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@ Berean,
Why do you keep avoiding the question?!? You keep repeating Jesus had to died for our sins and Paul states “according to scripture” (written in the old testament); yet I haven’t found the verse that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind. This creates a HUGE problem for “christianity” if the verse doesn’t exist, this is what “christianity” is about!
We have been over Isa 53 and you definitely DON’T want to get into Daniel – once again not applying your quoted verses in the context they are written. I will say this about Daniel, you have to know Jewish history to understand what’s going on, especially for chapter 9. In verse 2 we are given a hint to what is happening.
Be your name or change it!
@ desire Truth
yet I haven’t found the verse that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind
Me
The reason is that sadly you have gone blind, and you think you see…
For my part, I said what I had to tell you, and I will say no more.
Carmel……..JESUS IS BOTH, THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF David, I showed you how he was by scripture the Root from the family line of Jesse, and so was king David, and I can produce scripture that proves he was from the linage of King David also. Never mind that JODI produced them already about ten or twenty time here. But non the less let me repeat it ……GOD SAID, to King David, (not me) ………“And it shall come to pass, when thy days expire that you must go to be with your fathers, that I will raise up “YOUR SEED” after you, which shall be of “THY SONS”(and offspring) AND I WILL ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM”. He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne “FOREVER” . 1 ch 17:11-12
So Jesus is “both”. ” THE ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID, exactly as he said he “IS’. There is no “mystery’” there , only you false teachers try to make it be some kind of mystery.
As I said Carmel you lack the ability to put scriptures together properly , if you were guided by the Spirit of truth” you would know these things.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Carmel……..JESUS IS BOTH, THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF David, I showed you how he was by scripture the Root from the family line of Jesse, and so was king David, and I can produce scripture that proves he was from the linage of King David also. Never mind that JODI produced them already about ten or twenty time here. But non the less let me repeat it ……GOD SAID, to King David, (not me) ………“And it shall come to pass, when thy days expire that you must go to be with your fathers, that I will raise up “YOUR SEED” after you, which shall be of “THY SONS”(and offspring) AND I WILL ESTABLISH HIS KINGDOM”. He shall build me an house, and I will establish his throne “FOREVER” . 1 ch 17:11-12
So Jesus is “both”. ” THE ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID, exactly as he said he “IS’. There is no “mystery’” there , only you false teachers try to make it be some kind of mystery.
As I said Carmel you lack the ability to put scriptures together properly , if you were guided by the Spirit of truth” you would know these things.
peace and love to you and yours……….gene
The New Testament identifies Jesus as the Servant of the LORD.
Matthew 12:15-21
15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great
multitudes followed him, and he healed them all; 16 And charged them that they should
not make him known: 17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the
prophet, saying, 18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my
soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the
Gentiles. 19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the
streets. 20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till
he send forth judgment unto victory. 21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.End of story.
yet I haven’t found the verse that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?
2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
3 He was despised and rejected by mankind,
a man of suffering, and familiar with pain.
Like one from whom people hide their faces
he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
4 Surely he took up our pain
and bore our suffering,
yet we considered him punished by God,
stricken by him, and afflicted.
5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was on him,
and by his wounds we are healed.
6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to our own way;
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.
7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before its shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
Yet who of his generation protested?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was punished.
9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the Lord makes his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.Yes, I know that deniers of the Son of God will say this verse is talking about Israel, but I think that is a very weak argument. Jesus bore the sins of many, not Israel.
I Peter 2
24 “Who his own self bore our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes you were healed”
There is no man, teacher, prophet or country that can purchase our very lives or healing by dying for us. Only Jesus Christ.
