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- Wakeup,Mar. wrote:
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Quote As for your conclusion, Jesus never “became” the Word. Mike,
AGAIN,
NOT QUITE THE TRUTH!
the name JESUS was given by GABRIEL!
THEREFORE FROM GOD!
AND I ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT:
WHAT CONCERNS GOD HIMSELF IS ETERNALLY IN HIM, AND WITH HIM!INCLUDING THE SON JESUS AS A SPIRIT!
SO JESUS THE SON, SPIRITUALLY, WAS ALWAYS JESUS THE SON FROM ETERNITY IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER!
HE SIMPLY WAS NOT YET BEGOTTEN FROM THE FATHER! SPIRITUALLY!
HE WAS NOT YET EMANATED FROM THE FATHER! SPIRITUALLY!
THEN THIS JESUS BECAME
THE WORD HIDDEN WITHIN THE FIRST CREATURE LUCIFER!
TO SUSTAIN HIM ETERNALLY NO MATTER WHAT!
LIKE HE IS SUSTAINED AS AN EVIL CREATURE SERVING
THE WORD GLORIFIED IN THE UNIFICATION OF BOTH SPIRIT,GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT AND FLESH, EX LUCIFER'S SATAN'S
YOU WILL NEVER DISCERN THE TRUTH!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 06 2014,10:34) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 04 2014,08:09) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 04 2014,09:59) …..the main thing I learned from Wallace is that John wrote 1:1 in a way that keeps us from identifying “the Word” with “God”.
it is because you do not understand what wallace said.Christ is God phil 2.6
john 1.1
john 1.18
john 20.28
and many many more verses that give us proof about the deity of Christ.
Phil 2:6 tells us that Jesus was existing in the form OF God. That eliminates him from BEING the God in whose form he was existing.John 1:1 is written in a way that keeps us from identifying the Word with God. I learned that from Mr. Wallace. (Actually, Mr. Wallace just added some more scholarly support to something I have known for years.)
John 1:18 starts off by telling us that no one has seen “God” at any time. So the very fact that the one who wrote those words had indeed seen “Jesus” many times prohibits us from thinking that John himself believed Jesus was the “God” no man had ever seen.
And in 20:28, Thomas addresses Jesus as “God” – the same way the writer of Psalm 45 addressed someone other than Jehovah as “O God”. And just as the fact that the psalm goes on to talk about how the God OF this “O God” person set the “O God” person above his companions, the rest of the gospel of John also explains that Jesus is not the Most High God Himself – but the Son, Servant, Messiah, Prophet, and Priest OF that Most High God. So if you take the entire context into account, you'll be able to see that just being called “god” does NOT equate you with the Almighty God who created all things.
jammin, you can't base your entire Biblical beliefs on a couple of scriptures that have the word “theos” in them. Even Satan is called “theos” in scripture, right?
The vast majority of scripture distinguishes Jesus as someone OTHER THAN “God” over and over again. Start believing those scriptures as well, okay?
do you exist in the FORM OF MAN?yes or no?
if your answer is YES, you should accept that you are MAN by nature.
Christ is God by nature. that is the meaning of phil 2.6. paul did not say in phil 2.6 that he was existing in the form of God therefore it eliminates him from being the GOD in whose form he was existing. your words are different from what the bible said.
you dont understand the meaning of the phil 2.6
john 1.1 tells us that the Word is not the father but the Word is God by nature (wallace also said that).
john 1.18 tells us that God (father) has never seen by any man but only JESUS. JEsus is GOD THE ONLY SON and not the GOD THE FATHER.
john 20.28 thomas did not say O GOD.
what version is that? hahahha
thomas said MY LORD AND MY GOD!
do not fool people mike.do not add words that are not written in the bible.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ Mar. 07 2014,11:08) Hi,
2Cor 4.7
“but we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves”That was the way of Jesus and the apostles and now we too can share this divine blessing
Nick…………Amen to that brother.peace and love. to you and yours…………………gene
To all……….Love is an action word, what you Love you will keep. All thing boil down to Love and Hate, what you hate you are rejecting, what you Love you are Keeping. Therefore it say “may the LORD bless you and KEEP (love) YOU”. Jacob have I loved, Esau have i hated.
