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Hi Jodi,
You: Carmel, I would bet that the only way that YOU SEE that I am contradicting myself or that YOU SEE that I am admitting what I deny, is if you are taking what I have said and are applying it to what YOU further believe and then pretend that I believe that too.
Me: Jodi, read again what you said:
“the WORD” is not a pre-existing Jesus
EXISTING BEFORE AND SPEAKING CREATION INTO EXISTENCE.
Colossians 1:15 For in him were all things created in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominations, or principalities, or powers:
all things were created by him and in him.
16 And he is before all,
and by him all things consist.
Jodi, just explain what the above scripture tells you
IN PLAIN CLEAR ENGLISH BLACK ON WHITE!
You: “The WORD” is God’s Spirit…..
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
the Son of man who is in heaven.
John 6:62 If then you shall see the Son of man ascend up
where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth:
the flesh profiteth nothing. The words that I have spoken to you,
are spirit and life.
YES Jodi, JESUS IS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, AND A PRE-EXISTED SPIRIT!
Acts 16:7 says, “When they had come down to Mysia, they tried to go into Bithynia, and the
Spirit of Jesus did not allow them.”
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the figure of his substance, and upholding all things by THE WORD of his power, …..
John14: 9Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip,
he that seeth me seeth the Father also.
How sayest thou, Shew us the Father? 10Do you not believe,
that I am in the Father, and the Father in me?
John10:30 I and the Father are one.
THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT, OR TO BE MORE PRECISE THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT, THUS
JESUS IS ALSO A SPIRIT PROCEEDED AND CAME FORTH OF THE FATHER!
THAT’S WHY HE IS THE SUBSTANCE OF THE FATHER. Hebrews 1:3 ABOVE
John 8:42 Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me.
For from God I proceeded, and came;
for I came not of myself, but he sent me:
John 16: 28 I came forth from the Father,
and am come into the world: again I leave the world,
and I go to the Father.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
DT, YOU SAID……..> “@Gene,
Happy Easter!
me…..I don’t celebrate “Easter” , the goddess of sex and fertility, bunny rabbits and Easter eggs. I celebrate the. “PASSOVER” , by remembering the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, that he offered up for the forgiveness of our sins.
Not that Jesus’ sacrifice itself forgives our sins, as many supposes it does, but that it shows us what is required of us, to have our sins forgiven, The poring out of “our life”, ie blood, and conforming to the “WILL” OF GOD, just as Jesus himself did, Through the Holy Spirit given him after he was baptized in the Jordan river.
Just as Jesus said, ….”whosoever shall save his life will lose it, whosoever will lose his life for my sake, shall save it”. Blood is the “SYMBOL” OF LIFE.
The Israelites were commanded to kill a lamb by spilling it blood , which was “SYMBOLICALLY ” , showing them, what they had to do, with their life, in order for them to be saved. Put it together, if you can DT.
peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene
You: Not that Jesus’ sacrifice itself forgives our sins…
Me: Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Hebrews 9:22 …without shedding of blood is no remission.
1 John 1:7 …the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Hi DT,
You: We cannot forget it was the spirit is who impregnated Mary and NOT of the seed of David. Once again, you are justifying lies.
Me: Let’s consider FOR THE TIME BEING, the discussion of Jesus’ genealogy BETWEEN US, as the SON OF MAN, ENDED IN A STALEMATE.
THUS FOR A CHANGE, I AM TACKLING THIS PROCESS, AS YOU HINTED OUT, FROM GOD’S SPIRIT PERSPECTIVE, MY SPECIALITY THANKS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT, ALWAYS THOUGH, TO A CERTAIN LIMIT, AS I’M AFRAID YOU ARE SPIRITUALLY BLIND, FOCUSSED ONLY ON THE CARNAL PROCESS OF THE JEWISH MESSIAH, WITH EVERY RESPECT.
NOW, I BELIEVE YOU ARE MORE FAMILIAR AND MATURE WITH JEWISH LITERATURE IN GENERAL, AGAIN TO KEEP REMINDING YOU, FOCUSSED ONLY ON THE CARNAL SIDE OF THINGS, CARNALLY MINDED!!!
