JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35)

JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.

Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.

I don't really want to be in this discussion you're having with Kerwin. I just wanted you to be aware that even some Trinitarians understand WHAT Kerwin is saying – even if they don't agree with him in the end.

that is just an opinion from men.
jesus will not tolerate those words if he was wrong.

john said he is God.
paul said he is God.
thomas said he is God.

that is what the bible says.

December 28, 2012 at 3:04 pm#326125

Participant

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Where in scripture can I read about Satan owning Adam's soul?

GENESIS:2:17
But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat. for in what day soever thou shalt eat of it, thou shalt die the death.

Mike,

EXPLAIN HOW GOD WAS SO PRECISE IN HIS WORDS WHEN HE SAID:

FOR IN WHAT DAY SOEVER YOU SHALL EAT, YOU SHALL DIE THE DEATH

AND ADAM DIED 930 YEARS AFTER, INSTEAD IN THE SAME DAY THAT HE COMMITTED HIS SIN???

WHAT KIND OF DEATH ADAM DIED IN???

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 28, 2012 at 3:38 pm#326127

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,12:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35)

JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.

Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.

that is just an opinion from men.
jesus will not tolerate those words if he was wrong.

john said he is God.
paul said he is God.
thomas said he is God.

that is what the bible says.

Jammin………But Jesus Said THOU ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD seems you have a problem on who you are going to believe Boy.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………….ene

December 28, 2012 at 8:31 pm#326136

Ed J

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,12:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35)

JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.

Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.

that is just an opinion from men.
jesus will not tolerate those words if he was wrong.

john said he is God.
paul said he is God.
thomas said he is God.

that is what the bible says.

Hi Jammin,

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they said Jesus is the “Son of God” instead; as did Jesus.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

December 28, 2012 at 9:04 pm#326138

Participant

To all………..Joh 4:24….> GOD is a “SPIRIT” A spirit is not a person “IT” is the Intellect that resides (IN) a Person, a Living Soul. “IT” animated that Person or Soul. There are seven destinct Spirits that make up the one GOD or Elohim. These seven Spirits reside in yehweh and go out before him into all creation. They make up what scripture calls the “eyes” of God another words his perceptions, Jesus has these Seven Spirit in him now as shown in Revelations and therefore is able to judge as God judges, These seven Spirit's are not his Spirits but The Father yehweh's . The Spirit of Truth is just one of those Spirits of GOD. “IT” enables us by giving us a cognance, to percieve truth when we hear it. Therefore it says he could even fool the very elect “IF” it were “POSSIBLE”, The elect have the Spirit of truth “in” them and can not be fooled by a lie. There are seven destinct types of Spirits of God and each supplies it's own cognance or intellects to us. IMO

peace and lvoe to you all……………………….gene

December 28, 2012 at 9:21 pm#326139

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,11:28)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 28 2012,02:30)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,11:21)

kerwin,

the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.

do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?

now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?

Jammin………..Please show where scripture say Jesus is the “ONLY” Son of God. if you can.

If you would have read past where Thomas said My Lord “AND” My GOD. This is what you would have read, “But these are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ (anointed one) , the “SON” of GOD .

All who have God the Fathers Spirit in them are “NOW “SONS OF GOD> Need Proof?

1 John 3:2…..> Beloved, now are we the “SONS” of God……,

You left out the word >BEGOTTEN< from you quote of Jesus being the "ONLY" Son of GOD. Jesus is in deed the ONLY ONE "NOW" BEGOTTEN from the Creation unto Eternal Life into the Kingdom of GOD , But certanily not the ONLY SON OF GOD. He is the "FIRSTBORN" from mankind Son of GOD, not the only one to be born into the kingdom of God. He is the First of many brothern to be born into the kingdom of God scripture says.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

this proves that you are not reading your bible

well ill give the verse

John 3:18

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

18 People who believe in God’s Son are not judged guilty. But people who do not believe are already judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son.

now how do we became God's son?

