JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[jammin]

now for the creation. pls read gen 1
you can find it there

[carmel]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 03 2013,12:32)

[/quote] terraricca, wrote:

Quote

I have answered you but you have to start thinking and understand what I am saying to you ,

THE SAME THING THAT YOU HAVE TO DO ALSO, AND EVEN MORE SINCE YOU HAVE TO REFLECT AND PRAY!!!

Quote

and you should know that by using a couple parts of a few verses does not make your reasoning true to scriptures,

UNLESS YOU SPECIFY EACH PART, AND CONTRADICT ME, BY PRODUCING FEW VERSES FROM SCRIPTURES, IT SHOWS THAT YOU ARE NOT SURE OF YOURSELF, IT IS NOT THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT WHO IS IN YOU, BUT THROUGH THE EVIL SPIRIT,AND YOU WOULD BE  TELLING LIES, NOT THE TRUTH. YOU ARE  SIMPLY BEING PROUD, AND YOU ARE AIMING TO CONFRONT ME INSTEAD ,AND THAT’S NOT FOR JESUS’ LOVE!!!
IT’S NO USE THAT I KEEP ON SAYING TO YOU REFLECT IN ORDER TO ALLOW THE HOLY SPIRIT TO WORK IN YOU!

Quote

and I can tell you that you are wrong in thinking God needs to glorify him for men ,God does not need anything that men as or anyone else,

YOU ARE WRONG. I NEVER SAID THAT GOD NEEDS SOMETHING!!

GOD DOESN’T NEED ANYTHING. BUT THAT  DOESN’T MEAN HE HAS EVERYTHING! FOR INSTANCE, BEFORE THE WORD BECAME FLESH,GOD NEVER HAD FLESH! GOD NEVER WAS AWARE,AND OWNED THE ATTRIBUTES OF MAN. BUT HE GOT ALL THESE IN JESUS, THE WORD.

GOD GLORIFIED IN JESUS, THE WORD,FOR HIS CREATURES SAKE. SO THEY COULD SEE HIM, AND BE WITH HIM, BUT ONLY THROUGH JESUS,SINCE  HE COULDN’T IN THE SAME TIME REMAIN A SPIRIT CONSIDERING THE FACT THAT HIS SPIRIT IS UNIQUE,AND HIS CREATURES COULD BE DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY THEY LOOK AT HIM. SO HE ACHIEVED  THIS IN THE WORD HIS SON, HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT!

GOD IS LOVE, AND HE LACKED TO BE LOVED!!! Read scriptures it’s clear enough that GOD needed to be loved, AND UNLESS HE IS LOVED BY ALL HIS ENTIRE CREATURES HE WOULD NOT ACHIEVE HIS KINGDOM! MADE OF BOTH INVISIBLE AND VISIBLE CREATURES.

Jesus manifested  GOD’S THIRST for love from man:

Three times he asked Peter whether he loves Him!!!

READ:

Jesus answered, and said to him: If any one love me,

( NOTICE HE USED THE WORD IF KNOWING THAT HUMANS WOULD NEVER REALLY LOVE HIM!!!

he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him, and will make our abode with him

ONLY THOSE WHO ARE, THE GENERATION OF HEAVEN PURPOSELY SENT TO DO GOD’S WILL, THE SAINTS.BUT THOSE WHO ARE FROM HELL, THE GENERATION OF THE EARTH US LOVES THE FLESH, AND THE WORLD.

1John 2:15 Love not the world, nor the things which are in the world. If any man love the world, the charity of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world, is the concupiscence of the flesh, and the concupiscence of the eyes, and the PRIDE of life, which is not of the Father, but is of the world.

More to come:

Peace And love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

Quote

Christ is his first creation

Terraricca

THAT’S A HUGE LIE:

READ AND REFLECT:

John8:42 ………………..For from God I PROCEEDED AND CAME; for I came not of myself, but he sent me:

JOHN 17:8 ………………….and have known in very deed that I CAME OUT FROM YOU, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

SO JESUS WAS CLEAR IN BOTH CASES, FIRST HE SAID:

for I proceeded forth and came from GOD,

and

I came out from you.

