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Hi DT,
YOU: Where did God say HE was going to become a father unto the seed of David? What verse are you citing?
ME: Below speaks to the Messiah, he is begotten by God becoming a Son, he is a king inheriting the earth for his possession and he destroys the wicked. Blessed are them who trust in the Son.
Psalms 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. 4 The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6 For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. 2: 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. 5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter’s vessel. 10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. 11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. 12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Below speaks to the Messiah, a child is born, a son is given, sitting on David’s throne, the increase of his government and peace there will be no end,
Isaiah 9: 2 The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. 3 Thou hast multiplied the nation, and not increased the joy: they joy before thee according to the joy in harvest, and as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. 4 For thou hast broken the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, as in the day of Midian. 5 For every battle of the warrior is with confused noise, and garments rolled in blood; but this shall be with burning and fuel of fire. 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty “El” (god-like one, mighty one/mighty men, men of rank, mighty heroes), The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
Apply those passages to,
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
Now let’s look at the passage I often speak to, where first you have a son of David and God promises to make him into His Son. This promise given to David did not only concern Solomon but the Messiah to an even fuller extent.
1 Chronicles 17: 11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom forever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
When we apply OT passages with OT passages we can clearly see that I Chronicles 17 does speak to the promised Messiah.
I have more to say about this in a future post.
Hi Jodi,
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Who dwelt among us?
Jesus Christ!Anyway, I need to rest.
God bless you and take care.
@ Jodi
Below speaks to the Messiah, he is begotten by God becoming a Son, he is a king inheriting the earth for his possession and he destroys the wicked. Blessed are them who trust in the Son.
Me
The truth is that Jesus was already THE SON OF GOD AND HE WAS GOD 👉BUT TO SAVE HUMANITY “HE WAS MADE FLESH” AND THUS HE BECAME BY HIS BIRTH, LIFE, DEATH AND RESURRECTION👉 THE SON OF GOD BUT IN👉 A NEW SENSE (SINCE HE LEAD THE FIGHT AGAINST SATAN AND HIS WORKS BEING IN THE FLESH BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT)
👇
THE 3 STEPS FOR THE SON OF GOD👇
I) being👉 in the form of God👈,👉thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
B) BUT 👉made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and👉 was made in the likeness of men:👈
C) And being found in fashion as a man,
👉 he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death,👉 even the death of the cross.AMEN!
@Gene,
You: but you disagree with him being the true “Messiah” something I know he was and is.
Me: How do you “know” Jesus is? What facts can you give? What proofs are available to support your “belief”? Since the Messiah was first spoken of in the Tanakh one must begin looking here and anything spoken of the Messiah in the Tanakh MUST have been accomplished by Jesus.
Please go back to post 946290, is the Messiah to accomplish all these or not and did Jesus fulfilled any of the “requirements” given by God for the Messiah? Can Jesus be the Messiah if he missed fulfilling ONE of these “requirements”?
The biggest conflict between the Jewish bible and the Christian bible is the restoration of Israel and christianity cannot resolve it because they reject the Jewish people. What does it mean when you claim to “support Israel”? You have nothing nice to say about the people, so it’s not the people you support; the only thing left is the land or is it the name “Israel” you “support”?
DT…….where does it say that the “Messiah” would do all his work at his “FIRST” APPEARANCE, that is you adding to the text, it simply say that he will perform those things , and he will at his return, which is soon to come. You’re putting your own times of complete accomplishments, when scripture does not .
Jesus’ first appearance as the Messiah of God, was clearly known by the Jewish leaders of his day, they understood that prophesy, written in the book of DANIEL , which tells of when he would be born , Dan 9:25_26, Read also Matt 2 :1-12, Luke 1:28-32They had no problem of knowing the time of the Messiah, why do you?
peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene
@DT
The TRUE Israël IS those “they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.(Rev.14:12)
Rom.9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Rom.2:28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.John 1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Hi Danny and All,
YOU:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Who dwelt among us?
Jesus Christ!ME:
Yes indeed, Jesus Christ dwelt among the people, having been sent by God out into the world upon the Spirit of God having come to abode in him.
Verse 14 of John speaks exactly to my position.
