JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Berean]

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self👉 with the glory 👉which I had with thee before the world was.👈

[DesireTruth]

@Jodi,

You say I was brought up in a church full of lies; which “denomination”, which “church”, which “faith” has it correct? Where exactly should I go to be taught? If you say the spirit leads and teaches, we have a problem because everyone believes something different and all claiming it’s of the “spirit.”

In John 2:22 the disciples believed the scripture Jesus spoke, what scripture are they remembering? Pull out your study bible to confirm yourself, it’s Ps 16:10 and not a reference Jonah…hmmmm. Continuing with Ps 16:10; one verse that sounds like Jesus, doesn’t make it about Jesus. This Psalm has to be read in it’s entirety and is David speaking of his trust in God and has nothing to do with Jesus. Read verses 9-11 and tell me David wrote anything about Jesus; he’s speaking about himself. Words mean something and mean what they mean; when one starts interpreting them beyond their intended meaning, they can mean whatever you want them too…dangerous. Another verse taken out of context to make it point to Jesus.

In Matt 12:38-42 the leaders ask for a “sign”, what is this sign they are seeking – more “miracles”? Don’t think is was more miracles as I am sure at this point they has seen and heard of many. Early on in Jesus’ ministry he spoke to the Samaritan woman and told her he was the Messiah; do you think it possible this had circulated back to the religious leaders as word was spreading to who Jesus claimed to be? So did this “sign” they where looking for have to do with his “Messiahship”? Which brings me back to a previous question, who where the Jews looking for concerning the Messiah; what was the Messiah suppose to do?

The 3 days and 3 nights narrative given in the gospels say Jesus was crucified on the day of preparation (Friday) and rose on the first day of the week (Sunday). The math doesn’t add up, the best one can come up with is 3 days and 2 nights. So Jesus didn’t fulfill what he said was to happen. The Jonah correlation falls flat and the sign disappears. Please also remember, Paul simply says three days and doesn’t include the nights; so what exactly is Paul quoting and from where?

I would also like to point out Luke 24:46-47 where Jesus says, “Thus it is written, that the Christ would suffer and rise again from the dead the third day, 47 and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem.” Reverencing my study bible, there are zero references back to the OT in this passage; Jesus said it, where is it written? Jesus drops the 3 nights, so the parallel to Jonah is gone. Jesus then goes onto say “that repentance for the forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in his name and is in the same sentence that starts with “Thus it is written.” Whoa, where’s that “it is written” OT reference?

You will find nowhere in the NT the idea of approaching God directly as in Jonah and HIM forgiving you; it’s always through Jesus. Paul goes out of his way to completely abandoned the idea of God being the one who forgives. What changed from the OT to the NT? If I was able to go directly to God in the OT why do I have to go through another in the NT? How were people “saved” in the OT without Jesus and why wouldn’t it still be the same today?

[DesireTruth]

@Berean,

Isa 42:8 “I am Yahweh; that is my name, and I do not give my glory to another…” Hmmmmm!

[DesireTruth]

@Carmel,

Of course if the religious leaders had killed Jesus is irrelevant to you; however, are you saying the “word of God” is irrelevant or it doesn’t fit your truth. Fact is the Jews were allowed to punish people under their laws and customs; but, to put someone to death, that had to go through the Roman governor. So if the leaders would have stoned Jesus and killed him, they would have been subject to the Roman laws and been put to death themselves.

I read your “randombiblefacts” link and they don’t use Hebrew, they use Aramaic to justify away what is being said in Ps 110:1; except this would have been written in Hebrew, so all and any understanding MUST be from the Hebraic mindset. The word is still “ladonai” or “ladoni” (¿spelling?) which is simply a title of authority – master or lord. Explain!

[Nick]

Hi Berean,

The One who heals through any human vessel, including Jesus Christ, is God.

” Men of Israel, listen to these words;  Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and signs and wonders which God performed through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.. “

Acts2.22

wake up.

 

[DesireTruth]

@Gene,

I’m “cherry picking” nothing, I am reading the words on a page. Everywhere I look I am finding something that pushes me further from this man called Jesus and directly to God. Maybe I should find my “I believe button” and stop verifying what I have been taught.

Read Mark 4:10-12, After Jesus tells the crowd a parable he tells the disciples they have been given the mystery of the kingdom of God while everyone else gets parables, 12 “so that while seeing, they may see and not perceive, and while hearing, they may hear and not understand, otherwise they might return and be forgiven.” Is Jesus really saying he is telling them parables so they don’t return to God and be forgiven?!?!?! Is Jesus intentional deceiving the crowd of people by telling them things they aren’t going to understand?!!? Jesus’ disciples had to have the parable explained to them too because they didn’t understand it either. Someone please explain how this is love and compassion and how this isn’t deception.

