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.Hi Gene,
You: Spirit “IS” the “COGNICITI”, A PERSON or animal HAS, given them by God,
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Me: Read again:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/spirit
SPIRIT
1 OF 2 NOUN
1
: an animating or vital principle heldTO GIVE LIFE to physical organisms
2
: a supernatural BEING or ESSENCE:You: “all things are possible with God”.
But according to you, IT IS NOT POSSIBLE WITH GOD TO BECOME
GODMAN IN JESUS!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
@Gene,
What you need to do is forget everything you have been taught about Isa 53; better yet, go verify everything you’ve been taught…is it truth?
For clarity, in what context are you speaking when you ask, “the nation of Israel, has also never done any of those things mentioned in Isa 53.” Are you speaking of verses 1-9 or 10-12? This question may get answered as I continue.
Isa 53 cannot be read and understood starting in verse one, this is part of the last “Servant Song” and must be read starting in chapter 52:13. You don’t read a novel starting in the middle, neither should you read this “song.”
The key to understanding this “song” is to know who is speaking where; In 52:13-15 God is speaking, HE states “My servant” (start reading in chapter 41) is Jacob/Israel and how HE will lift His servant up, restoring the nation of Israel. Next God describes the condition of the nation as being so “marred” it’s unrecognizable; this is not a physical appearance, but the state the nation is in. Then HE finishes with how the other nations will be startled/shocked by this restoration. At the start of chapter 53 we have the response from the “shocked” nations; who continue speaking through verse 9. In verses 10-12 Isaiah is speaking God’s words.
Let’s go a little deeper; this “song” can be broken into four parts:
52:13-15 – God describes the suffering and eventual restoration of the servant (Israel) and it shocks the nations.
53:1-3 – The nations restate what God said in 52:13-15. (reread it)
53:4-9 – The nations give their explanation of why Israel suffered.
53:10-12 – God’s explains why Israel suffered and the reward when they turn back to HIM.
I will be honest with you, since I have begun studying this, I can no longer see Jesus in these verses. I would highly recommend going to chabad.org and read the Isaiah passages there, skip your KJV and go to the source…Hebrew; after all, they did write the OT. If you want another good read and study tool, find “The Twenty Four Books of the Holy Scriptures” translated by Isaac Lesser and make sure it’s the study one that has the notes in it.
I challenge you and anyone who took the time to read this, to go verify what I have written; read it, study it, but please verify it for yourself. If I am wrong, show me and explain why; I’ll own my mistakes.
I hope this makes sense as I’m only skimming the surface; if you need clarification or questions, just ask. I may not get back immediately; have been extremely busy and have to much going on.
Hate to break it to you, not one of those verses cited spoke of a “sacrificed” Messiah. Keep guessing. Start in chapter 41 and read through 55, then tell me who the “servant” is. If you don’t read this section of Isaiah, placing it in the context it was written, you’re understanding is limited to what you have been told it says. You’re simply parroting what you have been told to believe.
So now I am “wicked” because I don’t have the same belief as you concerning the verses you cited?!?! Before you imply this accusation, reread the above section. If after reading you still believe it’s talking about Jesus, then you will have a series of questions you will need to answer.
Jesus wouldn’t have been crucified if they knew he was actually the Messiah; who were the Jews expecting in their Messiah? What events were suppose to happen for the Messiah to show up? What was the Messiah suppose to do when he showed up? None of these questions can be answered by looking in the NT, you need to go back to the OT.
You tell me to think; that is exactly what I have been doing. I have been comparing “prophetic quotes” in the NT to where it was referenced in the OT and they are completely taken out of context or have been reworded…that’s deception. These so called “prophecies”, because it “sounds like” what happened to Jesus, have been rubber stamped and called prophecy that points to Jesus, when they clearly don’t.