@ Proclaimer,
Did you even read the proceeding chapters beginning in chapter 41? If you haven’t, all you are doing is peddling the lies of the church, cherry picking “truth.” Who’s speaking in verse 1? Then to call me a denier of the Son of God because I say chapter 53 isn’t a reference to Jesus; if Jesus is in 53, he is also in 41(chosen and not cast away), 42 (deaf and blind), 43 (chosen), 44 (chosen), 45 (chosen), 49 (in whom God will show HIS glory, will reestablish the tribes of Jacob and preserve Israel, be a light to the nations, and be God’s salvation to the ends of the world), 52 (will succeed in reestablishing the tribes and preserving Israel AND be God’s light to the world). Except in these chapters it’s referring to Jacob/Israel; BUT in 53 it’s Jesus. And I’m the denier, WAKE UP! Start putting scripture into context that it was written! Like I told Danny, Page 1207 Post #943444, read it!
You haven’t produced the old testament verse that states the Messiah was to die for mankind’s sins. Paul said it, now produce it!
“There is no man, teacher, prophet or country that can purchase our very lives or healing by dying for us. Only Jesus Christ.”
AMEN!
Hi Proclaimer,
You: Yes, I know that deniers of the Son of God will say this verse is talking about Israel,
but I think that is a very weak argument.
Jesus bore the sins of many, not Israel.
Me: PROCLAIMER, YES DEFINITELY A WEAK ARGUMENT FOR “SURE”
WHY FOR SURE?
FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WAS
SPIRITUALLY DEAD!
NOW, THE QUESTION THAT EVERY CHRISTIAN AND A JEW SHOULD ASK THEMSELVES, CONSIDERING THAT JESUS IS
“THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD,
BOTH OF THE OT.
“SPIRITUALLY DEAD” HENCE,
SPIRITUALLY HIDDEN, IN THE ENTIRE SCRIPTURE OF THE OT. ITSELF, CONFIRMED BY JESUS HIMSELF,
AND CONSEQUENTLY ALSO,
AND OF THE NT.
PURPOSELY PHYSICALLY MANIFESTED ON EARTH PRECISELY
THE TRUTH,
MORE APPROPRIATE:
THE TRUE ISRAEL,
MORE ACCURATE, FOR THE SAKE OF TRUTH
BOTH THE OT AND THE NT,
THE FIRST AND THE LAST!
BOTH SPIRITUAL AND PHYSICAL IN JESUS THE MAN I REPEAT:
“THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD,
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH,
THE SON OF MAN,
THUS THE QUESTION IS:
WHO IS THE TRUE ISRAEL?
AFTER ALL THE ACTUAL NAME IS ALSO
SPIRITUAL; nothing of this earth!
GIVEN BY A MYSTERIOUS BEING!
OBVIOUSLY, HUMANS WERE SPIRITUALLY DEAD AND NEVER IN A POSITION TO DISTINGUISH
THE ONLY TRUE GOD!
HENCE EITHER BY
THE TRUE GOD OR
THE LIER GOD OF THIS WORLD!
THE FACT THAT IT IS MENTIONED
“TWICE”
Genesis 32:He remained alone:
and behold a man wrestled with him till morning.
25And when he saw that he could not overcome him, he touched the sinew of his thigh, and forthwith it shrank.
26And he said to him: Let me go, for it is break of day.
He answered: I will not let thee go except thou bless me. 27And he said: What is thy name? He answered: Jacob. 28But he said:
Thy name shall not be called Jacob, but Israel:
for if thou hast been strong against God,
how much more shalt thou prevail against men?
29Jacob asked him, Tell me by what name art thou called? He answered:
Why dost thou ask my name?
And he blessed him in the same place. 30And Jacob called the name of the place Phanuel, saying:
I have seen God face to face,
and my soul has been saved.
Genesis 35:9
And God appeared again to Jacob, after he returned from Mesopotamia of Syria, and he blessed him, 10Saying:
Thou shalt not be called anymore Jacob,
but Israel shall be thy name.
And he called him Israel.
I REPEAT:
WHO IS THE TRUE ISRAEL?