TO MAKE US AWARE THAT HE WAS NOT CREATED, HE WAS ETERNALLY IN GOD'S SPIRIT, AS THE WORD.

THEN HE SAID THAT HE WAS SENT TO DO GOD'S WILL AS  THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH! THE GODHEAD IN JESUS! GOD IN FLESH!

Quote

,Christ his the son and the WORD of God ,

YOU HAVE TO GET IT INTO YOUR MIND THAT THE WORD  IS GOD’S FUNCTION IN HIS SON,THE GODHEAD IN FLESH!!!

THE FATHER, THE HOLY SPIRIT,AND THE SON,

THE THREE RESPECTIVE SPIRITS ALL IN JESUS, THE WORD!!!

Quote

God his a spirit being a complete being ,

IF GOD IS A SPIRIT BEING, HE IS NOT A CARNAL BEING.

SO HE IS NOT FULLY COMPLETE. HE IS ONLY COMPLETE AS A SPIRIT!!!

HE LACKS A VISIBLE MATERIAL SUBSTANCE, ALTHOUGH HE OWNS THE INGREDIANTS OF ALL MATERIALS WITHIN HIM, BUT HE DIDN’T PRODUCE FOR HIMSELF A COSTUME, HE COULD HAVE DONE SO,BUT GENERALLY SPEAKING, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN DETRIMENTAL FOR HIS CREATURES IF HE BECAME VISIBLE!

INSTEAD GOD  MANIFESTED HIMSELF,THROUGH HIS VARIOUS ENTIRE CREATURES NO MATTER WHAT.

SO HE ALLOWED THAT PROCESS TO CREATE HIS VARIOUS MYRIAD CREATURES IN, BUT THROUGH THE WORD, JESUS’SPIRIT IN THE FUNCTION OF A MEDIATOR. THAT WAY HE ABIDED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT WITHIN JESUS’SPIRIT, AS THE WORD, THE GODHEAD IN FULL POWER.

Quote

Christ his a spirit being a complete being separated from the father , this is solid truth

WRONG! IT IS HALF TRUTH!!!

AS A SPIRIT, HE IS BOTH COMPLETELY SEPARATED, AND ALSO UNITED AS ONE WITHIN THE FATHER. TWO FUNCTIONS.
WHILE THE SON WAS IN THE WORLD,AS FLESH SUBSTANCE OF THE WORD, JESUS,

HE WAS BOTH GOD IN FLESH,

GOD IN JESUS,

THE FATHER IN THE SON, THE WORD,

AND ALSO IN HEAVEN WITHIN THE FATHER’S DIVINITY. HE CONFIRMED THIS IN

JOHN 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

THE SON OF MAN

WHO IS IN HEAVEN.

John 17: 24 Father, I will that

WHERE I AM,

they also whom thou hast given me may be with me;……………………..

SO HE SAID   WHO IS IN HEAVEN, SO HE WAS ALSO IN HEAVEN WITHIN THE FATHER’S DIVINITY,

ALSO HE SAID

‘WHERE I AM, not WHERE I SHALL BE, CONFIRMING THAT HE WAS WITHIN HIS FATHER’S DIVINITY IN HEAVEN

CHRIST IS GOD’S FUNCTION WHICH THE FATHER IS WELL PLEASED TO ABIDE WITHIN AS MATTER, ALL MATERIAL, ALL FLESH

GOD OF ALL FLESH

Jeremiah 32:27 Behold I am the Lord the God of all flesh: shall any thing be hard for me?

God confirmed above ,that although it is a too hard process to become GOD IN FLESH HE ACHIEVED IT THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRST, THE WORD.

