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Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 10 2014,13:46) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 10 2014,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,07:28) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,12:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2014,07:38) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,14:33) 1. God's word commands all things that are in heaven and on earth and so does Jesus. 2. God's word is a mediator between God and man and is Jesus.
Please explain these claims, Kerwin.1. Do you believe God's word is a living being in heaven who goes about making commands to other beings in heaven and on earth?
2. Are you saying that God's spoken words are living beings who come and talk to us about things God said? And that we can ask these words some questions, and they will take our questions to God and get back to us with His answers?
Mike,I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.
So what are the “YES” or “NO” answers to my questions?
Mike,Do you understand what it means when you personalize a word?
Mike,You asked questions that implied a lack of knowledge and so asked if “you know what it means when you personalize a word?”
Do you withdraw you questions or are going to answer mine to demonstrate you have the knowledge to understand the answer I already gave to your questions?
Kerwin,I've probably forgotten more knowledge in my lifetime than you'll ever gain in the first place.
I do NOT withdraw my questions, but INSIST that you answer them. If you don't do it in this thread, I will ask them in the Hot Seat, and give out a tile if you still refuse.
As for your question, “YES”, I clearly understand that certain abstract things like spoken words and wisdom can be metaphorically personified.
Now, answer MY questions.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2014,19:53) Mikeb. You should know that Jesus will be in subjection to God.
Jesus in God, and God in all.
And what does “in subjection TO God” mean, Wakeup? And how does that scriptural teaching fit in with YOUR claim that Jesus is back to BEING God again?Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,15:04) Mike b. The one that was crucified was the Son of God.
Who *WAS* the Word of God,AT THE BEGINNING OF CREATION.
***And BEFORE creation started; **WAS IN GOD***.
Now was that so hard, Wakeup?
I just wanted you to say, point blank for all to see, that Jesus USED TO BE God Himself, then was a “part of God who was WITH God”, and then became someone completely OTHER THAN God when he became God's “Son”.
So the Son of God who dwelled on earth started off as being God Almighty Himself, right? But then he was someone OTHER THAN God for while, right?
And how about NOW? Is he the Son of God at God's right hand? Or has he somehow become the God he used to be again?
Also, if you say he was NOT God Himself, but the SON OF God when he was on earth, do you suppose his disciples also knew this fact? And if they did know as much as you know, and so realized Jesus WASN'T actually God Himself while he was on earth, do you suppose they really “worshiped” him on earth as if he WAS God Himself?
See? These are the kinds of questions that need to be asked about your doctrine. But I can't ask them until you man up and come right out and DIRECTLY say what it is you do believe.
Now that you've FINALLY done so, I can ask the questions. And that is why I was pushing so hard for DIRECT answers before. So now I can finally ask these other questions. And that is probably also the reason you were so reluctant to GIVE those direct answers. Because you don't really want to answer these next questions, do you?
Quote (carmel @ Jan. 11 2014,00:36) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,12:34) [/quote] mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:And He made sure the Bible made sense to HUMAN BEINGS.
Mike,I HAVE NOT GOT A SLIGHT DOUBT THAT GOD MADE SURE THAT THE BIBLE MAKES SENSE!
Good. Then I never again expect you to use the usual Trinitarian fallback of, “It doesn't have to be logical, because we can't understand the ways of God.”As for the rest of your long post, ask me ONE question, and I will answer it.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,05:52) Carmen. That was EXCELLENT because the truth is in those words.
I can not add, nor take away anything.wakeup.
Really Wakeup?So, is wisdom masculine, feminine, or both? What is YOUR answer?
My answer is the correct one, which is: Wisdom is neuter, because it is a THING, and not a PERSON.
I would also point out that people shouldn't make the mistake of confusing the gender of a WORD with SEXUAL gender.
If we do that, then we'd have to consider the Holy Spirit as a FEMALE, since the word for “spirit” is a FEMALE word in the Hebrew language.
So, while you saw brilliance in Charles' post, I saw a bunch of unrelated mumble-jumble, which had nothing at all to do with the POINT I was making.
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 09 2014,23:34) Quote (jammin @ Jan. 09 2014,20:58) rev 19.13 did not say God's word is called the Word of GOd. what version is that? hahaha. make your own bible.
rev 19.13 said HE is called the word of God and that HE is Cristo himself
Jammin.You are forgetting;we are speaking of the Word of God here.
Not just any word.
The Holy spirit is also addressed as He. ??
Jammin; HIS name is called the WORD OF GOD.
And I am just trying to explain it with my own words.It was not meant to be a joke,I dont see anything funny.
wakeup.
that Word of God is a title of Christ. that is why im encouraging you to study first english before talking to this forum.my word cant be addressed as HE. but the Word of God in john 1.1 was addressed as HE by john. rev 19.13
john also said that this is a title of Christ rev 19.13
that is his name. rev 19.13HE was with God and was God. jn 1.1
study hard boy
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,08:40) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 10 2014,15:04) Mike b. The one that was crucified was the Son of God.
Who *WAS* the Word of God,AT THE BEGINNING OF CREATION.
