JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:28)

I ask you this: Is Mike's 'mind', and Mike's 'word', and Mike's 'spirit' other separate beings – or is Mike “one”?

And I believe I answered it already with an analogy about going to the store.

Would anyone ever say, “2B went to the market, and his word went WITH him.” ?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2013,04:58)

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:28) I ask you this: Is Mike's 'mind', and Mike's 'word', and Mike's 'spirit' other separate beings – or is Mike “one”? And I believe I answered it already with an analogy about going to the store. Would anyone ever say, “2B went to the market, and his word went WITH him.” ?

Mike,

You already you can do that sort of thing. If that rocks your world then try the words to various kitchen utensils.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2013,02:48)

You are in error in your word use.  Explicit is when it is written in the very words which is clearly not the case.

From Dictionary.com:

ex·plic·it
 
adjective  
1. fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; leaving nothing merely implied; unequivocal:

I didn't see a definition that said, “exact words”.

And the point is that the earth was already there, formless and void, at the time God said, “Let there be light.”

You seem to think that God first started to create the earth, then created light, then created the heavens, then created the angels, then came back later and FINISHED the earth – at which time the angels shouted for joy at God COMPLETING the earth He had started so long ago.

And all I want to know is: DO YOU INDEED BELIEVE THIS FORMULA AS STATED ABOVE?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2013,17:07)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2013,04:58) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:28) I ask you this: Is Mike's 'mind', and Mike's 'word', and Mike's 'spirit' other separate beings – or is Mike “one”? And I believe I answered it already with an analogy about going to the store. Would anyone ever say, “2B went to the market, and his word went WITH him.” ? Mike, You already can do that sort of thing.

Nonsense, Kerwin. You have never said those words in your life, and no one has ever said them to you. If someone did start talking like that, they'd have him locked up in an insane asylum.

[2besee]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2013,12:07)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2013,04:58) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:28) I ask you this: Is Mike's 'mind', and Mike's 'word', and Mike's 'spirit' other separate beings – or is Mike “one”? And I believe I answered it already with an analogy about going to the store. Would anyone ever say, “2B went to the market, and his word went WITH him.” ? Mike, You already you can do that sort of thing.  If that rocks your world then try the words to various kitchen utensils.

Funny.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2013,11:58)

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:28) I ask you this: Is Mike's 'mind', and Mike's 'word', and Mike's 'spirit' other separate beings – or is Mike “one”? And I believe I answered it already with an analogy about going to the store. Would anyone ever say, “2B went to the market, and his word went WITH him.” ?

So then Mike,
You are saying that your thoughts, your word, your spirit, etc, are all other seperate people from you? Yes or No.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ Oct. 22 2013,09:53)

Wow, Mike: You won't listen to instruction, and so, how are you ever going to understand the truth.

Marty, I don't need complicated “instruction” for something so simple.  

Here, let me use one of the scriptures you quoted to show you how simple it really is:

John 12:46
I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

That was Jesus talking about HIMSELF, Marty.  Now compare that with what John said about THE WORD:

John 1:9
The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.

ALL OF the things said about “the Word” in scripture are also said about “Jesus Christ” in scripture.  This tells a normal person that Jesus IS the Word.

But because of your selfish personal desires, you don't WANT Jesus to be the Word.  So you will continue to hem and haw, and search and search for “experts” who will tell you what your ears are itching to hear.  You are looking for “experts” who can tell you that “Jesus has aspects of the Word”.  Or that “the Word pertains to Jesus”.  Or that “Jesus has the character of the Word”.  Anything to keep you from accepting the most obvious understanding that is right in front of your eyes.

Now, when you can explain to me how Adam was able to give all the animals their “character”, or how they were able to tell Elizabeth that no one in her family has the “character” of “the Lord is gracious”, I will give another listen to your current “expert”.

In the meantime, it seems that within five minutes of his 44 minute long speech, I was able to come up with SCRIPTURES that clearly refute the things he was trying to teach us.

My guess is that this guy is like you……….. another “Jesus was never anything but a man” believer.  And he is trying his best to avoid Jesus actually being the Word – just like you are.

But until you can explain the “Adam” and “Elizabeth” thing for me, would you do me the solid of answering the question I've been asking?

Marty, WHOSE name is called “The Word of God” in Rev 19:13?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,17:42)

So then Mike, You are saying that your thoughts, your word, your spirit, etc, are all other seperate people from you? Yes or No.

NO, 2B.  They are POSSESSIONS of me.  They are not living entities who can be with me.  And they are not actually me.