The Word is the WORD of God according to Isaiah made true in the flesh of Jesus at the river Jordan. The Word is the Promised Spirit of YHVH coming to dwell in Jesus, YHVH dwelling in him, such is to be begotten of YHVH.
a few things,
The Word, as in YHVH’s Spirit dwelling in the promised Messiah, was a calling to righteousness where he would be for a LIGHT, John 1 also speaks to this very LIGHT and it was unto a glory ONLY for him.
He had been FILLED with, the Spirit of Wisdom, of Understanding, of Council and Might, of Knowledge and Fear of YHVH, and being FULL of such grace and truth he was sent by YHVH to preach the TRUTH.
John 1:14 And the Word (the promised Spirit of YHVH aboding in the promised Messiah) was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jesus being begotten of the Spirit of YHVH, having YHVH in him and him being sent to preach the Truth was a beginning, the beginning of YHVH’s Word made true in the flesh.
The Word that Jesus preached was the PROMISED SPIRIT of YHVH, a promise to the people that they would be born of the Spirit also, a promise to receive the baptism he received and drink of the cup that he drinks of, the cup of the One Spirit. Jesus would be a firstborn of many brethren. Where the Spirit is there is life, eternal life, which was YHVH’s PROMISE before the world began.
What does John 1 say leading up to verse 14 that speaks to this,
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Jesus made it clear that he was a Son of Man and what did he say, “that a man must be born of water and of the Spirit to enter into God’s kingdom.” We are also told that the Son of Man was exalted to God’s right and that it is the Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory, where when he returns we have been PROMISED to be made as he is, which is to have the Spirit of YHVH in us to the cause that we too will be able to walk in all of YHVH’s ways, having righteousness which by righteousness there is eternal life.
THIS JESUS and HIS GLORY, bringing forth salvation to make many Sons of God giving the Promised Spirit unto eternal life, was all of God from the beginning, without THIS JESUS, this firstborn of many brethren, nothing that YVHV had made would have been made.
Hi Berean,
Thanks for proving my point to Danny, where you COMPLETELY IGNORE clear scriptures and then go about interpreting other passages WITHOUT them!
Let’s first acknowledge that you completely ignore the context given, the fact that Paul is telling folks that they need to be like minded with “Christ”. You ignore the passages where Jesus said that he is not of the world as they are not of the world and that as God sent him they are sent. Jesus was anointed of the Spirit (without measure) and was sent out into the world, not being of the world but being from heaven, directly from God and they received the Spirit (by measure, but together they equated to the body of Christ) and they were also sent out into the world also not being of the world but being of heaven, directly from God. By such they too could find themselves in the form of God and thus why they needed to be like minded with Christ Jesus.
The “anointed Jesus”, the Son of Man who was anointed of the Spirit, was he who was in the form of God.
Let’s look at clear scripture that tells us that the verse is speaking of the “anointed Jesus” and not a pre-existing god.
- The verse itself directly tells us that it is speaking of the “anointed Jesus”. You ignore the clear scripture of WHEN it says he was anointed and when he it says he was sent.
- John 3 tells us that Jesus received YHVH’s Spirit WITHOUT MEASURE, this would certainly equate him to being in the form of YHVH.
- “John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.” This clearly equates to the “anointed Jesus” being in the form of God. Jesus not only had YHVH in him without measure, but also upon him having been begotten of YHVH, he was SENT to do YHVH’s works, he was sent to speak YHVH’s words, all in YHVH’s name.
Jesus finding himself in the form of God could see himself equal to God, but he was a servant of God only doing God’s will, forsaking at all times his own and he made it clear that he was doing nothing of himself, he gave all credit to the Father. Those being sent ALSO needed to be of this mind.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.Berean, how is it that “Christ Jesus” “was made in the likeness of men” and then found himself “in fashion as a man” and humbled himself”? When God made him “who knew no sin to be sin for us” and when he was “numbered with transgressors”, that is how! Jesus was not deserving of death, but he humbled himself and went to the cross unto his death.
Guess what, those also being sent out needed to be like minded in this as well, having faith in YHVH and His WORD declared from the beginning, and willing to be persecuted unto death. “Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.”
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;WHO was exalted to God’s right hand? The Son of Man Jesus of Nazareth that is who. “Being exalted” is not returning, it is being lifted up to where you were not before. Such was YHVH’s word before the world even began. God’s promise, from the beginning fulfilled, that which He had given to David concerning David’s seed, that He would settle a seed of David into His House and His Kingdom forever and give him an eternal throne exalting him to having possession over all the earth.