BUT HE STILL REMAINED A SPIRIT, HE LOST NOTHING OF HIS ORIGINAL STATE.

SO HE IS FUNCTIONING WITHIN HIS SON, THE MEDIATOR,THE WORD, JESUS CHRIST BUT BOTH  AS  FLESH AND  SPIRIT,UNITED AS ONE FOR ETERNITY.

THEREFORE GOD FROM A COMPLETE SPIRIT BEING ONLY, HE BECAME ALSO:

THE COMPLETE BEING, OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH, THE ONLY TRUE GOD

HIS TASK NOW IS THAT HE PUTS ALL JESUS’ ENEMIES AS HIS FOOTSTOOL. ALL CREATURES MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JESUS INHERITED ALL GOD’S ATTRIBUTES AND IS  THE MOST POWERFULL AND ONLY TRUE GOD, TILL THE LAST DAY WHEN GOD AS A SPIRIT WOULD BE :

ALL JESUS’ SPIRITUAL CREATURES IN ALL JESUS’ CARNAL CREATURES

THE MYSTICAL BODY OF JESUS CHRIST!

THE SON’S KINGDOM

GOD’S KINGDOM

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 03 2013,02:00)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2013,08:59) jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?  YES or NO? the capital G should be given to the true God, the most high God and not god.

Okay, I agree that the capital “G” should only be given to the Most High God, the One called “the only true God” by Jesus himself.

So let's use what we learned in our discussion about whether or not Satan was God Almighty, and apply that same logic and reasoning to Jesus.  

We both concluded that Satan is NOT God Almighty – not because there is a scripture that specifically says, “Satan is not God Almighty” – but because Satan is many times listed as someone OTHER THAN God Almighty, right?

Let's use that same common sense in the following scriptures:

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Since Jesus lists himself as someone OTHER THAN “the only true God” in the above verse, we should be able to use the same common sense we used while discussing Satan, and conclude that Jesus is NOT “the only true God”, right?

Mark 5:7
He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!”

Luke 1:32
He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High.

In both of the above scriptures, Jesus is identified as someone OTHER THAN “the Most High God” – once by an angel, and once by a demon.  So once again, if we use that same common sense we used when discussing Satan, we will conclude that Jesus can't BE the Most High God if he is someone OTHER THAN the Most High God.

So what we have here is evidence that you, jammin, are smart enough to realize Satan can't be the Most High God because he is identified in many scriptures as someone OTHER THAN the Most High God.

And we have evidence that I use that same reasoning and common sense when it comes to Jesus……….. but YOU don't.

Why do you suppose that I'M consistent in my logic, common sense, and reasoning, while YOU are inconsistent?

Is it perhaps because you are a Trinitarian, and for your comically flawed, man-made doctrine to be fulfilled, you must force yourself to completely ignore the common sense you applied to our Satan discussion when it comes to discussing Jesus?

(Btw, why do you think the demon asked Jesus to swear to him “in God's name” that he wouldn't torture him?  Why can't Jesus swear in HIS OWN name, if he is actually God?)

jammin, if your doctrine only allows you to practice common sense and logic SOME OF THE TIME, perhaps it's time for you to find a new doctrine.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 03 2013,02:01)

now for the creation. pls read gen 1 you can find it there

I can read in Job that the sons of God (angels) were shouting for joy when God created the earth.  So obviously, there were beings already in existence when the creation mentioned in Genesis took place.

I'm asking you which BEING you think God created first.  Was it Michael, the archangel?  Gabriel?  Some other angel?

I'm only asking for your best GUESS here, because scripture doesn't say.