Here’s something to “think” about, why is virtually every religion arguing over what the NT says and then claiming they’re right and everyone else is wrong. This isn’t unity, but chaos. This website is the perfect example of this. We’re not discussing truths, we’re arguing over religious beliefs.
If you want more to start “thinking” about:
When did God ever require a human sacrifice? “Pagans” did that.
Why does Christianity use fear to convert people? If you don’t accept Jesus as your savior, you’re going to Hell.
Explain Isa 42:8 when compared to John 13:31-32; Matt 16:27; Mark 8:38; Luke 9:26. Something is amiss; did our unchanging God, change?
@Carnel,
Please enlighten all of us with your “super spiritual” thinking. Fix our “carnal” mindset and explain this verse, apparently my reading and comprehension skills aren’t as developed as yours.
If God isn’t the one who “reveals”; who does!
If God doesn’t know what is in darkness; who/what is in this particular darkness?
If light isn’t a characteristic of God; who/what is this light?
Read:
Job 12:22 “He reveals mysteries from the darkness and brings the deep darkness into light.”Job 26:6 “Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon hath no covering.”
Psalm 36:9 “For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light.”
You read this chapter “more than you think”; I don’t think you read the chapter at all, because the only thing you have pulled out is verse 22 and concluded there is something deeper to be had. Just read the words, Daniel is simply praising God. Are you seriously getting Jesus out of this single passage and somehow Daniel is prophesying about it?!? That’s nuts! What you are doing isn’t “spiritual” awareness of God’s Word, it’s twisting HIS word to get your belief to say what you want it to.
YOU: “BOTH OF US ARE PULLING IT IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION! I MEAN FROM THE SPIRIT SIDE OF IT, YOU FROM DARKNESS, and I FROM THE LIGHT”!
ME: Fascinating reply. First, we aren’t pulling the same rope; I have no idea what you are pulling at. I’m “darkness” and you’re “light”, it’s a good thing your ego isn’t to big; you may not be able to see the computer screen tomorrow.
YOU: “ I SIMPLY CONVINCED MYSELF MORE OF THE TRUTH!”
ME: This is a weird statement to me; you have to convince yourself of the truth? Then to call me blind…I think one needs to look in a mirror before you make comments like this.
@ desire Truth
Why does Christianity use fear to convert people? If you don’t accept Jesus as your savior, you’re going to Hell.
Me
In churches where there is no Spirit of God this may be the case, but personally I was not converted by the fear of hell, but by the love of God in Jesus. Christ.
🙏
I wasn’t asking about your personal experience; I am talking about the general state of the church today and the conversion process used. Here is what’s written on two separate “christian” tracks picked up in the last year:
Written on a fake “trillion dollar bill”, “The trillion dollar question: will you go to heaven when you die? Here’s a quick test. Have you ever told a lie, stolen anything, or used God’s name in vain? Jesus said, “whosoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.” Have you looked with lust? Will you be guilty on Judgment Day? If you have done those things, God sees you as a lying, thieving, blasphemous adulterer at heart. The Bible warns that if you are guilty you will end up in Hell.”
“God made each of us with a purpose – to worship HIM and walk with HIM. Life doesn’t work when we ignore God and HIS original design for our lives. We selfishly insist on doing things our own way. The Bible calls this sin. We all sin and distort the original design. The consequence of our sin is separation from God – in this life and for all of eternity.”
What’s the driving force behind these tracts? Are you going to say Love? If “you are guilty you will end up in Hell” or “you will be separated from God for all eternity”; where, in Hell. This isn’t “love”, this is “fear.” 2.5 Billion people call themselves Christian; how many of these are seeking after God or did they become “Christians” for “fire insurance” out of “fear” of going to Hell?
I find it odd how people can be so adamant in what they believe, but have no idea why they believe it. I’m questioning what I was told to believe for most of my life; but, I can’t find it written anywhere within the scriptures. That tells me it’s man made, what does it tell you?
