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Hi Berean,
I hope you and Danny as well can continue the debate about fallen angels in the enmity thread as it would be more appropriate to continue over there.
I will give in this post however the following,
Satan = adversary – not fallen angel (God’s faithful messengers and humans are called adversaries in scripture)
Devil= slanderer/deceiver – not fallen angel (humans are called slanders and even called serpents for being slanders and deceivers)
Lucifer = shinning one/star – not fallen angel (Isaiah 14:12 shining one/star -son/first of the morning/AKA planet Venus and a human is called a shinning star of the morning)
Serpent = serpent – not fallen angel (humans are called serpents throughout the bible for being fearful, liars, deceivers and hypocrites ex. Matt 3:7 & 12:24, Romans 3:13, Micah 7:17, Psalms 140:3 )
Dragon = dragon, serpent sea monster- not fallen angel (human kings are called dragons Jer 51:34 and Ezek 29:3)
Beasts = beast, animal – not fallen angels (humans are called beasts for being ignorant, for following their instincts/carnal mind ex. Psalms 73:21, 2 Peter 2:12 and also represented as powerful rulers ex. Daniel 7:17, Rev 17:12)
Scripture tells us that God ALONE is the source of supernatural powers that bring forth darkness, evil/bad, cursing, evil spirits and gives influence to the course of the world, raising up kings and making them fall, determining outcomes to wars, hardening hearts of men, bringing earthquakes, floods, famine, diseases and vexations of the spirit.
Scripture tells us that any believed being with supernatural power to bless or curse, to bring forth any good or any evil upon the earth is FAKE, nothing but a false god invented by the imagination of fools.
Scripture tells us that men sin and do evil from their own imaginations out of their own hearts, from walking after the flesh following their own carnal minds and that to be carnally minded is death, which then tells us exactly who/what holds the power over death. Animals/beasts/serpents also follow their carnal minds, their instincts, which is exactly why man is likened to all sorts of creatures throughout scripture.
So what powers do your fallen angels possess, what is it that they can actually do, to which doesn’t go against the clear given word of God?
Scripture tells us that time and time again that God’s people did not listen to God (HE ALONE DOETH ALL THESE THINGS), instead they went after fake gods/fake demons, being influenced by false religions wherein they created their very own doctrines of demons and evil spirit beings. Jews and “Christians” alike are guilty of this and the interpretations and dual meanings they apply to a handful of scripture, that honestly don’t even make sense within the text, in attempt to support their doctrines, go 100% against other scriptures that declare clear given truths.
The passage of Gen 3:1 tells us a “serpent” spoke to Eve. Verse 1 also states this “serpent” was more cunning than all the beasts of the field God made. Is this “serpent” Sa-tan, is Sa-tan a created beast of the field, was this serpent somehow “possessed” by Sa-tan, or was this “serpent” a higher level of beast created?
This is actually a fascinating chapter when read without the biases of church doctrine. The fact the serpent is said to be cunning, means the serpent has intelligence and could reason; and apparently could also speak as Eve had a conversation with it (note, she wasn’t troubled by this speaking snake). God also speaks to the serpent when HE curses it. So, how could this “serpent” be Sa-tan or a creature possessed by him?
The curse of being on its belly means it must have been a creature who walked around as we do. Then to say it would “eat dust all its days” is rendered by commentators to mean the serpent would “licked up the dust of the earth, and which it could not well avoid in eating what ever food it did”; which would mean (I may be taking some liberties in my understanding, but does make sense) the serpent had a liking for food, enjoyed food as we do. Finally to finish the curse God put enmity between the seed of Eve and the serpent; the serpent would strike the heel of man and man would crush the serpents head. Think for a moment, how many people do you know like snakes and what is the response of most people to them?
@Desire Truth
Honestly I believe that EITHER Satan used this serpent (he made it his medium) to get Eve to sin against God’s order.
EITHER Satan transformed himself into a serpent to better deceive Eve.
But I am more in favor of the first option!
Be careful with Satan, if God allows him, he is capable of hypnotizing anyone, man or animal, and making them say or do anything.
God is capable of making an animal speak if he wants, for example Balaam’s donkey!
God is great and he makes everything work together for the good of those who love him.
