT WE WOULD IN FACT BE ASKING HIM, SINCE HE CONSIDER HIMSELF THE god OF THE WORLD!
SO FORGET THE TITLE GOD AND JUST ASK JESUS CHRIST OK?
THEN JESUS CONFIRMS HIS ETERNAL SUPERIORITY AND SAID:
:THAT I WILL DO NOT THE FATHER DOES! OK MIKE? OBVIOUS IN ABSOLUTE COMMAND!
SO FOR SURE!
GO AHEAD PRAY TO THE FATHER, BUT IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, OR ELSE YOU WOULD BE IGNORED BY YOUR god !
that the Father AGAIN NOT MY FATHER , [/b] THREE TIMES HE SAID THE FATHER MIKE,
SO HE REFERRED TO HIMSELF AS THE FATHER SO IF A PERSON WOULD REMAIN BLIND, HE WOULD GET WHAT HE SHOULD DESERVE FOR REJECTING JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY FATHER OF ALL THE REDEEMED!
THEN CONCLUDED AND SAID:
may be glorified in the Son.
GOT IT! THE FATHER WOULD BE GLORIFIED IN THE SON!
I WONDER HOW GOD THE FATHER BE GLORIFIED IN SOMEBODY THAT HAS LIMITATIONS LIKE YOU ARE STATING! MR. NONSENSICAL god!
NOTICE THIS VERSE NOW:
14 If you shall ASK ME any thing in MY NAME, that I will do.
Ooooooooo WHAT LIMITATIONS JESUS HAS! THIS TIME HE SAID THAT WHEN YOU ASK JESUS SOMETHING IN HIS OWN NAME, HE SIMPLY EXECUTE IT STRAIGHT AWAY GOT IT MIKE?
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FATHER MIKE? WHY NOT JESUS ASKS THE FATHER? WHETHER HE COULD DO IT OR NOT?
SO IN ORDER TO DISCERN SOME TRUTH IN BLACK ON WHITE,
WHY DON'T YOU ASK
THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST DIRECTLY TO GIVE YOU SOME LIGHT, THE SHORTEST WAY OUT, INSTEAD OF ASKING THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER GOES TO JESUS, AND THEN JESUS GIVES YOU LIGHT?
SO READ AND ANSWER!
NO! NO! YOU WON'T! THIS IS NOT YOUR STUFF!
BUT STILL:
WHAT INIQUITY JESUS WAS IN
WHEN HE WAS BORN ? Mike!
THAT HE DESERVED THIS FROM THE FATHER:
2 Samuel 7:12……………. I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13He shall build a house to my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14I will be to him a father, and he shall be to me a son:
AND IF HE COMMIT ANY INIQUITY ,
I will correct him with the ROD OF MEN, and with the STRIPES OF THE CHILDREN OF MEN. 15But MY MERCY I WILL NOT TAKE AWAY FROM HIM ,………………..
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
[/quote]
Quote So in your mind, “the Father God” was WITH “the Father God” in the beginning? Mike,
YOU SAID THE FATHER!
I MEANT GOD
AND GOD IS NOT JUST THE FATHER! FOR ALL OF US WHO BELIEVE IN A TRIUNE GOD!
THE REASON THAT JOHN NEVER USED THE TERM FATHER!
BUT THE TERM GOD!
AND THE WORD IS THE SON!
AND THE SON IS ALSO GOD, LIKE ALSO THE HOLY SPIRIT IS!
SO I REPEAT:
YES GOD IN JOHN 1:1 IS THE SAME GOD, BUT IN A DIFFERENT PARTICULAR FUNCTION
THAT'S WHY IT IS ENTITLED THE WORD:
ALSO:
THE FATHER IS NOT THE SON, AND VICE VERSA
AND
NO ONE KNOWS WHO THE FATHER BUT THE SON, AND NO ONE KNOWS THE SON BUT THE FATHER!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
kerwin,
are you telling me that paul lied when he said that explanation about gen 1.27 in ep 4.24?
i believe paul and not you. you should go back to school and study english and how to understand the sentence well
mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote And unless the caterpillar in your example can be WITH the very butterfly he will one day become, your analogy doesn't work. Mike,
WHO SAID THAT THE CATERPILLAR, WITHIN HIM IN HIS BOSOM, IN HIS ENTIRE EXISTENCE HASN'T GOT ALL HIS GENUINE ELEMENTS, WHICH EVENTUALLY THROUGH THEM WHEN IT IS TIME IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO FUNCTION AS THE BUTTERFLY?
IN THE SAME SENSE THE FATHER ALSO WAS IN RELATION WITH HIS SON !
WHO SAID THAT THE BUTTERFLY, WITHIN HIMSELF HASN'T GOT ALL THE GENUINE ELEMENTS WHICH ORIGINALLY, HE HIMSELF HAD WHEN HE FUNCTIONED AS A CATERPILLAR?
IN THE SAME SENSE THE SON ALSO WAS IN RELATION WITH HIS FATHER
WHO SAID THAT THE CATERPILLAR IS NOT ALSO HIS OWN BUTTERFLY IN EVERY SENSE SIMPLY IN A DIFFERENT GLORY TOGETHER!
IN THE SAME SENSE ARE ALSO BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON, IN ONE GLORY TOGETHER!
ALSO THE BUTTERFLY, AT THE END, IS TRULY SUPERIOR THAN THE CATERPILLAR, SINCE THROUGH HIM ALSO NATURE FLOURISHES!
WHICH IN THE SAME SENSE, THE SON IS ALSO SUPERIOR AT THE END , SINCE GOD WOULD OWN HIS SON'S KINGDOM AND ETERNALLY WOULD BE:
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 18 2014,21:33) Hi MB,
You say God is in you.
You agree God was in Christ?All of this is by the Spirit.
So Christ and his brothers can be with God without the odd conclusion you reach?[God with God]
The “God can be with God” conclusion is the one YOU reach, Nick. I have never reached the conclusion that “God” can be WITH “God”.Christ can be with God, because Christ isn't God.
Christ's brothers can be with God, because they aren't God either.
God can be in me, you, or Christ without ever being WITH Himself.
So I'm still failing to see what point you're trying to make, or how it allows for a teaching that “the Father” was WITH “the Father” in the beginning.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
