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Quote (carmel @ Jan. 22 2014,12:28) ANSWER THIS 1Kings 4:29 And God gave to Solomon wisdom
SOLOMON WAS NEVER BORN WITHOUT HIS OWN WISDOM!
Yes Charles,God gave Solomon more wisdom than he already had. And that verse speaks of LITERAL wisdom, which basically means “knowing things”.
Quote (carmel @ Jan. 22 2014,12:28) BUT THE KIND OF WISDOM SOLOMON WANTED WAS EXTRAORDINARY THEREFORE NOT WORLDLY WISDOM BUT GOD’S, AND HIS WRITING IS A PROOF OF IT! EVEN JESUS MENTIONED SOLOMON’S WISDOM!
I guess since ALL wisdom that ANYONE has EVER had originally came FROM God, we could say that ALL wisdom is “God's wisdom” – since He is the one who GAVE it to us.But no, Solomon was never as wise as God Himself. God simply bestowed more “human wisdom” on Solomon than He generally bestows on everyone else.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2014,10:05) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,20:18) Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. POSSESSED ME.
The correct translation is “CREATED”, Wakeup.Compare the following verses:
Proverbs 8 KJV
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
These verses tell us of a TIME when this “wisdom” began to exist. And the TIME this happened was long ago – before there were fountains of water and mountains. But there was still a TIME when he was indeed “brought forth”.
Mikeb.Wisdom was brought forth,does not mean wisdom *was not* before he was brought forth.
God is from everlasting and his wisdom is always with Him.
There was not a time when God had no wisdom.
But there was a time when His wisdom was brought forth.wakeup.
Quote (jammin @ Jan. 23 2014,22:12) why so many verses??? the topic is only john 1.1 the Word of God is Chrst himself
Jammin.Yes, Jesus was the Word made flesh.
wakeup.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 23 2014,18:07) Quote (jammin @ Jan. 23 2014,22:12) why so many verses??? the topic is only john 1.1 the Word of God is Chrst himself
Jammin.Yes, Jesus was the Word made flesh.
wakeup.
WNOT ONLY WAS BUT “IS “
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2014,04:56) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 20 2014,21:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 20 2014,00:25) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 18 2014,15:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2014,00:41) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 16 2014,21:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2014,04:31) The follow up question is about Revelation 19:13. In that verse, does the phrase “the Word of God” still just refer to an unnamed thing that is poetically being personified as a living being? Or does that phrase refer to an actual living person?
Mike,Yes it does but then it states a person is called by the same name as it why means.
You are wrong on that one, Kerwin. The Word of God in Revelation 19:13 is a specific person. He is the same person who is also called the Lord of lords and King of kings.The Lord of lords and King of kings is not a “thing” that is merely being personified. He is a real living person.
Mike,Do you see the phrase “called by the name of the word of God” being equivalent to “bearing the title of the word of God”?
Absolutely Kerwin…….. why not?
We could also say that Kal Hatze, the word of the King of Abyssinia, has as one of his NAMES, “The Word of the King”.
We could also say that Barak Obama has as one of his NAMES, “Mr. President”.
Agreed?
Mike,I believe name is synonymous with title but some like wakeup seems to disagree.
But this isn't about Wakeup, Kerwin.This is about the one with the name “The Word of God” being a real live PERSON in Revelation 19:13. Do you agree that the title/name refers to a real live PERSON in that verse?
Mike,I believe that one called by the name of the word of God is a person but I also acknowledge Revelations is a book of prophecy and so it is filled with symbolism.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2014,05:38) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 22 2014,06:25) ……God is not a person…….
Oops. I guess not. I didn't read quite far enough before I answered.
Yes Kerwin, God has a PERSONALITY, which means He is a PERSON.
Mike,That time it is me that is too strict on applying a definition.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 23 2014,05:05) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 21 2014,20:18) Proverbs 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old. POSSESSED ME.
The correct translation is “CREATED”, Wakeup.Compare the following verses:
Proverbs 8 KJV
24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:
These verses tell us of a TIME when this “wisdom” began to exist. And the TIME this happened was long ago – before there were fountains of water and mountains. But there was still a TIME when he was indeed “brought forth”.