[terraricca]

carmel

Quote

Jeremiah 32:27 Behold I am the Lord the God of all flesh: shall any thing be hard for me? God confirmed above ,that although it is a too hard process to become GOD IN FLESH HE ACHIEVED IT THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRST, THE WORD. BUT HE STILL REMAINED A SPIRIT, HE LOST NOTHING OF HIS ORIGINAL STATE. SO HE IS FUNCTIONING WITHIN HIS SON, THE MEDIATOR,THE WORD, JESUS CHRIST BUT BOTH AS FLESH AND SPIRIT,UNITED AS ONE FOR ETERNITY. THEREFORE GOD FROM A COMPLETE SPIRIT BEING ONLY, HE BECAME ALSO: THE COMPLETE BEING, OF BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH, THE ONLY TRUE GOD HIS TASK NOW IS THAT HE PUTS ALL JESUS’ ENEMIES AS HIS FOOTSTOOL. ALL CREATURES MUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT JESUS INHERITED ALL GOD’S ATTRIBUTES AND IS THE MOST POWERFULL AND ONLY TRUE GOD, TILL THE LAST DAY WHEN GOD AS A SPIRIT WOULD BE : ALL JESUS’ SPIRITUAL CREATURES IN ALL JESUS’ CARNAL CREATURES THE MYSTICAL BODY OF JESUS CHRIST! THE SON’S KINGDOM GOD’S KINGDOM

man ,who man,scriptures do not say that ,and it is only in your own head that that his true ,

can you not read the scriptures without adding to it things of your own ,??? you do not make sens to me ,I walk with black and white ,colors ,

Quote

WRONG! IT IS HALF TRUTH!!! AS A SPIRIT, HE IS BOTH COMPLETELY SEPARATED, AND ALSO UNITED AS ONE WITHIN THE FATHER. TWO FUNCTIONS. WHILE THE SON WAS IN THE WORLD,AS FLESH SUBSTANCE OF THE WORD, JESUS, HE WAS BOTH GOD IN FLESH, GOD IN JESUS, THE FATHER IN THE SON, THE WORD, AND ALSO IN HEAVEN WITHIN THE FATHER’S DIVINITY. HE CONFIRMED THIS IN JOHN 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,

Christ the son of God known as the WORD put off his glory and came to be among us ,so he could not be God the father and man ,

religion as done a good job on you to confuse you that bad ,PLEASE START TO BELIEVE SCRIPTURES JUST THE WAY THEY ARE GIVEN TO YOU BY GOD ,YOU TRY TO MAKE IT ,SO THAT IT WOULD TAKE A BRAIN OF A SCHOLAR TO UNDERSTAND THE SCRIPTURES ,BUT IT DOES NOT ,CHILDREN CAN UNDERSTAND IT BETTER ,

I MEAN WHAT I SAY ,IF YOU THINK IT IS NOT TRUE SHOW A SCRIPTURE TO ME THAT SAYS THAT IS WRONG ,BUT IN YOUR CASE I HAVE TO PUT THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURES AGAINST WHAT YOU TEACHING ,THIS IS TO MUCH WORK FOR ME ,

LOOK UP SOME OF MY QUOTES AND TOPICS AND PICK ONE AND SHOW ME IT IS NOT TRUE ,WITH A SCRIPTURE

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2013,11:18)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 03 2013,02:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2013,08:59) jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?  YES or NO? the capital G should be given to the true God, the most high God and not god. Okay, I agree that the capital “G” should only be given to the Most High God, the One called “the only true God” by Jesus himself. So let's use what we learned in our discussion about whether or not Satan was God Almighty, and apply that same logic and reasoning to Jesus.   We both concluded that Satan is NOT God Almighty – not because there is a scripture that specifically says, “Satan is not God Almighty” – but because Satan is many times listed as someone OTHER THAN God Almighty, right? Let's use that same common sense in the following scriptures: John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Since Jesus lists himself as someone OTHER THAN “the only true God” in the above verse, we should be able to use the same common sense we used while discussing Satan, and conclude that Jesus is NOT “the only true God”, right? Mark 5:7 He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. In both of the above scriptures, Jesus is identified as someone OTHER THAN “the Most High God” – once by an angel, and once by a demon.  So once again, if we use that same common sense we used when discussing Satan, we will conclude that Jesus can't BE the Most High God if he is someone OTHER THAN the Most High God. So what we have here is evidence that you, jammin, are smart enough to realize Satan can't be the Most High God because he is identified in many scriptures as someone OTHER THAN the Most High God. And we have evidence that I use that same reasoning and common sense when it comes to Jesus……….. but YOU don't. Why do you suppose that I'M consistent in my logic, common sense, and reasoning, while YOU are inconsistent? Is it perhaps because you are a Trinitarian, and for your comically flawed, man-made doctrine to be fulfilled, you must force yourself to completely ignore the common sense you applied to our Satan discussion when it comes to discussing Jesus? (Btw, why do you think the demon asked Jesus to swear to him “in God's name” that he wouldn't torture him?  Why can't Jesus swear in HIS OWN name, if he is actually God?) jammin, if your doctrine only allows you to practice common sense and logic SOME OF THE TIME, perhaps it's time for you to find a new doctrine.