Coming back to the serpent in the Garden of Eden, didn’t the apostle John tell us in his book “Revelation” chap. 12 that:
And the great dragon was cast out, 👉that old serpent, called👉 the Devil, and Satan, 👈which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him
…THAT OLD SERPENT CALLED THE DEVIL AND SATAN…
to meditate….Hi Jodi,
Oh, what you are saying is very dangerous.
My question to you: Who is Satan in Mark 3:22-30? (AKJV)
22 And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. 23 And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. 25 And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. 26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. 27 No man can enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind the strong man; and then he will spoil his house. 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: 29 but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.Be careful what your answer will be.
you: “Honestly I believe that EITHER Satan used this serpent (he made it his medium) to get Eve to sin against God’s order.”
me: So you “believe” Sa-tan possessed the creature and made it “entice” Eve to take and eat the fruit. Does your “belief” explain why Eve had no problem speaking with the serpent? Does your belief explain why it’s written the serpent is the most cunning of all created beasts of the field (note it didn’t say the serpent was most cunning because Sa-tan possessed it)? Does your “belief” explain why God cursed the creature with death if it was Sa-tan who was controlling the creature; how does that seem right and just to you?
you: “Be careful with Satan, if God allows him, he is capable of hypnotizing anyone, man or animal, and making them say or do anything.”
me: Your statement sounds like something from a movie; but, in it you state “if God allows him.” Are you saying the angels are here to do God’s will and therefore do not or cannot act on their own? This raises another question, do angels have freewill or are they simply “messengers”, as their name means, doing the will and bidding of the God who created them?
A small side note concerning the words of Eve in verse 3 “You shall not eat of it, and you shall not touch it, lest you die.” and let’s compare her words to God’s in verses 16-17 of chapter 2, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat. But of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it, for on the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die.” Did you catch it? She adds “touching” to what God said (Deut 4:2 comes to mind). There is more happening in this chapter than the “church” wants you to know because this event raises some questions concerning the serpent; but, it’s easier to say the serpent is Sa-tan or controlled by Sa-tan, thus any question concerning the serpent goes away and as a bonus the “church” has their scapegoat for all the “evil” in the world. Yet who created “evil”? Read Isa 45:7 “I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.” To say “evil” comes/originates from Sa-tan, is to call God a liar.
How did I miss this for 40 years?
@ Désire Truth
You
Does your “belief” explain why Eve had no problem talking to the serpent?
me
The Bible, as far as I know, doesn’t say if this caused him a problem….
Still, Eve entered into dialogue….
I still think she must have been surprised to hear a snake talking, and not just about anything!you
Does your belief explain why it is written that the serpent is the most cunning of all created beasts of the field (note that it is not said that the serpent was the most cunning because Sa-tan possessed it)
me
Satan used the abilities that God had given to the serpent for his own purposes. He put him under his complete control…for his evil task.
you
Does your “belief” explain why God cursed the creature with death if it was Sa-tan who was controlling the creature; how does that seem right and just to you?
me
verse 14 suggests that God spoke to the serpent (the animal)
It may seem unfair that God cursed him (although not with death)
but since God cursed him, there is a reason….
Did the snake have the ability to say no to the devil? Maybe ?On the other hand, verse 15 suggests that God was speaking to the devil….
me: “Beware of Satan, if God allows it, he is capable of hypnotizing anyone, man or animal, and making them say or do anything. »
you: Your statement sounds like something from a movie; but you say there “if God permits”. Are you saying that angels are there to do God’s will and therefore they cannot or cannot act on their own? This raises another question: Do angels have free will or are they simply “messengers”, as their name suggests, carrying out the will and orders of the God who created them?
me
I believe that God gave free will to angels and humans including Lucifer.
The latter misused it, and history and prophecy show that he never repented.you
A small side note concerning the words of Eve in verse 3 “You shall not eat of it, and you shall not touch it, lest you die.” and let’s compare her words to God’s in verses 16-17 of chapter 2, “Of every tree of the garden you can freely eat. But of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it, for on the day that you eat thereof, you shall surely die.” Did you catch it? She adds “touching” to what God said (Deut 4:2 comes to mind).
me
yes Eve added “touché”…
be careful not to perpetuate this fatal error….you
There is more happening in this chapter than the “church” wants you to know because this event raises some questions concerning the serpent;
me
Satan is the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)
This indicates that Satan has a strong influence over the ideals, opinions, goals, hopes and ideas of most men. Its influence also encompasses world philosophies, education and commerce. The thoughts, ideas, speculations and false religions of the world are under his control and are born of his lies and deception.you
but, it’s easier to say the serpent is Sa-tan
me
Isn’t that obvious to you?
you.
or controlled by Sa-tan, thus any question concerning the serpent goes away and as a bonus the “church” has their scapegoat for all the “evil” in the world.
me
Yes and noWe have our responsibilities for these things.