John 1:12

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

12 But some people did accept him. They believed in him, and he gave them the right to become children of God.

that is the reason boy.
do not compare that to Christ. he is the ONLY SON

Jammin………John 3:18…> He that believeth on him is not comdemned; but he that believes not is condemned already, becasue he has not believed in the “NAME” of the “only begotten” Son of God.

Now Jammin what to you is the “only Begotten” mean and what was he Begotten from . Here is a hint for you Jesus is the On ly one Betotten from manKind at this time the First to be “BORN into the kindom of God from Mankind.

If you are going to quote something you should quote it all Boy>

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

December 29, 2012 at 2:34 am#326157

kerwin

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,07:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35)

JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.

Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.

that is just an opinion from men.
jesus will not tolerate those words if he was wrong.

john said he is God.
paul said he is God.
thomas said he is God.

that is what the bible says.

Jammin,

Customarily Jews called Yawheh by titles and not by name. Both Thomas and Jesus are Jews and so knew this. That is why Thomas is not going to say Yawheh is my God and Jesus is not going to rebuke Thomas for not doing so.

The bottom line is that Thomas was expressing his faith that Jesus had been raised from the dead.

December 29, 2012 at 4:19 am#326165

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 29 2012,01:38)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,12:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35)

JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.

Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.

that is just an opinion from men.
jesus will not tolerate those words if he was wrong.

john said he is God.
paul said he is God.
thomas said he is God.

that is what the bible says.

Jammin………But Jesus Said THOU ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD seems you have a problem on who you are going to believe Boy.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………….ene

he refers that to the father. we do not have two God the father.

read the context. that is not the only verse of the bible.

thomas said JESUS IS LORD AND GOD
paul SAID HE IS GOD
john said he is GOD

December 29, 2012 at 4:24 am#326167

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 29 2012,12:34)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,07:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 28 2012,11:58)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35)

JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.

Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.

that is just an opinion from men.
jesus will not tolerate those words if he was wrong.

john said he is God.
paul said he is God.
thomas said he is God.

that is what the bible says.

Jammin,

The bottom line is that Thomas was expressing his faith that Jesus had been raised from the dead.

yes thomas is expressing his faith
let us post the verses
John 20:28-29

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

28 Thomas said to Jesus, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “You believe because you see me. Great blessings belong to the people who believe without seeing me!”

thomas said to jesus, my LORD AND MY GOD

jesus answered , you believe bec you see me…
jesus did not say , STOP! im not LORD AND GOD.

he will not tolerate such words. truly he is LORD AND GOD.

the apostles believe he is GOD just like his father.
Philippians 2:6

New Living Translation (NLT)

6 Though he was God,
he did not think of equality with God
as something to cling to.

John 1:1

New Living Translation (NLT)
Prologue: Christ, the Eternal Word

1 In the beginning the Word already existed.
The Word was with God,
and the Word was God.
John 1:14

New Living Translation (NLT)

14 So the Word became human[a] and made his home among us. He was full of unfailing love and faithfulness. And we have seen his glory, the glory of the Father’s one and only Son.

the WORD IS THE NAME/TITILE OF CHRIST
he is the ONE AND ONLY SON

Revelation 19:13

New Living Translation (NLT)

13 He wore a robe dipped in blood, and his title was the Word of God.

btw you are not still answering my question
my father's name is john

my example is
jammin responded to john, MY FATHER!

does it mean that john is NOT my father? yes or no>?

December 29, 2012 at 4:37 am#326168

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 29 2012,07:21)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,11:28)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 28 2012,02:30)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,11:21)

kerwin,

the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.

do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?

now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?

Jammin………..Please show where scripture say Jesus is the “ONLY” Son of God. if you can.

All who have God the Fathers Spirit in them are “NOW “SONS OF GOD> Need Proof?

1 John 3:2…..> Beloved, now are we the “SONS” of God……,

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

this proves that you are not reading your bible

well ill give the verse

John 3:18

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

18 People who believe in God’s Son are not judged guilty. But people who do not believe are already judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son.

now how do we became God's son?