Mike,Bought is a pretty good parallel to the Hebrew as both mean purchase. I have not looked into the forth. It does not disagree with your interpretation as Jesus was bought forth of a woman.
wakeup[/quote]
Wakeup,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote God brought forth His Word, and given Him a form like God's own image. WAKEUP,
NOT HIS WORD EXACTLY, ALTHOUGH HE WAS GOD’S WORD, BUT WE MUST DISTINGUISH IT FROM GOD'S ACTUAL WORDS!
SO:
THE WORDYES GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE WORD!
NOTICE IN THE SINGULAR, SIMPLY TO SIGNIFY AN ENTITY!
PAUL MADE IT CLEAR AND SAID:
For the word of God is living and effectual, THIS IS A REFERENCE TO JESUS CHRIST'S POWER IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.
This is confirmed by Jesus :
John 16: 14 He shall GLORIFY ME ; because he shall RECEIVE OF MINE, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, ARE MINE. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you.
THIS IS JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY GOD IN FLESH
SO THE FATHER RECEIVED ALL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES OF JESUS, AND ACHIEVED MANHOOD!
THE FATHER NEVER EXPERIENCED DEATH,PAIN, HUNGER, AND ALL THE REST, BUT IN JESUS CHRIST HE DID
ALSO: NOT GIVEN Him a form like God's own image.
GOD NEVER HAD AN IMAGE EVEN NOW! HE IS THE MOST PERFECT GENUINE UNIQUE SPIRIT GOD IS UNKNOWN TO ALL HIS CREATURES, THE REASON THAT HE SENT HIS SON INTO HIS ENEMIES REALM, THE WORLD! TO MANIFEST HIMSELF IN THE WAY ALL HIS ENEMIES BELIEVED THAT IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE, AND ONLY THEY WOULD ACHIEVE IT THROUGH THE ANTICHRIST!
SO THE WORD MADE FLESH,
WAS THE ONLY FORM AND GOD'S EVER IMAGE!
Quote The Word is not God Himself,but something He owns.
The Holy Spirit is something He owns.
Wisdom is something He owns.WRONG:
THE WORD WAS GOD! HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD! HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT
WISDOM IS AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD BUT ALSO HIS SPIRIT
WHATEVER GOD OWNS IS A SPIRIT!
READ:
ISAIAH 11:2 And the SPIRIT of the Lord shall rest upon him: the SPIRIT of wisdom, and of understanding, the SPIRIT of counsel, and of fortitude, the SPIRIT of knowledge, and of godliness.
3And he shall be filled with the SPIRIT of the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge according to the sight of the eyes, nor reprove according to the hearing of the ears.
OK CLEAR ENOUGH, SO WISDOM IS BOTH AN ATTRIBUTE AND A SPIRIT OF GOD
Quote It was the Word that was made flesh;not God himself.
God gave his only begotten Son to the world; not Himself.
The Word made flesh died on the cross;not God.YES : BUT THE WORD WAS GOD IN FLESH FORM, THEREFORE GOD AS MAN,
NO HE HIMSELF IN HIS SON, MANIFESTED IN HIS SON
THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT , AND HIS ONLY UNIQUE EMBODIMENT IS THE WORD MADE FLESH, JESUS CHRIST!
THE WORD MADE FLESH, GOD AS MAN, THE FATHER AS JESUS CHRIST! NOT AS A SPIRIT DIED ON THE CROSS,
JESUS AS A PERSON WITHIN HIMSELF HAD TWO NATURES, MAN AND GOD!
THAT WAS SATAN'S ILLUSION, THAT GOD WOULD NEVER ACHIEVE MANHOOD, CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT MAN BECAME SATAN'S ABODE through ADAM'S SIN!
IT HAD TO BE GOD, HIMSELF AS MAN! IN JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD MADE FLESH!
THE ONLY WAY TO TOPPLE SATAN'S KINGDOM!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
terraricca,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote NOT ONLY WAS BUT “IS ” Terraricca,
I'm afraid that's A HUGE ERROR
THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, DIED, AND GLORIFIED AND OWNS A UNIQUE ETERNAL BODY, WITH THE FATHER, THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!
NO LONGER WILL FLESH AND BLOOD BE GOD'S WORD EMBODIMENT!
FOR SURE!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
kerwin,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Bought is a pretty good parallel to the Hebrew as both mean purchase. I have not looked into the forth. It does not disagree with your interpretation as Jesus was bought forth of a woman. Kerwin
Come on, I learn't this in grade 1.