LOL

the father is truly God

the son is also truly God.
do you understand that boy?

ill give you an example.
do you believe that your father is truly HUMAN?

if yes, do you believe that you, just like your father, is truly HUMAN? yes or no?

answer these boy

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2013,11:20)

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 03 2013,02:01) now for the creation. pls read gen 1 you can find it there I can read in Job that the sons of God (angels) were shouting for joy when God created the earth.  So obviously, there were beings already in existence when the creation mentioned in Genesis took place. I'm asking you which BEING you think God created first.  Was it Michael, the archangel?  Gabriel?  Some other angel? I'm only asking for your best GUESS here, because scripture doesn't say.

if the bible is silent, you must be silent.

do not conclude that Christ was the first creation created by God bec paul did not say that.

he said firstborn of all creation and that is not literally created.
the context proves that it refers to the supremacy of Christ. pls read commentaries also. scholars know more than you know.
also, the bible proves that it talks about supremacy of Christ.

Colossians 1:15

New Century Version (NCV)
The Importance of Christ

15 No one can see God, but Jesus Christ is exactly like him. He ranks higher than everything that has been made.

did you see that boy? study hard

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 06 2013,20:16)

if the bible is silent, you must be silent. do not conclude that Christ was the first creation created by God bec paul did not say that. he said firstborn of all creation and that is not literally created. the context proves that it refers to the supremacy of Christ. pls read commentaries also. scholars know more than you know. also, the bible proves that it talks about supremacy of Christ. Colossians 1:15 New Century Version (NCV) The Importance of Christ 15 No one can see God, but Jesus Christ is exactly like him. He ranks higher than everything that has been made. did you see that boy? study hard

Jammin……………You are right in this Boy,

peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Mar. 06 2013,03:12)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 05 2013,11:18) Quote (jammin @ Mar. 03 2013,02:00) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 28 2013,08:59) jammin, do you agree with me that ONLY the MOST HIGH God should get the capital “G”?  YES or NO? the capital G should be given to the true God, the most high God and not god. Okay, I agree that the capital “G” should only be given to the Most High God, the One called “the only true God” by Jesus himself. So let's use what we learned in our discussion about whether or not Satan was God Almighty, and apply that same logic and reasoning to Jesus.   We both concluded that Satan is NOT God Almighty – not because there is a scripture that specifically says, “Satan is not God Almighty” – but because Satan is many times listed as someone OTHER THAN God Almighty, right? Let's use that same common sense in the following scriptures: John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Since Jesus lists himself as someone OTHER THAN “the only true God” in the above verse, we should be able to use the same common sense we used while discussing Satan, and conclude that Jesus is NOT “the only true God”, right? Mark 5:7 He shouted at the top of his voice, “What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? In God’s name don’t torture me!” Luke 1:32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. In both of the above scriptures, Jesus is identified as someone OTHER THAN “the Most High God” – once by an angel, and once by a demon.  So once again, if we use that same common sense we used when discussing Satan, we will conclude that Jesus can't BE the Most High God if he is someone OTHER THAN the Most High God. So what we have here is evidence that you, jammin, are smart enough to realize Satan can't be the Most High God because he is identified in many scriptures as someone OTHER THAN the Most High God. And we have evidence that I use that same reasoning and common sense when it comes to Jesus……….. but YOU don't. Why do you suppose that I'M consistent in my logic, common sense, and reasoning, while YOU are inconsistent? Is it perhaps because you are a Trinitarian, and for your comically flawed, man-made doctrine to be fulfilled, you must force yourself to completely ignore the common sense you applied to our Satan discussion when it comes to discussing Jesus? (Btw, why do you think the demon asked Jesus to swear to him “in God's name” that he wouldn't torture him?  Why can't Jesus swear in HIS OWN name, if he is actually God?) jammin, if your doctrine only allows you to practice common sense and logic SOME OF THE TIME, perhaps it's time for you to find a new doctrine. the father is truly God