NOW TELL ME!
IS ISAAC BORN THROUGH NORMAL HUMAN INTERCOURSE, IN THE THOSE DAYS, SATANIC?
AGAIN I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN JEWISH LITERATURE IN GENERAL, NOT JUST SCRIPTURE OR IF YOU PREFER ONLY SCRIPTURE!
ONE MORE QUESTION!
IS THE JEWISH MESSIAH AN ORDINARY HUMAN BEING, AND DIFFERENT IN ANY WAY, OR ALSO
THE SON OF GOD, LIKE JESUS IS?
@Gene,
You: I don’t celebrate “Easter”…I celebrate the “PASSOVER”, by remembering the sacrifice of the Lamb of God, that he offered up for the forgiveness of our sins. Not that Jesus’ sacrifice itself forgives our sins.
Me: You do realize what you said is contradictory? Either the “lamb of God” was offered for the forgiveness of sin or it wasn’t; it can’t be an offering to forgive sin if it doesn’t do exactly that. It then makes the writer of Matthew a liar and he quotes Jesus as saying “this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.” That seems obvious the intended purpose of Jesus’ “sacrifice” was for the forgiveness of sin.
You also celebrate the “Passover”, did you celebrate this Jewish holiday this past weekend or will you be celebrating it April 22? The Passover lamb atoned for nothing and is a remembrance of the Israelite’s being delivered out of slavery. What you still haven’t explained is why God would offer his “son” as a sacrifice when HE calls human sacrifice detestable. Why did God violate his own words and send his “son” to death? Remember, “the ‘lamb’ was slain from the foundation of the world”, so before the world was created Jesus was already slain in God’s mind; so did Jesus have the “free choice” to not be “sacrificed” since this was planned before the world was made?
Please explain how one is to “symbolically” spill blood to be saved.
Then you say to “put it together, if I can”; That’s exactly what I did, I “put it together” and left christianity because of the deception. If you believe I am lying, prove me wrong. Why do you refuse to answer the questions asked in post #946257?
DT……life is in the blood, blood gives us, the power in this life we now have, to live and do things, just as it does for all creation.
Blood in scriptures is used for, a meaning of life itself. Without which you could not exist. In the Old Testament God used the pouring out of blood (life) as what is happening when we sin, what we are doing to ourselves. We are pouring out our lives. He used lambs blood, as a “substitutional ” example, of what is taking place “IN” us, when we sin. We are giving up our very own lives, which is in the blood.
Jesus’ sacrificed “HIS” own life, (from the start to the finish) to “demonstrate ” to us all, what is required of us all, to inter into the Kingdom of God. We must all repent and overcome, throw power of God’s “HOLY SPIRIT”.
Therefore Jesus said……” whosoever will save “HIS” life (the way he lives) will lose it, whosoever will lose his life (the way he lives) for my sake, will save it”.
This might be to hard for you to understand DT.
peace and love to you and yours DT…….gene
Hi DT,
You: We cannot forget it was the spirit is who impregnated Mary and NOT of the seed of David.
Once again, you are justifying lies.
TRUTH HURTS!!!!
ME: SO IS THAT HOW YOU BELIEVE IN A GOD WHO IS OMNIPOTENT???
YOU HAVE FAITH AS MUCH AS THE MUSLIMS, IF NOT LESS, AS THEY BELIEVE THAT GOD CANNOT HAVE A SON SINCE HE HAS NOT A WOMAN!!
HA HA HA HA HA HA .
YOU CAN REMAIN SILENT AS MUCH AS JODI DID.
THAT JUSTIFIES MY TRUTH!
NOW READ THIS:
Luke:3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance; and do not begin to say, We have Abraham for our father. For I say unto you,
that God is able of these stones to raise up children to Abraham.
NOW BACK TO Isaac:
Genesis 18:9 And when they had eaten, they said to him:
Where is Sara thy wife?
He answered: Lo, she is in the tent.
10And he said to him:
I will return and come to thee at this time,
life accompanying and Sara thy wife shall have a son. Which when Sara heard, she laughed behind the door of the tent.
