JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 13 2012,16:55)

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LORD GOD said unto my human “Lord” (Jesus), sit on my right hand or side untill I (the LORD GOD) which is the inly GOd there is, make your enimies you foot stool.

Gene,

let's start:

Read Acts 2: 36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know most certainly, that God hath made BOTH LORD AND CHRIST, this same Jesus, whom you have crucified.

SO JESUS IS BOTH:

LORD AND CHRIST

I AM NOT GOING TO DEFINE THE WORD LORD FOR YOU SINCE YOU ARE CAPABLE TO DO IT, BUT PLEASE DEFINE IT,AND POST IT IN ORDER TO CONFIRM THE TRUTH REGARDING WHAT JESUS CHRIST IS NOW!!!

PEACE AND LOVE IN JESUS CHRIST

CHARLES

Carmel………..Notice was Jesus the God that made him Lord and Christ, NO he was not. There are many Lords but only one GOD, scriptures uses the terms Lord different way there is the LORD (YHWH) who is the ONLY TRUE GOD, and the is the Lord (ADON) who can be any human being you , me, or Jesus. When King David said the LORD (YHWH) said unto my LORD (Adon) sit on my right side ……> the word there used for Lord are two different word one could be anyone while the other could only be GOD himself.

Hope this helps.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

December 14, 2012 at 7:05 pm#324409

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2012,11:53)

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Charles

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

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It's proof that our one and only God is the “boss” of Jesus, like Jesus is the “boss” of us.

Mike,

So:

God is the boss of Jesus

Jesus is the boss of man

And man is the boss of the woman RIGHT???

NOW REFLECT ON THIS STATEMENT FROM PAUL!

1Corinthians 11: 3 But I would have you know,

Paul definitely wanted to reveal something extraordinary with the above address to his listeners!

So in view of this statement:

TELL ME WHAT IS THAT PARTICULAR ELEMENT WHICH PAUL WAS REFERRING TO, AND WHICH COMPELLED HIM TO USE THE WORD HEAD SYMBOLICALLY,IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF WHO BY RIGHT SHOULD LEAD,COMMAND, OR AS YOU SAID BE THE BOSS OF ANOTHER WITHOUT PREJUDICE???

Also do you really believe that the man is the boss of the woman ?

Or Jesus is the boss only of the man?

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 14, 2012 at 10:01 pm#324414

terraricca

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 15 2012,00:05)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 14 2012,11:53)

[/quote]
Charles

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

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It's proof that our one and only God is the “boss” of Jesus, like Jesus is the “boss” of us.

Mike,

So:

God is the boss of Jesus

Jesus is the boss of man

And man is the boss of the woman RIGHT???

NOW REFLECT ON THIS STATEMENT FROM PAUL!

1Corinthians 11: 3 But I would have you know,

Paul definitely wanted to reveal something extraordinary with the above address to his listeners!

So in view of this statement:

Also do you really believe that the man is the boss of the woman ?

Or Jesus is the boss only of the man?

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

CHARLES

you got it wrong to many years in religion does that to you and you start to take their lies for truth ,

I mean lies from religion ,

the scriptures them self do not support your view ,Paul just says it the way it his ,stop seeing things were their is none

December 15, 2012 at 1:32 am#324438

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:37)

who is the head of the woman? are they not both HUMAN?

Man is the head of woman. And yes, men and women are both human beings who share the same nature.

Now answer mine:

Who is the head of man? Does man share the same nature as our head?

December 15, 2012 at 1:41 am#324439

Blocked

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:36)

if i will follow your argument, all god should be GOD

therefore they are like the father

Yes jammin,

In the earliest Greek mss, all gods were called “THEOS” – in all capital letters.

Later, in the “miniscules”, the copyists switched from all caps to all lower case letters.

There exists no Greek mss where only certain letters were capped, while other letters were lower case.

But NO, it doesn't mean all gods are like the Father. You should learn a lesson from this, jammin. It really doesn't matter which letters the English translators decide to capitalize or not. The meaning is in the CONTEXT of the words – not in which letters are capped.