Cling to God, resist the devil,
and he will run away from youYou
Yet who created “evil”? Read Isa 45:7 “I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord does all these things.” To say “evil” comes/originates from Sa-tan, is to call God a liar.
How did I miss this for 40 years?
me
Ah ah
This remains to be proven MORE SOLIDLY.1) MUST SEE THE CONTEXT
2) WE CANNOT ALWAYS ESTABLISH A TRUTH WITH A SINGLE VERSE….
Hi Danny,
YOU: Yes, Job did complain and repented but he never cursed God.
Job 2:9-10
Then his wife said to him, “Do you still hold fast to your integrity? Curse God and die!”
But he said to her, “You speak as one of the foolish women speaks. Shall we indeed accept good from God, and shall we not accept adversity?” In all this Job did not sin with his lips.ME: What happens in the 40 CHAPTERS after chapter 2 Danny?
Please define the word “curse” specifically used in Job 1 and 2 that the adversary says Job would surely do.
The word “curse” used in Job I looked up in my Ancient Hebrew Lexicon this morning, it means to kneel in homage and then used as the opposite to that.
Job literally told God TO LEAVE HIM ALONE, which is the opposite of kneeling to God and giving him homage. Job proclaims that God must be his enemy, that too is the opposite of kneeling in homage.
But even further, read,
Job 13:3 But I desire to speak to the Almighty and to argue my case with God.
14 Why do I put myself in jeopardy and take my life in my hands 15Though he slay me, I will no longer wait, I will accuse him of his ways to his face!
22 Then summon me and I will answer, or let me speak, and you reply to me. 23 How many wrongs and sins have I committed? Show me my offense and my sin. 24 Why do you hide your face and consider me your enemy? 25 Will you torment a windblown leaf? Will you chase after dry chaff?
Job 38:1 And the Lord made answer to Job out of the storm-wind, and said, 2 Who is this who makes the purpose of God dark by words without knowledge?
Job 40:1 The LORD said to Job:
2 “Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him? Let him who accuses God answer him!” 3 Then Job answered the LORD:
4 “I am unworthy—how can I reply to you? I put my hand over my mouth.Job at a point was most certainly not kneeling to God in homage, quite the opposite, he wanted to accuse God to his face with injustice, exactly why God said that Job was darkening God’s council.
I’m not going to focus on every response, but just a few that really jump out as being patently false and why believing something doesn’t make it truth.
you:
verse 14 suggests that God spoke to the serpent (the animal)
It may seem unfair that God cursed him (although not with death)
but since God cursed him, there is a reason….
Did the snake have the ability to say no to the devil? Maybe?
On the other hand, verse 15 suggests that God was speaking to the devil.…
me:
You “believe” verse 14 God is speaking to the serpent and in 15 HE is speaking to the “devil.” This is absolutely false as the rules of grammar override any beliefs we may have. At the beginning of the dialogue (vs14) God specifically addresses the serpent: “And the Lord God said unto the serpent…”, in vs 15: “And I will put enmity…” a conjunction is used connecting it to the previous statement. So vs 15 God is still speaking to the one HE addressed in vs 14 – the serpent. You will also notice in this dialogue, God is specifically addresses three individuals as HE is passing out HIS judgment on them; yet, you came up with four. Words have meaning and there is no room for personal thought or in this case religious doctrine.
You say the serpent wasn’t cursed with death, how is having ones head crushed not a certain death?
You say “it may seem unfair…but…there is a reason.” First, God’s judgments are just and there is no “fairness” constraint in them. Second, this judgment was specifically for the serpent because of what it did and not for being “possessed” or “controlled.” In what you “believe” the serpent was judged righteously over an event it had no control over. I see an issue with this line of reasoning.