I asked a “simple” question, where in the OT does it state the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind? This question has caused everyone to run in the opposite direction. Are you verifying what is said to be truth or do you pull out your handy “I Believe Button”?
Hi Desire truth,
You: Please enlighten all of us with your “super spiritual” thinking.
EVENTUALLY YES I WILL DO, IN FULL HUMILITY, AS I ONLY ENLIGHTEN YOU WITH WHAT THE LIGHT FROM ABOVE FURNISHES ME WITH!
WHERE READING SCRIPTURE REALLY, DOES NOT COUNT AT ALL;
IT IS FAITH, FASTING, and PRAYING!
Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you: seek, and you shall find: knock, and it shall be opened to you. 8For every one that asketh, receiveth: and he that seeketh, findeth: and to him that knocketh, it shall be opened. 9Or what man is there among you, of whom if his son shall ask bread, will he reach him a stone? 10 Or if he shall ask him a fish, will he reach him a serpent? 11 If you then being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children:
how much more will your Father who is in heaven, give good things to them that
ask him?
Fix our “carnal” mindset and explain this verse, apparently my reading and comprehension skills aren’t as developed as yours.
If God isn’t the one who “reveals”; who does!
If God doesn’t know what is in darkness; who/what is in this particular darkness?
If light isn’t a characteristic of God; who/what is this light?
Me: Fine, you asked the above questions!
In my post, I suggested cutting and pasting my wording, simply in order to be both efficient and also aware of what specifically you are referring to, especially the fact that instead of answering my question you opted to ask three more questions.
Thus here is my wording again to make it clear enough what we are specifically talking about:
You: You then go on to claim “darkness” is a title?!?!?
Me: For you, it isn’t, A CARNAL MINDED PERSON, with every respect.
For me just read hereunder!
Psalm 18:11He made DARKNESS his secret place;….
2 Chronicles 6:1Then said Solomon, The LORD hath said that he would dwell in
the thick darkness.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness,Daniel 2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things:
he knoweth what is in the darkness,
and the light dwelleth with him.You: Have you completely gone off the deep end?
Darkness ISN’T a title, it’s the lack of light,
Me: Now just explain WHAT DARKNESS IS in the above scriptures, especially
THE LAST ONE, please
You: Because you wanted me to focus on Daniel 2:22, that is all I will speak on:
“He reveals the deep and the hidden things;
Me: WHO REVEALS?
You: he knows what is in the darkness,
Me: WHO IS, AND WHAT IS HIDDEN IN THE ABOVE PARTICULAR DARKNESS?
You: and the light dwells with him.”
Me: ATTENTION PLEASE:
WITH WHOM DWELLS THE LIGHT?
You: As a spiritual understanding,
Carmel minded person,
with every respect, you have come to the conclusion that“darkness” in this passage is a title.
Now read my question again please:
Me: Now just explain WHAT DARKNESS IS in the above scriptures, especially
THE LAST ONE, please
NOW, IN VIEW OF THE ABOVE, I expected your answer not MORE QUESTIONS HEREUNDER:
You: If God isn’t the one who “reveals”; who does!
Me: KID’S STUFF again!
If God doesn’t know what is in darkness; who/what is in this particular darkness?
Me: KID’S STUFF again!
If light isn’t a characteristic of God; who/what is this light?
Me: KID’S STUFF again!
AS SOON AS YOU ANSWER MY QUESTION, I MEAN EXPLAIN WHAT THE WORD “DARKNESS” IS IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE, TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION THAT YOU STUDIED WELL THE RELATED SCRIPTURE, I AM NOT IN THE POSITION TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS ABOVE, SINCE IT IS PRECISELY YOUR ANSWER THAT WOULD EVENTUALLY DETERMINE MY ANSWER IN RELATION TO YOUR QUESTIONS ABOVE!
You: Read:
Job 12:22 “He reveals MYSTERIES from the darkness andbrings the DEEP DARKNESS into LIGHT.”
