JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 21 2014,06:01)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 20 2014,21:32)

Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 20 2014,11:49)

What about verse 36, and 37

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Ps 89:36 that his line will continue forever
and his throne endure before me like the sun;
Ps 89:37 it will be established forever like the moon,
the faithful witness in the sky.”

David's line is still around and unless you consider Jesus' death as disqualifying him from fulfilling that Scripture, then he will always be.

Jesus' either sits or will sit on David's throne.

I do not know why the moon is said to be established forever or why it is said to be a faithful witness.

YES ,I believe that it is talking about Christ the king of the Jews that will sit on the throne of David forever ,

So we are agreed on that point. The Psalmist was simply singing of the greatness of God for the promise he made to David while subtly reminding the king currently sitting on David's throne to do right in the name of the Lord.

February 21, 2014 at 6:59 pm#371601

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 21 2014,19:55)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2014,10:50)

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 20 2014,22:43)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2014,01:58)

peace and love to you all………………………………………gene

my word can not be addressed as HE.

do you understand that?

unless you do not know basic english

Jammin,

In Koine Greek it is as word is masculine.

John 1:3-5
1599 Geneva Bible (GNV)

3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made.

4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

5 And that light shineth in the wilderness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not.

you dont know greek kerwin. your argument here proves that you do not have enough knowledge about the greek language.

Jammin,

The writers of the Geneva bible used “it” instead of “he”.

February 21, 2014 at 7:08 pm#371602

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2014,16:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2014,06:14)

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 19 2014,23:40)

Mike,

Wisdom was brought forth in the same way as the word even though God has always possessed it.

Kerwin,

Do you think literal wisdom is a living breathing entity, separate from God?

If not, then it is not the same thing.

Mike,

I believe God's Wisdom took on the attribute of being a person at the same time God's Word as you cannot have one without the other.

I have more to say but I am not at my best right now.

Mike,

Jesus personalizes wisdom as well as the word. I believe that is the same as saying the aspect of being a person is added to the word but all Scripture actually says is that the word was given the aspect of flesh.

February 22, 2014 at 9:23 am#371605

Participant

mikeboll64,Feb. wrote:

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…….SATAN HAD THE RIGHT TO POSSESS ALL SOULS FROM BIRTH WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SELECT DUE TO ADAM'S SIN………
I have never heard such a thing, nor can I read anything about it in scripture
So what's the point? It's like we are speaking different languages.

Mike,

There are events, statements, and words in the bible that are not visible for all who read the bible, or they are visible in a different understanding

! SO THE FACT THAT YOU NEVER READ AND HEARD OF THEM IT DOESN’T MEAN THAT THEY ARE NOT IN A WAY WRITTEN, OR THE EVENTS NEVER OCCURRED!

Heaven net is a proof of what I just stated!

We are all Christians, BUT WE SEE THINGS DIFFERENT ALTHOUGH WE READ THE SAME GOSPEL! THE SAME WORDS!

ALTHOUGH IN ALMOST ALL CASES IT IS NOT THE SAME BIBLE! SIMPLY DUE TO THE SAME COMMON REASON THAT THEIR AUTHORS SEE DIFFERENT THE MOST VITAL PARTS OF THE BIBLE

SO YOUR POINT IS USELESS!

NOW READ THESE PIECES OF SCRIPTURE, AND DEFINE THEM FOR ME, AND CONFIRM YOUR DEFINITE CONCLUSIONS WHETHER FROM PENTECOST, FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME, THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE FATHER IN THE GLORY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, UNOFFICIALLY, JUSTIFIED ONCE AND FOR ALL, ON THE CROSS IS WITHIN ALL SOULS FROM BIRTH!

John12:31 Now is the judgment of the world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.

CONCENTRATE UPON:

JUDGEMENT OF THE WORLD!

THE PRINCE OF THE WORLD WOULD BE CAST OUT!

I WILL DRAW ALL THINGS TO MYSELF!

John 10:14 I am the good shepherd; and I know mine, and mine know me. 15 As the Father knoweth me, and I know the Father: and I lay down my life for my sheep.

MY SHEEP!

I WONDER WHO ARE JESUS CHRIST’S SHEEP?

16And other sheep I have, that are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.