I realize a walking, talking snake sounds absurd today, but was it at creation? The words written actually support a type of walking, talking snake when read without the constraint of religious dogma and using one’s mind to process the words written.
you: “I believe that God gave free will to angels and humans including Lucifer.”
me: The word “Lucifer” means “shining one” or “morning star” and in the entire modern KJV bible it is used ONCE in Isaiah 14:12 as is a direct reference to the king of Babylon with most attributing the king to be Nebuchadnezzar and not to Sa-tan (aka the devil). Verse 16 tells us this “Lucifer” is a reference to a man and not Sa-tan “They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms…” Did you catch the word “man” is Sa-tan a man and when did Sa-tan make the earth tremble or kingdoms shake? Pointing out a single verse and not reading it in context creates dangerous (false) understandings.
Concerning the “freewill” of angels, due to space and time, I will leave it at a simple – they don’t have freewill, they are there to do as God commands them. Freewill was given to man because God wasn’t looking for robots to worship him; HE wanted those who would look to HIM as their king and savior. If there was no sin in the world what kind of relationship would there be between man and God?
you: “The latter misused it, and history and prophecy show that he never repented.”
me: Please provide factual historical examples of Sa-tan never repented and give the passages where prophecy states he never repented. Won’t hold my breath.
you: “yes Eve added “touché”… be careful not to perpetuate this fatal error….”
me: What “fatal error” are you speaking of? I’m reading the words written and God never said anything about not “touching” the fruit…explain.
you: “Satan is the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)”
me: you quote the liar Paul as your support for Sa-tan being in control of the world!??! (still waiting for I Cor 15:3,4 “according to scripture”)
The sad part of your response is they are based in a religious belief system.
“You don’t learn by having faith. You learn by questioning, by challenging, by re-examining everything you’ve ever believed. And yet, all this is a matter of faith – the faith that there is a truth to be found. To truly question, you must truly have faith” (T. Freeman)
In other words, if you aren’t questioning, challenging, or re-examining what you believe, it’s not “faith” you have, it’s “belief”; and you can be manipulated into believing anything…true or false.
@Danny,
I see nothing “dangerous” in what Jodi wrote; explain why you believe what she is saying is dangerous. A quote in the NT attributed a few scribes accusing Jesus of being possessed by “Beelzebub” doesn’t explain anything.
Beelzebub (Baal-zebub) means “lord of the flies”, is the god of the Philistine city Ekron, and is first mentioned in II Kings chapter 1. How are you inferring Beelzebub is a reference to Sa-tan when Judaism defines sa-tan as adversary and generally treats the term as a verb and not a personal noun.
Curious to why you left off verse 21 of this passage, why does Jesus’ family accuse him of “having lost his senses”? This is right before the scribes accuse him of being possessed by Beelzebub, explain.
@ Desire Truth
You
You say the serpent was not cursed with death, how is having its head crushed not certain death?
me
Don’t you see that God, speaking to the Serpent, addresses first the animal, then the devil….
It’s clear though… isn’t it?
v.14
serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
[14] And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above 👉all cattle, and above 👉every beast👈 of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:v.15
And I will put enmity between👉 thee and the 👉woman, 👈and between 👉thy seed and👉 her seed; 👈 it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.👈The seed of the serpent is the body of people who oppose the authority of the Kingdom of God. Cain (who killed his brother Abel), Lamech (Genesis 4:17-24), and those who opposed Jesus (John 8:33, 41-44).
The Seed of Woman Are God’s Chosen People Throughout Redemptive History AND Christ in finality Who bruise the head of the serpent at the cross.
Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.(Gal.3:16)
me: “yes Eve added “touché”… be careful not to perpetuate this fatal error….”
you: What “fatal error” are you speaking of? I’m reading the words written and God never said anything about not “touching” the fruit…explain.
me
fatal error
👇
add to the word of GodGod did not say not to touch the fruit, but not to eat it.
Eve added to the word of God: “touched”
And we have to be careful about that.
You
me: “Satan is the god of this world (2 Corinthians 4:4)”
you: you quote the liar Paul as your support for Sa-tan being in control of the world!??! (still waiting for I Cor 15:3,4 “according to scripture”)
The sad part of your response is they are based in a religious belief system.
Me
No, I rely ON THE WORD OF GOD.
For 1Cor.15,4 the answer IS in ISAIAH CHAPTER 53
you: “Don’t you see that God, speaking to the Serpent, addresses first the animal, then the devil….