You: Please enlighten all of us with your “super spiritual” thinking.
FIRST AND FOREMOST, IT IS NOT MY SUPER SPIRITUAL THINKING AT ALL, BUT AS I SAID, LGHT FOM ABOVE,
AS SIMPLE AS THAT
THROUGH FAITH……..
REFLECT PLEASE, TWO DARKNESS IN THE ABOVE VERSE YOU POSTED ARE MENTIONED,
THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT AND OPPOSING (TITLES)DARKNESSES!
ONE A MERE DARKNESS, IN A WAY, and
ONE A DEEP DARKNESS!
NOW GOD BRINGS THIS DEEP DARKNESS INTO
LIGHT!
ONE DOWN!
ENOUGH TO MAKE YOU PONDER AND ACQUIRE
THE TRUTH
YOU SIMPLY ARE REJECTING!
John 14:6 Jesus saith to him:
I am the way,
and the truth,
and the life.
No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
John 12:46I am come a light into the world;
that whosoever believeth in me,
may not remain in darkness.
IS DARKNESS A TITLE IN THE ABOVE?
Job 26:6 “Sheol is naked before God, and Abaddon hath no covering.”
Psalm 36:9 “For with You is the fountain of life; In Your light we see light.”
You: You read this chapter “more than you think”; I don’t think you read the chapter at all, because the only thing you have pulled out is verse 22 and concluded there is something deeper to be had. Just read the words, Daniel is simply praising God.
Are you seriously getting Jesus out of this single passage and somehow Daniel is prophesying about it?!?
That’s nuts!
What you are doing isn’t “spiritual” awareness of God’s Word,
it’s twisting HIS word to get your belief to say what you want it to.
WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!!!
Matthew 7:6 Give not that which is holy to dogs;
neither cast ye your pearls before swine,
lest perhaps they trample them under their feet, and turning upon you,
they tear you.
You: ME: Fascinating reply. First, we aren’t pulling the same rope; I have no idea what you are pulling at.
I’m “darkness” and you’re “light”,
it’s a good thing your ego isn’t to big; you may not be able to see the computer screen tomorrow.
AGAIN YOUR PERCEPTION IS SIMPLY CORRUPTED, AND YOU ARE LOOKING AT THE WORD DARKNESS ONLY AS EVIL!
GOD IS ALSO DARKNESS!
GOD LIVES IN DARKNESS!
Psalm 139:11
11And I said: Perhaps darkness shall cover me: and night shall be my light in my pleasures.
12But darkness shall not be dark to thee, and night shall be light as day: the darkness thereof, and the light thereof are alike to thee.
The world is “darkness” in relation to GOD’S WORK!
Job 12:22 “He reveals MYSTERIES from the darkness and
brings the DEEP DARKNESS into LIGHT.”
John 7:7 The world cannot hate you;
but me it hateth:
because I give testimony of it,
that the works thereof are evil.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
I am super confused by what you’re actually looking for. I have already explained what I believe is happening in these verses. For some reason you believe there is more. All I read is Daniel praising God for revealing a dream that was “hidden.” Again, apparently my reading and comprehension skills pale to yours.
Daniel 2:22 He reveals the deep and the hidden things; he knows what is in the darkness, and the light dwells with him.
You keep asking what the “darkness” is as if it is a “being” and I told you it’s the lack of light. Is this not good enough for you? The “darkness” spoken of in Daniel is the same “darkness” spoken of in Gen 1:2 and the first thing God created was “light.” Then God separated the “light” from the “darkness.” What exactly are you looking for?!?
Then you somehow believe because the “light” is “with” God that it too is a separate being. God is “light”; just like a lamp illuminates a room, what can be hidden from God? This would then make “light” a characteristic of God.
This now twice I have answered your question of what the “darkness” means. What more can I say before you enlighten us with you vast “wisdom” that you claim comes from above? To which I must ask, where in the OT does it state the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind? Why won’t you answer that question?