11Now they were both old, and far advanced in years, and it had ceased to be
with Sara after the manner of women.
12And she laughed secretly, saying:
After I am grown old, and my lord is an old man,
shall I give myself to pleasure?
13And the Lord said to Abraham: Why did Sera laugh, saying: Shall I who am an old woman bear a child indeed ?
14Is there anything hard to God?
according to appointment I will return to thee at this same time, life accompanying,
and Sara shall have a son.
Genesis 21:1And the Lord visited Sara,
as he had promised:
and fulfilled what he had spoken.
2And she conceived and bore a son in her old age,
at the time that God had foretold her.
I WILL NOT COMMENT AT ALL FOR NOW!
IT IS UP TO YOU THIS TIME TO
JUSTIFY THE TRUTH, OR ELSE
YOUR LIES!
WHICH EVER YOU PLEASE!
I AM WAITING!
MR.DISERTRUTH
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
@Gene Balthrop
If you don’t believe that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ was for the forgiveness of sins, then don’t call yourself a Christian.Please read it again: Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
God bless
@Gene,
Continuing with the accusations of not understanding?!?! For 40 years I walked under the “christian banner”, read the bible, prayed, attended “church”, when the moment presented spoke on the “saving power” of the Jesus, did all the “christiany” things christians do. To tell me I “don’t understand” is pure foolishness; I understand all to well what is taught within the world of christianity and what I have discovered is there are no two religions that believe the same and each religion’s beliefs are the correct ones. Your faith is no different as you talk down to all who don’t see things your way.
When I first joined this site, you and I where mostly in-agreement; and if I were to have stopped seeking answers to my questions, I would have stopped at your faith. But I didn’t stop seeking answers and because of this I’m a “lost soul” according to you. Wake up and explain how Isa 7:14 is about the birth of Jesus, explain how Jesus stumped the Pharisees when quoting Ps 110:1, explain why the church uses Zech 13:6 as a reference to Jesus, explain why in Isa 9:6-7 the verb tense was changed to a future tense when the translated Hebrew is in the past tense? Can you explain why Matthew used Jeconiah in Jesus’ lineage when God said he was considered childless or why Luke uses David’s son Nathan as the lineage to the Messiah when it was God who said the Messiah was to come thru Solomon? Can you explain how Jesus could be the Messiah when he isn’t the “seed” of David and Solomon, but was conceived of the spirit?
I left christianity because they couldn’t answer these type of questions and the answers given resulted in more questions they couldn’t answer. It got to the point all the questions I asked started to anger a pastor and almost being kicked out of the church because I questioned doctrinal beliefs.
Your avoidance to answer these questions speaks volumes. Unfortunately we are dealing with human nature and mankind does like their comfort zones as they settle into their cozy ruts, to never challenge the status quo. Will you continue brush off these questions as none issues, will you look into what is being asked, or will you spend your life following what you have been told is truth?
Me: We cannot forget it was the spirit is who impregnated Mary and NOT of the seed of David. Once again, you are justifying lies.
You: SO IS THAT HOW YOU BELIEVE IN A GOD WHO IS OMNIPOTENT???
Me: No!! I believe the words God spoke to David, when HE said David’s lineage will continue through Solomon. HIS greatness have nothing to do with anything here.
You: YOU CAN REMAIN SILENT AS MUCH AS JODI DID. THAT JUSTIFIES MY TRUTH!
Me: Taunting?!?! Have you once again reverted to six year old playground antics?!? Your “right” because I haven’t given you a response? My “silence” has to do with time and whether I want to give you any of it. I’m still waiting for you to prove the lineage accounts given by Matthew and Luke are valid. One says Jesus comes through a man whom God said is childless in relation to David’s throne and the other uses Nathan to get to Jesus, when the Messiah was to be from the lineage of Solomon. Tik Tok, still waiting for an answer to how Jesus could possibly be the Messiah when he doesn’t fulfill the simple requirements of being of the seed (descendent) of David!!
