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Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,23:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,01:48) What is there is that Lord(kyrios) in John 20:28 is not the same word as Lord(kyrion), which is used in John 20:25 to refer to Jesus.
that Thomas had previously declared he would not believe Jesus was alive without certain evidence.
that Jesus presented that evidence and instructed him to believe.
that Thomas' words were in response to finding Jesus alive and Jesus' words.
It seemed like you were beginning to set up some “defense” or “explanation” of Jesus' words in 20:28, but then just stopped short of your findings.What CONCLUSION does all this info lead you to, Kerwin?
Mike,I suspicion Thomas was responding and stating his faith just like some say God is good.
stories have no room here. give us a version that says that thomas is referring to the father when he said MY LORD AND MY GOD in john 20.28what i can read is thomas responded to JESUS and not to the father. he said Christ is his Lord and God. that is what the bible said
jammin,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote what i can read is thomas responded to JESUS and not to the father. he said Christ is his Lord and God. that is what the bible said Jammin,
Christ is called GOD only through glorification,which means that the HOLY SPIRIT UNIFIED HIMSELF WITH THE BODY OF JESUS, AFTER JESUS RAISED HIS OWN BODY UP!!!
IT WAS VITAL FOR JESUS TO RAISE HIS OWN BODY FIRST,AS HE SAID,THIS TO CONFIRM THAT HE WAS A HUMAN BEING, HE HIMSELF SPIRITUALIZED HIS BODY, THROUGH HIS HOLY LIFE, SOMETHING THAT WE ALSO EVENTUALLY DO IN A TWINKLE OF AN EYE.
THAT'S WHY THOMAS CALLED HIM:
LORD: FROM JESUS POINT OF VIEW, AND GOD: FROM THE HOLY SPIRIT POINT OF VIEW.
BUT ON THE LAST DAY:
THE FATHER HIMSELF WOULD BE IN THAT MYSTICAL BODY OF JESUS,
SINCE CURRENTLY THERE ARE STILL WHO DENIES THAT JESUS IS GOD.
UNLESS ALL THE ENTIRE CREATURES ACCEPT THAT JESUS IS
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST
THE FATHER NEVER ENTERS JESUS BODY.
THE REASON THAT THERE ARE TWO THRONES IN HEAVEN
ONE FOR THE FATHER AS A SPIRIT, SEEN ONLY BY THE SON.
AND ONE FOR THE SON AS GOD IN BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH.
SEEN BY ALL THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS SO!!!
JESUS WAS CLEAR:
THAT THEY( ALL THOSE WHO DENIE THAT JESUS IS THE TRUE GOD IN SPIRIT AND IN FLESH) MAY KNOW YOU!!!
SO THE REASON THAT JESUS UNIFIED HIMSELF WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT, IN ORDER FOR THE FATHER TO BE JUSTIFIED AS :
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, AND JESUS CHRIST.
BUT THROUGHN JESUS THOUGH!!!
AND THE ONLY REASON THAT THE FATHER SENT HIM!!!
AND THROUGH THAT CONCEPT WHOEVER BELIEVE IN JESUS AS THE TRUE GOD,AND JESUS CHRIST.
WILL BE REDEEMED!!!
ALSO THE REASON THAT JESUS ESTABLISHED THE
OUR FATHER
WAS FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT ONCE WE CALL OUR FATHER, WE WOULD AUTOMATICALLY BE CALLING BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON. TWO TO BECOME ONE,AS THEY WERE BEFORE CREATION,BUT INSTEAD AS SPIRITS,
AS SPIRIT AND FLESH!!!
THE KINGDOM OF GOD:
YOUR KINGDOM COMES ; OBVIOUS
ALL SPIRITS, AND CARNAL CREATURES. UNIFIED AS THE BODY OF JESUS CHRIST :ALL IN HIM, ALL BY HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM.
ALL IN ALL
FOR THE FATHER TO ABIDE WITHIN ETERNALLY.