It’s clear though… isn’t it?”
me: I suppose when you ignore that pesky “and” you can see the second part as being referencing “the devil.” Unfortunately when you understand grammar, know how grammar works, and appropriately apply the rules of grammar, one actually see verses 14 and 15 are a singular thought. BUT, you are free to “believe” whatever you wish; that is what is called freewill. To answer your question; NO, there is nothing clear in what you claim as truth. All you have to do is read the words; God is a “straight shooter” and maybe that’s the problem, mankind over analyzes instead of just listening.
you: “The seed of the serpent is the body of people who oppose the authority of the Kingdom of God.”
me: where do you get this from? The word “seed” used in this passage in Hebrew is “zera” which means descendant. This is literal and zero exegesis is needed to read between the lines to come up with your nonsense. This is literally saying the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent will be at odds with one another. Again, when people see a snake today their first reaction is to kill it. How do you not see this?!!? It’s written plainly in front of you!
you: “fatal error, add to the word of God”
me: did you not read the Deuteronomy verse I gave you? Is reading and comprehension foreign to you? You literally repeated what I originally said, yet prior you said I needed to be careful and not “perpetuate this fatal error.” I pointed out Eve added to what God said…CONFUSED!!
You say you rely on the “Word of God”; what exactly do you consider the “Word of God”? I have shown how the NT (aka the Greek Testament) doesn’t align with the OT; yet, it’s spun away as being a none issue.
Nowhere in Isa 53 does it ever speak of the Messiah being buried and raised up on the third day, more lies from Paul. Not really a fan of Paul when he makes statements like II Cor 11:8 “I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.” Robbed them did he; isn’t there some commandment about not stealing…sounds like someone I want to listen to! NOT!! Let’s back up a few verses where II Cor 11:5 where he states: “For I consider myself not at all inferior to those “super-apostles.” (NET) Coming from the same man who claims to be the 13 apostle; yet, in Acts 1:21-22 an apostle was to be one who walked with and witnessed Jesus resurrection and Paul never met Jesus, let alone witnessed the “resurrection.” You want something really funny, in II Tim 1:15 Paul laments over all those in Asia turning away from him and in Rev 2:2 John commends those in Ephesus who put to test those who call themselves apostles and were not. A coincidence, I think not! You can continue to put Paul on a pedestal or look at him for who he really is – a liar!
@ desiretruth,
Apostle Paul was not a liar.
YOU are the liar!
1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ?
He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.@Danny
What a fascinating response, nowhere in anything you said did you point out what I “lied” about. Did I lie when I repeated what Paul said to the church in Corinth about “robbing” other churches? Do you not take issue with him saying he robbed other churches?!? (II Cor 11:8)
Paul states, “For all the law is fulfilled in one word (command) , even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself.” (Gal 5:14)
What did Jesus say, “Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” (Matt 22:36-40)
I counted two Jesus gave, but I guess I am being deceptive once again, right?!
Read Acts 15:1-32 and Gal 2:1-10:
Paul goes to Jerusalem over a discussion concerning whether gentiles are required to be circumcised or not and the general consensus is the gentiles where “to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals, and from blood.” This was written in a letter to the churches. Now let jump to Galatians where Paul is recounting to them his visit to this counsel in Jerusalem and focus like you have never focused before on the words of Paul in Gal 2:10. What does he tell those in Galatia he was to do…“10 They only asked us to remember the poor.” Something doesn’t match. I thought the letter included some other items the gentiles where to observe and it wasn’t to only “remember the poor.”
Staying on this letter Paul was to take to the churches, it said “to abstain from food polluted (sacrificed to) by idols” and Paul teaches (I Cor 8:1-8) it doesn’t matter whether or not food sacrificed to idols is consumed. This is direct conflict to what was agreed upon at the council in Jerusalem. Paul is in opposition to the church leaders, the ones who actually walked and talked with Jesus and you are okay with this??!!
I’m the liar, maybe you should pick up your Greek Testament and read what it actually says; better yet, skip Paul and pick up the Tanakh (aka OT) and read what God has to say.
You give Danny and amen for writing nothing; but no response with our discussion concerning Sa-tan.
Did you ever find the passage where the Messiah was to be buried and raised up on the third day in the OT? Remember, this is “according to scripture” says Paul.
Hi Danny,
I see that DT revealed to you that Beelzebub is nothing but a false god of the Philistines, which was a point I was going to make.
There as some truths I think you need to think through and some scriptures then that need to be relooked at.
Other religions attributed both physical and mental illnesses and diseases to be coming from their gods with their demons/evil spirits/devils.