***And BEFORE creation started; **WAS IN GOD***.
Now was that so hard, Wakeup?I just wanted you to say, point blank for all to see, that Jesus USED TO BE God Himself, then was a “part of God who was WITH God”, and then became someone completely OTHER THAN God when he became God's “Son”.
So the Son of God who dwelled on earth started off as being God Almighty Himself, right? But then he was someone OTHER THAN God for while, right?
And how about NOW? Is he the Son of God at God's right hand? Or has he somehow become the God he used to be again?
Also, if you say he was NOT God Himself, but the SON OF God when he was on earth, do you suppose his disciples also knew this fact? And if they did know as much as you know, and so realized Jesus WASN'T actually God Himself while he was on earth, do you suppose they really “worshiped” him on earth as if he WAS God Himself?
See? These are the kinds of questions that need to be asked about your doctrine. But I can't ask them until you man up and come right out and DIRECTLY say what it is you do believe.
Now that you've FINALLY done so, I can ask the questions. And that is why I was pushing so hard for DIRECT answers before. So now I can finally ask these other questions. And that is probably also the reason you were so reluctant to GIVE those direct answers. Because you don't really want to answer these next questions, do you?
MikeB.***BEFORE THE BEGINNING***:
I dont completely agree with what you have stated.1.God was God with his Word in Him.In Him,In Him.Part of
Himself. No Word to be seen.Just God,Just God,Just God.***THE BEGINNING OF CREATION***:
1. God spoke *out* his Word (brought forth) He can do this.
He gave him a form in His own image.
I came forth from the father. I came out of the Father.
**(NOT I WAS *CREATED* BY THE FATHER)**.3.God is now speaking through Him.*After* He came out.
What ever God wants to say in his mind; His image did the
speaking.Even the Word in the flesh said this:
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
God was speaking;His Word in audio,through Jesus.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,09:04) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 11 2014,05:52) Carmen. That was EXCELLENT because the truth is in those words.
I can not add, nor take away anything.wakeup.
Really Wakeup?So, is wisdom masculine, feminine, or both? What is YOUR answer?
My answer is the correct one, which is: Wisdom is neuter, because it is a THING, and not a PERSON.
I would also point out that people shouldn't make the mistake of confusing the gender of a WORD with SEXUAL gender.
If we do that, then we'd have to consider the Holy Spirit as a FEMALE, since the word for “spirit” is a FEMALE word in the Hebrew language.
So, while you saw brilliance in Charles' post, I saw a bunch of unrelated mumble-jumble, which had nothing at all to do with the POINT I was making.
MikeB.Whisdom is wisdom.But:
1.Godly wisdom.
2.Mans wisdom.
3 Wisdom has no gender.But.
A males wisdom is different as a females wisdom.
But all is wisdom.The Holy spirit is non gender,He is spirit.
But Zion is seen as female. Mother zion in heaven.
The daughter of Zion,Christ's bride.You need to compare carmel's post to the scriptures.
He did a good job. He can tap into the spirit,and understand.
Still more to learn though.wakeup.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,09:04) My answer is the correct one, which is: Wisdom is neuter, because it is a THING, and not a PERSON.
Mike……So why do you say Wisdom is “metaphorically” speaking of Jesus, in Proverbs 8 , then? Is that not and “ASSUMPTION” on your Part MIKE?peace and love to you and yours…………………………..gene
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,02:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,08:40) 1. And how about NOW? Is he the Son of God at God's right hand? Or has he somehow become the God he used to be again?
2. Also, if you say he was NOT God Himself, but the SON OF God when he was on earth, do you suppose his disciples also knew this fact? And if they did know as much as you know, and so realized Jesus WASN'T actually God Himself while he was on earth, do you suppose they really “worshiped” him on earth as if he WAS God Himself?
MikeB.1.God was God with his Word in Him.In Him,In Him.Part of
Himself. No Word to be seen.Just God,Just God,Just God…………………
Hi Wakeup,I'm not interested in your explanations or rationalizations. Please just DIRECTLY answer the new questions. I've even numbered them for you.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 13 2014,08:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,09:04) My answer is the correct one, which is: Wisdom is neuter, because it is a THING, and not a PERSON.
Mike……So why do you say Wisdom is “metaphorically” speaking of Jesus, in Proverbs 8 , then?
Hi Gene,Read the 4th post here for my reasons.
W
Quote ***And BEFORE creation started; **WAS IN GOD***. WEN SOME THING IS NOT CREATED IT DOES NOT EXIST ,PERIOD ,
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,02:23) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,09:04) Wisdom is neuter, because it is a THING, and not a PERSON.
MikeB.Wisdom has no gender.
He did a good job. He can tap into the spirit,and understand.
Let's see, Wakeup.Hey Charles, are Wakeup and I right that wisdom is always neuter?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2014,10:01) Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,02:07) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,08:40) 1. And how about NOW? Is he the Son of God at God's right hand? Or has he somehow become the God he used to be again?