ALSO I WONDER WHO ARE THESE OTHER SHEEP, WHO ALSO BELONG TO JESUS CHRIST, BUT NOT OF THE SAME FOLD

10:26 But you do not believe, because you are not of my sheep

THOSE WHO ARE NOT OF JESUS CHRIST’S SHEEP WE KNOW, OBVIOUS SATAN’S DIRECT HUMAN BEINGS UP TO JESUS’ TIME, AND TILL ALL RACES EVENTUALLY DIED, AND ARE NOT IN THIS WORLD ANYMORE, WHICH IS DEFINTELY THIS TIME

. 27My sheep hear my voice: and I know them, and they follow me.

I WONDER ALSO WHEN DO THESE SHEEP HEAR JESUS CHRIST’S VOICE, WHEN THEY ARE ALREADY HIS? WHICH DOESN’T MAKE SENSE SINCE THEY ARE HIS!

OR WHEN THEY ARE NOT YET HIS IN ORDER TO HEAR HIM AND BECOME HIS

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

February 22, 2014 at 9:56 am#371606

Participant

Gene wrote:

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Jesus took no Glory for what the Father was doing through Him. IMO

Gene,

EXPLAIN:

John17:1 THESE things Jesus spoke, and lifting up his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour is come, GLORIFY YOUR SON, that thy Son may glorify thee.

4I have glorified thee on the earth;

I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

5 AND NOW GLORIFY YOU ME, O Father, with thyself, with the glory which I had, before the world was, with thee.

10 And all my things are thine, and thine are mine;AND I AM GLORIFIED IN THEM.

THERE ARE MORE, BUT THESE WOULD CONVINCE YOU THAT

JESUS CHRIST WAS, IS, AND REMAIN GLORIFIED IN THE SAME GLORY OF THE FATHER FOR ETERNITY

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

February 22, 2014 at 3:37 pm#371609

Participant

mikeboll64,Feb. wrote:

[/quote]

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Mike,

WITH REGARDS TO THE ABOVE, READ THESE VERSES!

34 Jesus answered them: Amen, amen I say unto you: that whosoever committeth sin, is the servant of sin.

35Now the SERVANT ABIDETH NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER, BUT THE SON ABIDETH FOREVER,

36IF THEREFORE THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE, YOU SHALL BE FREE INDEED!

NOW CAN YOU READ AND SEE WHAT THE WORDS:
SERVANT, and HOUSE REPRESENT?

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

February 22, 2014 at 5:01 pm#371611

Participant

Wakeup,Feb. wrote:

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THE HS IS NOT FREE FOR ALL.
Meaning; not all are baptised with the HS,since birth.
The HS is only given to them that are seeking God with their
heart. HS means HOLY. HE CAN NOT RESIDE IN TEMPLES
OF DEMONS.

WAKEUP,

YOU RUSH TO CONCLUSION!

WHO SAID THAT ALL ARE BAPTISED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT SINCE BIRTH?

I SAID THE HOLY SPIRIT UNOFFICIALLY IS WITHIN ALL SOULS THROUGH THE WORD SO NOT YET BAPTISED!

BUT FROM THAT VERY MOMENT, THE HOLY SPIRIT, UNOFFICIALLY IS WORKING HIDDEN IN THE WORD

SO SINCE THE WORD IS WITHIN ALL CREATURES NO MATTER WHAT, SIMPLY BECAUSE ALL WAS CREATED BY HIM, AND IN HIM!

THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THE TRUTH, THROUGH THAT PARTICULAR JUSTICE!

IS DOING THE OPPOSITE WORK WHICH SATAN UNJUSTIFIED THROUGH LIES, DID BEFORE REDEMPTION WHEN HE WAS HIDDEN AND WAS WORKING IN ALL SOULS MAKING THEIR HEART OF STONES!

SO THE HOLY SPIRIT TOPPLED SATAN'S EVIL SPIRIT WORK, AND NOW HE IS DOING THE OPPOSITE WORK WITHIN ALL SOULS, WHICH IS HOLY! TILL THE SOULS HEAR HIS VOICE AND BE CONVERTED!

SINCE BEFORE THEY COULDN'T DUE TO THE FACT THAT SATAN UNJUSTLY THROUGH HIS LIES OCCUPIED ALL SOULS THROUGH ADAM SIN!