“Brought” does not mean “buy”“Brought” is the past tense of “Bring”
“Bought” is the past tense of “buy”Quote (carmel @ Jan. 24 2014,02:53) terraricca,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote NOT ONLY WAS BUT “IS ” Terraricca,
I'm afraid that's A HUGE ERROR
THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH, DIED, AND GLORIFIED AND OWNS A UNIQUE ETERNAL BODY, WITH THE FATHER, THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH!
NO LONGER WILL FLESH AND BLOOD BE GOD'S WORD EMBODIMENT!
FOR SURE!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
charlesjust show me your scripture ,
here is mine ;JN 17:5 “Now, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 23 2014,00:24)
God is from everlasting and his wisdom is always with Him.
There was not a time when God had no wisdom.
And that right there should tell you that the “wisdom” in Proverbs 8:22-31 is not LITERAL wisdom, but a PERSON who is metaphorically being called “wisdom”.This wisdom was “created as the first of God's works”, “given birth before there were springs of water”, and “born before the mountains were set in place”.
Those are the phrases used in the more recent English Bibles. And those phrases don't disagree with the KJV's “brought forth” – they just do a better job of identifying what is meant by the KJV's translation of “brought forth”.
So the KJV translation is correct in verses 24 and 25 – it's just that you're going out of your way to misunderstand the clear phrase, “Before the mountains were settled, I was brought forth”.
What does it mean when you say there wasn't a time when God didn't HAVE wisdom, but there WAS a time before He “brought that wisdom forth”?
In what way are you thinking God brought His wisdom forth? What does that mean in your mind?
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 23 2014,10:50) Mike, I believe that one called by the name of the word of God is a person but I also acknowledge Revelations is a book of prophecy and so it is filled with symbolism.
Okay, but the bottom line is that you realize that the one who rides on a white horse and is called by the name “The Word of God” IS in fact a real, live PERSON?Is that correct?
Quote (carmel @ Jan. 23 2014,14:46) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 23 2014,07:24) God brought forth His Word, and given Him a form like God's own image.
WAKEUP,NOT HIS WORD EXACTLY, ALTHOUGH HE WAS GOD’S WORD, BUT WE MUST DISTINGUISH IT FROM GOD'S ACTUAL WORDS!
Amen Charles!And then, we must distinguish the Word OF God from God Himself.
Mike………Tell us, can you separate your words from your “Self”, and your words from who you “ARE” ? Tell us how you do that. This a may be interesting, please enlighten us Mike.
peace and love…………………………………..gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 24 2014,10:31) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 23 2014,00:24)
God is from everlasting and his wisdom is always with Him.
There was not a time when God had no wisdom.
And that right there should tell you that the “wisdom” in Proverbs 8:22-31 is not LITERAL wisdom, but a PERSON who is metaphorically being called “wisdom”.This wisdom was “created as the first of God's works”, “given birth before there were springs of water”, and “born before the mountains were set in place”.
Those are the phrases used in the more recent English Bibles. And those phrases don't disagree with the KJV's “brought forth” – they just do a better job of identifying what is meant by the KJV's translation of “brought forth”.
So the KJV translation is correct in verses 24 and 25 – it's just that you're going out of your way to misunderstand the clear phrase, “Before the mountains were settled, I was brought forth”.
What does it mean when you say there wasn't a time when God didn't HAVE wisdom, but there WAS a time before He “brought that wisdom forth”?
In what way are you thinking God brought His wisdom forth? What does that mean in your mind?
Mikeb.Quote
And that right there should tell you that the “wisdom” in Proverbs 8:22-31 is not LITERAL wisdom, but a PERSON who is metaphorically being called “wisdom”.
1.*BEFORE* CREATION STARTED.
2.GOD DID NOT SPEAK.THERE WAS JUST GOD. *ALONE*
3.THEN HE SPOKE BY BRINGING FORTH A BEING IN HIS
OWN IMAGE.
4.WITHIN HIM IS ALL GOD'S WISDOM, AND POWER TO
CREATE.HE IS CALLED, *THE WORD OF GOD*.WITH ALL
WISDOM, POWER, AND KNOWLEDGE.Quote
This wisdom was “created as the first of God's works”, “given birth before there were springs of water”, and “born before the mountains were set in place”.