But it is YHVH alone who does all these things, brings the likes of boils, blindness, mutism etc… AND MADNESS (AKA mental disorders). Mental disorders back then were referred to as being possessed by an evil spirit, demon or devil.
Deuteronomy 28:27 The LORD will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, festering sores and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The LORD will afflict you with madness, blindness and confusion of mind.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (ra/bad): I the LORD do all these things.
Danny can you or can you not believe in this clear given truth and then take this truth and relook at scripture also knowing that God’s faithful angels who brought forth cursing are called SAW-TAWN.
In addition to these facts we also know that God’s people went after false religions, so you must realize Danny that directly means that they believed in the demons/evil spirits of these false religions, which both the OT and the NT tells us were fake, they had no power. Jews even invented their own doctrines around demons and evil spirits. Jews like the Pharisees and Sadducees believed that evil spirits could enter you when you slept so one must complete a hand washing ritual at the first of every morning.
The scribes believed in Beelzebub a false god and him being a prince of demons. Hmm.
The Book of Enoch gives us another primary example of Jews creating their own doctrine aligning pagan myths with the bible. The book is all about fallen angels and therein they are doing that which God says He only does.
From Britannica,
First Book of Enoch, pseudepigraphal work (not included in any canon of scripture) whose only complete extant version is an Ethiopic translation of a previous Greek translation made in Palestine from the original Hebrew or Aramaic.
Enoch, the seventh patriarch in the book of Genesis, was the subject of abundant apocryphal literature, especially during the Hellenistic period of Judaism (3rd century BC to 3rd century AD). At first revered only for his piety, he was later believed to be the recipient of secret knowledge from God. This portrait of Enoch as visionary was influenced by the Babylonian tradition of the 7th antediluvian king, Enmenduranna, who was linked to the sun god and received divine revelations. The story of Enoch reflects many such features of the Babylonian myth.
I want to point out that scripture does not say that what these false gods and their demons really are, are fallen angels. Scripture clearly tells us that they are fake having no power to do any good or any evil. ALSO the idea that God is ultimately in control but He “allows” fallen angels to have control over earth is not anywhere substantiated in scripture. God certainly allows human rulers to have control and do evil but it is only God who holds supernatural power to bring forth blessing and cursing, bring forth light and darkness. Think about that for a moment and why God felt He needed to make the point that ONLY HE CAN DO ALL THESE THINGS.
I have much more to say and scriptures to give in my next post.
I am going to post in the Enmity thread and Berean I see your post with the question about who is the serpent in the garden and so I will answer that there as well.
Hi Jodi,
ME: ONLY JESUS RECEIVED ALL THE ABOVE BY THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT WITHOUT MEASURE, BUT NOT INCESSANTLY POSSESSED!
YOU: There exists no scriptural support for what you have stated whatsoever.
ME: WE’LL SEE AS WE PROCEED TILL I ANSWER ALL YOUR FALLACIES.
You continually add into scripture what is not there and turn the bible into a book of nonsense.
As said before there exists no scripture that Jesus received God’s Spirit here and there. The idea that the Spirit descended upon him like a dove and abode in him,
but would leave him and then descend again, is complete garbage.
Me: Jodi, YOU ARE COMPLETELY CONFUSED AND YOUR MINDSET REGARDING THE POWER OF THE FATHER AND THE FUNCTION AND TASKS OF THE HOLY GHOST IS NOT ONLY BLANK BUT A FALLACY, WITH EVERY RESPECT. YOUR COMMENT ABOVE IS ONLY FOCUSED ON THE HOLY GHOST.
BUT IRONICALLY YOU LEFT OUT THE MOST VITAL PRECISELY:
THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
Now read again what I said in my post:
Me: Jodi and in this case Gene, WHERE DOES SCRIPTURE SAY THAT JESUS WAS IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT WHILE HE WAS IN THE WILDERNESS?
Jodi IN THE ABOVE I USED THE TERM “IN THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT” THEN I SAID:
JESUS WAS ONLY LED BY THE SPIRIT TO BE TESTED AS A HUMAN BEING IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN!
AND SATAN, THE DEVIL, IS NOT THAT STUPID TO TEST THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
You: He indeed had the power to make bread from stone.
John5:19 Then Jesus answered, and said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you,
the Son cannot do anything of himself,…..