This sometimes HURTS people like you. It is because of the English translators who cap the “G” in John 1:1c, that YOU believe the Word was THE God. Had the English translators left all the letters either capped or lower case, then you would have to decide from the CONTEXT of the verse what John meant in part c.

Perhaps then, your MIND would think for itself, instead of being mislead by that capital “G”, and you would be able to see the OBVIOUS fact that our one God cannot possibly be WITH our one God.

But that capped “G” is messing you all up.

December 15, 2012 at 1:51 am#324440

Blocked

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 14 2012,12:05)

1. Also do you really believe that the man is the boss of the woman ?

2. Or Jesus is the boss only of the man?

1. Absolutely. In earlier Biblical times, the man actually OWNED the woman as PROPERTY, Charles. Read some of the other things Paul wrote about men versus woman, ie: Woman should not speak in church, but remain silent, and then LATER ask their husbands any questions they might have had – when the two of them are in private.

2. Paul is listing a HIERARCHY, Charles. Is God ONLY the boss of Jesus? Is man ONLY the boss of woman? (Or has he also been put over all the animals?)

It is a hierarchy, listing the “chain of command”. If I say, The General is the head of the Colonel, and the Colonel is the head of the Major, and the Major is the head of the Captain, am I saying that the General is ONLY the head of the Colonel, and NOT the head also of the Captain?

Of course not. I am listing a HIERARCHY, or “chain of command”.

So NO, Jesus is not ONLY the boss of the man. In Paul's chain of command, God is the highest, then Jesus, then man, then woman. It doesn't mean God is not higher than man, nor does it mean Jesus is not higher than woman.

December 15, 2012 at 6:58 am#324468

Participant

Quote

Absolutely. In earlier Biblical times, the man actually OWNED the woman as PROPERTY, Charles. Read some of the other things Paul wrote about men versus woman, ie: Woman should not speak in church, but remain silent, and then LATER ask their husbands any questions they might have had – when the two of them are in private.

Mike,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

Do you think I never read that???

Do you believe that I after being on heaven net FOR YEARS,I am that stupid to either ignore, or simply never read that chapter and not aware WHAT PAUL WAS EXPLAINING???

BUT TO MAKE YOU AWARE THAT I AM WELL AWARE ABOUT ALL THAT,

NOW REFLECT ON THIS STATEMENT FROM PAUL!

1Corinthians 11: 3 BUT I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW!!!,

WHY DID PAUL ADDRESSED HIS LISTENERS IN THAT MODE???

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SINCE YOU STATED,AND I ALSO AWARE AND AGREE,THAT :

Quote

In earlier Biblical times, the man actually OWNED the woman as PROPERTY, Charles.

PAUL NEEDED TO REMIND THEM ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IT WAS IN THEIR CULTURE, IN THEIR ACTUAL, AND EVERY DAY'S WAY OF LIFE???

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PAUL WHO WAS SELECTED BY GOD TO ESTABLISH CHRISTIANITY HE WASTED HIS MOST SPECIAL TIME TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH WAS AS COMMON AS BREAD AND WATER FOR THEM!!!

So in view of this statement:

TELL ME WHAT IS THAT PARTICULAR ELEMENT WHICH PAUL WAS REFERRING TO, AND WHICH COMPELLED HIM TO USE THE WORD HEAD SYMBOLICALLY,IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY HIMSELF WHY, AS YOU RIGHTLY SAID(Paul is listing a HIERARCHY,)

THEY LIVED IN THAT KIND OF HIERARCHY,

IN ORDER WHO BY RIGHT SHOULD LEAD,COMMAND, OR AS YOU SAID BE THE BOSS OF ANOTHER WITHOUT PREJUDICE???

Also TO DAY:

IS THE MAN THE BOSS OF THE WOMAN??? NO!!!

IS CHRIST THE BOSS OF THE MAN ONLY??? NO!!!

IS GOD THE BOSS OF JESUS??? NO!!!