On the other hand, if I had a personal spokesperson called, The Word of Mike, that particular “Word” could be WITH me.  But the very fact that this “Word” could be WITH me would PROHIBIT him from actually BEING me.

2B, see if you can refute this:

The Father God Almighty Himself CANNOT be WITH the Father God Almighty Himself.

Can you refute it?

[jammin]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2013,05:27)

Quote (jammin @ Oct. 22 2013,13:15) Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2013,09:44) Jammin, Quote ^ Harris, Murray J. ;Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus, 1992. <Murray J. Harris. Baker Books, pub. SBN 0801021952, p. 69 Quote “[It] is clear that in the translation “the Word was God,” the term God is being used to denote his nature or essence, and not his person. But in normal English usage “God” is a proper noun, referring to the person of the Father or corporately to the three persons of the Godhead. Moreover, “the Word was God” suggests that “the Word” and “God” are convertible terms, that the proposition is reciprocating. But the Word is neither the Father nor the Trinity… The rendering cannot stand without explanation.” So it does not say Jesus is the Father or, as Trinitarian definition of God would have it, Jesus is the 3 in 1 God.  Interpretating it as you like requires explanation. Quote im not putting my belief to those men. what im saying is they KNOW what they are doing. they translated greek to english not will all small letters but those words need capitalization, they capitalize the letter. So your words say that you do not put your faith in them but the spirit of your words says otherwise as you do not want them questioned.    Those sure sounds like you have put your faith in them because you believe they are far above you. I can say that if their only reason for capitalizing the word in some places and not in other is because there chosen doctrine leads them to then you are taking their word that they follow the right teaching.  Do you follow all these men say even as they dispute with one another? Quote you told me that God is an aspect of the WORD. can you read that in john 1.1?: If you truly lack the ability to follow my reasoning as you seem to be acting like then perhaps you also fail to comprehend that being divine is an aspect of God.  I do not believe either are the case.   Quote you are telling me lies Kerwin. you are the one who wants doctrine from men.you are preaching doctrines from men and not from God. You are the one that is teaching to take the words of men not I.  Instead I try to reason with you out of Scripture. Note: reference in relation to and quote from Jesus as God: The New Testament Use of Theos in Reference to Jesus. you did not give me any single version in greek about john 1.1 where can you read in greek that God is an aspect of the word? do you know the difference between word and Word? you qouted moffat buy he translated john 1.1 as Word and not word. you should know first the meaning of that verse before posting it here. you know what you are really a false teacher. you said before he wil be called the Word of God in rev 19.13 but no version would say that/ you are just making your own version. your statement about rev 19.13 and john 1.1 tells us that you are a false teacher. Jammin, You have not given me no scriptures that state the messiah bore the name word before he was made in his mother's womb. Another way of saying that the Word like God is to say the Word is divine which is why the Koine Greek words can be translated either way.   Like is probably a better word than aspect in English as God and theos are not complete synonyms in that theos can mean “his counsels, interests, things due to him” and God does not.   The word is equivalent to his counsels. If you are following this then you should figure out that I don't mean that God is a part of his word even though I did use the wrong English word. Note: theos Note: I have formerly used the word aspect to express an idea works fine in Koine Greek but not in English.  I believe like is the correct English word.

some versions say the Word was divine BUT it didnt say God is an aspect of the word.
take note. they say word and not Word.

here is the version that says Christ before he became flesh, he was called the Word.

John 1:1

Contemporary English Version (CEV)
The Word of Life

1 In the beginning was the one
who is called the Word.
The Word was with God
and was truly God.

John 1:1

New Life Version (NLV)
Christ Lived Before the World Was Made

1 The Word (Christ) was in the beginning. The Word was with God. The Word was God.
John 1:14

New Life Version (NLV)

14 Christ became human flesh and lived among us. We saw His shining-greatness. This greatness is given only to a much-loved Son from His Father. He was full of loving-favor and truth.

now give me a version that says in john 1.1 that GOD is an aspect of the word.
can you give me or not?

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 23 2013,10:42)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2013,11:58) Quote (2besee @ Oct. 22 2013,02:28) I ask you this: Is Mike's 'mind', and Mike's 'word', and Mike's 'spirit' other separate beings – or is Mike “one”? And I believe I answered it already with an analogy about going to the store. Would anyone ever say, “2B went to the market, and his word went WITH him.” ? So then Mike, You are saying that your thoughts, your word, your spirit, etc, are all other seperate people from you? Yes or No.