THE MANIFESTATION OF GOD FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME.
BUT ONLY AFTER THE FATHER CURRENTLY SUCCEEDS IN SERVING HIS SON,HIS OWN ABODE,UNIQUE GOD AND MAKES JESUS' ENEMIES HIS FOOTOOL, AND ACCEPT THAT
JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY GOD IN BOTH SPIRIT, AND FLESH.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 26 2012,06:53) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,23:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,01:48) What is there is that Lord(kyrios) in John 20:28 is not the same word as Lord(kyrion), which is used in John 20:25 to refer to Jesus.
that Thomas had previously declared he would not believe Jesus was alive without certain evidence.
that Jesus presented that evidence and instructed him to believe.
that Thomas' words were in response to finding Jesus alive and Jesus' words.
It seemed like you were beginning to set up some “defense” or “explanation” of Jesus' words in 20:28, but then just stopped short of your findings.What CONCLUSION does all this info lead you to, Kerwin?
Mike,I suspicion Thomas was responding and stating his faith just like some say God is good.
stories have no room here. give us a version that says that thomas is referring to the father when he said MY LORD AND MY GOD in john 20.28what i can read is thomas responded to JESUS and not to the father. he said Christ is his Lord and God. that is what the bible said
Jammin,Then stop making up stories. I am simply stating that Thomas who formerly did not believe that his fellow students saw Jesus responded to Jesus' urging him to believe by making a statement of belief. A statement Jesus understood.
Your nonsense that Thomas was answering a question that was not asked. Then you add to his words in order to make your fantasy look real. Your story has no real basis in fact.
You suspend your disbelief but suspension of disbelief is not belief in what is true.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2012,21:32) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 26 2012,06:53) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,23:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,01:48) What is there is that Lord(kyrios) in John 20:28 is not the same word as Lord(kyrion), which is used in John 20:25 to refer to Jesus.
that Thomas had previously declared he would not believe Jesus was alive without certain evidence.
that Jesus presented that evidence and instructed him to believe.
that Thomas' words were in response to finding Jesus alive and Jesus' words.
It seemed like you were beginning to set up some “defense” or “explanation” of Jesus' words in 20:28, but then just stopped short of your findings.What CONCLUSION does all this info lead you to, Kerwin?
Mike,I suspicion Thomas was responding and stating his faith just like some say God is good.
stories have no room here. give us a version that says that thomas is referring to the father when he said MY LORD AND MY GOD in john 20.28what i can read is thomas responded to JESUS and not to the father. he said Christ is his Lord and God. that is what the bible said
Jammin,Then stop making up stories. I am simply stating that Thomas who formerly did not believe that his fellow students saw Jesus responded to Jesus' urging him to believe by making a statement of belief. A statement Jesus understood.
Your nonsense that Thomas was answering a question that was not asked. Then you add to his words in order to make your fantasy look real. Your story has no real basis in fact.
You suspend your disbelief but suspension of disbelief is not belief in what is true.
your the one who makes stories.do you believe that thomas said to jesus that he is his LORD AND GOD?
take note: thomas said to jesus
MY LORD AND MY GODhe said that to jesus.
do you believe that?
who is the Lord and God of thomas according to john 20.28??
Quote Either way, the “origin” of the hierarchy is God first. Mike,
The origin of the HIERARCHI IS SIN.
IF ADAM DIDN'T SIN, THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY HIERARCHI AT ALL.
GOD ESTABLISHED HIERARCHI NOT FOR HIM,BUT TO JUSTIFY THE RIGHT RELATION BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN
IN RESPECT OF EVE'S COMMITMENT TO SATAN. IN FACT SHE HERSELF WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THAT SITUATION.
SO SINCE EVE BECAME SATAN' S SUBJECT, SHE BY RIGHT AND JUSTLY, BECAME ADAM'S SUBJECT SINCE SATAN OWNED ADAM'S SOUL.