NOW READ AGAIN WHAT I SAID TO YOU:
HOW ON EARTH COULD JESUS BE TESTED AND EVENTUALLY SIN IF HE WAS UNDER THE POWER OF THE SPIRIT?
IT’S ILLOGICAL AND
PURE NONSENSE!
You: The idea that the Spirit descended upon him like a dove and abode in him,
but would leave him and then descend again, is complete garbage.
ME: YOU IN THE ABOVE ARE CONFUSED AND SAID THAT THE SPIRIT WOULD LEAVE HIM AND THEN DESCEND AGAIN.
NO Jodi, IT’S WHAT YOU SAID IS COMPLETE GARBAGE I’M AFRAID!
NOT THE SPIRIT WOULD LEAVE JESUS AT ALL, BUT
THE POWER OF GOD WOULD NOT BE PRESENT AS GOD FEELS FIT!
AS WE WILL SEE LATER THROUGH SCRIPTURE.
THE POWER OF GOD AND THE FUNCTION OF THE HOLY GHOST ARE TWO DIFFERENT PROCESSES. THERE’S A DIVINE PROCEDURE, THE FATHER, A SPIRIT, ALWAYS ETERNALLY ABIDES IN THE HOLY GHOST, GOD’S SOUL, THEN BOTH ETERNALLY INDWELL THE SON, JESUS
Well asserted in
Isaiah 42:1 BEHOLD MY SERVANT, I will uphold him: my elect,
MY SOUL delighteth in him: I have given MY SPIRIT upon HIM…..
AS CLEAR AS A CRYSTAL Jodi,
BEHOLD MY SERVANT….. HOW??
JESUS PREEXISTED AS A SPIRIT BEFORE THE WORLD WAS AS
THE EMBODIMENT AND CARRIER OF GOD THE FATHER,
GOD’S SERVANT!
AND IN BETWEEN THERE WAS/IS ALWAYS THE HOLY GHOST.
GOD’S SOUL. TO BE CLEAR:
THE SPIRIT, THE FATHER
THE SOUL, THE HOLY GHOST, AND
THE FLESH “THE WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN.
THE TRIUNE GOD!
NOW WE ARE CREATED IN GOD’S IMAGE!
IN SPIRIT, SOUL, AND FLESH!
WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON!
Now let’s read:
Luke 1:34 And Mary said to the angel: How shall this be done, because I know not man? 35 And the angel answering, said to her:
THE HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee, and
THE POWER of the MOST HIGH shall overshadow thee. And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called
THE SON OF GOD.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, FROM Luke ABOVE, WE ARE CERTAIN THAT THE POWER OF GOD IS THE ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER, NEVER OF THE HOLY GHOST ALONE AS SUCH. Well asserted also in
Luke 22:69 But hereafter the Son of man shall be sitting on the right hand of
THE POWER OF GOD.
Jodi, JESUS IS SITTING ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER NOT ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE HOLY GHOST OK?
I REPEAT: THE POWER IS THE ATTRIBUTE OF THE FATHER AS HE FEELS FIT!
THUS FROM THE FATHER THE POWER OF GOD PASSES UNTO THE HOLY GHOST, GOD’S SOUL, AND FROM AND THROUGH THE HOLY GHOST UNTO THE INDIVIDUAL, IN THIS UNIQUE AND MOST MYSTERIOUS DIVINE/HUMAN BLENDING CASE UNTO JESUS’ MOTHER, THE VIRGIN MARY.
THUS, IN THIS PARTICULAR PROCESS OF THE INCARNATION OF GOD IN JESUS’ CONCEPTION OCCURRED, OR SINCE MARY, THE WOMAN, IS ALSO INVOLVED, AT LEAST SEEMED TO OCCUR, TWO SEPARATE DIVINE PROCESSES Jodi! “FIRST”, THE ONE BY GOD’S MOST VERSATILE HOLY SPIRIT, IN THIS CASE, THE HOLY GHOST, GOD’S SOUL, Isaiah 42:1, AND THEN, THE ONE BY THE POWER OF THE FATHER,
THUS, IMMEDIATELY ON MARY’S CONSENT, ACCORDING TO GABRIEL’S DESCRIPTION, OCCURRED A UNIQUE CONSISTENT DIVINE PROCEDURE,
WHEN THE HOLY GHOST INITIATED THIS COMPOUND PROCESS, AND HE CAME UPON AND OCCUPIED MARY’S WOMB “FIRST”, THEN IMMEDIATELY THE POWER OF THE FATHER FOLLOWED, OVERSHADOWED MARY, ATTENTION PLEASE, AND THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’DIVINE NATURE, NOT THE SON OF MAN, JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE YET, WAS FULLY FORMED SPIRITUALLY OF THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS’SOUL.