God can love and can hate. What he hates he will DESTROY, what he loves he will KEEP. God so “LOVED” the world that he gave his only begotten Son , that whosoever believes on him “SHOULD” not parish, but have life everlasting Love is an ongoing action , just as Hate is an ongoing action.
Therefore he who Hates his brother will destroy him and he is a Murderer, he who loves his brother will try to keep him. It is all about Love and Hate, we are told to LOVE one another. All of God's Commandments are about LOVE, for God, and our Fellow man. Jesus Said that all the commandments hinged on these two things, Love for God and Love for man. Paul described Love, These virtues will be in us, if the Love of God has been “shed around in our hearts”, by his spirit. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………………gene
mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Genesis 2:24-25 doesn't support all those other things you claimed… Mike,
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT SINCE YOU DON'T SEE THINGS THE WAY I DO!
FOR EXAMPLE FOR YOU, ONLY ADAM AND EVE WERE NAKED, FOR ME NOT!
Quote As for what my “entirety” consists of, there are too many things to mention. Nerves, blood cells, skin cells, neurons, legs, hands, eyes, etc.
WITH THE ABOVE MIKE, YOU CONFIRMED THAT YOU REALLY ARE INTERESTED IN THE THINGS OF MEN, ALTHOUGH WE ARE DISCUSSING THE THINGS OF GOD, IN RELATION TO MAN!
THOSE THINGS ARE NOT YOU MIKE,
THOSE THINGS BELONG TO YOUR TEMPORARY BODY!
THOSE ARE YOUR PRISON ELEMENTS!
THOSE THINGS ARE WHAT KEEP YOU DEAD!
YOU SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE, YOU HEAR AND DON'T UNDERSTAND
Quote The “entirety” of Mike Boll would definitely include body, soul, and spirit. NOT EXACTLY!
THE SPIRIT BELONGS TO GOD, SO IT IS NEITHER YOU, NOR YOURS!
THE BODY AS I SAID IS DEAD MATTER,SIMPLY THE CARRIER OF YOUR SOUL!
SO! BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION:
WHEN YOU MAKE USE OF THE FIRST SINGULAR PERSON PRONOUN I,
ARE YOU REFERRING TO YOUR BODY, TO YOUR SOUL, OR TO BOTH?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel,
God is not unique in his righteousness as Jesus and the angels are like him in true holiness and righteousness. In addition believers are called to put on their new selves created like God in true righteousness and holiness.
Jammin,
If you are a believer and your spirit exists in the form of man then you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 07 2014,00:36) the name JESUS was given by GABRIEL!
Scripture?Quote (carmel @ Mar. 07 2014,00:36) SO JESUS THE SON, SPIRITUALLY, WAS ALWAYS JESUS THE SON FROM ETERNITY IN THE BOSOM OF THE FATHER! HE SIMPLY WAS NOT YET BEGOTTEN FROM THE FATHER! SPIRITUALLY!
Sons don't exist from the same moment as their fathers. The word “son” refers to someone who was brought forth into existence BY their father.Also, it is the act of “begetting” that produces a son where there wasn't one before. A son doesn't exist before he is begotten.
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 07 2014,00:36) THEN THIS JESUS BECAME THE WORD HIDDEN WITHIN THE FIRST CREATURE LUCIFER!
TO SUSTAIN HIM ETERNALLY NO MATTER WHAT!
See, now you're just spouting silly stuff that isn't supported by any scripture.Quote (carmel @ Mar. 07 2014,15:16) WHEN YOU MAKE USE OF THE FIRST SINGULAR PERSON PRONOUN I, ARE YOU REFERRING TO YOUR BODY, TO YOUR SOUL, OR TO BOTH?
My body, my soul, and my spirit, Charles.God has given me a spirit to animate me. I agree that it continues to belong to God, but He has given it to me as my own for a short while.
That's why Ecclesiastes 12:7 says our spirit will go back to God who gave it. As long as I'm breathing, that spirit is mine.
Charles, this is the third time I've given you the same basic answer to the same question. How many times must I answer it?
jammin,
Your post isn't worthy of a response. Suffice to say that your Mr. Wallace said it right: John wrote 1:1 in such a way to keep us from identifying the Word with God.
Anything else is just your and his additions to what John wrote.
Btw, if my father is a man, and if I share his nature, then I am also A man. I am not the SAME man, or the SAME being as my father.