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
It’s all to the glory of God the Father!!
It’s all to the glory of YHVH’s Spirit that came to abode in Jesus. The anointed of the Spirit Jesus is our lord, our master according to the glory of the Father, YHVH’s Spirit in Jesus.
This is obvious when you read Isaiah 11. Your master, your judge Berean, is a man who judges righteously not by his own eyes and ears but through the Spirit of righteousness that is upon him. That righteousness, him being led in all ways by the Spirit, makes him a Son.
Berean, you deny the Spirit of YHVH and thus you deny the Son and the Father. You cannot even acknowledge that scripture directly tells you that a man was called to righteousness to fulfill God’s covenant to be for a light to all people. You turn the glory of the Father, the glory in Jesus into a LIE. All you do is make Jesus into the likes of a pagan god.
Stop getting excited with your big speeches that prove nothing.
You can NEVER CONTRARY THAT JESUS, THE SON OF GOD, WAS WITH THE FATHER IN THE BEGINNING AND THAT HE WAS GOD, AND THAT HE WAS MADE FLESH.
IT’S AS SIMPLE AS THAT.@Gene,
You: where does it say that the “Messiah” would do all his work at his “FIRST” APPEARANCE
Me: When did God say the Messiah was to come twice? Where in the Tanakh did God say the Messiah was to show up, not do anything HE said, but will the second time? To claim I’m “adding to the text” is false; I’m adding nothing to anything, but reading what is there; seems it’s christianity who has “added” to the Jewish bible to make the Christian bible work.
What’s humorous is how christianity rejects the Jewish understanding of THEIR scripture; this was given to THEM by God and christianity has the audacity to tell them they don’t have a clue and their understanding is false?!?!? That’s some serious arrogance! Especially when christianity still argues the meaning of the Christian bible (NT).
Where does the Tanakh say one is to “believe” in the Messiah for salvation; God says salvation is found in HIM? Is Jesus going to gather the Jewish nation back to their land and why isn’t this mentioned anywhere in the Christian bible (NT); yet God speaks of this restoration everywhere thru most of the prophets. When Jesus “returns” is he bringing peace or judgment and destruction? Explain the battle in Zech 12 where God destroys all the nations that came against Jerusalem and in Zech 14 those who survived this battle will now go to Jerusalem to worship God every year and celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. Where does the Jesus messiah factor in all this?
It’s no wonder the modern church all but ignores the writing of God’s prophets; if people knew what the prophets wrote and the lies the church peddles, there would be nothing left of the church today.
In a previous post you quoted the verse about Jesus being the moderator between God and man, think on this for a moment; we are all God creation, thus HIS children, when your children want to speak to you do they go thru another or do they speak to you directly? Explain why God, our Father, would require you to have a “representative” that comes to HIM on your behalf when you don’t require it of your children?
DT……So what do you do with where it says in Daniel that the Messiah would be cut off in the midst of the week? Please explain that scripture to us. AND WHAT ABOUT THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY God would not leave his soul in hell to see corruption ? How do you get around those scriptures, not to mention what Isaiah said about God having put on him the sins of us all.
I gave you those scriptures, but you just simply ignore them, as if they are not even written in our scriptures, it’s kinda like you simply write your own Bible leaving out the things that don’t agree with your understanding.
No where does scriptures say the Nation of Israel suffered for anyone’s sins but their own sins is what they suffered for. But Jesus suffered for or better (because of our sins) and the sins of the world, even for the sins of Israel.
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Berean you said………”The TRUE Israël IS those “they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.(Rev.14:12)” ,
So tell us what was the Faith of Jesus, was it in himself or in God the Father. If we have the Faith of Jesus then that Faith will be in “God the Father , just as his Faith was.
That is not to say we don’t believe in what Jesus said, but if we do believe in what he said, then all our Faith will be in God the Father , just as his Faith was.
peace and love to you and yours Berean……….gene
@Gene
You Say: So tell us what was the Faith of Jesus, was it in himself or in God the Father.
Me
Why in himself ?
In the Father resolutely by the power of the holy Spirit of God. His faith is an example for us all.
Gene, what you definitely don’t see is that Jesus, although he is God in the nature of God the Father,
took on our human nature (Rom.8:3) and lived as every born-again child of God should live in the prayer of faith and the power of the Holy Spirit.
