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Mankind has a sin problem.
It needed a unique solution besides letting our souls die.
God loved us, and didn’t want us to die.
So the price for sin was paid in full for us.
Death of the soul is the wages.
Jesus Christ is the Lamb of God and died in our place.
The carnal mind will not understand.
But it is logical in that, if you are fined by a worldly institution, someone else can pay the fine and you will be free from its burden.
Hi Berean,
Holy means –set apart by our only one true God our Heavenly Father
Before Jesus of Nazareth, a son of David, was even born, long time before that, even before the world began, God set him apart to be the one man where by his righteousness unto obedience we would be set free.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.
4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
Berean, this man brings forth judgment THROUGH the Spirit that is upon him and he likewise does not fail because the Spirit is upon him.
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
First of all Jesus is NOT the Creator he is of the Creation, he is of the people to whom God had given a spirit to walk therein by.
Second, Paul gives you the image of the Son in Romans 8, those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God and the Spirit bears witness to the human spirit that you are a child of God. The Spirit that came to live in Jesus bore witness to his spirit that he was a Son of God. He was to be a firstborn of many. Jesus is the man of prophecy to whom God called to righteousness where Paul also teaches that the fruit of the Spirit is in all righteousness. God held his hand and kept him so that he could fulfill the covenant, he was being fully led by the Spirit, a Son of God.
We are also given that God had promised that a son of David God would become a Father to him and give him an eternal throne and likewise the prophecy where David saw this son resurrected from the dead to then sit upon his throne. Acts speaks to Jesus being the promised son of David raised from the dead, given the Promised Spirit, exalted to God’s right hand and would according to the flesh sit on David’s throne.
YHVH is the name of our Creator and this Creator gave His glory to one man elected from among the people to whom our Creator had given them a spirit to walk therein. Our Creator gave His Spirit to this man, our Creator called this man to Righteousness where he would be a light. You turn and make this man into the Creator, a HUGE FALSEHOOD against clear given scripture where your attempted proof is to force your interpretation of the word “dia” rendering it as “by means of” instead of “by reason of”. YHVH our Heavenly Father created all things by Himself and He did it by reason of and for the man chosen from among his brethren to whom He would give His glory to. Your proof brings complete contradiction and is founded upon one bad interpretation applied to another bad interpretation as you completely ignore that this glory for this man was planned before the world began.
“therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God”
The conceived Jesus in Mary’s womb was most certainly Holy -set apart, he was elected even before the world began to be the promised Messiah and be the promised Son of God.
Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Berean, how long are you going to deny that Jesus was God’s word made true in the flesh? Jesus is the man to whom the Spirit came to dwell in him being called to righteousness/born of God to fulfill all righteousness. How long are you going to deny the image of the Son that Paul directly gives us?
The baby Jesus was the promised Messiah, he was going to be the anointed one, he was going to be great and he was going to become the prophesied Son of God of the seed of David.
Leading up to God’s word of prophecy being made true in the flesh of Jesus we know that as a child Jesus grew with the grace of God upon him and was being filled with God’s wisdom. What he was not from the time of his conception was the image of the likes of some pagan god, some kind of hybrid godman, whom you believe was perfect. NO, God perfected him, he was perfected as Paul told us he was, he was perfected learning obedience by what he suffered on the cross. By ONE MAN’S righteousness, the obedience of ONE MAN has mankind become justified. Righteousness came down from heaven via the Spirit of God that then was begotten in Jesus at the river Jordan.
Hi DT,
YOU:
In reference to post #946652
Did you put the Jesus on the cross; if so, what did you do that put him there?
ME: Why does your response not speak to what we were directly debating about?
If the prophesy of Isaiah 53 is the words of the apostles giving the report of Jesus as savior to the people then the “our” and “we” most assuredly include the people to whom the apostles are preaching to. Do you see how it makes perfect sense?
Jodi…….We have born witness of the truth, if they had the true “spirit of the truth”, abiding in them they would acknowledge it, and be glad, but our words are a witness against them , that they are not of the truth.
peace and love to you and yours Jodi………..gene
You: Mankind has a sin problem.
Me: Explain. I would assert it’s more of an obedience problem.You: It needed a unique solution besides letting our souls die.
Me: So repenting, turning from wickedness, and God forgetting the sin isn’t good enough? What other possible “solution” could be required?You: God loved us, and didn’t want us to die.
Me: Of course God loves HIS creation and desires no man die. HE tells us this in Ezk 18:32.You: So the price for death was paid in full for us.