SO WHEN THEY HEAR THE HOLY SPIRIT VOICE, THEN THEY WILL BE OFFICIALLY BAPTISED BY HOLY SPIRIT! THEY WOULD OFFICIALLY DECLARE HIM THROUGH THEIR DEEDS!

THE HOLY SPIRIT BLOWS WHERE HE WILLS, HE IS IN COMMAND, AND HE HIMSELF CHOOSES WHOM HE WANTS, EVEN IF THAT PARTICULAR PERSON IS MOST EVIL

LIKE PAUL WAS!

SO IT IS THROUGH THE WORD WHOM THE FATHER SEALED IN ALL CREATION,THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKS,

THE WORD AS I EXPLAINED IS:

THE SON'S SPIRIT,

WHO LEFT THE FATHER, WITH THE FULL POWER OF THE TRIUNE GOD, WITHIN!

THEREFORE THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN, PLUS THE FATHER'S FROM HEAVEN!

THE LAMB OF GOD WHO WAS SLAIN FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD REV 13:8

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

February 22, 2014 at 5:03 pm#371612

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2014,08:55)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 21 2014,11:18)

My words are not “ME”. They are my words.

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

Gene,

You spouted nonsensical gibberish, and then accused ME of being the idiot for not understanding your nonsensical gibberish.

This is what your post looks like to me:

Black five in sky wave has when jump little frog six mouse fantastic wish God.

Mike, how can anyone take you seriously when you can't understand that crap I just wrote?

Listen carefully Gene,

When the scripture says “the word of God” came to Elijah, or whoever, do you understand it to mean that the Almighty being of God Himself came personally to Elijah?

When God gave us the 10 commandments (literally called “the ten words“), are you saying that all those commandments are God Himself, and we should therefore WORSHIP all 10 of the commandments?

For example, God said, “You shall not commit murder”.

Is the word “YOU” God Himself?

Is the word “SHALL” God Himself?

Is the word “NOT” God Himself?

Is the word “COMMIT” God Himself?

Is the word “MURDER” God Himself?

Shall we worship the word “YOU”, because God once said that word, which makes that word the very God who said it?

Come on, Gene. You are smarter than this.

The reason they are called the words OF God is because they are things OF God, and not God Himself.

The servant OF God is not God Himself. The Messiah OF God is not God Himself. The wrath OF God is not God Himself.

In fact, NOTHING that can be said to be OF someone can actually BE the person it is OF.

Didn't you learn this in first grade?

It truly AMAZES me to see all the different ASININE theories people have come up with because of that flawed “and the Word was God” translation of John 1:1.

We've got jammin thinking Jesus IS the God he was WITH.

We've got Gene spouting nonsense about a person's words actually being the person whose words they are.

We've got Wakeup thinking that something that used to BE God Almighty Himself, stopped being God and became a being other than God.

We've got Kerwin thinking that an actual utterance from God's mouth became a living entity, who later “took on the attributes” of a human being.

All of this stuff is pure NONSENSE guys.

Jesus is not God Himself, but the Son OF God. And God has spoken millions of words since creation – why did only that first “utterance” become a living entity? And how did that utterance end up becoming God's Son? Do literal words become people's offspring?

So listen up, all of you:

Jesus is metaphorically called “The Word of God” because he is God's main spokesman. The King of Abyssinia also had a spokesman who was metaphorically called “The Word of the King”. It is not so hard to grasp.

Neither of these people were a LITERAL WORD spoken from the mouth of God or the King of Abyssinia. It is a METAPHORICAL TITLE!

Now Jesus, who had the title “The Word of God”, dwelled with much glory alongside his God and Creator before the world began. He was existing in the form of God (which means “as a powerful spirit being like his God”) before he was made into the likeness of a human being. And as a “powerful spirit being”, he is rightly called “a god” in John 1:1, because in that culture, powerful spirit beings were often called gods. This fact is all throughout the scriptures, guys. So John 1:1 really speaks about “a god” who was with “THE God, Jehovah”.

After Jesus BECAME FLESH (a phrase that could only be used of someone who wasn't flesh becoming flesh), he spent his years on earth glorifying, not HIMSELF, but his God who SENT him to the earth for a specific purpose.

