JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[GeneBalthrop]

Carmel………Jesus gave up his will to the Fathers will so in that sense they are one , just as if you were to give up your will to God the Fathers will you would be one also. When Jesus said him and the. Father were one he did not mean one and that same person, but one in agreement . If Jesus was the same being as the Father then how could he be his Son also. That my friend is an impossibility .

This may help you Carmel, it is a major problem in religion, and that is understanding what a Spirit is, a spirit is not a person it is what is IN a person. Spirits come in types and kinds, like clean and unclean and these spirit effect our thinking and they can be removed or added to us, none of that makes them living souls they simply effect the souls they are in, when we die these spirit leave our bodies ( souls ) and our souls corrupt in the graves and we cease to exit any longer, and unless God regenerates a new body (soul) and adds spirit back into them we are gone for ever.

Jesus is not a spirit he is a living soul with spirit in him just as we are and those spirits are what influences him just as the spirits in us influence us also. Jesus now has the seven spirit of God in him but that does not make him the spirits that are in him. Jesus is a man God is not a man scripture say.

Understanding what spirit is is a Hugh problem with religion spirits come in all kinds and types and effect us all, but none of that makes a soul because to be a soul,requires a Separate body of its own. As it says unto each he gives it a body of its own. What makes us unique is not the spirits in us because that can always be changed, but what makes us unique living souls with personalities given to us by God. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2012,11:32)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:37) who is the head of the woman? are they not both HUMAN? Man is the head of woman.  And yes, men and women are both human beings who share the same nature. Now answer mine: Who is the head of man?  Does man share the same nature as our head?

thanks for the answer.
therefore it does not mean that if the father is the head of Christ, he is not God/

nice answer boy

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2012,11:41)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:36) if i will follow your argument, all god should be GOD therefore they are like the father Yes jammin, In the earliest Greek mss, all gods were called “THEOS” – in all capital letters. Later, in the “miniscules”, the copyists switched from all caps to all lower case letters. There exists no Greek mss where only certain letters were capped, while other letters were lower case. But NO, it doesn't mean all gods are like the Father.  You should learn a lesson from this, jammin.  It really doesn't matter which letters the English translators decide to capitalize or not.  The meaning is in the CONTEXT of the words – not in which letters are capped. This sometimes HURTS people like you.  It is because of the English translators who cap the “G” in John 1:1c, that YOU believe the Word was THE God.  Had the English translators left all the letters either capped or lower case, then you would have to decide from the CONTEXT of the verse what John meant in part c. Perhaps then, your MIND would think for itself, instead of being mislead by that capital “G”, and you would be able to see the OBVIOUS fact that our one God cannot possibly be WITH our one God. But that capped “G” is messing you all up.

therefore translators are correct. stop fooling people mike.
they translated god (small g for not real God) bec they know the language more than you know.
they make this to give clear meaning to the greek bible.

Christ is God and not god.
just like his father. translators know this better than you mike., you do not even studied greek and now you want people to believe your imagination? LOL

why dont you check you favorite version NWT. they are confused! LOL
they said Christ is god but they translated john 20.28 as God and not god.

LOL

[Lightenup]

Good post jammin!

Those who can't confess that Jesus is also 'the God' certainly can't confess that Jesus is Jehovah, the Son, either. Christians all over the world confess these things!

Christians all over the world confess that Jesus is God, as in this verse:
Heb 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.

And Christians all over the world confess that Jesus is the YHWH that laid the foundation of the world as written here:
Heb 1:10 He also says to the Son, “In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundation of the earth and made the heavens with your hands. This verse is a quote of:
Psalm 102:
24So I said:

“Do not take me away, O my God, in the midst of my days;

your years go on through all generations.

25In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,

and the heavens are the work of your hands.

26They will perish, but you remain;

they will all wear out like a garment.

Like clothing you will change them

and they will be discarded.

27But you remain the same,

and your years will never end.

[jammin]

tnx sis kathi

tuly Christ is God just like his father.

Praise God!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 16 2012,22:01)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2012,11:32) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:37) who is the head of the woman? are they not both HUMAN? Man is the head of woman.  And yes, men and women are both human beings who share the same nature. Now answer mine: Who is the head of man?  Does man share the same nature as our head? thanks for the answer. therefore it does not mean that if the father is the head of Christ, he is not God/ nice answer boy

Ah, but Paul didn't say THE FATHER is the head of Christ, did he?