You then bring up Abraham and Sarah and presume in Gen 21:1 (which has nothing to do with the Messiah) that God was the one who impregnated Sarah; you really need to spend more time in the Tanakh verse inside your corrupt, delusional, “spiritual” mind. You will recall in chapter 18 Sarah was told she would bare a son a year from then and when we arrive at chapter 21 it states God fulfilled his promise and she conceived and bore a son to Abraham at the appointed time. It would seem it is you who doesna’t believe in God’s power to open the womb of a barren woman. Kind of like HE did for Rachael and Hagar.
Then you have the gall to claim what I have been saying is a lie?!?!? Before you make such a foolish claim, verify what I have said and prove me wrong! Your proof will be in the Tanakh (that portion of the bible you claim is obsolete) and not the Greek Testament.
Luke 10:16 Jesus said: …he who rejects Me rejects Him who sent Me.
Hi DT,
You:You then bring up Abraham and Sarah and presume in Gen 21:1 (which has nothing to do with the Messiah)
MUSTN’T THE JEWISH MESSIAH BE A SON OF ABRAHAM???
It would seem it is you who doesna’t believe in God’s power to open the womb of a barren woman.
Kind of like HE did for Rachael and Hagar.
Me: Just read what I suggested please again:
NOW TELL ME!
IS ISAAC BORN THROUGH NORMAL HUMAN INTERCOURSE,….
AGAIN I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN JEWISH LITERATURE IN GENERAL, NOT JUST SCRIPTURE OR IF YOU PREFER ONLY SCRIPTURE!
NOW PLEASE JUST LEAVE OUT YOUR COMMENTS FOR A WHILE AND
PRODUCE THE RELATIVE SCRIPTURE CONCERNING
HAGAR AND RACHAEL SO WE CAN VERIFY THE TRUTH.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Me: You then bring up Abraham and Sarah and presume in Gen 21:1 (which has nothing to do with the Messiah)
You: MUSTN’T THE JEWISH MESSIAH BE A SON OF ABRAHAM???
Me: Was the promise given to Abraham the Messiah would come from him? NO! However, technically the Messiah would have to be a “son” of Abraham as he is the father of the nation of Israel and the Messiah would be Jewish, from the tribe of Judah, AND specifically from the lineage of David and Solomon. It sounds like your question is a deflection; answering a question with a question.
The question still stands, how can Jesus be the messiah when his biological father isn’t of the line of David, the line of Solomon, or a descendant of Abraham; when Jesus’ “father” is the spirit?
You: IS ISAAC BORN THROUGH NORMAL HUMAN INTERCOURSE
Me: DUH!!!! Did you not learn about “the birds and the bees”? Do you not know how babies are made? Why do you keep placing the Creator of all on the same level as fake Greek and Roman gods who impregnate mortal women. Again read chapter 18 and 21 of Genesis and let your mind figure it out…it’s not that hard. Wait, you have yet to prove that it was the spirit of God who impregnated Sarah; where is the scriptural evidence it wasn’t Abraham who got Sarah pregnant. After all, didn’t Abraham copulate with Hagar at the “ripe old age” of 86, baring him a son, Ishmael? So Abraham didn’t have a problem making babies or are you saying Isaac is a demigod?
You: PRODUCE THE RELATIVE SCRIPTURE CONCERNING HAGAR AND RACHAEL SO WE CAN VERIFY THE TRUTH.
Me: We have a mistake, NOT Hagar but Hannah and Rachel are who were meant. A simple search would provide you the answer you are looking for, but that would mean having to open that obsolete half of the bible. Since it’s to difficult to look for yourself, read Genesis 30 for Rachel and I Samuel 1 for Hannah. Both barren and God opened each of their wombs so they would conceive. How are you incapable of searching this yourself?!? Do you need everything spoon feed? Looking things up is called studying and it helps you learn new things you didn’t know before. Also, will you actually go “verify” what is said or just say you will?
Haven’t forgotten, still waiting for how Jesus, conceived of the spirit, could possibly be the Messiah when he doesn’t fulfill the simple requirement of being of the seed (biological descendent) of David. I know, my questions are meant to be ignored while you get to demand yours be answered and all MUST comply or else; then again, we know why none will answer my questions, don’t we…christianity falls apart.