NOW THE FACT THAT HUMANS WERE REDEEMED,AND THE SOULS BECAME FREE, PAUL'S RESPOSIBILITY WAS TO ESTABLISH THE CHURCH IN RELATION TO THE SOUL,WHICH IS THE CORNER STONE, THE HEAD, JESUS' SPIRIT SUBSTANCE OF THE CHURCH.
THE KINGDOM OF GOD ITSELF
SO HE MADE IT CLEAR THAT :
THE MAN IS THE HEAD,CORNER STONE,THE SOUL OF THE WOMAN,WITHIN THE CHURCH, SINCE ONLY ADAM RECEIVED THE SOUL FROM GOD, AND EVE RECEIVED HER KIND OF INFERIOR SOUL THROUGH ADAM'S RIB SO THE WOMAN IS NOT ENTITLED FOR THE PRIESTHOOD.
TO DAY THIS KIND OF HIERARCHI WITHIN THE CHURCH IS RESPECTED ONLY BY THE MOTHER CHURCH CATHOLIC!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:[/quote]
Quote Personally, I think you are PURPOSELY reading alot into Paul's words – simply because you WANT to Mike,
Yes, you are right and you also know why!
Through these arguments it is clear enough that
JESUS CHRIST IS THE ONLY GOD IN FLESH BODY
SINCE THE SOUL, (THE HEAD, CORNER STONE,) OF CHRIST IS GOD!!!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 26 2012,22:42) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2012,21:32) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 26 2012,06:53) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,23:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,01:48) What is there is that Lord(kyrios) in John 20:28 is not the same word as Lord(kyrion), which is used in John 20:25 to refer to Jesus.
that Thomas had previously declared he would not believe Jesus was alive without certain evidence.
that Jesus presented that evidence and instructed him to believe.
that Thomas' words were in response to finding Jesus alive and Jesus' words.
It seemed like you were beginning to set up some “defense” or “explanation” of Jesus' words in 20:28, but then just stopped short of your findings.What CONCLUSION does all this info lead you to, Kerwin?
Mike,I suspicion Thomas was responding and stating his faith just like some say God is good.
stories have no room here. give us a version that says that thomas is referring to the father when he said MY LORD AND MY GOD in john 20.28what i can read is thomas responded to JESUS and not to the father. he said Christ is his Lord and God. that is what the bible said
Jammin,Then stop making up stories. I am simply stating that Thomas who formerly did not believe that his fellow students saw Jesus responded to Jesus' urging him to believe by making a statement of belief. A statement Jesus understood.
Your nonsense that Thomas was answering a question that was not asked. Then you add to his words in order to make your fantasy look real. Your story has no real basis in fact.
You suspend your disbelief but suspension of disbelief is not belief in what is true.
your the one who makes stories.do you believe that thomas said to jesus that he is his LORD AND GOD?
take note: thomas said to jesus
MY LORD AND MY GODhe said that to jesus.
do you believe that?
who is the Lord and God of thomas according to john 20.28??
Jammin,I can read and Thomas does not reply and say you are my Lord and my God. In an earlier passage Peter does reply and say, you are the Christ the Son of the living God.
Matthew 16:16
King James Version (KJV)16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Thomas did not say “you are” nor can you make him say that without adding to Scripture. Thomas did reply to Jesus' instruction for him to believe Jesus was resurrected. Yahweh is Thomas' Lord and God.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 26 2012,12:54) SO SINCE EVE BECAME SATAN' S SUBJECT, SHE BY RIGHT AND JUSTLY, BECAME ADAM'S SUBJECT SINCE SATAN OWNED ADAM'S SOUL.
What?
Scripture, please. (And notice, I said “scripture”, not “loads and loads of unrelated scriptures”.)