John 1:12

Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

12 But some people did accept him. They believed in him, and he gave them the right to become children of God.

that is the reason boy.
do not compare that to Christ. he is the ONLY SON

If you are going to quote something you should quote it all Boy>

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

begotten when it refers to christ means unique.
if you want me to believe your explanation, give me the verse of your stories.

what i can read is begotten means unique
John 3:16

Amplified Bible (AMP)

16 For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten ([a]unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

unique means one of a kind

John 1:14

The Message (MSG)

14 The Word became flesh and blood,
and moved into the neighborhood.
We saw the glory with our own eyes,
the one-of-a-kind glory,
like Father, like Son,
Generous inside and out,
true from start to finish.

other meaning of begotten is much loved

John 1:14

New Life Version (NLV)

14 Christ became human flesh and lived among us. We saw His shining-greatness. This greatness is given only to a much-loved Son from His Father. He was full of loving-favor and truth.

a commentary from barne

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
His only-begotten Son – See the notes at John 1:14. This is the highest expression of love of which we can conceive. A parent who should give up his only son to die for others who are guilty if this could or might be done – would show higher love than could be manifested in any other way. So it shows the depth of the love of God, that he was willing. to give his only Son into the hands of sinful men that he might be slain, and thus redeem them from eternal sorrow.

sorry boy but that is a WORD FOR WORD IN THE BIBLE>

CHRIST IS THE ONLY SON OF GOD
John 1:14

New International Version (NIV)

14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

December 29, 2012 at 7:18 am#326182

Participant

Quote

But Jesus Said THOU ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD

Gene,

READ AND ANSWER!!!

The full sentence is:

Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee,

WHO IS THE ETERNAL LIFE???

HOW THEN THE FATHER WOULD BE KNOWN???

THROUGH WHAT PROCESS THE FATHER WOULD BE KNOWN???

AS:

the only true God, and Jesus Christ,

PURPOSELY SENT FOR THIS PROCESS OTHERWISE GOD WOULD REMAIN UNKNOWN!!!

whom thou hast sent.

December 29, 2012 at 4:34 pm#326201

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 28 2012,08:04)

AND ADAM DIED 930 YEARS AFTER, INSTEAD IN THE SAME DAY THAT HE COMMITTED HIS SIN?

If a thousand years to us is like a day to God (Psalm 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8), and no man was ever recorded as living more than a thousand years, we can accurately say that Adam DID in fact die in the very “day” he ate of the fruit, right?

December 29, 2012 at 4:39 pm#326203

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,19:06)

that is just an opinion from men.

Agreed. But take note that the OPINION the NETNotes scholars ultimately end up with is that Thomas was indeed revealing that Jesus was God Almighty Himself.

I only pointed that info out to show you that, even though they opine a DIFFERENT conclusion than Kerwin does, they do offer Kerwin's conclusion as one of the possibilities. And they are Trinitarians, jammin.

That means that certain Trinitarians are honest enough to at least list Kerwin's understanding as one of the POSSIBILITIES of Thomas' words.

They don't AGREE with Kerwin's conclusion, but offer it as a possibility.

One should go into these things with knowledge of ALL possibilities before siding with the one that comes closest to their own doctrine.

Just be aware that there ARE other possibilities. You can't say Kerwin is automatically wrong, because his understanding is definitely one of the possibilities of what Thomas meant.

I will demonstrate this fact in my next post.

December 29, 2012 at 4:56 pm#326205

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 29 2012,17:18)

Quote

But Jesus Said THOU ARE THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD

Gene,

READ AND ANSWER!!!

The full sentence is:

Now this is eternal life: That they may know thee,

WHO IS THE ETERNAL LIFE???

HOW THEN THE FATHER WOULD BE KNOWN???

THROUGH WHAT PROCESS THE FATHER WOULD BE KNOWN???

AS:

the only true God, and Jesus Christ,

PURPOSELY SENT FOR THIS PROCESS OTHERWISE GOD WOULD REMAIN UNKNOWN!!!

whom thou hast sent.