Then this wonderful SERVANT of our God was crucified. But his and our God raised him from the dead, and brought him BACK to heaven (“What if you see me ascend to WHERE I WAS BEFORE?”).

He now sits at the right hand of his and our God with even more glory than the glory he left when he became flesh.

This is what the scriptures teach. They teach this over and over and over, through many different writings of many different disciples.

When will you guys figure this easy teaching out? When will you believe?

February 22, 2014 at 5:22 pm#371615

Participant

Quote

Jesus personalizes wisdom as well as the word.

Kerwin,

I agree with that 100 %!

JESUS PERSONALIZES WISDOM, AND THROUGH THAT WE COULD ALSO CONCLUDE THAT

JESUS PERSONALIZED ALSO FEMINISM SINCE SCRIPTURES IN SOLOMON, PROVERBS, AND JOB PROCLAIMED WISDOM AS FEMININE!

ALSO CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT SOLOMON WAS GIVEN THE SPIRIT OF WISDOM, SYMBOLICALLY THE FEMININE ASPECT OF GOD,

WHO WAS THE SON OF DAVID,LIKE JESUS WAS,

AND ALSO SIGNIFICANTLY SOLOMON ENDED WITH 700 WIVES, AND 300 CONCUBINES,

ALSO SIGNIFICANTLY ARE THE 7, AND 3 WHICH BOTH ARE NUMBERS ATTRIBUTED TO GOD!

COMPLETION AND PERFECTION RESPECTIVELY!

THE SEVEN SPIRIT OF GOD, and

THE TRIUNE GOD WITHIN THE WORD

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

February 22, 2014 at 5:24 pm#371616

Blocked

Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 20 2014,20:28)

Mike B.

Angels are created creatures.
The Word of God is not created.

Wakeup,

If “The Word of God” DIDN'T used to be an individual living breathing being, but then BECAME an individual living breathing being, that individual living breathing being HAD A BEGINNING.

And things that have existed from eternity do NOT have a BEGINNING.

So your two choices are:

1. There has ALWAYS been both God AND this other living breathing being.

2. There used to be ONLY God, and then this other living breathing being CAME INTO EXISTENCE.

And since #2 is the ONLY logical choice, and this other living breathing being CAME INTO EXISTENCE from the power of God, then God CREATED that other living breathing being. (Also, Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14 confirm that this other living breathing being was the first CREATION God ever made.)

There is no scripture that says “The Word” is from everlasting. And there is no scripture that identifies “The Word OF God” with “The Everlasting Father”.

These are simply misunderstandings you have come to believe as truth.

As for the “angel” thing, let me try to educate you once again:

Are you aware that both the Hebrew and Greek words translated as “angel” in English Bibles really just mean “messenger”? Well, now you ARE aware.

And when the English translator believes that the “messenger” in question is a SPIRIT messenger, he uses the ENGLISH (not Hebrew or Greek) word “angel”.

So, read Revelation 1:1 to see that Jesus was delivering a MESSAGE from his God Jehovah. That makes him one of God's MESSENGERS – even as he was during his days on earth. But by the time of John's revelation, Jesus was a SPIRIT being again, which makes him a SPIRIT messenger of his God.

And a SPIRIT messenger, according to the English translators, is called “an angel”.

So there you have it. Jesus is, by very definition, an ANGEL of his and our God, Jehovah.

February 22, 2014 at 5:30 pm#371617

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2014,04:50)

Mike,

I believe God's Wisdom took on the attribute of being a person at the same time God's Word as you cannot have one without the other.

You have yet to explain what “taking on the attribute of being a person” entails.

Please explain what exactly that means before continuing to use that wording.

February 22, 2014 at 5:33 pm#371618

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 21 2014,08:36)

Jammin…….Kerwin is right, the word in Greek used there is ” ek-i'-mos” it's the same word for “IT” as well as He.

Gene,

The pronouns are written in the masculine form in the Greek language. That means “HE” instead of “IT”. (“IT” would have been written in the neuter form.)

So you guys can argue that “IT” is a possible meaning, since the word “logos” is a masculine word in the Greek language, but then you'd be going against the context of the entire chapter of John 1, which eventually tells us who this “HE” is.

Unless of course, you believe “Jesus” is an “IT”.