DT……you said….> “For 40 years I walked under the “christian banner”, read the bible, prayed, attended “church”, when the moment presented spoke on the “saving power” of the Jesus, did all the “christiany” things christians do. To tell me I “don’t understand” is pure foolishness; I understand all to well what is taught within the world of christianity and what I have discovered is there are no two religions that believe the same and each religion’s beliefs are the correct ones. Your faith is no different as you talk down to all who don’t see things your way.”
So you admit it took you “40 years” to figure out modern Christianity has many errors. What took you so long?, I know there were many things wrong with what they were saying over 50 years ago. When I was in my twenties I started a serious search of scriptures, and by the time I was in my thirties I found “many things” , they were saying was wrong . It’s been over 50 years that I haven’t been associated with any church . What I have found out in over 50 years, is that there is both truth and lies in modern religious teaching , nearly every church has some truth in them and also some lies too. What you have done is like a person who is throwing out the baby with the wash, which shows me you have lost your way if you truly ever had it.
IF you think Jesus isn’t the true Messiah then you have completely missed the mark, even the Jews know when the Messiah was to be born , it’s clearly written in scriptures, the time of his “birth”. Read what Daniel said, he prophesied the time of his birth, and his death. Even a loose cannon like yourself should be able to understand it.
peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene
You said to DT: Even a loose cannon like yourself should be able to understand it.
Me: Good. But even you can’t understand the simple biblical fact that Jesus Christ died for our sins (1 Corinthians 15:3).
Don’t throw bricks when you live in a glass house…
@Gene,
You: IF you think Jesus isn’t the true Messiah then you have completely missed the mark.
Me: Explain. I have presented information you flat out reject or just ignore because it doesn’t align with what you believe. You refuse to answer my questions concerning the validity of Jesus being the messiah.
You: even the Jews know when the Messiah was to be born, it’s clearly written in scriptures, the time of his “birth.” Read what Daniel said, he prophesied the time of his birth, and his death.
Me: Give references, explain what they are saying, and let’s discuss them.
You: So you admit it took you “40 years” to figure out modern Christianity has many errors. What took you so long?
Me: You make it sound like a bad thing.
You: I know there were many things wrong with what they were saying over 50 years ago.
Me: Yet you still accept lies withing the pages of the NT as truth; the book of Hebrews is filled with them, but it’s okay; Paul taught against God’s commands, also okay. Personally, I wouldn’t be to proud of questioning the church for over 50 years when you still accept the NT as truth; once I started digging, it only took me a few months to figure out the NT isn’t God “inspired” word. If the NT was God inspired, why do churches argue over what it says, why is there no agreement with what it says, and why does every denomination have their own interpretation of what the passages say? If the words came from God, EVERYONE would understand it the same! Wakey, wakey; rise and shining…
@Gene,
What of the following did Jesus fulfill? Why do I reject Jesus as the messiah (the anointed one)? If you claim this will happen when Jesus returns, please tell me where God said the messiah was to come twice. Don’t think I’ve “missed” any “mark.”
First of all, he must be Jewish
“…you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)He must be a member of the tribe of Judah
“The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son
“And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)The genealogy of Joseph states he is not the biological father of Jesus. The other genealogy is through Nathan and not Solomon.
He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel
“And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus? What does christianity teach, that failure to believe in the Jesus condemns you to hell.
He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem
“…and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..” (Ezekiel 37:26 – 27)At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, it was shortly after Jesus died that the Temple was destroyed! Just the opposite of this prophecy!
He will rule at a time of world-wide peace
“…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Micah 4:3)Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus?
He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments
“My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24)
The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.
He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d
“And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd” (Isaiah 66:23)there are still millions if not billions of people in the world today who adhere to paganistic and polytheistic religions. It is clear that we have not yet seen this period of human history unfold. In christianity it is taught there is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; believe in the trinity or not, you believe in the trinity.
Aren’t you afraid of Hell?
You may think that Hell will be just Annihilation.
Don’t count on it…Matthew 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
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