Instead, Paul said that “GOD” was the head of Christ.  So if the ONE we know as “GOD” is the head of Christ, that right there eliminates Jesus from BEING the “GOD” who is the head of him.  

In YOUR mind, you TWIST Paul's words up and IMAGINE that he's saying, “The FATHER PART OF God is the head of Christ.”  But that's not what Paul said, is it?

If “GOD” is the head of Christ, then who is “GOD”?  Is Jesus “GOD”?  If so, then is Paul saying that Jesus is the head of Jesus?  

jammin, let the scriptures teach YOU.  Don't try to teach THEM with all of your twists and turns, okay?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 16 2012,23:24)

tnx sis kathi tuly Christ is God just like his father. Praise God!

Well,

That's exactly what Kathi believes, jammin! She believes Christ is ONE OF OUR TWO ALMIGHTY GODS – “just like his Father”.

Are you now on board with her and the TWO Almighty God doctrine?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 16 2012,22:59)

Good post jammin!

Hmmmmmmmm……….

Once again, you are telling jammin “Good post!”

I'm still waiting for your reply in the other thread about WHY you thought his post was so good.  (I've been waiting for about 3 weeks, I think.  I've even bumped the question to you a second time.)

But anyway, why not tell me what was so good about his post here?  This is what I got out of it:

therefore translators are correct.  

Okay?  WHICH translators are correct?  And WHY?  Is there a Greek RULE that says the “G” must be capped in English when referring to Jesus?  Do all translations cap the “G” in 1:1c?  Do you suppose the NWT is the ONLY one that doesn't cap the “G” in 1:1?  

There are literally HUNDREDS of various translations that have been made throughout the years that DON'T say, “and the word was God”.  I could try to find the website again that I once saw, where a person had listed literally hundreds of them – NONE of which said, “the word was God”.

So Kathi, tell me what was so good about jammin's post. Also, do you believe the Word WAS the very God he was WITH in 1:1? YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2012,11:32)

Now answer mine: Who is the head of man, according to 1 Cor 11:3?  Does man share the same nature as our head?

Btw jammin,

I'm done talking to you in this thread until you answer my question above.  I answered yours.  Now answer mine.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 16 2012,22:59)

Those who can't confess that Jesus is also 'the God' certainly can't confess that Jesus is Jehovah, the Son, either. Christians all over the world confess these things!

How many “Christians” all over the world confess TWO, completely seperate Almighty Gods, Kathi?

Did you ask your pastor yet? Does HE believe in TWO Almghty Gods? How about the rest of your church? How about the Trinitarians that come to this site? Does Keith, Jack, jammin, Is 1:18, or any of the others confess TWO Almighty Gods?

Or is it just you?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 16 2012,11:22)

Have you ever seen a word that was flesh?

Yes Gene, I have seen many SPOKESMEN in my life – all of them flesh human beings.  Jesus is called “the Word of God” because he is God's spokesman.  Just like Aaron was called “the mouth of Moses” because he was Moses' spokesman.

Aaron wasn't a literal man-sized mouth, Gene.  Neither was Jesus a literal spoken word.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 16 2012,11:22)

Now who spoke to us “through” a son was it the son or God , who was doing the speaking (words) to us , was it the Son (Jesus) or God the Father.

Jesus was speaking what his God and our God wanted him to speak to us.  God spoke to the Israelites through many different prophets in the past, right?  Was it the literal voice of God coming out of the prophets' mouths?  Or is “God spoke through the prophets” just one way of saying “God let the prophets know what they should say”?

Gene, I've done my best to directly address your two points.  Now, address just one for me:

John 1:14 says the Word BECAME flesh, and had the glory of Jesus.  It doesn't say the Word came to be IN someone who was already flesh.

So, knowing that the Word BECAME flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of Jesus, who would you guess this particular Word (or “mouth”, or “spokesman”) was? (Hint: Who else would dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son except for Jesus?)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 14 2012,12:05)

NOW REFLECT ON THIS STATEMENT FROM PAUL! 1Corinthians 11: 3 But I would have you know, Paul definitely wanted to reveal something extraordinary with the above address to his listeners!

Yep. And he did. He revealed that man is the head of woman. Christ is the head of man. And God is the head of Christ.