Neither is Jesus the SAME god, or the SAME being as his own Father and God, Jehovah.
Hi MB,
Quite so.
He is the Son of God by the anointing of the Spirit.
Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh-holding the treasure in his blessed vessel.“..God has spoken to us through His Son”heb1
Now they are Father and Son in the one Spirit.
We can share in the same anointing and have eternal life in him..
mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote the name JESUS was given by GABRIEL! Scripture?
Mike,
Luke 1:31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
happy?
Quote Sons don't exist from the same moment as their fathers. The word “son” refers to someone who was brought forth into existence BY their father. GOD THE FATHER HAS NO MOMENTS OF EXISTENCE,
HE IS AN ETERNAL EXISTENCE AND SO THE SON!
READ:
1John 1:2For the life was manifested; and we have seen and do bear witness, and declare unto you
THE LIFE ETERNAL,WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER,
and hath APPEARED to us:
SO THE SON WAS ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER, AND APPEARED!
MIKE,
According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship.” This is its meaning in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham's “only begotten son” (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.
The second definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind.” This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight
JESUS AS UNIQUELY GOD'S SON , SHARING THE SAME DIVINE NATURE AS GOD AS OPPOSED TO BELIEVERS WHO ARE GOD'S SONS AND DAUGHTERS BY ADOPTION ( EPHESIANS 1:5).
JESUS IS GOD'S ONE AND ONLY SON.
NOW THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU MIKE, MUST GET IT
INTO YOUR MIND! OK?
READ:
Terms such as “Father” and “Son,” descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity.
SO IN THE TRUTH, NO ONE KNOWS THE FATHER EXCEPT THE SON, AND NO ONE KNOWS THE SON EXCEPT THE FATHER!
NOW SINCE YOU ARE:
A DEAD SUBSTANCE, AND LIVING ONLY IN A CORRUPTED HUMAN GARB! LIKE ALL HUMANS!
SINCE YOU ARE NEVER READY TO ABANDON THE CONCEPT OF PUTTING GOD AND HIS PERSONAL MYSTERIES IN THE SAME BASKET OF FILTHY STINKY HUMANS!
ANSWER:
SINCE YOU COMPARED GOD'S FATHER AND SON CONCEPT IN THE SAME HUMAN TERMS,
DOES GOD THE FATHER OWNS SEXUAL ORGANS?
DOES GOD THE FATHER OWNED ALSO FROM ETERNITY A WIFE IN HIMSELF SINCE HE HAD A SON FROM ETERNITY IN HIS BOSOM?
IF NEITHER HAVE SEXUAL ORGANS, AND NOR A WIFE,
HOW WAS HIS SON BORN, OF MARY,
A MALE,
A FEMALE,
NEITHER A MALE AND NOR A FEMALE,
OR BOTH MALE AND FEMALE,
I REPEAT, SINCE YOU APPLY HUMAN TERMS REGARDING GOD'S PERSONAL THINGS,
AND THESE THINGS ARE ALL ALSO POSSIBLE IN HUMAN TERMS!
MIKE, NOT JUST PICK YOUR FAVOURITE, BUT SUPPORT IT WITH SCRIPTURES
Peace and love inn Jesus
Charles
kerwin,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote God is not unique in his righteousness as Jesus and the angels are like him in true holiness and righteousness. In addition believers are called to put on their new selves created like God in true righteousness and holiness. Kerwin,
YOU REALLY ARE IN A BAD STATE!
UNLESS WITH THE WORD LIKE YOU ARE IN NO WAY UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE ENTIRE CREATION IS IN A WAY PARALLEL WITH IT'S CREATOR!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote My body, my soul, and my spirit, Charles. God has given me a spirit to animate me. I agree that it continues to belong to God, but He has given it to me as my own for a short while.
That's why Ecclesiastes 12:7 says our spirit will go back to God who gave it. As long as I'm breathing, that spirit is mine.
Charles, this is the third time I've given you the same basic answer to the same question. How many times must I answer it?
Mike,
FIRST OF ALL PATIENCE IF YOU KNOW HOW!
SECOND TILL YOU ADMIT THE TRUTH!