Me: Since sin equals death, this price “paid in full” was for the sins of man. So an innocent man took on the wickedness of the world and was the substitution in death for the guilty!?!??? I’ve never found where God said the innocent can take on the responsibility of the wicked; what I did find is God detests the acquittal of the guilty and condemnation of the innocent. Please explain to me how the Jesus took on the guilt of another and it was acceptable to God when HE said HE detests the condemnation of the innocent?(From post #946686)
Did you put the Jesus on the cross; if so, what did you do that put him there?
ME: Why does your response not speak to what we were directly debating about?
If the prophesy of Isaiah 53 is the words of the apostles giving the report of Jesus as savior to the people then the “our” and “we” most assuredly include the people to whom the apostles are preaching to. Do you see how it makes perfect sense?
You’re assumption is the apostles are the one’s speaking; is there any evidence supporting this? If the apostles are the ones speaking and includes those hearing them speak, then it was they who the servant “suffered and died” for (this is applying the pronouns as they are written with your assumptions of who’s who); if this isn’t a correct understanding, who do each of the pronouns represent?
Additionally, does this text apply to those who read it in the future? If so, then wouldn’t they also be responsible for the death of this servant (presumed the Jesus); which then comes full circle to my question, Did you put the Jesus on the cross and how?
Hi Proclaimer,
YOU:
Mankind has a sin problem.
It needed a unique solution besides letting our souls die.
ME:
Before we read the word of God from Paul let us not forget prophecy from Isaiah of a son of David who God would give his Spirit to and call to righteousness to fulfill the covenant and another prophecy that the giving of the Spirit was an Anointing where then this anointed one was then sent to fulfill God’s will.
Do you believe God’s prophecy was fulfilled in the flesh of Jesus? Did God give His Spirit to dwell in him and call him to righteousness? Just seems that this prophecy is completely ignored by you and others and you don’t apply it to other passages but instead give interpretations to passages that contradict this clear given truth which aligns with the word of God from Paul and elsewhere.
Additional question, you really think that a man of flesh having God’s Spirit come to dwell in him without measure is not the same exact thing as being born of the Spirit, being born of God? Recall 1 John 3 where we are given the manifestation of the Son is also how God’s other children are manifested where those who are born of God are not able to sin as His seed remains in you. What is that seed if it is not the Spirit whose fruit is in all righteousness? This aligns as well perfectly with Isaiah 42 and God’s word from Paul. The prophecy was God would call him to righteousness, hold his hand and KEEP him to fulfill the covenant. As long as the Seed, God’s Spirit, remains in him he is kept from sin and able to fulfill the covenant.
Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man’s offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life IN Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
The Spirit of life was IN Christ and the Spirit is life because of righteousness. Well that makes sense since the Anointed One Jesus was anointed of the Spirit, he had the Spirit of life dwelling in him because through the Spirit he was CALLLED to righteousness.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
When Jesus had God’s Spirit descend upon him and was sent out into the world to do all of God’s will that was not Jesus being led by the Spirit and thus a Son?
When Jesus spoke God’s words and did God’s works that was not the Spirit bearing witness to Jesus’s spirit that he indeed was a Son?
One man’s obedience by his righteousness through God’s Spirit that came to dwell in him sin was condemned in the flesh. Through the Spirit dwelling IN A MAN sin in the flesh was given the death sentence. Jesus could be tempted just as all men are tempted, tempted to walk after/obey our weak mortal flesh, but the Spirit in Jesus of Nazareth was a more powerful influence where he was able to overcome, he was able to not serve his weak mortal flesh and instead serve God without fail.
Jesus had to be a man to whom God called to righteousness or else there is no proof that God could then also call us to righteousness. We are justified in him because we sinned because we did not have God’s Spirit in us as Jesus was given, which proved it’s power over sin. We are justified in him because what God can accomplish in one man he can accomplish in all men. As we bore the image of the disobedient man we will bare the image of the righteous one. There is no Jesus needed to be a hybrid one of a kind being, he needed to become a righteous man able to walk in all of God’s ways and thus worthy of eternal life.
By one man’s disobedience we were all given weak mortal flesh that we must serve in order to survive bound in chains in the fear of death. Jesus broke those chains as his weak mortal flesh with the fear of death had no power over the Spirit in him where he trusted in God obeying him unto his death, he most certain believed in the glory that God had prepared for him since before the world began and he took that to the cross. As Paul tells us, he was perfected through suffering on the cross, he succeeded in the ultimate test of faith.