Hate to break it to you, not one of those verses cited spoke of a “sacrificed” Messiah. Keep guessing. Start in chapter 41 and read through 55, then tell me who the “servant” is. If you don’t read this section of Isaiah, placing it in the context it was written, you’re understanding is limited to what you have been told it says. You’re simply parroting what you have been told to believe.
Lol. If I had an enemy and I had a plan to defeat him within the laws that I myself set, then I wouldn’t be stupid enough to divulge that plan verbatim like you are expecting. Think man think. I would speak the truth in a code to those who have the ability to read that code so that they wouldn’t be taken by surprise like my enemy would. This is how much of scripture works. The wicked will not understand. If you do not understand, then it is not my fault, only yours. This by the way is also how war works. Further, scripture often talks in context, but you need to see where it also refers to others and apply what it is saying accordingly.
So now I am “wicked” because I don’t have the same belief as you concerning the verses you cited?!?! Before you imply this accusation, reread the above section. If after reading you still believe it’s talking about Jesus, then you will have a series of questions you will need to answer.
Incorrect. I don’t make such judgements from my own standards. If scripture says it, and you fit the bill, then that is not me imposing my own standards on you is it?
Jesus wouldn’t have been crucified if they knew he was actually the Messiah; who were the Jews expecting in their Messiah? What events were suppose to happen for the Messiah to show up? What was the Messiah suppose to do when he showed up? None of these questions can be answered by looking in the NT, you need to go back to the OT.
Precisely why he was crucified. They were blind and did the will of God without realising it.
You tell me to think; that is exactly what I have been doing. I have been comparing “prophetic quotes” in the NT to where it was referenced in the OT and they are completely taken out of context or have been reworded…that’s deception. These so called “prophecies”, because it “sounds like” what happened to Jesus, have been rubber stamped and called prophecy that points to Jesus, when they clearly don’t.
Does Satan read scripture? Should God spell it all out so he can ruin God’s plan? The wicked will not understand. It is written in code so to speak.
This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
Here’s something to “think” about, why is virtually every religion arguing over what the NT says and then claiming they’re right and everyone else is wrong. This isn’t unity, but chaos. This website is the perfect example of this. We’re not discussing truths, we’re arguing over religious beliefs.
Because there is one truth and lies are countless. So there will always be people that represent a lie of some kind. But people who love truth will know the truth. You have to love the truth and Jesus Christ is the truth.
and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
If you want more to start “thinking” about:
When did God ever require a human sacrifice? “Pagans” did that.
Due to His holiness, God decreed the need for such sacrifices, as humanity, being sinners, required a significant means to have their sins forgiven and restore their connection with God. Those who sought a genuine relationship with God and desired to commune with Him would, through faith, present these sacrifices as a means to establish that bond and fellowship with Him. Note, the sacrifice he accepted was that of animals not humans. Of course, God ultimately send the lamb of God to be sacrificed because it was one sacrifice that would end all other sacrifice. It is an eternal sacrifice that can cover all sin. Will you let the lamb of God’s sacrifice cover your sin or do you prefer not to deal with your sin, thereby being responsible yourself for it? Bear in mind that the following is written:
The person who sins will die.
God sent the messiah to save you by becoming the lamb of God and being sacrificed once and for all. He died in your place and thereby satisfying the law that sin brings death. God then resurrected him from the dead and so it will be a resurrection of glory for all those in the messiah. I think that in the realm of eternity, that rebellion would happen eventually to a world and so God had this plan worked out from the foundation of the world as it is written.
Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. This man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ; And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God
Why does Christianity use fear to convert people? If you don’t accept Jesus as your savior, you’re going to Hell.
I’m not a fan of mainstream religion. I am also not a fan of the mainstream media. But I love the truth and so am not against religion nor media. Just the mainstream because the world itself is the mainstream and the world is the enemy of those who belong to God’s kingdom. After all, the world runs on money and for money, men will do evil.