CONSIDERRING THE FACT THAT JESUS THE ONLY TRUE VISIBLE GOD IS IN COMMAND OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSES, AND ALSO THE FATHER SAID TO HIS OWN CARNAL KIND OF GOD:

SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND TILL I MAKE YOUR EMEMIES ( NOT MINE???)YOUR FOOTSTOOL ( NOT MINE, IN ORDER TO SERVE YOU FROM NOW ON TILL THE LAST DAY, SINCE YOU SERVED ME AND SUPPLIED ME WITH A FLESH BODY???)

SO WAS PAUL TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH IN FACT WAS ALREADY OBSOLETE WHEN HE PRONOUNCED IT

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 15, 2012 at 2:19 pm#324477

terraricca

Participant

Quote (carmel @ Dec. 15 2012,11:58)

Quote

Mike,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH,

Do you think I never read that???

Do you believe that I after being on heaven net FOR YEARS,I am that stupid to either ignore, or simply never read that chapter and not aware WHAT PAUL WAS EXPLAINING???

BUT TO MAKE YOU AWARE THAT I AM WELL AWARE ABOUT ALL THAT,

NOW REFLECT ON THIS STATEMENT FROM PAUL!

1Corinthians 11: 3 BUT I WOULD HAVE YOU KNOW!!!,

WHY DID PAUL ADDRESSED HIS LISTENERS IN THAT MODE???

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT SINCE YOU STATED,AND I ALSO AWARE AND AGREE,THAT :

Quote

In earlier Biblical times, the man actually OWNED the woman as PROPERTY, Charles.

PAUL NEEDED TO REMIND THEM ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IT WAS IN THEIR CULTURE, IN THEIR ACTUAL, AND EVERY DAY'S WAY OF LIFE???

I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PAUL WHO WAS SELECTED BY GOD TO ESTABLISH CHRISTIANITY HE WASTED HIS MOST SPECIAL TIME TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH WAS AS COMMON AS BREAD AND WATER FOR THEM!!!

So in view of this statement:

THEY LIVED IN THAT KIND OF HIERARCHY,

IN ORDER WHO BY RIGHT SHOULD LEAD,COMMAND, OR AS YOU SAID BE THE BOSS OF ANOTHER WITHOUT PREJUDICE???

Also TO DAY:

IS THE MAN THE BOSS OF THE WOMAN??? NO!!!

IS CHRIST THE BOSS OF THE MAN ONLY??? NO!!!

IS GOD THE BOSS OF JESUS??? NO!!!

CONSIDERRING THE FACT THAT JESUS THE ONLY TRUE VISIBLE GOD IS IN COMMAND OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSES, AND ALSO THE FATHER SAID TO HIS OWN CARNAL KIND OF GOD:

SIT ON MY RIGHT HAND TILL I MAKE YOUR EMEMIES ( NOT MINE???)YOUR FOOTSTOOL ( NOT MINE, IN ORDER TO SERVE YOU FROM NOW ON TILL THE LAST DAY, SINCE YOU SERVED ME AND SUPPLIED ME WITH A FLESH BODY???)

SO WAS PAUL TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING WHICH IN FACT WAS ALREADY OBSOLETE WHEN HE PRONOUNCED IT

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

CHARLES

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I DON'T BELIEVE THAT PAUL WHO WAS SELECTED BY GOD TO ESTABLISH CHRISTIANITY

was that job not left for the false prophet

December 15, 2012 at 4:13 pm#324486

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 15 2012,11:41)

Quote (jammin @ Dec. 14 2012,02:36)

if i will follow your argument, all god should be GOD

therefore they are like the father

Yes jammin,

In the earliest Greek mss, all gods were called “THEOS” – in all capital letters.

Later, in the “miniscules”, the copyists switched from all caps to all lower case letters.

There exists no Greek mss where only certain letters were capped, while other letters were lower case.

But that capped “G” is messing you all up.