jammin,

Haven't I just listed scriptures that identify Jesus as someone OTHER THAN “the only true God” and “the Most High God”?  YES I have.

And didn't you just say that the “only true God” and “Most High God” is the ONLY one who should get the capital “G”?

Yes you did.

Now you only need to adhere to your own words, jammin.

[terraricca]

Carmel

Quote

Christ is his first creation

Quote

Terraricca THAT’S A HUGE LIE:

Col 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation

why his Christ the first of all creation because of this ;;;Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

2CO 5:18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

1CO 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom are all things and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

1CO 15:27 For HE HAS PUT ALL THINGS IN SUBJECTION UNDER HIS FEET. But when He says, “ All things are put in subjection,” it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.

1CO 15:28 When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.

HEB 1:2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

Rev 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

Col 1:16 For by him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible

all those scriptures show that Christ his the first and that all creation was created through him

SO MY STATEMENT THAT CHRIST HIS THE FIRST CREATION IS TRUE

[mikeboll64]

Hmmm…………

The words are “firstborn of every creature”.  Yet jammin says it must mean something other than the most sensible understanding, because he doesn't WANT Jesus to have been created at all.

And Gene says it must mean something other than the most sensible understanding, because he doesn't WANT Jesus to have been created before the world began.

Yet Jesus calls himself “the beginning of the creation by God”. (Rev 3:14)  And Paul speaks about when God again sends His “firstborn” into world.  (Heb 1:6)

But naturally, you both will come up with other things these clear words mean as well, right?  Because neither of you WANTS the most obvious and sensible understanding of those words to be the truth, right?  

What it you're wrong? What if “firstborn of every creature” means exactly what it sounds like it means?

[carmel]

Quote

=mikeboll64,Mar. 05 2013,11:18]

Quote

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Since Jesus lists himself as someone OTHER THAN “the only true God”

Mike,

READ:

Since Jesus lists himself ALSOas someone OTHER THAN “the only true God”

AND:

Since you never broke down, and analyzed scriptures which contradicts your belief ,

 I will do it for you with the HOPE !!! that I would make you  discern the TRUTH

PLEASE GIVE REASONS ACCORINGLY TO STRENGTHEN WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS THE TRUTH!

SO READ:

John 17:3
Now this is eternal life:

TO WHOM JESUS REFERED, WITH:  

NOW!!!! THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE!!!!

TO HIMSELF,

TO HIS FATHER

OR TO BOTH???

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

mikeboll64,Mar. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

The words are “firstborn of every creature”.  Yet jammin says it must mean something other than the most sensible understanding, because he doesn't WANT Jesus to have been created at all.

Mike,

OK!

define:

THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE!

IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT JESUS WAS EVER CREATED!

I AM WAITING SO DO NOT IGNORE MY POST IN ORDER TO DEFINE IT AFTERWORDS MYSELF AND PROVE THAT HE WAS NEVER CREATED!