1.NO CREATURE IS *BORN* IN HEAVEN.
2.ANGELS ARE CREATED;SIMPLY BROUGHT INTO
EXISTENCE,IN A SPIRIT BODY.THEY ARE NOT BORN.Quote
Those are the phrases used in the more recent English Bibles. And those phrases don't disagree with the KJV's “brought forth” – they just do a better job of identifying what is meant by the KJV's translation of “brought forth”.
1.BROUGHT FORTH SIMPLY MEANS,BRINGING INTO
EXISTENCE. NOT *BORN*
2.ADAM WAS NOT BORN,BUT BROUGHT INTO EXISTENCE
IN THE FLESH.HEWAS MADE,CREATED BY GOD'S WORD.Quote
So the KJV translation is correct in verses 24 and 25 – it's just that you're going out of your way to misunderstand the clear phrase, “Before the mountains were settled, I was brought forth”.
1.THAT *I*: HE IS THE WORD, AS A BEING,AND ALL WISDOM
WITH HIM.(THERE CAN BE NO WISDOM;WITHOUT A
PERSON OR BEING.
2.THERE CAN BE NO LOVE WITHOUT A PERSON, OR BEING.
ONLY THE SPIRIT OF LOVE WHICH IS IN GOD.
3.THERE IS NO WISDOM WITHOUT THE BEING CALLED GOD.
4.THERE IS NO WORD WITHOUT GOD.
5.THERE IS NO HOLY SPIRIT WITHOUT GOD.
6.THERE IS NOTHING WITHOUT GOD.Quote
What does it mean when you say there wasn't a time when God didn't HAVE wisdom, but there WAS a time before He “brought that wisdom forth”?
1.IT MEANS THAT WISDOM IS FROM EVERLASTING IN GOD.
2.HIS WORD ALSO FROM EVERLASTING IN GOD.
3. UNTILL GOD DECIDED TO CREATE,AND BROUGHT
FORTH HIS WORD. BY SPEAKING.(SPOKE)
(NOT GIVE BIRTH).Quote
In what way are you thinking God brought His wisdom forth? What does that mean in your mind?
1.I HAD NO KNOWLEDGE BEFORE,UNTILL I WAS GIVEN
KNOWLEDGE.
2.I KEPT IT TO MY SELF FOR YEARS.
3.THEN I STARTED TO BRING FORTH THAT KNOW LEDGE
BY TEACHING OTHERS.wakeup.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 23 2014,18:30) Mike………Tell us, can you separate your words from your “Self”, and your words from who you “ARE” ? Tell us how you do that. This a may be interesting, please enlighten us Mike. peace and love…………………………………..gene
Yes Gene,I said the words, “Bite me!” to someone back in '83.
Do you think those words are still around? Do you think I'm still WITH those words back in Iowa – even though I've lived in Arizona for the past 13 years now?
Listen Gene, WORDS don't even exist until they are said out loud. Before they are SAID out loud, they are THOUGHTS, not WORDS.
And once you say them out loud, they don't just take on a life of their own and hang out with you. Once said, they are gone forever……. into the wind.
The ONLY scenario I can think of where someone's word might be “with him” is in the case of an ECHO. If I was in a canyon, I could say a word, and that word might linger around for a second or two.
But other than that, a person's WORDS are never “with them”.
And the only reason you would imagine such a thing is because you're trying your best to make SENSE out of the very FLAWED translation, “the Word was with God, and the Word was God”.
Try a better translation of John 1:1 – and then you won't have to imagine nonsensical things like this anymore, okay?
Quote (carmel @ Jan. 24 2014,07:46) wakeup[/quote] Wakeup,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote God brought forth His Word, and given Him a form like God's own image. WAKEUP,
NOT HIS WORD EXACTLY, ALTHOUGH HE WAS GOD’S WORD, BUT WE MUST DISTINGUISH IT FROM GOD'S ACTUAL WORDS!
SO:
THE WORDYES GOD BROUGHT FORTH THE WORD!
NOTICE IN THE SINGULAR, SIMPLY TO SIGNIFY AN ENTITY!
PAUL MADE IT CLEAR AND SAID:
For the word of God is living and effectual, THIS IS A REFERENCE TO JESUS CHRIST'S POWER IN THE HOLY SPIRIT.