Carmel………..Point is Jesus and the ONLY TRUE GOD he was talking about there are not one and the same being. The one and only True God was “IN” Jesus, but that does not make the person GOd is “IN” a GOD nor does it make Jesus a GOD either. This is not hard to undertand Carmel.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene

December 29, 2012 at 5:00 pm#326206

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 28 2012,21:24)

my example is
jammin responded to john, MY FATHER!

does it mean that john is NOT my father? yes or no>?

Okay,

Let's lay out the storyline first.

jammin watched his father, John, die in a car accident. He hosted his father's funeral, and laid him to rest in the family cemetery plot.

Years went by, and one day, jammin was walking to the store to get some more mosquito coil for himself, when suddenly, he heard a voice from behind him saying, “jammin, my son! I've missed you all of these years!”

jammin turned around to see it was indeed his father, whom he buried in the family plot all those years ago. Overcome by emotion, jammin said to him, “My father!”, and, “My God!”

Now that we have the story, it is clear that John truly was your father. It is not so clear that you thought John was also your God. Your words COULD BE understood as, “My father! Oh my God, how can this be?!?”

Anyway, there are two sides to every story, jammin. And the fact that John, just three verse later, wrote, “these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God”, needs to also be considered. (Well, that statement, along with the hundreds of other scriptures that CLEARLY testify that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN the God he is the Son of.)

In short, one cannot SENSIBLY build a doctrine on the excited exclamation of one man who was seeing someone he never thought he'd see again. You cannot SENSIBLY ignore all the other scriptures that speak of Jesus being the Son, Servant, Prophet, Word, Messiah, Lamb, creation, Holy One, firstborn, Priest, Mediator, only begotten, and Messenger OF God – just to focus on the words that Thomas exclaimed in 20:28.

December 29, 2012 at 5:06 pm#326207

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 29 2012,14:37)

[

unique means one of a kind

Jesus was indeed (Uniquely Begotten) Just like Adam was a uniquely begotten So of GOD also.

He was unique because God created a (Second ) Adam just as Paul explained and the second uniquely created Adam was a MAN Called Jesus, who had half of his HUMAN DNA Made by GOD'S Spirit. So he would look as Isiah described him to look.

No where does any Scripture say Jesus was “MORPHED” from another Previous existence in any bible text.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………….gene

December 29, 2012 at 8:56 pm#326241

Participant

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

If a thousand years to us is like a day to God (Psalm 90:4, 2 Peter 3:8),

Mike,

I know that your pleasure is always CARNAL, BUT PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT WE ARE DISCUSSING SPIRITUALITY.

I ASKED YOU ALSO:

WHAT KIND OF DEATH ADAM DIED IN???

SO ANSWER THIS NOW!!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 29, 2012 at 9:13 pm#326242

Participant

Gene wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

This is not hard to undertand Carmel.

Gene,

But for you it is since you didn't answer my questions!!!

SO HERE THEY ARE AGAIN:

WHO IS THE ETERNAL LIFE???

HOW THEN THE FATHER WOULD BE KNOWN???

THROUGH WHAT PROCESS THE FATHER WOULD BE KNOWN???

TO REMIND YOU GOD IS THE ONLY GENUINE PURE INVISIBLE UNIQUE SPIRIT:

AND IT WAS,AND STILL IS NOT POSSIBLE FOR HIM TO MAKE HIMSELF VISIBLE TO HIS CREATURES UNLESS THEY ARE DESTROYED.

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 29, 2012 at 9:26 pm#326245

Participant

Caemel………..God make himelf known to you by Answering you prayors, If ypu don;t have a true personal relationship with God the Father then you simply do not know him. Paul said………> tell me this ,He (God) that works mircales among you, does He do it by works of Law or by Hearing of You “FAITH” ?

God has eternal life and this Life is now in Jesus and all who have his Spirit in them also. if the Spirit that raised Jesus Chrit from the Dead dwell “IN” you “IT” shall “ALSO” quicken you mortal (dead) “BODY”.

God is a Spirit and can indwell anyone he choses to by that same Spirit that was in Jesus Our Lord, Not GOD. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………gene

December 29, 2012 at 9:32 pm#326246