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 27 2012,10:28) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 26 2012,22:42) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 26 2012,21:32) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 26 2012,06:53) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 25 2012,17:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 24 2012,23:22) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 24 2012,01:48) What is there is that Lord(kyrios) in John 20:28 is not the same word as Lord(kyrion), which is used in John 20:25 to refer to Jesus.
that Thomas had previously declared he would not believe Jesus was alive without certain evidence.
that Jesus presented that evidence and instructed him to believe.
that Thomas' words were in response to finding Jesus alive and Jesus' words.
It seemed like you were beginning to set up some “defense” or “explanation” of Jesus' words in 20:28, but then just stopped short of your findings.What CONCLUSION does all this info lead you to, Kerwin?
Mike,I suspicion Thomas was responding and stating his faith just like some say God is good.
stories have no room here. give us a version that says that thomas is referring to the father when he said MY LORD AND MY GOD in john 20.28what i can read is thomas responded to JESUS and not to the father. he said Christ is his Lord and God. that is what the bible said
Jammin,Then stop making up stories. I am simply stating that Thomas who formerly did not believe that his fellow students saw Jesus responded to Jesus' urging him to believe by making a statement of belief. A statement Jesus understood.
Your nonsense that Thomas was answering a question that was not asked. Then you add to his words in order to make your fantasy look real. Your story has no real basis in fact.
You suspend your disbelief but suspension of disbelief is not belief in what is true.
your the one who makes stories.do you believe that thomas said to jesus that he is his LORD AND GOD?
take note: thomas said to jesus
MY LORD AND MY GODhe said that to jesus.
do you believe that?
who is the Lord and God of thomas according to john 20.28??
Jammin,I can read and Thomas does not reply and say you are my Lord and my God. In an earlier passage Peter does reply and say, you are the Christ the Son of the living God.
Matthew 16:16
King James Version (KJV)16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Thomas did not say “you are” nor can you make him say that without adding to Scripture. Thomas did reply to Jesus' instruction for him to believe Jesus was resurrected. Yahweh is Thomas' Lord and God.
thomas said to jesus MY LORD AND MY GODwho is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?
kerwin,
the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?
now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 27 2012,10:50) Quote (carmel @ Dec. 26 2012,12:54) SO SINCE EVE BECAME SATAN' S SUBJECT, SHE BY RIGHT AND JUSTLY, BECAME ADAM'S SUBJECT SINCE SATAN OWNED ADAM'S SOUL.
What?Scripture, please. (And notice, I said “scripture”, not “loads and loads of unrelated scriptures”.)
Quote SO SINCE EVE BECAME SATAN' S SUBJECT, SHE BY RIGHT AND JUSTLY, BECAME ADAM'S SUBJECT SINCE SATAN OWNED ADAM'S SOUL. Mike,
That scriptural
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,11:21) kerwin, the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?
now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?
Jammin………..Please show where scripture say Jesus is the “ONLY” Son of God. if you can.If you would have read past where Thomas said My Lord “AND” My GOD. This is what you would have read, “But these are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ (anointed one) , the “SON” of GOD .
All who have God the Fathers Spirit in them are “NOW “SONS OF GOD> Need Proof?
1 John 3:2…..> Beloved, now are we the “SONS” of God……,
You left out the word >BEGOTTEN< from you quote of Jesus being the "ONLY" Son of GOD. Jesus is in deed the ONLY ONE "NOW" BEGOTTEN from the Creation unto Eternal Life into the Kingdom of GOD , But certanily not the ONLY SON OF GOD. He is the "FIRSTBORN" from mankind Son of GOD, not the only one to be born into the kingdom of God. He is the First of many brothern to be born into the kingdom of God scripture says.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,06:21) kerwin, the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?
now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?
Jammin,Beware as the devil is giving you a false definition in order to fool you. I know Jesus' nature is that he did not sin even though tempted as is common to men. God is unable to sin and so does not sin. Both Jesus and Yahweh have the nature of not sinning. Stop suspending your disbelief of that which is false and believe that which is true.