Then take a look at John 18:20 “Jesus answered him, ‘I spoke openly to the world. I always taught in synagogues, and in the temple, where the Jews always meet. I said nothing in secret.’” He said nothing in secret, but taught in parables so people couldn’t understand; yet had to explained them to the disciples. Someone help me out!

You say I cannot throw out the NT, when I read the above explain how I can continue to hold onto it? When I read Matthew’s infancy account of Jesus and he quotes Isa 7:14 as being prophecy fulfillment; but, when I read Isa 7 it has nothing to do with Jesus, it was a sign to King Ahaz. Yet, every Christmas this passage is read and people are blind to the truth of what Isa 7 really says…talk about “cherry picking”!

The sad part, I can keep going.

[Nick]

Hi DT,

So now you want to be the judge of Jesus Christ?

Not surprising.

[Nick]

Hi DT,

Of course if you judge the son then you judge the God Who spoke and worked through him.

What is the view like up there?

Take care not to fall.

[DesireTruth]

@Nick,

Is my understanding of Mark 4:10-12 incorrect? If so, please explain.

Is my understanding of John 18:20 incorrect? If so, please explain.

Is my understanding of Isa 7:14 incorrect? If so, please explain.

Is my understanding of Ps 16:10 incorrect? If so, please explain.

Is my understanding of Luke 24:46-47 incorrect? If so, please explain.

Is my understanding of Isa 42:8 incorrect? If so, please explain

 

You: “if you judge the son then you judge the God Who spoke and worked through him.”

Me: any supporting scripture for that statement?

[Berean]

@?ick

You

The One who heals through any human vessel, including Jesus Christ, is God.

” Men of Israel, listen to these words;  Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and signs and wonders which God performed through him in your midst, just as you yourselves know.. “

Acts2.22

Me

I am not against that AND I Say ALSO THAT JESUS BEFORE HIS INCARNATION WAS GOD.

And

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

We need not just part of the truth about Jesus but the whole truth and that is the work of the Holy Spirit in us.

🙏

[carmel]

Hi Desiretruth,

You: Of course if the religious leaders had killed Jesus is irrelevant to you;

Me: You misunderstood me I’m afraid,

Read what you said again:

You: Please explain John 18:31 where the religious leaders say it wasn’t lawful for them to put anyone to death under Roman law. The leaders were going to stone Jesus in one place and in another they remember they can’t?!?! Something doesn’t make sense.

 

ME: The above has nothing to do with my question, IT IS IRRELEVANT as my question is

Why did they take up stones to stone him?

Whether they did or not!

Now, WEREN’T THEY GOING TO STONE THE PROSTITUTE,

ONLY JESUS STOPPED THEM, AND

THEY DID STONE STEPHEN AS WELL DIDN’T THEY?

THEY COULD KILL NOT JUST ONLY BY STONING! Read hereunder:

Luke 4:28 And all they in the synagogue, hearing these things, were filled with anger. 29And they rose up and thrust him out of the city; and they brought him to the brow of the hill, whereon their city was built,

that they might cast him down headlong.

 30 But he passing through the midst of them, went his way.

Are you in the position to explain, how so many Jews grabbed Jesus so within their control, that they brought him to the brow of the hill,

and at that moment in time they were going to cast him down headlong.

HE SIMPLY PASSED THROUGH THE MIDST OF THEM AND WENT HIS WAY.

Read hereunder now:

John10:17 Therefore doth the Father love me: because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.

18 No man taketh it away from me:

but I lay it down of myself,

and I have power to lay it down: and I have power to take it up again.

This commandment have I received of my Father.

 

Now I will ask you again for the third time in pure clear and simple english:

Why did they take up stones to stone him?

 

You: however, are you saying the “word of God” is irrelevant or it doesn’t fit your truth. Fact is the Jews were allowed to punish people under their laws and customs; but, to put someone to death, that had to go through the Roman governor.

So if the leaders would have stoned Jesus and killed him, they would have been subject to the Roman laws and been put to death themselves.

 

Me: In view of what I said above 

it is only according to your mentality! 

 

You: I read your “randombiblefacts” link and they don’t use Hebrew, they use Aramaic to justify away what is being said in Ps 110:1; Except this would have been written in Hebrew, so all and any understanding MUST be from the Hebraic mindset. 

Me: SPIRITUALLY DEAD, AND CORRUPTED!

Just read again this caption from randombiblefacts:

The reason He did this is that the Pharisees understood from various verses that the Messiah would have the same Name as the Holy One – YHWH.  The long-standing tradition of Messiah sharing the spiritual Name YHWH has been preserved in many ancient Jewish texts, although it is not something that is openly discussed in modern Judaism, due to how closely it aligns with mainstream Christian doctrines.  

 

The Jews corrupted their scriptures and their interpretation.