Mike, HONESTLY SPEAKING, I DOUBT WHETHER YOU KNOW WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING TO, WITH THE STATEMENT:
AS LONG AS I’M BREATHING,THE SPIRIT IS MINE!
DO YOU MIKE?
HOW COME THAT YOU ARE NOT JUST ONE SUBSTANCE LIKE YOU BELIEVE GOD IS, IF YOU ALSO BELIEVE THAT GOD CREATED YOU IN HIS IMAGE?
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR ENTIRETY MIKE, WHEN AS YOU SAID:
GOD'S SPIRIT WILL LEAVE YOU, ALMOST IN THE SAME MOMENT THAT YOUR BODY DIES?
THEREFORE, IN SIMPLE TERMS:
YOUR ENTIRETY WOULD BE MASSACRED?
WHAT PRONOUN FOR YOU WOULD BE JUSTIFIED JUST FOR OUR ARGUMENT SAKE, MIKE?
wouldn't IT be STILL the I WHICH IN FACT IT WOULD BE THE GENUINE TRUTH! ALTHOUGH YOU WOULDN'T BE A BODY, SOUL, AND SPIRIT BUT JUST
A SOUL WITH ITS GENUINE INTELLECT FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME!
SOMETHING WHICH YOU KEPT ON IGNORING AND PREOCCUPIED TO ADMIT?
SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE IN PITCH DARKNESS! AND TERRORISED OF THE LIGHT THAT YOU WOULD BE CONVERTED!
ALL THIS MIKE DERIVED FROM YOUR STATEMENT HEREUNDER:
Quote If God appointed someone as an heir, then it is clear that this “heir” cannot possibly BE the God who appointed him AS an heir. Again, this is simple common sense. WITH THE SAME ARGUMENT,
NOW IF YOU IN THE BODY COMMIT ENOUGH EVIL DEEDS, AND YOU IN THE SOUL WOULD END UP IN HELL, WOULD YOU SAY TO JESUS, THAT YOUR BODY CANNOT POSSIBLY BE THE ONE WHO COMMITTED THE EVIL DEEDS IN THE SOUL , THEREFORE THE SOUL SHOULD GO TO HEAVEN, AND NOT TO HELL?
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,00:28) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2014,13:12) the name JESUS was given by GABRIEL! Scripture?
Mike,Luke 1:31 Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and shalt bring forth a son; and thou shalt call his name Jesus.
happy?
The name Jesus was “declared” by Gabriel. The way you worded your statement, it seemed to me as if you were saying Gabriel is the one who actually named the Son of God.But anyway, there is nothing in Luke 1 that tells us that this flesh being born of Mary wasn't already named Jesus in heaven before he was born of Mary.
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,00:28) Quote (mikeboll @ 64) Sons don't exist from the same moment as their fathers. The word “son” refers to someone who was brought forth into existence BY their father. GOD THE FATHER HAS NO MOMENTS OF EXISTENCE,
Let me rephrase it then: A father is ALWAYS already in existence BEFORE his son comes into existence. Can you argue against that one?Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,00:28) THE LIFE ETERNAL,WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER, and hath APPEARED to us:
SO THE SON WAS ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER, AND APPEARED!
Jesus is metaphorically “our eternal life”. That means that he is the means by which we can gain eternal life. It doesn't mean Jesus is literally the abstract notion of eternal life itself. Nor does it say anything about Jesus existing FROM eternity.Jesus was the firstborn of every creature. That means God created him first. Then Jesus died. Then his Father and God granted him eternal life so he doesn't have to ever die again. And through him, we also have the chance to be granted eternal life by his God and our God, Jehovah. So in that metaphorical sense, Jesus IS “eternal life”. But he is not literally “eternal life itself”.
Consider that many of us will also be granted eternal life. Like Jesus, we will never have to die again. But the fact that we will be “eternal sons and daughters of God” won't ever mean that any us have existed FROM eternity, right?
So why do you think the fact that Jesus is NOW eternal means he existed FROM eternity like the God who brought him forth?
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,00:28) JESUS AS UNIQUELY GOD'S SON , SHARING THE SAME DIVINE NATURE AS GOD AS OPPOSED TO BELIEVERS WHO ARE GOD'S SONS AND DAUGHTERS BY ADOPTION ( EPHESIANS 1:5). JESUS IS GOD'S ONE AND ONLY SON.