Yawheh is the Lord and the God of Thomas. Jesus is Thomas' King.
John 20:28 does not say who Thomas' Lord and God is, as its purpose is to show he now believed Jesus was raised from the dead by the power of Yawheh.
Quote (carmel @ Dec. 27 2012,07:39) Mike, read again and tell me where it isn't
Charles,Where in scripture can I read about Satan owning Adam's soul?
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 28 2012,06:34) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,06:21) kerwin, the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?
now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?
Jammin,Beware as the devil is giving you a false definition in order to fool you. I know Jesus' nature is that he did not sin even though tempted as is common to men. God is unable to sin and so does not sin. Both Jesus and Yahweh have the nature of not sinning. Stop suspending your disbelief of that which is false and believe that which is true.
Yawheh is the Lord and the God of Thomas. Jesus is Thomas' King.
John 20:28 does not say who Thomas' Lord and God is, as its purpose is to show he now believed Jesus was raised from the dead by the power of Yawheh.
ill change the sentence just for an example.my father's name is john
here is the sentence
jammin responded to john, MY FATHER!
does it mean that john is not MY FATHER? yes or no?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 28 2012,02:30) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,11:21) kerwin, the son is just like his father. the father is God by nature. the son is also God by nature just like his father.
he is the ONLY son of God.do you know how to read? thomas said to JESUS my LORD AND MY GOD. do you understand that?
now answer my question.
who is the LORD AND GOD of thomas according to john 20.28?
Jammin………..Please show where scripture say Jesus is the “ONLY” Son of God. if you can.If you would have read past where Thomas said My Lord “AND” My GOD. This is what you would have read, “But these are written that you might believe that Jesus is the Christ (anointed one) , the “SON” of GOD .
All who have God the Fathers Spirit in them are “NOW “SONS OF GOD> Need Proof?
1 John 3:2…..> Beloved, now are we the “SONS” of God……,
You left out the word >BEGOTTEN< from you quote of Jesus being the "ONLY" Son of GOD. Jesus is in deed the ONLY ONE "NOW" BEGOTTEN from the Creation unto Eternal Life into the Kingdom of GOD , But certanily not the ONLY SON OF GOD. He is the "FIRSTBORN" from mankind Son of GOD, not the only one to be born into the kingdom of God. He is the First of many brothern to be born into the kingdom of God scripture says.
peace and love to you and yours……………………………gene
this proves that you are not reading your biblewell ill give the verse
John 3:18
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
18 People who believe in God’s Son are not judged guilty. But people who do not believe are already judged, because they have not believed in God’s only Son.
now how do we became God's son?
John 1:12
Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
12 But some people did accept him. They believed in him, and he gave them the right to become children of God.
that is the reason boy.
do not compare that to Christ. he is the ONLY SONFrom NETNotes:
John 20:28
Should Thomas’ exclamation be understood as:1) two subjects with the rest of the sentence omitted (“My Lord and my God has truly risen from the dead”),
2) as predicate nominatives (“You are my Lord and my God”),
3) or as vocatives (“My Lord and my God!”)?
Probably the most likely is something between the second and third alternatives.
Even though the Trinitarians who produced NETNotes, for some undisclosed reason, end up concluding that Thomas somehow realized that Jesus was in fact Yahweh, it is important to note that their third option for 20:28 is exactly what Kerwin is trying to say.
While you don't agree with Kerwin's understanding, you have to admit that even Trinitarians acknowledge his understanding as a possibility, jammin.
mike,
those people are confused.
JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.
JESUS is Lord and God.
that is the true of the verse.Quote (jammin @ Dec. 27 2012,18:35) JESUS should correct thomas if he was wrong.
Perhaps Jesus understood that Thomas meant those words as vocatives, and that's why he didn't correct Thomas.
I don't really want to be in this discussion you're having with Kerwin. I just wanted you to be aware that even some Trinitarians understand WHAT Kerwin is saying – even if they don't agree with him in the end.
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