A PERFECT TRIUNE SPIRITUAL PROCESS BY GOD ORCHESTRATED BY
THE POWER OF THE FATHER, WITHIN THE HOLY GHOST, GOD’S SOUL, AND BOTH IN THE SON OF GOD. Isaiah 42:1,
THE TRIUNE GODHEAD EMBODIED IN JESUS’ SOUL, WITHIN MARY’S UNIQUE WOMB, AS “THE WORD”
NOT YET MADE FLESH IN OUR HUMAN WORLDLY TERMS, HENCE; THE FACT THAT OCCURRED
A DIVINE/HUMAN BLENDING, AS GOD INCARNATED IN JESUS’ IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, IN MARY’S WOMB.
I REPEAT THROUGHOUT SPIRITUAL!
NOTHING IN FLESH AND BLOOD YET!!!
SOMETHING TO CHEW NOW, THOUGH YOU DON’T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE TEETH! WITH EVERY RESPECT!
AS GOD, INCARNATED IN JESUS’CONCEPTION IN MARY’S UNIQUE WOMB WAS NOT YET IN
THE WORLD, SATANIC!
BUT EQUALLY STILL IN HEAVEN.
THE FACT THAT NEITHER SPERM NOR OVUM WAS PRESENT THERE!
ONLY GOD’S TRIUNE GLORY IN HIS SPIRITUAL WORK!
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH IN GOD’S TERMS!
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead corporeally;
NOW THIS DIVINE PROCEDURE, WHERE THE HOLY GHOST ALWAYS INITIATES GOD’S WORK, IS EVIDENT THROUGHOUT SCRIPTURE, IT’S HIS PARTICULAR TASK RIGHT FROM Genesis 1:2, THEN THE POWER OF THE FATHER FUNCTIONS ONLY AS GOD FEELS FIT FROM WITHIN.
Well asserted hereunder:
Acts 10:44 While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them that heard the word. 45And the faithful of the circumcision, who came with Peter, were astonished, for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also. 46For they heard them speaking with tongues,
and magnifying God.
47Then Peter answered: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized,
who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we?
FROM THE ABOVE WE ARE AWARE THAT THE HOLY GHOST INITIATED HIS WORK FOR GOD AND DELIBERATELY OCCUPIED THE GENTILES EVEN BEFORE THEY WERE OFFICIALLY BAPTIZED.
SIMPLY AS HE WAS ENRICHED BY THE UNIQUE AND THE MOST POWERFUL ATTRIBUTES OF JESUS CHRIST AS GODMAN ON EARTH, PRECISELY SENT FROM THE FATHER, BY JESUS CHRIST THE SUPREME RULER OVER ALL, AND PROPRIETOR OF ALL FLESH, ONLY POSSIBLE BY AND FROM JESUS’DEATH, HIS RESURRECTION, AND GLORIFICATION OFFICIALLY ON EARTH FROM PENTECOST, AGAIN ALSO IN THIS CASE
BY THE INITIATION OF THE WORK OF GOD PRECISELY BY
THE HOLY SPIRIT!
NOW WITH CERTAINTY, WE KNOW THAT THE FUNCTION OF THE HOLY GHOST IS DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT FROM THAT OF THE FATHER AND HIS POWER. DESPITE THEY ARE EQUAL AND ONE IN EVERY SENSE, AS ONLY THE FUNCTION IS DISTINCT AND DIFFERENT, THUS,
FOR ONE TO BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST IS A PROCESS ON ITS OWN, AND TO BE FILLED WITH POWER IS ANOTHER OF THE FATHER, ESPECIALLY POWER WITHOUT MEASURE ONLY ENDOWED TO JESUS THE SON OF MAN, AFTER HE LEFT THE WILDERNES, FOR THE FULFILLMENT OF GOD’S GLORY ON EARTH!
THOUGH A KIND AND A TEMPORARY LIMITED POWER COULD ALSO BE PRESENT, LIKE IN THE CASE IN Acts 10 ABOVE.
You: You continually add into scripture what is not there and turn the bible into a book of nonsense.
All that in the next post!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
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