2. Also, if you say he was NOT God Himself, but the SON OF God when he was on earth, do you suppose his disciples also knew this fact? And if they did know as much as you know, and so realized Jesus WASN'T actually God Himself while he was on earth, do you suppose they really “worshiped” him on earth as if he WAS God Himself?
MikeB.1.God was God with his Word in Him.In Him,In Him.Part of
Himself. No Word to be seen.Just God,Just God,Just God…………………
Hi Wakeup,I'm not interested in your explanations or rationalizations. Please just DIRECTLY answer the new questions. I've even numbered them for you.
Mike B.1.The Word of God is now next to his father.
Sit thou at my right hand untill I——
2.The apostles are well informmed,they knew Jesus was the
Son of God,not God.THOU ART THE MESSIAH;THE SON OF
GOD. *ON THIS ROCK (FOUDATION) WILL I BUILD MY
CHURCH*.
They also understood that Jesus is the Word of God in the
flesh. But this full understanding came at pentecost.
They addressed Jesus as my Lord: Many kneeled down
before him.NO ONE CAN SAY; I WORSHIP GOD,BUT NOT WORSHIP HIS WORD. YOU CAN NOT WORSHIP GOD *WITHOUT* GOING THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.NO MAN CAN COME TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME.WE NEED TO SEEK THE SCRIPTURES
TO FIND GOD.HE WAS NEVER THE GOD HE USED TO BE.
BUT *THE WORD* THAT WAS *INSIDE* GOD *BEFORE* CREATION STARTED. BEFORE GOD HAS SPOKEN.You are asking for explanations but also try to put limits
on the number of words I can use.wakeup.
Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 11 2014,01:46) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 10 2014,07:46) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2014,07:28) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 09 2014,12:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 09 2014,07:38) Quote (kerwin @ Jan. 08 2014,14:33) 1. God's word commands all things that are in heaven and on earth and so does Jesus. 2. God's word is a mediator between God and man and is Jesus.
Please explain these claims, Kerwin.1. Do you believe God's word is a living being in heaven who goes about making commands to other beings in heaven and on earth?
2. Are you saying that God's spoken words are living beings who come and talk to us about things God said? And that we can ask these words some questions, and they will take our questions to God and get back to us with His answers?
Mike,I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.
So what are the “YES” or “NO” answers to my questions?
Mike,Do you understand what it means when you personalize a word?
Mike,You asked questions that implied a lack of knowledge and so asked if “you know what it means when you personalize a word?”
Do you withdraw you questions or are going to answer mine to demonstrate you have the knowledge to understand the answer I already gave to your questions?
Mike,Quote
I personified God's word to show its relationship to Jesus.Is the answer to both your questions.
In other words I “representation of a thing or abstraction as a person”
mikeboll64,Jan. wrote:[/quote]
Quote As for the rest of your long post, ask me ONE question, and I will answer it. Mike,
It seems to me, that there's no way to discuss things with you, for the simple reason that my first post regarding wisdom was very short and simple, but still you never answered it, and now you said that you will answer if I ask you ONE question!
SO ANSWER THIS NOW!
WHAT DO YOU THINK WISDOM IS?
IS IT AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD ONLY?
IS IT A SPIRIT BEING ONLY?
OR IS IT BOTH SPIRIT BEING AND AN ATTRIBUTE OF GOD?
NOW I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WERE TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR POINT USING SCRIPTURES!
REGARDING YOUR LAST QUESTION,
I SIMPLY TELL YOU THAT MY INTEREST IS NOT GRAMMAR,
SINCE JEWISH AND ENGLISH ARE DIFFERENT!
BUT THE WAY WE ALL HUMANS DEFINE GOD IN RELATION TO WHAT THERE'S IN SCRIPTURES WHICH WAS REVEALED BY JESUS CHRIST, THE WORD MADE FLESH! OR PREFERABLY:
GOD IN FLESH FORM HIMSELF!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 13 2014,19:04) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 13 2014,08:40) 1. And how about NOW? Is he the Son of God at God's right hand? Or has he somehow become the God he used to be again?
2. Also, if you say he was NOT God Himself, but the SON OF God when he was on earth, do you suppose his disciples also knew this fact? And if they did know as much as you know, and so realized Jesus WASN'T actually God Himself while he was on earth, do you suppose they really “worshiped” him on earth as if he WAS God Himself?
1.The Word of God is now next to his father.2.The apostles are well informmed,they knew Jesus was the
Son of God,not God.THOU ART THE MESSIAH;THE SON OF
GOD. *ON THIS ROCK (FOUDATION) WILL I BUILD MY
CHURCH*.
They also understood that Jesus is the Word of God in the
flesh. But this full understanding came at pentecost.
They addressed Jesus as my Lord: Many kneeled down
before him.
1. So the same Word who used to actually BE God now sits NEXT TO God?Is this your FINAL answer? That the Word is in no way God Almighty Himself?
2. I agree that none of the disciples ever thought Jesus actually WAS the very God who sent him into the world. They KNEW different, right?
Does kneeling before a man on earth automatically constitute an act of WORSHIP? Or could it simply be an act of paying homage to one you revere and adore?
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