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,11:18)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 16 2012,22:01) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2012,11:32) Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:37) who is the head of the woman? are they not both HUMAN? Man is the head of woman.  And yes, men and women are both human beings who share the same nature. Now answer mine: Who is the head of man?  Does man share the same nature as our head? thanks for the answer. therefore it does not mean that if the father is the head of Christ, he is not God/ nice answer boy Ah, but Paul didn't say THE FATHER is the head of Christ, did he? Instead, Paul said that “GOD” was the head of Christ.  So if the ONE we know as “GOD” is the head of Christ, that right there eliminates Jesus from BEING the “GOD” who is the head of him.   In YOUR mind, you TWIST Paul's words up and IMAGINE that he's saying, “The FATHER PART OF God is the head of Christ.”  But that's not what Paul said, is it? If “GOD” is the head of Christ, then who is “GOD”?  Is Jesus “GOD”?  If so, then is Paul saying that Jesus is the head of Jesus?   jammin, let the scriptures teach YOU.  Don't try to teach THEM with all of your twists and turns, okay?

did the verse said Christ is not God?

give me any single version boy LOL

if you cant give one, stop fooling people.
you cant fool those who know how to read.

poor mike.

your logic is non sense. the MAN is the head of the WOMAN, they are both human.

God is the head of Christ. they are both God.

it does not mean if God is the head of Christ, he is not God by nature. you cant read that in that verse. that is just your imagination.

let the bible speak
Philippians 2:6

New Living Translation (NLT)

6 Though he was God,[a]

sorry boy but that is a word for word in the bible. Christ is God by nature

[jammin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,11:43)

Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 16 2012,22:59) Those who can't confess that Jesus is also 'the God' certainly can't confess that Jesus is Jehovah, the Son, either. Christians all over the world confess these things! How many “Christians” all over the world confess TWO, completely seperate Almighty Gods, Kathi? Did you ask your pastor yet?  Does HE believe in TWO Almghty Gods?  How about the rest of your church?  How about the Trinitarians that come to this site?  Does Keith, Jack, jammin, Is 1:18, or any of the others confess TWO Almighty Gods? Or is it just you?

do you have two natures mike??? LOL

animal and human LOL

how many times do we need to tell you that they have one nature and that is nature God phil 2.6

the bible said that.
ONE GOD!
the father is God by nature
the son is God y nature.
one nature, GOD!

if you are God, you are almighty bec that is your nature as God.

if you are human, you are not almighty

[carmel]

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

Yep.  And he did.  He revealed that man is the head of woman.  Christ is the head of man.  And God is the head of Christ.

Mike,

FIRST OF ALL THIS IS THE SCRIPTURE NOT WHAT YOU ARE STATING HERE READ AND SEE WHAT A MESS YOU DID WITH IT:

But I would have you know, ( SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY )

that the head of

EVERY (PLURAL)

man is Christ; ( NO ARTICLE BEFORE CHRIST)

and the head of

THE ( WITH AN ARTICLE AND SINGULAR)WOMAN

is the man;

and the head of Christ is God.

NOW COMPARE AND ANALYZE THAT SCRIPTURE WITH YOURS AND

Tell me

What did Paul reveal???

What was extraordinary with THE MAN IS THE HEAD OF THE WOMAN??? , since as you said

HE WAS SPEAKING REGARDING HIERARCHY???

AND ALSO:

Quote

Absolutely. In earlier Biblical times, the man actually OWNED the woman as PROPERTY, Charles

SO THAT KIND OF HIERARCHY  WAS THE MOST COMMON THING FOR THE JEWS ,AND THEY WERE LIVING WITH IT SINCE ADAM???

WASN’T PAUL ,WHO WAS SELECTED BY GOD JESUS CHRIST TO ESTABLISH CHRISTIANITY,WAISTING TIME TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH WAS AS COMMON FOR THE JEWS AS BREAD AND WATER???

NOW I WILL REPEAT MY QUESTION AGAIN:

WHY THEN PAUL WAS TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY, WHILE  IN THE SAME TIME IT WASN’T AT ALL ESTRAORDINARY???

WHY PAUL USED THE HIERARCHY AND USED THE WORD HEAD, THE MOST COMMON THING FOR THE JEWS WHO ARE STILL LIVING THAT HIERARCHY SINCE ADAM, TO REFER TO SOMETHING EXTRAORDINARY???

WHAT IS THAT UNIQUE ELEMENT WHICH PAUL WAS REFERRING TO WHICH DEFINITELY WAS EXTRAORDINARY AND HE USED THE WORD HEAD AND THE HIERARCHY TO MAKE THEM AWARE THAT THEY HAVE TO CHANGE THAT HIERARCHY???