The disobedient man was carnally minded and it brought forth sin and the punishment of weak mortal flesh able to die and this was then subjected to all of mankind.
The obedient man was spiritually minded for the Spirit of God came to dwell in him without measure and it brought forth righteousness unto eternal life and this gift is promised to all of mankind, righteousness through the Spirit unto eternal life. The gift is given to those who have faith and hope that Jesus is truly a firstborn of many brethren, a Son who is led by God’s Spirit walking in all of God’s ways.
Hi Proclaimer,
Here is a very condensed post for you
YOU:
Mankind has a sin problem.
It needed a unique solution besides letting our souls die.
ME:
Yes, mankind has a sin problem which is because only God is good and without His Spirit dwelling in us we can bare no fruit of righteousness.
The solution, God called a man to righteousness giving him His Spirit without measure and by this man’s righteousness having been perfected being obedient going to the cross, mankind is justified for the Spirit in him was proof that a man can obey all of God’s commands.
Our faith and hope is that Jesus is truly a firstborn of many brethren, a Son who is led by God’s Spirit through it dwelling within and able to walk in all of God’s ways. Righteousness unto eternal life.
@ Jodi
The solution, God called a man…
Me
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth👉 in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world 👉through him might be saved.And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
[24] Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
[25] These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
[26] At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that👉 I came out from God.👈
[28]👉 I came forth from the Father,👈and
👉am come into the world: 👈
again,
👉I leave the world, and go to the Father.
[29] His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
[30] Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.
[31] Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?
[32] Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.
[33] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.Hi Berean and All,
The perfect way to explain what being begotten by God or born of God means is to say God’s Spirit has descended from heaven and has come to dwell within you!
Hi Berean,
Yes Jesus, THE SON OF MAN, as he declared, came forth from the Father, to which Jesus also phrased as coming down from heaven.
WHO does Jesus say came down from heaven in John 3, he said THE SON OF MAN!
Jesus also said in John 3,
“Except a MAN be BORN OF water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
John says, “34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
Matthew 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, THIS IS my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus of Nazareth was born of water and of the Spirit, he was born of the Spirit without measure, which made him an only begotten Son.
Jesus of Nazareth was the prophesied son of David to whom God had promised He would become a Father to.
This Jesus was raised from the dead and received the Promised Spirit which was the fulfillment of “this day I have begotten thee” and this resurrected Jesus born of the Spirit was exalted into God’s kingdom appointed to sit at God’s right hand.
Jesus, the promised son of David, is a man who was born of the Spirit and entered into the kingdom of God! This Son of Man is returning in our Father’s glory.
Jesus is our forerunner, he is a firstborn of many, where we will follow him as he declared, in the New Birth when he sits on the throne of his glory. For his baptism is our baptism and we drink of the cup that he drinks of, the cup of the One Spirit. And those who are led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.
Did you or did you not put the Jesus on the cross? Is this question to difficult?
Why do you believe it’s the apostles speaking in Isaiah 53?
Can you explain why the writer of Matthew in 2:15 takes Hosea 11:1 out of context, calling it a “fulfillment” of the prophet, by applying it to the Jesus when the Hosea passage speaks of God calling the nation of Israel out of Egypt and then refers to them as HIS son?
Please explain Matt 3:3 where John is “quoting” Isaiah “The voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.’” and claiming it’s a reference to the Jesus; after reading Isaiah 40:3 it’s speaking of God and not the Jesus.
Then you must help me understand Matt 4:12-16, its relation to Isa 9:1-2, and how the Jesus fulfilled the words of Isaiah by going to Capernaum.
What about Matt 5:43 where the Jesus says “you shall love your neighbor, and hate your enemy”; find me the passage where God said to “hate your enemy.”
How can this NT be “the word of God” when it’s filled with lies? How can this NT be “the word of God” when no one agrees with what it says? Why doesn’t anyone have the same understanding IF it’s the “word of God”?
What’s “baffling” is how people ignore these types of discrepancies; turning a blind eye to them. So sad…
@ Jodi
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.(John 1:29)
How can one man, even if he is filled with the Holy Spirit, take away 👉THE SIN OF THE WORLD ???
Hey there DT,
YOU:
Did you or did you not put the Jesus on the cross? Is this question to difficult?
Why do you believe it’s the apostles speaking in Isaiah 53?