ALSO:

Yet Jesus calls himself “the beginning of the creation by God”.

THIS IT DOESN MEAN THAT JESUS' SPIRIT WAS EVER CREATED

IT SIMPLY MEAN:

THAT GOD USED HIS SON'S SPIRIT, THE WORD, GOD, WHO WAS ETERNALLY ONE WITH THE FATHER, IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION AS A MEDIATOR,AND COMMENCED CREATION.

IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU MIKE, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU IGNORE THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS A TRIUNE GOD.

NOW THE WORD  GOD, AS A MEDIATORE, AND CREATORE IS THAT:

BOTH THE FATHER,AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, WERE WITHIN THE SON'S SPIRIT AS THE MEDIATOR!

TILL GOD CREATED THE ENTIRE CREATION!

WHEN ALL WAS CREATED, THE WORD

BECAME FLESH, MAN/GOD SIMPLY:

BY KEEPING THE SAME FUNCTION,WITHIN JESUS AS MAN/GOD AND THAT IS

THE FATHER'S SPIRIT, WITHIN THE HOLY SPIRIT AS JESUS' SOUL, BOTH WITHIN JESUS' SPIRIT BUT AS A HUMAN FLESH SUBSTANCE.

THE GODHEAD CARNALLY!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[terraricca]

Mike

Quote

Yet Jesus calls himself “the beginning of the creation by God”. THIS IT DOESN MEAN THAT JESUS' SPIRIT WAS EVER CREATED IT SIMPLY MEAN: THAT GOD USED HIS SON'S SPIRIT, THE WORD, GOD, WHO WAS ETERNALLY ONE WITH THE FATHER, IN A DIFFERENT FUNCTION AS A MEDIATOR,AND COMMENCED CREATION.

this is Carmel quote to you ;IT SEEMS TO ME THAT HE DOES NOT WANT THAT JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD “WAS CREATED ” AND SO LIKE THE OTHERS ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO ANNUL THE VERSES YOU PRESENT TO BE SAYING JUST THAT ,BUT THEY MAKE IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE ,AND THEN ASK YOU TO PROVE WHAT THEY DO NOT WANT TO SEE

[mikeboll64]

Charles,

How about YOU answer MY question: In John 17:3, DOES Jesus CLEARLY identify himself as someone OTHER THAN “the only true God”?  YES or NO?

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 08 2013,00:25)

TO WHOM JESUS REFERED, WITH:   NOW!!!! THIS IS ETERNAL LIFE!!!! TO HIMSELF, TO HIS FATHER OR TO BOTH???

None of the above.  Jesus is saying that THE WAY TO eternal life is taking in knowledge of both him, AND the “only true God”, who is not only OUR God, but also JESUS' God.

He is not calling anyone “eternal life” in that verse.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 08 2013,17:57)

IT SEEMS TO ME THAT HE DOES NOT WANT THAT JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD “WAS CREATED ” AND SO LIKE THE OTHERS ALWAYS FIND A WAY TO ANNUL THE VERSES YOU PRESENT TO BE SAYING JUST THAT ,BUT THEY MAKE IT TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE ,AND THEN ASK YOU TO PROVE WHAT THEY DO NOT WANT TO SEE

Amen, brother!

Why can't the words in scripture just mean the most obvious and sensible thing?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 08 2013,00:53)

IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU MIKE, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU IGNORE THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS A TRIUNE GOD.

Actually Charles,

The fact that you DO want our ONE God to be some kind of multi-personality freak is the reason you can't accept “I am the beginning of the creation by God” for the most obvious and sensible meaning – which is:  Jesus was the first thing God ever created.

It's not like there is just ONE scripture that you have to twist into a nonsensical meaning.  You have to twist Prov 8:22, Col 1:15, Micah 5:2, Rev 3:14, Heb 1:6…… and many others as well.