Jammin………John 1:1 … Is simply saying that God and his Words are one and the Same thing , That sentence has nothing to do with Jesus at all, common sense would tell you John would have written the Name Jesus there if he meant Jesus. don't let these Preexistences trip you up. Just as John 1:1 reads is right God and his words are one and the same thing, Just as you and your word are also. Just that simple. IMO

In the beginning it was God who Spoke the Words “let there be Light” it was no one else that said that in the beginning. Jesus was and is not God's Words evene if he quotes them to us , That still does not make him those words he quotes, God and His words are the same thing Just as you and yours are. Simple Don't get triped up by these wanta- be's . Jesus Said the words he was telling us “ARE” Spirit and he also said God was Spirit Now put that together God and His Words they are one and the same thing because all words are idenitified with Spirits.

Jesus said try the Spirits to see if they are of God, So what are we trying when we try the Spiriti are they not Words a person say and does that not identify that persons Spirit. Your spirit and your word are one and the same thing, Just as God words and His spirit are one and the same thing.

Don't get tripted up by these Trrinitarians and preexistence they are simply the blind leading the blind. IMO

peace and lvoe to you and yours…………………………..gene

December 16, 2012 at 8:00 am#324531

Participant

Gene wrote:

[/quote]

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John 1:1 reads is right God and his words are one and the same thing, Just as you and your word are also. Just that simple. IMO

Gene,

Am I understanding right,when you stated in the above that :

GOD AND HIS WORDS ARE ONE???

IF SO:

What is the difficulty that you accept that JESUS and the FATHER ARE ONE???

SINCE:

JESUS CONFIRMED THAT THE SPIRIT GIVES LIFE AND THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING???

If, according to the above statement from Jesus, the spirit gives life, it wasn't the SPIRIT OF THE FATHER WHICH WAS IN JESUS',obvious in HIS SOUL WHICH GAVE LIFE TO THE FLESH BODY OF JESUS, IN THE SAME WAY THAT THE SPIRIT IN YOUR SOUL GIVES LIFE TO YOUR FLESH BODY???

AREN'T YOU ALSO ONE ,ALTHOUGH YOU ARE BOTH SOUL AND FLESH???

ISN'T IT THE SOUL WHO DOES ALL GENERAL ACTIONS,AND MAKE USE OF YOUR FLESH BODY IN THE SAME WAY AS A PERSON MAKE USE OF A COSTUME,WHILE PARTICIPATING IN A COSTUME PARTY???

IF THE PERSON IS HIDDEN WHITHIN A COSTUME,THE ONLY WAY TO DISTIGUISH THAT PARTICULAR PERSON WOULD BE IN WHATEVER COSTUME HE IS MANIFESTING HIMSELF!!! NO???

WHEN WE SEE A CLOWN IN A CIRCUS WE SIMPLY CALL HIM A CLOWN

SO NO ONE WOULD BE IN THE POSSITION TO KNOW WHO ACTUALLY THAT PERSON IS!!! EXCEPT THOSE WHO KNOWS HIM. NO???

THEREFORE THE CLOWN,AND THAT PERSON ARE ONE NO???

WHATEVER THAT CLOWN SAY AND DO, HE WOULD ALWAYS BE ONE WITH THAT PERSON NO???

SO IF GOD USED HIS SON'S SPIRIT AND TRANSFORMED HIM THROUGH CREATION, AFTER HE CREATED ALL BY HIM,INTO A FLESH COSTUME AND THE FATHER IS HIDDEN IN THAT FLESH COSTUME, AREN'T THEY ALSO ONE???

ISN'T IT REALLY WHAT JESUS MEANT WHEN HE SAID THAT THE FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING???

ISN'T IT WHAT REALLY JESUS MEANT THAT THE HIDDEN SPIRIT OF THE FATHER GIVES LIFE TO THE FLESH COSTUME OF THE SON???

SO IF THE CLOWN COSTUME IS ONE WITH THAT PERSON HIDDEN IN IT,AND THAT PERSON HAPPENED TO BE YOU AND I DISCOVER THAT IT WAS YOU HIDDEN IN THAT COSTUME , AM I NOT RIGHT IF I CALL YOU

A CLOWN

WHENEVER I SEE YOU

OR DO YOU PREFER THAT I CALL YOU

GENE THE COWN

OR EVEN BETTER STILL:

GENE THE ONLY TRUE CLOWN IN RESPECT TO YOUR UNIQUE PERFECT WORK ON STAGE NO???