2besee……….That is exactly what he is saying, i think our brother Mike need to visit a psychotherapist  and maybe a little couch chat would help.  

He just need to believe what the dictionary say a word is , it is the expression of one OWN THOUGHTS and Yes Mike your “thoughts' ARE YOU rather you believe that or not , so a man thinketh SO HE “IS”

2besee, Mike doesn't realize “HIS” words are who and what He is, because they come from his “OWN” MIND and SPIRIT. They are “EXACTLY” WHO and WHAT HE “IS”.  Even of you quote someone else you are showing that person to who ever you are quoting it to , Even as Jesus quoted God the Father's words to us, he was never took responsibility for those word but always said they were the Fathers words, and even said those words were Spirit and Life, he never ever said those words were His, as if he was those words. I know you clearly understand this 2besee.

peace and love to you and yours……………………..gene

[carmel]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 20 2013,08:03)

[/quote] kerwin,Oct. wrote:

Quote

There was no light of any kind at that time and I doubt Satan was around yet as there was no light to see by.  It is only after the majority of the foundation of earth are laid when the final corner capstone of the foundation is being laid that the sons of God and morning stars celebrate.   Satan was the chief of those morning stars for a time.  His fall happened no later than when he chose to tempt Eve with evil and a time after he was created.

Kerwin,

That's your poor understanding, I'm afraid!

ALSO IN GENESIS 1:1 WHEN GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WAS IN COMPLETE PURE LIGHT, NOT IN DARKNESS LIKE YOU SAID, SINCE GOD HIMSELF IS THE MOST PURE LIGHT, AND HE WAS IN FULL HARMONY WITH ALL HIS SPIRTUAL CREATURES ! SO NOT EVEN THE SUN WAS IN EXISTENCE, DUE TO THE FACT THAT THERE WAS NO NEED OF IT.

SIMPLY ALL FUNCTIONED IRRETIONALLY !

EVEN THE ANGELS WERE CALLED MORNING STARS! OBVIOUS THERE WAS NO NIGHT AND DARKNESS YET, WHEN THE EARTH, THE ONLY HABITABLE PLANET  WAS CREATED!

THE SUN AND THE STARS WERE CREATED  IN VERSES 14 to 19!

NOW READ:

Isaiah 45:7  I form the light, and create darkness, I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord that do all these things.

THE ABOVE IS CLEAR, THAT GOD IS LIGHT, HE HIMSELF FORMS THE LIGHT, AND HE CREATED DARKNESS!

SO DARKNESS HAD ITS BEGINNING DEFINITELY BETWEEN GENESIS 1:1, AND 1:2, THEREFORE THROUGH LUCIFER'S REBEL!

THAT’S REGARDING GENESIS 1:1

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 23 2013,05:17)

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 22 2013,02:48) You are in error in your word use.  Explicit is when it is written in the very words which is clearly not the case. From Dictionary.com: ex·plic·it   adjective   1. fully and clearly expressed or demonstrated; leaving nothing merely implied; unequivocal: I didn't see a definition that said, “exact words”. And the point is that the earth was already there, formless and void, at the time God said, “Let there be light.” You seem to think that God first started to create the earth, then created light, then created the heavens, then created the angels, then came back later and FINISHED the earth – at which time the angels shouted for joy at God COMPLETING the earth He had started so long ago. And all I want to know is: DO YOU INDEED BELIEVE THIS FORMULA AS STATED ABOVE?

Mike,

The appropriate definition of implicit is:

Quote

a :  capable of being understood from something else though unexpressed :

explicit is equivalent to what dictionary.com wrote.

Quote

a :  fully revealed or expressed without vagueness, implication, or ambiguity :  leaving no question as to meaning or intent

I am fairly sure I used both correctly.

The old earth and the old heaven were created before light.   They were both created at the same time.  The earth to be where humans would be created and heaven where the and angels would be created.

I assume you conclude the foundations of earth were the earth that is void and without form even though it was covered by water.

Now Jeremiah disagrees with you on what being without form and void means.

Jeremiah 4:23-27

Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void;
and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled,
and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man,
and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness,
and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord,
and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the Lord said,
The whole land shall be desolate;
yet will I not make a full end.

I plan on looking into this more.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2013,10:46)

2besee……….That is exactly what he is saying, i think our brother Mike need to visit a psychotherapist  and maybe a little couch chat would help.

Hmmmm…………..  Let's see, Gene:

You just said the word “2besee” and the word “Mike”.  And your claim is that you actually ARE your word(s), right?

Does that mean that you ARE “2besee” and “Mike” now – because you said those words?