ME: Neither of your questions are difficult at all, I just find them to be stupid questions because it does seem like you should already know my answers.
We are all sinners, but God has promised to give us a new heart and put His Spirit in us and cause us to walk in all of His ways.
I don’t think that I have made it more clear that I believe in the books of the NT where within the apostles are clearly identified as those who reported to others of he who was wounded for our transgressions. John himself speaks to Isaiah 53 directly.
John 12:36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them. 37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Isaiah said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Isaiah, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.
People who were a witness to Jesus directly didn’t all believe in him and those who the apostles preached to about him also did not all believe in him.
Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.
11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge my righteous servant shall justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Who is YHVH’s righteous servant of Isaiah 53 if he does not represent the man of Isaiah 42 who God gave His Spirit to and called to righteousness to be for a light?…or the man of Isaiah 11 who YHVH gives His Spirit of knowledge to, along with wisdom, understanding, council and might and where therein “Righteousness will be his belt and faithfulness the sash around his waist“?
DT, who do you think is God’s “righteous servant” and who represents the “our” in Isaiah 53?
Hi Berean,
YOU:
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.(John 1:29)
How can one man, even if he is filled with the Holy Spirit, take away 👉THE SIN OF THE WORLD ???
ME: I would suggest reading back through some of my latest posts and the scriptures I provided, but allowing me to recap.
Read Romans 5!
One man brought sin and death and another man brought forth righteousness to eternal life.
One man can take away the sins of the world because that is EXACTLY God’s WORD!
The sins of the world were taken away/our redemption, CAME THROUGH THE OBEDIENCE OF ONE MAN where that obedience to our Heavenly Father occurred through our Father giving Jesus His Spirit without measure, which was prophecy fulfilled of a man being called to righteousness, for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, RIGHTEOUSNESS and truth.
“He whom God had sent speaks the word of God for God had given the Spirit unto him without measure. The Father loveth the Son and have given all things into his hands”. A man must be born of the Spirit, but the Spirit descending upon the man Jesus for it to live in him, is NOT Jesus being born of the Spirit?
Jesus was sent out into the world upon having received the Spirit to abode in him, this is the same thing as being begotten by God, begotten of God’s Spirit and having it remain in him. God then sent this only begotten Son into the world where he would be persecuted and die for our sins.
The “he” who God sent was he who was born of the Spirit, which is God’s Word made true in the flesh and is God’s Word that He had declared before the world even began. Jesus of Nazareth is the firstborn of The Word!
Berean, God’s word is that He would call one man from among the people and give him His glory a glory that was ONLY for this one man. That glory was the full measure of God’s Spirit, that glory was Jesus becoming and only begotten Son filled with grace and truth where the people beheld that glory.
That glory was “God in him doing the works” and you want to tell me God being in him through His Spirit is not Jesus having been born of God?
No other mortal man was born of the Spirit without measure and this man was raised from the dead where he “received the Promised Spirit”/ “on this day have I begotten thee” where he then was exalted entering into God’s kingdom to sit at God’s Right Hand. Just as Jesus said, a man must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God’s kingdom.
Unfortunately, at this time, I am unable to read your mind which is why I asked if you did or did not put the Jesus on the cross? It requires a simple, yes I did or no I didn’t. If you would like to offer your explanation to why you did or did not, that’s up to you.
PS The Ezek passage you quote, to whom was that given, the Jews or the world?
DT,
Are you telling me that you have not comprehended that I believe Jesus is the righteous servant of Isaiah 53 who was wounded for my transgressions? I just find that extremely hard to believe, hence why I find your question stupid. And who are you to ask a person to confess their sins to?
According to Isaiah 53, whoever you believe the righteous servant represents, God in fact had this servant pour his soul unto death to make intercession for transgressors.
YOU: The Ezek passage you quote, to whom was that given, the Jews or the world?
ME: It was given to Israel, not just the Jews of the tribe of Judah.
As you should know by now I believe in the NT and the promise given to Israel of receiving God’s Spirit is also a promise for Gentiles, which makes sense because the OT tells us that all nations will be blessed, that the Messiah brings blessings and peace to all nations, that the whole earth will be filled with the glory of God and that God made humans to live in His image, not just Israel. Existing in his image is through having His Spirit living in you, which was his Word before the world even began.
You: Are you telling me that you have not comprehended that I believe Jesus is the righteous servant of Isaiah 53 who was wounded for my transgressions?
Me: So are you saying you put the Jesus on the cross?
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