Explain Isa 42:8 when compared to John 13:31-32; Matt 16:27; Mark 8:38; Luke 9:26. Something is amiss; did our unchanging God, change?
No time to even look at this now. Pose the question to me again if I haven’t given an answer in the next week or so.
YOU: “If I had an enemy and I had a plan to defeat him within the laws that I myself set, then I wouldn’t be stupid enough to divulge that plan verbatim like you are expecting.”
ME: Are you saying “Satan” was to stupid to understand what was written in the OT?!?! Now there’s a good laugh! What exactly was “hidden” in the OT that man was not capable of understanding at the time it was written?
YOU: “If scripture says it, and you fit the bill, then that is not me imposing my own standards on you is it?”
ME: However, it was YOU who implied I was “wicked” by using scripture. Own it!
YOU: “They were blind and did the will of God without realizing it.”
ME: You still have produced no scripture stating the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind from the OT. Paul used simple, plain language in his statement and there is NOTHING in the OT that states the messiah was to die for the sins of mankind. Who is the messiah the Jews are waiting for? The OT does talk about a messiah…is the Jewish messiah the same as the Christian messiah?
YOU: “Should God spell it all out so he can ruin God’s plan?”
ME: Please enlighten me, who is able to “ruin God’s plan”; are you saying God has no idea how it’s going to end? To say “Satan” could “ruin” God’s plan; is to say God isn’t all knowing and small.
YOU: “people who love truth will know the truth.”
ME: When everyone believes what they believe is truth, you end up with 30,000 different religions; then is it “truth” or is it “beliefs”?
YOU: “God sent the messiah to save you by becoming the lamb of God and being sacrificed once and for all.”
ME: Explain:
Ps 51:16 “For You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; You take no pleasure in burnt offerings.” So what does God want; “17. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and a contrite heart”
Hosea 6:6 “For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and the knowledge of God, rather than burnt offerings.” Here God desires “mercy and knowledge” and not “sacrifices and burnt offerings.”
It seems the OT and NT are in conflict; how can this be justified away to make them agree? Is it time to reevaluate what Christianity is saying?
YOU: “I’m not a fan of mainstream religion.”
ME: Jesus taught those who disbelieve will be condemned; interpretation: believe in “me” to live for eternity; if not, be tormented for eternity, is this love or fear?
Don’t know the period means; if you sent something, it didn’t come through.
Desire Truth, you said…….> If you want more to start “thinking” about:
When did God ever require a human sacrifice? “Pagans” did that.
My response would be…….>Did God ask ABRAHAM to sacrifice his Son? You see sacrifice is a sign of your faith , Jesus sacrificed himself to “demonstrate”, what God the Father requires of us all. He didn’t die to pay off our sin debt, but to show us All what is required of us all.
It is in that “sense”,Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, he is the lamb of God, sacrificed for, OR , “because of”, the sins of the world.
Jesus’ “obedience ” through “FAITH” in GOD , WAS to “demonstrate ” I say, to us all what is required to have a right relationship with GOD the Father. ABRAHAM was wiling to make that sacrifice of “obedience” of his Son Issac, which “demonstrated” his love and obedience to God, therefore he is called the Father of the “FAITHFUL “.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth……….gene
@Gene,
What about what I wrote concerning Isa 53?
I knew someone would respond with the Abraham/Isaac “event.” Yet, Isaac wasn’t sacrificed; this was a test by God. Isaac’s blood wasn’t spilled on an alter, so there was no sacrifice done. God tested, Abraham passed, and his reward was: Gen 22 “17. That I will surely bless you, and I will greatly multiply your seed as the stars of the heavens and as the sand that is on the seashore, and your descendants will inherit the cities of their enemies. 18. And through your children shall be blessed all the nations of the world, because you hearkened to My voice.”
YOU: “Jesus sacrificed himself to “demonstrate”, what God the Father requires of us all.”