👉Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, 👉and took upon him the form of a servant, and👉 was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found👉 in fashion as a man👈, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.( Phil.2)For I came down from heaven, not to do his own will, but the will of him that sent him.( John 6:38)
A few hours before his trial, in the Garden of Gethsemane, he said: Father, if you be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
🙏
Berean…… If Jesus had all those “ADVANTAGES” OVER US THAT YOU GIVE HIM, THEN HE COULD NOT QULIFY, TO BE A “MESSIAH”. Him overcoming the world, and him telling we must also overcome “as he did” , would have been a lie, because he would have had a great advantage over us, by being a “PREEXISTING BEING” with all the foreknowledge we simply don’t have. He would not been “exactly” like we are. So his example to us would have been fraudulent . He had to be “EXACTLY” the same as we are to qualify to be our true example, and that means he could not have been a “preexisting” being, before his birth on this earth.
IT ALSO WOULD, completely destroy GOD the FATHERS work in humanity, by sending someone who was not truly “EXACTLY” the same as we are in “EVERY” WAY. The way you view and preach him gives him a complete unfair advantage over the rest of mankind.
THE JESUS YOU PREACH IS NOT, THE JESUS OF SCRIPTURE. IMO
peace and love to you and yours Berean………gene
Hi Gene,
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
If Jesus had all those “ADVANTAGES” OVER US THAT YOU GIVE HIM, THEN HE COULD NOT QULIFY, TO BE A “MESSIAH”. Him overcoming the world, and him telling we must also overcome “as he did” , would have been a lie, because he would have had a great advantage over us, by being a “PREEXISTING BEING” with all the foreknowledge we simply don’t have. He would not been “exactly” like we are. So his example to us would have been fraudulent . He had to be “EXACTLY” the same as we are to qualify to be our true example, and that means he could not have been a “preexisting” being, before his birth on this earth.
Scripture shows you the way if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness.…
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!“
to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.
If you cannot say Amen, then you have a problem with the faith.
Notice that Jesus emptied himself, so that means he didn’t have an advantage over us. He became one of us.
Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
Berean…… If Jesus had all those “ADVANTAGES” OVER US THAT YOU GIVE HIM, THEN HE COULD NOT QULIFY, TO BE A “MESSIAH”. Him overcoming the world, and him telling we must also overcome “as he did”
Here’s the problem. Adam was created perfect, but because of free will, he chose to go his own way.
Now you expect a man born in sin to overcome without divine help and be perfect.
In reality however, Adam sinned, but the final Adam saved us.
Just as Adam was different, yet failed, so it is with the final Adam who was different. But he did not fail.
Your insistence on being saved by a man just like you is foolish.
Why not just ask your own brother to save you, because all men have sinned.
But Jesus did not sin.
So he is not like your own flesh brother at all.
He is the final Adam, the Son of God, the messiah.
Even the angel of the LORD said that he was these things when he was a baby.
Listen to the Holy Messenger deliver the truth:
“Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.”
Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.”
Amen !
Proclaimer……First of all , you don’t understand what a “Messiah” is. A Messiah is and has to be a pure human being. like Moses, and other human God used from the human race, by anointing them with his Holy Spirit.
Second, no scripture says Jesus was “born” , before Abraham, that is your interpretation of what before means. But I see it as being “more important” than Abraham was, to us all. The Jews of his day thought that their tie to Abraham was more important than Jesus was to them. So what Jesus was telling them was that he was more important and that they should put him before Abraham in importance to them. John the Baptist basically said the same thin, when he told them God could raise up those stones unto Abraham if he wanted to.
The “only” advantage Jesus had was he had the fullness of the SPIRIT OF GOD, abiding in him. When Jesus was on this earth he had the “Nature of God” in him, That was talking about when he was on this earth, AND not and had nothing to do with when he was a so-called, “PREXISTING” Being, as you and other Falsely assume.
I maintain , JESUS was and still is a 100 % human being , nothing more and nothing less. A perfected “human being”, That God the Father had in mind before he ever created a single human, and a example, for all his created human race to come to be “exactly” like him, by the same power Jesus had, the Spirit of the living GOD ” DWELLING IN US”, enabling us to become “exactly” the same as JESUS .
You or no one else, has ever produced a single scripture showing any activity of JESUS before his birth on this earth.