This is confirmed by Jesus :
John 16: 14 He shall GLORIFY ME ; because he shall RECEIVE OF MINE, and shall shew it to you. 15 All things whatsoever the Father hath, ARE MINE. Therefore I said, that he shall receive of mine, and shew it to you.
THIS IS JESUS CHRIST AS THE ONLY GOD IN FLESH
SO THE FATHER RECEIVED ALL HUMAN ATTRIBUTES OF JESUS, AND ACHIEVED MANHOOD!
THE FATHER NEVER EXPERIENCED DEATH,PAIN, HUNGER, AND ALL THE REST, BUT IN JESUS CHRIST HE DID
ALSO: NOT GIVEN Him a form like God's own image.
GOD NEVER HAD AN IMAGE EVEN NOW! HE IS THE MOST PERFECT GENUINE UNIQUE SPIRIT GOD IS UNKNOWN TO ALL HIS CREATURES, THE REASON THAT HE SENT HIS SON INTO HIS ENEMIES REALM, THE WORLD! TO MANIFEST HIMSELF IN THE WAY ALL HIS ENEMIES BELIEVED THAT IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE, AND ONLY THEY WOULD ACHIEVE IT THROUGH THE ANTICHRIST!
SO THE WORD MADE FLESH,
WAS THE ONLY FORM AND GOD'S EVER IMAGE!
Quote The Word is not God Himself,but something He owns.
The Holy Spirit is something He owns.
Wisdom is something He owns.WRONG:
THE WORD WAS GOD! HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GOD! HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT
WISDOM IS AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD BUT ALSO HIS SPIRIT
WHATEVER GOD OWNS IS A SPIRIT!
READ:
ISAIAH 11:2 And the SPIRIT of the Lord shall rest upon him: the SPIRIT of wisdom, and of understanding, the SPIRIT of counsel, and of fortitude, the SPIRIT of knowledge, and of godliness.
3And he shall be filled with the SPIRIT of the fear of the Lord. He shall not judge according to the sight of the eyes, nor reprove according to the hearing of the ears.
OK CLEAR ENOUGH, SO WISDOM IS BOTH AN ATTRIBUTE AND A SPIRIT OF GOD
Quote It was the Word that was made flesh;not God himself.
God gave his only begotten Son to the world; not Himself.
The Word made flesh died on the cross;not God.YES : BUT THE WORD WAS GOD IN FLESH FORM, THEREFORE GOD AS MAN,
NO HE HIMSELF IN HIS SON, MANIFESTED IN HIS SON
THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT , AND HIS ONLY UNIQUE EMBODIMENT IS THE WORD MADE FLESH, JESUS CHRIST!
THE WORD MADE FLESH, GOD AS MAN, THE FATHER AS JESUS CHRIST! NOT AS A SPIRIT DIED ON THE CROSS,
JESUS AS A PERSON WITHIN HIMSELF HAD TWO NATURES, MAN AND GOD!
THAT WAS SATAN'S ILLUSION, THAT GOD WOULD NEVER ACHIEVE MANHOOD, CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT MAN BECAME SATAN'S ABODE through ADAM'S SIN!
IT HAD TO BE GOD, HIMSELF AS MAN! IN JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD MADE FLESH!
THE ONLY WAY TO TOPPLE SATAN'S KINGDOM!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Carmel.1.Let *US* make man in our image.
**Our image**.
And you say God and His Word has no form.
Do we have no form?2.You say Jesus is God in the flesh;so God died.
*BUT* the other God in heaven did not die,He is alive and
well
What is this riddle???3. If Jesus is God in the flesh then he could not have suffered
as a normal human suffer. He really did not die,
because he is: he could resurrect himself.
Was Jesus really dead or just a pretence?4.The flesh God, crying to the spirit God: my God, my God.
He also called himself His God.
Where is the logic, in all of this abstract talk???5.His sacrifice could not be a real sacrifice,because God
could have deadened all the nerves.We can have no real
proof to that. Can we?6.A pure man died on the cross with nerves and all.
Not some hybrid God.7. The Word was transformed into flesh,real flesh.
Transformation occured in the womb.From a being into
a creature.8.Trinies always speak in riddles to make the sheep feel
stupid.And because there is no knowledge in them.wakeup.
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