ME: Where in scripture does God tell us we are to “sacrifice” ourselves? This has to be in the OT, the NT wasn’t around for another 400 years after Jesus and the OT is what the apostles “taught” from.
YOU: “It is in that “sense”, Jesus died for the sins of the entire world, he is the lamb of God, sacrificed for, OR , “because of”, the sins of the world.”
ME: Feel like I am going in a circle with this question, were in the OT does it state Jesus (the messiah) was to die for/because of the sins of the entire world? Why can’t anyone answer this without distorting scripture?
I have another exercise for you, hopefully you did the last one:
I would like you to read John 19:31-37, this way everything will be in context, but focus on verses 36 & 37. These two verses are said to be fulfillment of scripture with verse 36 referring back to Exodus 12:46 and verse 37 referring back to Zech 12:10. Please read them and explain how these OT passages apply to Jesus; but, don’t just read the single verse, read the surround verses also.
Desire Truth………Jesus said……> Luk 9:22 ..>The son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and “BE SLAIN” , and be raised the third day.” And again in Matt…..>“if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up “his cross”, and follow me. 25, ” for (or because) whosoever will save his life, shall lose it, and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.” Desire Truth, Are you now starting to reject Jesus as those Old Testament blind Jew’s did and still do?
And also remember. It also says, “without a sacrifice there is no forgiveness of sins”. We must all come to the point that we are willing to sacrifice our own lives to the “Will” of God the father, exactly as Jesus and his disciples did. IMO.
As far as you question on Isaiah 53 goes , please tell us who is the “we” and the “our” mentioned there are? You should understand that they could not be the ones the prophesy was addressing.
peace an love to you and yours Desire Truth……….gene
@Gene,
I have already explained who is speaking where in the fourth “Servant Song” in post #943966. The shocked nations are speaking in verses 1-9 and giving their explanation why the Israelite nation suffered. The nations are the “our” and “we.” Simple! But to understand it you have to unlearn what you have been told. You have to apply the words in the context they have been written. You MUST read the enter “Servant Song.”
You quote Luke 9:22, here again, Jesus was to be slain and be raised on the third day. Paul states the same thing in I Corinthians 15 and says “according to scripture.” This means it is written in the OT, produce such scripture or was Paul quoting Luke?
My conclusions have nothing to do with “blind Jews”; my conclusions stem from wanting the truth and not relying on a “pastor” to tell me what to believe and everyone who states they don’t, is lying. There is nothing anyone believes that hasn’t put there by someone else – myself included. The difference is I’m asking questions because the “narrative” coming from Christianity doesn’t make sense.
Did you look at the John 19 passage and compare what John says to what the OT says? Judging from your response to the “our” and “we”, my guess is no. How shocked would you be to find out a majority of the OT quotes in the NT have been modified? I’m not talking word nuances, but complete modification. Words being stripped away and new ones added in. The worst book that does this is Hebrews; who’s author is unknown. We have know idea who wrote this book, but because it has this “Christology” in it, we’ll include it too. A book that wasn’t in the original cannon. How many modifications are acceptable and still call the NT the “inspired word of God”?
You: Danny, Danny, Danny, you still haven’t answered the question of where it states in the OT the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind.
Me: Why are you lying? I gave you Isaiah 53!
@Danny
You have yet to explain why this chapter is talking about the Messiah. Do that first before you call me a liar. I did offer an explanation on what’s happening in Isa 53 and have explained it isn’t speaking about the Messiah; post #943966. Where are your responses?
The reality is, you haven’t told me where it states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind; you have stated where you have been told it sounds like it’s speaking of a messiah. Why is this the only place in the entirety of the OT people have for their proof of the “Messiah dying for the sins of mankind”?
Paul gave two things that “according to scripture” the Messiah was to do: “die for the sins of mankind” and “be buried and then raised up on the third day.” Now give me both…I won’t hold my breath.
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