February 22, 2014 at 5:40 pm#371619

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Mike………So your Words are not a expression of yourself, O really?, they do not come from YOU, they are Not an expression of Your mind coming FROM YOU . Right? So Mike tell us whose words are you speaking then, if not your own, Now talk about stupid, ignorant, Gibberish,

Any on with half a brain can see a Persons words “ARE” a Representative of HIS MIND, unless he is quoting someone else, then it's that persons words he is quoting, not his words.

You feed us all this crap about the word elephant not “meaning” an elephant. You try so desperately to make a word totally separate from it source. Twisting up what i have said about the ten commandments of God, not being GOD own Expression from his MIND is what is garbage IMO.

Then you try to tell us God's word Identify's another Person. NO MIKE GOD'S WORDS ARE NOT”another PERSON, THEY ARE EXPRESSION OF A PERSON “MIND” and in this case it is GOD's MIND.. Basic common sense 101!

God and his Word which come from his mind, are one and the same thing, Just as you and your words are one and the same thing , why because you word express who “YOU Mentally “ARE”. So does God our FATHER express who He is by “HIS” WORDS, and those words are not Jesus, or Jesus' words, they are GOD the FATHERS WORDS> IMO

The Basic meaning for a Word is , INTELLIGENT UTTERANCE and the UTTERANCE if coming from you IS YOU> IT IS NOT SEPARATE FROM YOU , NOT IN THIS LIFE OR THE LIFE TO COME. We will all be Judged by OUR WORDS, why MIKE, if as you say our words are not rally us., then why would God Judge us buy them?

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………gene

February 22, 2014 at 5:45 pm#371621

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2014,12:08)

Mike,

Jesus personalizes wisdom as well as the word. I believe that is the same as saying the aspect of being a person is added to the word………….

Kerwin,

You are talking in riddles – which would explain why Charles immediately grasped what you said.

Are you saying that the qualities of wisdom and God's word (His knowledge, teachings, instructions, commands, etc.) are personified in the living breathing being Jesus Christ?

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2014,12:08)

……. but all Scripture actually says is that the word was given the aspect of flesh.

Scripture says no such thing. Scripture says “the Word BECAME flesh”.

You are just adding your own riddles to this clear and easy to understand statement.

February 22, 2014 at 5:50 pm#371623

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Feb. 22 2014,02:23)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 18 2014,09:06)

Quote (Carmel @ 85)

…….SATAN HAD THE RIGHT TO POSSESS ALL SOULS FROM BIRTH WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SELECT DUE TO ADAM'S SIN………

I have never heard such a thing, nor can I read anything about it in scripture
So what's the point? It's like we are speaking different languages.

Mike,

There are events, statements, and words in the bible that are not visible for all who read the bible……….

Charles,

Your post is too long and rambling for me to make heads or tails out of it.

You have only two choices here:

1. Post a CLEAR scripture that can CLEARLY teach me the things you've claimed in your quote above. (Only ONE scripture at a time.)

2. Walk away knowing that I will NEVER believe the many things you claim UNLESS you can show them to me in the scriptures.

February 22, 2014 at 6:01 pm#371625

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 22 2014,10:40)

Mike………So your Words are not a expression of yourself………..

Any on with half a brain can see a Persons words “ARE” a Representative of HIS MIND

See the word “OF”, Gene?

Do you know what that word means? I learned it at a very early age. Have you not yet learned it?

If my words are an expression OF myself, then they can't possibly BE “myself”.

If they are a representative OF my mind, then they can't very well BE “my mind”.

Can you understand these things?

February 22, 2014 at 6:19 pm#371626

Participant

Mike,

Quote

Are you saying that the qualities of wisdom and God's word (His knowledge, teachings, instructions, commands, etc.) are personified in the living breathing being Jesus Christ?

Yes.

Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 21 2014,12:08)

……. but all Scripture actually says is that the word was given the aspect of flesh.

Quote

Scripture says no such thing. Scripture says “the Word BECAME flesh”.

After the word became flesh is is said that The word is flesh. You acknowledge that God is love means love is an aspect of God so you should see that The word is flesh means flesh is an aspect of the word. Given that the word was made flesh means that the word was made to have the aspect of flesh..

February 22, 2014 at 6:25 pm#371629