The Greek word “monogenes” is a combination of two Greek words. The first one, “monos”, simply means “alone”, or “only”. The second part, “genes”, is a form of the word “ginomai”, which has as it's first definition: to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being.It's literal meaning is “only-generated”.
I also understand the idiomatic use of the word that refers to a UNIQUE individual – different from all others. This is the meaning in the case of Isaac, who was the son of Abraham in a UNIQUE way. But Isaac also “received being” from Abraham, right?
Likewise, Jesus is a Son of God in a UNIQUE way – a way that no one else can ever be a son of God. But, like Isaac from Abraham, Jesus also “received being” from his Father.
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,00:28) Terms such as “Father” and “Son,” descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity.
First of all, there is no such thing as a “Trinity Godhead”. This is the imagination of men who were inspired by Satan.Secondly, why in the world would God choose to use the human terms “father” and “son” to describe a relationship between two persons in a Godhead who have both existed from eternity?
Why choose THOSE human terms? Surely God understands how we humans understand a “father/son” relationship, right? So if God wanted us to know that He and His Son had both existed from eternity, and were both members of some “Godhead”, He could have come up with terms that would explain such a thing to human beings, right?Yet God chose to use a “father/son” relationship to explain His own relationship with His own Son, Jesus, right? So think about WHY God chose to use that particular relationship to explain His relationship with Jesus to us. Perhaps it was because that particular relationship FITS the situation?
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,00:28) SINCE YOU COMPARED GOD'S FATHER AND SON CONCEPT IN THE SAME HUMAN TERMS, DOES GOD THE FATHER OWNS SEXUAL ORGANS
This part of your post is just more silliness, Charles. Can God raised up sons for Himself from mere stones? Yes. Does He need sexual organs to do it? No.Did God use sexual organs to make His first human son, Adam? No. Did He use sexual organs to make all of His other spirit sons, the angels? No.
Listen Charles, it is clear from your post that you truly WANT Jesus to be this or that, and you are willing to accept nonsense to make that come true for you.
But the bottom line is that God is the one who chose to explain His relationship with Jesus as a “father/son” relationship – knowing full well how we humans would understand such a thing.
And there are many different and easy ways God could have chosen to explain multiple persons in a triune Godhead who have all existed from eternity…….. IF that's what He wanted to explain to us.
But instead, God CHOSE to explain it as a “father/son” relationship. Let that sink in for a while.
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,09:48) Mike, FIRST OF ALL PATIENCE IF YOU KNOW HOW!
My patience has run out, Charles.I don't know what you want from me, or what point you're even trying to prove. And more than that, I don't really even care.
Hi MB,
God makes men His sons by sharing His Spirit with them.
The sons of God are led by the Spirit of GodQuote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2014,13:28) jammin, Your post isn't worthy of a response. Suffice to say that your Mr. Wallace said it right: John wrote 1:1 in such a way to keep us from identifying the Word with God.
Anything else is just your and his additions to what John wrote.
Btw, if my father is a man, and if I share his nature, then I am also A man. I am not the SAME man, or the SAME being as my father.
Neither is Jesus the SAME god, or the SAME being as his own Father and God, Jehovah.
corrrect mike! you got it. you are a MAN! of course you are not your father but you both have the same nature, MAN!christ is not the father. but they have the same nature, God.
that is whay wallace told us that Christ is God. you can read that on the latter part of his statement.
it is very clear that you are decieved by satan mike. may God open your eyes.
Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 08 2014,10:37) Jammin, If you are a believer and your spirit exists in the form of man then you will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
i am a believer. i do exist in the form of man.what about you? what is your form? are you not MAN by nature? yes or no?
Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2014,19:22) kerwin,Mar. wrote:[/quote]
Quote God is not unique in his righteousness as Jesus and the angels are like him in true holiness and righteousness. In addition believers are called to put on their new selves created like God in true righteousness and holiness. Kerwin,
YOU REALLY ARE IN A BAD STATE!
UNLESS WITH THE WORD LIKE YOU ARE IN NO WAY UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT THE ENTIRE CREATION IS IN A WAY PARALLEL WITH IT'S CREATOR!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel,It is not my word but God's word that calls believers to “put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness”,Ephesians 4:24 You either choose to believe that or not. That choice is what faith and testing your heart is all about.
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