NOW MIKE I AM SURE THAT I AM CLEAR ENOUGH NOT FOR YOU ONLY BUT WHOEVER IS ON HEAVEN NET TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION!!!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[carmel]

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

[/quote]

Quote

How many “Christians” all over the world confess TWO, completely seperate Almighty Gods, Kathi?

Mike,

THE TRUE CHRISTIANS:

THOSE WHO BELIEVE THAT THE

FATHER IS ALMIGHTY GOD ONLY SPIRIT. MYSTERY,HIDDEN, UNKNOWN NOT TO BE SEEN FOR EVER AND EVER!!!

THE SON IS THE ONLY VISIBLE TRUE ALMIGHTY GOD TO BE SEEN SINCE HE GLORIFIED WITH A UNIQUE SPIRITUAL FLESH BODY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT FROM THE FATHER,BY ALL SPIRITUAL CREATURES, AND ALSO TO ALL CARNAL CREATURES WHOM HE IS READY TO REVEAL HIMSELF TO!!!

IT WILL REMAIN SO TILL THE FATHER SERVES THE SON AND MAKE CHRIST'S ENEMIES HIS FOOTSTOOL,AND THE FATHER WILL BE

ALL IN ALL

IN HIS SON'S KINGDOM

IN JESUS UNIQUE MYSTICAL BODY

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike……….I have addressed them, with the exception of this, in John 1:14 notice the text where it says, (“and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father”,) that was added to the original text by a “trinitarian translator: who is a Preexistences as you are>

Many scriptures are tweaked to make it appear like Jesus was A God or demigod or angel. Mike you have to remember Trinitarians are Preexistences to. But facts are Jesus was a ordinary 100% Pure human being who came into existence at his Prophesied berth on this earth, at his appointed time.

God who is “a” SPIRIT was (IN) the FLESH MAN JESUS, MIKE Just as he can also be in each of us also By that SAME Spirit (intellect) Given the MAN . JESUS. When are you going to see that God was truly “IN” Jesus and DOING His Work “through” the Human Flesh man Jesus?

The words of God were produced by the Spirit of God Mike and it never became Flesh not at anytime because a Spirt is not Flesh Mike but it can indwell flesh just as Jesus said “the Father (who is God) was “IN” him.” Just believe that Mike and you will say Like Thomas …”MY Lord “AND” My GOD. it was not a Little god mike but the real GOD the completer fulness was Present (IN) Jesus and even spoke directly to us at time through Jesus' Mouth, as i have shown here many times.

Mike God and HIS Words are one and the same thing, no matter whose Mouth they come from. Those Words “ARE SPIRIT” and they ARE LIFE, according to Jesus. WE are also washed or cleansed by the word of God it says.  Scripture also say GOD Gives   His Glory to no man but Jesus a Man gave his glory to us the same glory he has, God would never do that.  

Mike we are called alongside Jesus, not under his feet or to grovel at him. We are brothers and sister of Jesus we must overcome Just the way he did , what would he have to overcome if he preexisted his berth on this earth? It is completely out of Character of God to Morph anyone a pass him of or disguise him as a human being .

No Mike he made a second Adam and Brought him into existence Just as he did Adam a Pure HUMAN BEING from Human Beings. from the roots of Jesse and King David. No Morphing at all Mike Just another Human Being who he Perfected and Glorified and raised from the dead Just as he can with all of Us too. There is no difference between Jesus and Us Mike not one shred of difference with regard to his humanity and ours.

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Hi Gene,

We are already discussing this in detail in the “Beginning” thread, so I'll be very brief here:

Gene, do you accept the scriptural FACT that “the Word BECAME flesh”?  YES or NO?

We can move on from there, after I have your direct and honest answer.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 17 2012,22:04)

your logic is non sense. the MAN is the head of the WOMAN, they are both human. God is the head of Christ. they are both God.

MY logic is nonsense?  

Let's follow YOUR logic for a minute:

the MAN is the head of the WOMAN, they are both human.

God is the head of Christ. they are both God.

If we are to follow YOUR logic all the way through, then the following must also be true:

Christ is the head of man – they are both Christ.  And since Christ is God, then man is also God.

Is that what you believe, jammin?  That man is God?

Hmmmm……………….

[mikeboll64]

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 17 2012,22:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 18 2012,11:43) How many “Christians” all over the world confess TWO, completely seperate Almighty Gods, Kathi? the bible said that. ONE GOD!

Why are you telling this to ME, jammin?  

I already agree with you that there exists only ONE ALMIGHTY GOD.

You need to teach this lesson to Kathi – not to me.

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