THERFORE

IN THE SAME WAY I CAN CALL JESUS GOD

OR JESUS THE GOD

OR EVEN BETTER STILL:

JESUS THE ONLY TRUE GOD IN RESPECT TO HIS UNIQUE PERFECT WORK ON EARTH NO???

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 16, 2012 at 1:55 pm#324540

barley

Participant

Quote (jammin @ Feb. 01 2012,14:46)

anyone from the anti christ group willing to answer this topic?

What no trinitarians replying to your post?

Don't you mean who and/or what is the word?

Scripture is God's word.

God is the word

Jesus Christ is the word.

To the extent we love God by living according to God's word, we are the word.

barley

December 16, 2012 at 5:02 pm#324550

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 15 2012,09:13)

common sense would tell you John would have written the Name Jesus there if he meant Jesus.

Gene,

Did John write “Jesus” in Rev 19:13? NO. That shoots your point down, so there's really no need for you to ever make this point again, is there?

In fact, MANY scriptures, in the OT and the NT speak ABOUT Jesus, without ever mentioning the name “Jesus”.

Find a new argument, because this one's just not proving anything for you.

Also, consider this fact from John 1:14……….WHOEVER is the Word in 1:1 is the same person who became flesh and dwelled on earth with the glory of JESUS!.

Gene, who ELSE ever dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?

See? John really DID tell us the Word was Jesus. But you have to read the whole chapter (WITHOUT adding your own words into it) to see it.

December 16, 2012 at 5:04 pm#324551

Blocked

Charles,

I didn't see anything in your latest post that I didn't already address in the previous one.

December 16, 2012 at 5:46 pm#324558

Participant

mikeboll64,Dec. wrote:

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I didn't see anything in your latest post that I didn't already address in the previous one.

Mike,

I'm afraid you didn't quite understand my question!

Read it again and reflect what I was talking about!

Peace and love in Jesus

Charles

December 16, 2012 at 6:22 pm#324563

Participant

Mike …..All this dancing around the true issue. Answer me this one question if you can.

Have you ever seen a word that was flesh?, if you cant answer that simple question then there is no point even discussing this matter with you.

Point two, if God the Father was (in) Jesus as he said he was then who was speaking (through) him. What does this mean to you, but in these last days has (spoken) to us (through) a son. Now who spoke to us “through” a son was it the son or God , who was doing the speaking (words) to us , was it the Son (Jesus) or God the Father.

Can you simply answer these simple questions plainly and simply without beating around the bush trying to invent all kinds of different meanings to these simple questions?

Peace and love to you and yours………………….gene

December 16, 2012 at 7:05 pm#324565

Participant

Carmel………Jesus gave up his will to the Fathers will so in that sense they are one , just as if you were to give up your will to God the Fathers will you would be one also. When Jesus said him and the. Father were one he did not mean one and that same person, but one in agreement . If Jesus was the same being as the Father then how could he be his Son also. That my friend is an impossibility .

This may help you Carmel, it is a major problem in religion, and that is understanding what a Spirit is, a spirit is not a person it is what is IN a person. Spirits come in types and kinds, like clean and unclean and these spirit effect our thinking and they can be removed or added to us, none of that makes them living souls they simply effect the souls they are in, when we die these spirit leave our bodies ( souls ) and our souls corrupt in the graves and we cease to exit any longer, and unless God regenerates a new body (soul) and adds spirit back into them we are gone for ever.

Jesus is not a spirit he is a living soul with spirit in him just as we are and those spirits are what influences him just as the spirits in us influence us also. Jesus now has the seven spirit of God in him but that does not make him the spirits that are in him. Jesus is a man God is not a man scripture say.

Understanding what spirit is is a Hugh problem with religion spirits come in all kinds and types and effect us all, but none of that makes a soul because to be a soul,requires a Separate body of its own. As it says unto each he gives it a body of its own. What makes us unique is not the spirits in us because that can always be changed, but what makes us unique living souls with personalities given to us by God. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

December 16, 2012 at 10:07 pm#324568