Do ALL of those scriptures have some oddball, nonsensical meaning, Charles?  Must we imagine that ALL of them mean something other than the most obvious and sensible meaning – just so your comically flawed, man-made doctrine can be fulfilled?

You do it if you want to.  I refuse to make nonsense out of perfectly clear scriptures – just to appease my own personal desires.

I do, however, wish you the best on your spiritual journey, and hope that you will soon come to accept the words of scripture as they were written.

I pray that you will come to accept our one God, the Father, AND His only begotten Son……… instead of a made up God who CONSISTS OF a Father and a Son.

[carmel]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2013,12:10)

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 08 2013,00:53) IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU MIKE, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU IGNORE THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS A TRIUNE GOD. Actually Charles, The fact that you DO want our ONE God to be some kind of multi-personality freak is the reason you can't accept “I am the beginning of the creation by God” for the most obvious and sensible meaning – which is:  Jesus was the first thing God ever created. It's not like there is just ONE scripture that you have to twist into a nonsensical meaning.  You have to twist Prov 8:22, Col 1:15, Micah 5:2, Rev 3:14, Heb 1:6…… and many others as well. Do ALL of those scriptures have some oddball, nonsensical meaning, Charles?  Must we imagine that ALL of them mean something other than the most obvious and sensible meaning – just so your comically flawed, man-made doctrine can be fulfilled? You do it if you want to.  I refuse to make nonsense out of perfectly clear scriptures – just to appease my own personal desires. I do, however, wish you the best on your spiritual journey, and hope that you will soon come to accept the words of scripture as they were written. I pray that you will come to accept our one God, the Father, AND His only begotten Son……… instead of a made up God who CONSISTS OF a Father and a Son.

Quote

Do ALL of those scriptures have some oddball, nonsensical meaning, Charles?

Mike,

ARE YOU GOING TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR POINT THAT THE BELOW IS A PROOF THAT THE SON'S SPIRIT WAS CREATED?

HAVE A GO MIKE!

define:

THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE!

IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT JESUS WAS EVER CREATED!

I AM WAITING !!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[terraricca]

Quote (carmel @ Mar. 09 2013,21:50)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 09 2013,12:10) Quote (carmel @ Mar. 08 2013,00:53) IT IS DIFFICULT FOR YOU MIKE, SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU IGNORE THE BELIEF THAT GOD IS A TRIUNE GOD. Actually Charles, The fact that you DO want our ONE God to be some kind of multi-personality freak is the reason you can't accept “I am the beginning of the creation by God” for the most obvious and sensible meaning – which is:  Jesus was the first thing God ever created. It's not like there is just ONE scripture that you have to twist into a nonsensical meaning.  You have to twist Prov 8:22, Col 1:15, Micah 5:2, Rev 3:14, Heb 1:6…… and many others as well. Do ALL of those scriptures have some oddball, nonsensical meaning, Charles?  Must we imagine that ALL of them mean something other than the most obvious and sensible meaning – just so your comically flawed, man-made doctrine can be fulfilled? You do it if you want to.  I refuse to make nonsense out of perfectly clear scriptures – just to appease my own personal desires. I do, however, wish you the best on your spiritual journey, and hope that you will soon come to accept the words of scripture as they were written. I pray that you will come to accept our one God, the Father, AND His only begotten Son……… instead of a made up God who CONSISTS OF a Father and a Son. Quote Do ALL of those scriptures have some oddball, nonsensical meaning, Charles? Mike, ARE YOU GOING TO SUBSTANTIATE YOUR POINT THAT THE BELOW IS A PROOF THAT THE SON'S SPIRIT WAS CREATED? HAVE A GO MIKE! define: THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE! IN ORDER TO PROVE THAT JESUS WAS EVER CREATED! I AM WAITING !!! Peace and love in Jesus Charles

Charles

Quote

define: THE FIRSTBORN OF EVERY CREATURE!

firstborn = first come into live

of every creature = before all other creature

[Author]

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