Peace and love to you and your Proclaimer………gene
@Gene,
Response to 946389. Covering a lot in this response; hopefully you take the time and read it all; the last comment concerning Isa 53 is the primary focus of this response.
You: what do you do with where it says in Daniel that the Messiah would be cut off in the midst of the week?
Me: Would you listen to what I have to say or would you just ignore it and count it as false because it doesn’t agree with your religion? Would it be a waste of my time to explain what’s written?
You: WHAT ABOUT THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY God would not leave his soul in hell to see corruption?
Me: Whose soul? David’s? When you quote this verse have you read this specific passage in context with the rest of the Psalm? David is speaking in this chapter about himself. The word here is Sheol, NOT hell as the Kings James states, and means grave. Last I checked everyone ends up in the grave; good and evil alike. The word translated as “corruption” really means “pit” and according to Strong’s, the “pit of Sheol.” Do a simple “word study”, but use the original (Hebrew) as your base of study and not translated words of biased people.
You: I gave you those scriptures, but you just simply ignore them, as if they are not even written in our scriptures
Me: Your scriptures, hmmm?!? When have you answered a single question I’ve asked concerning an explanation of a passage?!? Still waiting for an explanation of the genealogy accounts given by Matthew and Luke and how they’re accurate when Matthew has the lineage going thru Jeconiah and Luke thru Nathan to get to Jesus; both are false and do NOT align with what God said. Still waiting for an explanation of Isa 7:14 being a prophecy for the birth of Jesus when the prophecy was given to King Ahaz to reassure him Judah wouldn’t be overthrown. Still waiting for how Jesus was able to stump the Pharisees after quoting Ps 110:1 (Psalm written to David, NOT by David and you believe the Pharisees didn’t know this!?? It’s christianity who doesn’t know the Psalm was written to David). Still waiting for the OT verses that Paul quotes saying the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind and be buried and raised up on the third day (NOT Isa 53 – no messiah mentioned, just a “servant” whom you assume is the messiah because that’s what you were told – or Jonah no matter how much you “believe” it is). Still waiting for the OT verse that says the innocent can pay for the sins of the guilty; yet Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind. Still waiting for the OT verse that says one is to believe in the messiah to be saved; isn’t God the source of salvation? Still waiting for the OT verse where God said he was sending a “moderator” so you can “communicate” with HIM; because praying to HIM is impossible without the Jesus. Before you say I “ignore” a scripture, pick up that mirror and take a long hard look.
You: No where does scriptures say the Nation of Israel suffered for anyone’s sins but their own sins is what they suffered for.
Me: Isaiah 53 isn’t speaking of Israel “suffering for anyone’s sins”; but baring the result of the sins of others. Knowing who is speaking where in this section is an extremely important aspect of the passage and if one doesn’t know, how can one fully understand what’s happening? The first part is the nations speaking of the atrocities they have done to the nation of Israel and it’s the nations admitting it was they who sinned against Israel by what they did to them. Isa 52:15 tells us the nations have a revelation of what they did and rolls into who “will believe our report.”
An analogy to hopefully explain this more clearly, a father who beats his child because they took a cookie they where told they couldn’t have; should the child be punished for taking the cookie? The obvious is they should be punished for the disobedient act; but to be beaten, we would agree is over the top. Would you consider the father sinful for having beaten the child even though the child was disobedient and wouldn’t this child then bare the sins of their father? This scenario is no different than what is spoken of in Isa 52:13-53:12; the nations, by the revelation of God, come to realize their sin for having treated the Israelite’s so harshly. If all you can do is look at a few verses from chapter 53 and claim it points to Jesus but are unable to explain how the rest of it points to Jesus (like verse 10), you may have the wrong understanding.
Are you following current events? Since Oct 7, 2023 Jewish communities have been the target of attacks and vandalism outside of Israel and they “deserve” this how? Multiple university campuses in the United States currently have riot police dispersing these “pro Hamas protests” that are actually “anti Israel protests” as they call for the death of Jewish people. In a recent article a student at Columbia University is quoted saying “Zionist don’t deserve to live.” Antisemitism is growing around the world and do the Jewish people deserve to be treated as though they’re a plague on this planet? Can you explain why the Jewish people have been the target of hate throughout history? What is happening to the Jewish people today IS Isaiah chapter 53.
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