MORE EVIDENT ONCE JESUS ESTABLISHED HIS GOSPEL!

THE TRUTH OF THE WORD OF GOD!

ESPECIALLY IN PAUL’S CHRISTOLOGY DIRECTLY BY

JESUS CHRIST

THE ONLY TRUE PHYSICAL GODMAN ON EARTH!

 

John17: 3 Now this is eternal life:

That they may know thee,

the only true God, and Jesus Christ,

whom thou hast sent.

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Berean]

@DT

Isa 42:8 “I am Yahweh; that is my name, and I do not give my glory to another…” Hmmmmm!

ME

[8] I am Yahweh: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

another

from ”achar’ (309); properly, hinder; generally, next, other, etc.:–(an-)other man, following, next, strange.

GOD does not want to give his glory to “another god or strange man.
His begotten Son is not among the strangers and he shares his Glory and HIS NAME.

🙏

 

[carmel]

Hi Desiretruth,

Nick,  “if you judge the son then you judge the God Who spoke and worked through him.”

You: any supporting scripture for that statement?

John 5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life:

so the Son also giveth life to whom he will. 

Me: Even to Himself!

22For neither doth the Father judge any man,

but hath given all judgment to the Son.

23That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father.

He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father,

who hath sent him.

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Nick]

Hi DT,

Who is the liar but the one who denies Jesus is the Christ. This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also. As for you let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 Jn 2.22f

Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 2jn 9 f

The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God hasgiven concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and the life is in His son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. 1 Jn5.10f

So Jesus said

”When you lift up the son of man , then you will know that I am he, and I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as my Father taught me. And He Who sent me is with me. He has not left me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him… “ Jn 8.20

I have no wish to debate the words of Jesus Christ, my Lord.

leave such ignorance to unbelievers.

 

[GeneBalthrop]

Desire Truth you said……..”Everywhere I look I am finding something that pushes me further from this man called Jesus and directly to God.”

Me….But what you don’t you see, is that is exactly what Jesus did also, he turns us to God the Father in every thing he said and did.  His whole life was for that very purpose.  Jesus said the greatest commandment was …>“to love the LORD YOUR GOD WITH “ALL” YOU HEART. “ALL” YOUT  SOUL, AND “ALL” YOUR  MIGHT “  .  Jesus was the greatest example of trusting in God the Father of anyone who ever lived.  That should be obvious to everyone.

Jesus also said unto them, >not every one has  been given the knowledge of the kingdom of God.  …….> Mark 4:11…> “unto you it has been given to know the “MYSTERY” of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without,  all these thing are done in parables; that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear and not understand; least at any time they be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them”.

Also we are told, “many are called, but only a few that are chosen”.

I have told you before and will tell you again, “he who rejects Jesus , has also rejected the one who sent him”.    DT you can’t have God the Father without Jesus,  the one he sent brother.

peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth…………gene.

 

[Jodi]

Hi Berean,

Unto Jesus there are many glories.

I see you posted John 12 highlighting verse 41,

12:41 These things said Isaiah, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

What is the glory that Isaiah saw which also aligns with John’s teaching?

Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Acts 10:36 The Word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37 That Word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; 38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

John 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. 11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

John 12:37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 That the saying of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Isaiah said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Isaiah, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

The glory Isaiah saw was that of a man being elected from among the people by our Creator YHVH, a man he saw receiving God’s Spirit and being sent out to preach God’s word, perform miracles in God’s name and set people at liberty from their sins fulfilling God’s covenant.  

The Word that was preached, of how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power and then sent him out into the world, was a glory unto a man declared before the world even began. 

 

 

[Berean]

The glory Isaiah saw was that of a man being elected from among the people by our Creator YHVH, a man he saw receiving God’s Spirit and being sent out to preach God’s word, perform miracles in God’s name and set people at liberty from their sins fulfilling God’s covenant.  

The Word that was preached, of how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power and then sent him out into the world, was a glory unto a man declared before the world even began. 

 

Me

Isaiah had a vision of the Divine Son of God in his glorious manifestation.

John 12
These things said Esaias, when he saw 👉his glory, and spake of him.(the divine Son of God)

Already before the foundation of the world the Son of God shared the glory of God his Father.
👇
John 17
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

🙏

[Nick]

Hi Jodi and Berean,

Is 6.1

In the year of king Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted,..

THE LORD IS GOD IN THE OT.

Enough said.

 

 

 

[Nick]

INCARNATION is not a biblical word.

more catholic theology.

[carmel]

Hi  Gene,

You: DT you can’t have God the Father without Jesus,  the one he sent brother.

Me, Gene, it’s the very first time I read that you admit the above!

VERY GLAD!

WHEN IT COMES TO REDEMPTION AND SALVATION:

NO JESUS NO GOD

NO GOD NO JESUS

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[Author]

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