If not, then you should quit while you're behind on this one.  (Oops – I just said “behind”.  Dang it!  That means that I AM a behind because I am my words!   )

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Oct. 23 2013,13:18)

ALSO IN GENESIS 1:1 WHEN GOD CREATED HEAVEN AND EARTH, THE WHOLE UNIVERSE WAS IN COMPLETE PURE LIGHT, NOT IN DARKNESS LIKE YOU SAID, SINCE GOD HIMSELF IS THE MOST PURE LIGHT………

I thought about bringing that up too, Charles.

God dwells in unapproachable light. Apparently Kerwin thinks that God used to dwell in utter darkness before He created the unapproachable light in which He dwells.

I don't think that. God is light – not darkness. And I don't think He used to be darkness, and then CHANGED to light when He created light.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2013,16:44)

I am fairly sure I used both correctly.

Until you show me that “explicit” means “IN THE SAME EXACT WORDS”, please don't correct me about it, okay?  Because you're telling me I did something wrong…….. which I don't mind if I did in fact do something wrong.  But you're correcting me about things I was right about in the first place.  

I repeat:  It is EXPLICITLY stated in scripture that the earth was already there at the time God said, “Let there be light”.

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2013,16:44)

Now Jeremiah disagrees with you on what being without form and void means.

1.  Please explain how Jeremiah's words “disagree” with anything I've said.

2.  Ask yourself if Jeremiah was talking about the creation of the world, or a time in the future (from his perspective) that God's fierce anger will cause the things he is describing.

Quote (kerwin @ Oct. 23 2013,16:44)

I plan on looking into this more.

Now there's a good idea.  Next time, how about you do that BEFORE telling me that a writer of scripture “disagrees with me”.  

[2besee]

Mike,
I can't answer your question because it's irrelevant.
Can the Father also be the Father??

Gene, thanks.

[mikeboll64]

And Kerwin,

Do me a favor and don't post to me at all until you're ready to begin ANSWERING the points I keep making.  I get tired of making these points, just for you to completely ignore them and keep talking about other things.

Here is the point from my post to you yesterday:

The point is that the earth was already there, formless and void, at the time God said, “Let there be light.”

You seem to think that God first started to create the earth, then created light, then created the heavens, then created the angels, then came back later and FINISHED the earth – at which time the angels shouted for joy at God COMPLETING the earth He had started so long ago.

And all I want to know is: DO YOU INDEED BELIEVE THIS FORMULA AS STATED ABOVE?

Please ADDRESS that point before talking to me about other things.

[2besee]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2013,12:18)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2013,10:46) 2besee……….That is exactly what he is saying, i think our brother Mike need to visit a psychotherapist  and maybe a little couch chat would help.   Hmmmm…………..  Let's see, Gene: You just said the word “2besee” and the word “Mike”.  And your claim is that you actually ARE your word(s), right? Does that mean that you ARE “2besee” and “Mike” now – because you said those words? If not, then you should quit while you're behind on this one.  (Oops – I just said “behind”.  Dang it!  That means that I AM a behind because I am my words!   )

Mike, God is love. So what does that mean to you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 23 2013,17:37)

Mike, I can't answer your question because it's irrelevant. Can the Father also be the Father??

No 2B, the Father can't ALSO be the Father.

When it says, “the Word was with God” – who exactly do you think that God is?  Don't you believe it is the Father God Almighty?

I do.

And if the Word was WITH the Father God Almighty, then can the Word also BE the Father God Almighty?

In other words, can the Father God Almighty be WITH the Father God Almighty?  YES or NO?

Please don't tell me this point is “irrelevant”. Either ANSWER it, or don't post to me at all.

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Oct. 24 2013,05:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 24 2013,12:18) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Oct. 23 2013,10:46) 2besee……….That is exactly what he is saying, i think our brother Mike need to visit a psychotherapist  and maybe a little couch chat would help.   Hmmmm…………..  Let's see, Gene: You just said the word “2besee” and the word “Mike”.  And your claim is that you actually ARE your word(s), right? Does that mean that you ARE “2besee” and “Mike” now – because you said those words? If not, then you should quit while you're behind on this one.  (Oops – I just said “behind”.  Dang it!  That means that I AM a behind because I am my words!   ) Mike, God is love. So what does that mean to you?

Quote

Mike, God is love. So what does that mean to you?

But ;God is almighty;
God is righteous;
God is faithful
God is one
God is holy
God is truthful
God is love
God is merciful

2bee; So what does that all mean to you?

[Author]

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