JESUS IS THE ONLY TRUTH ON EARTH!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
To all…….Exactly what scripture says Jesus “PAID”, “FOR”, our sins. Saying someone “BORE”our sins, is not the same as saying he DIED for them. Fact is , Jesus “BORE” the sins of the whole world, because it was the sin in the world that killed him, another fact is, it was “GOD THE FATHER “HIMSELF” that put Jesus to the death, Or don’t you believe scripture says……(not me)…..” GOD”, so loved the world the “HE” “GAVE” his only (uniquely) begotten son , that whosoever believes in him “SHOULD NOT” parish. It doesn’t say “WILL NOT”, DOES IT ? Many believe in Jesus and preach him, but are workers of iniquity, and will be rejected by him when he returns, just as he said would happen, not a few, but “many”.
Jesus drank the cup that the FATHER GAVE HIM TO DRINK, which was the cup of death on the cross i.e. tree. Jesus did not want to die, he died as an example of what we must also BE WILLING to do in order to be accepted by GOD THE FATHER, Jesus is our example of what we must become , God the Father is our “SAVIOR ” and JESUS’ SAVIOR TOO.Let’s not kid ourselves, we must all give an account of our sins before our, and Jesus’ GOD .
This idea that Jesus “PAID OFF” our sin debt for US, by all these false teachers is a “LIE”.
peace and love to you all and yours ……….gene
You didn’t address Matthew 12:15-21 👉 Isaiah 42:1-4
There is no man, teacher, prophet or country that can purchase our very lives or healing by dying for us. Only Jesus Christ.
Amen. At least we can agree on something.
@ Danny,
When are you planning on answering my question? Everyone demands I answer theirs, but mine are ignored or evaded.
For giggles let’s say Isa 53 is a reference to Jesus, scripture is suppose to “confirm itself”; what is the confirming verse that states the Messiah was to die for the sins of mankind? We are so confident we are correct, this should be simple…
Hi Gene,
You Carmel……..
JESUS IS BOTH, THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF David,
Me: Gene, NO ONE IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE IS
BOTH THE ROOT OF A FAMILY LINE,
THE BEGINNING,
AND ALSO THE OFFSPRING OF ANOTHER FROM THAT SAME FAMILY LINE! OK?
NOW Gene, UNLESS YOU ACCEPT THAT PURE TRUTH,
IT IS MORE THAN A MYSTERY TO YOU, OR ELSE
YOU ARE SIMPLY A STUBBORN-HEADED PERSON!
JUST READ AGAIN WHAT YOU SAID ABOUT YOURSELF IN A PREVIOUS POST:# 943523
Carmel……..my “ROOT” is from the Balthrop family line,
ME: BUT YOU ARE NOT “THE ROOT” OF THE BALTHROP family line,
BALTHROP IS THE ROOT, THE BEGINNING!
You: and I am the “OFFSPRING ” OF ANDREW .
THERE YOU ARE, STUBBORN-HEADED PERSON!
YOU ARE “ONLY”
THE OFFSPRING OF ANDREW AND BOTH OF YOU
FROM THE ROOT OF BALTHROP!
SO BALTHROP “THE BEGINNING, AND THE FIRST PERSON” OF YOUR FAMILY LINE IS
THE ROOT!
NONE ELSE FROM YOUR FAMILY LINE!
NOW READ AGAIN YOUR CONFIRMATION!
You:
Carmel……..
JESUS IS BOTH THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF David,
You: I showed you
how he was by scripture
the Root from the family line of Jesse,
and so was King David,
NO, YOU DIDN’T!
WHAT’S THE USE OF PRODUCING TWISTED SCRIPTURE ABOVE SIMPLY TO QUENCH YOUR THIRST?
READ AGAIN YOUR OWN TWISTING!
You: he was by scripture the Root
from
the family line of Jesse,
NOW READ THE SCRIPTURE!
And in that day there shall be
a root of Jesse,…
JESUS IS NOT the Root “FROM” the family line of Jesse,
JESUS IS THE ROOT OF JESSE, AND
THE ROOT OF THE FAMILY LINE OF JESSE
JESUS PREEXISTED BEFORE JESSE, THE FIRST AND THE BEGINNING OF THE FAMILY LINE OF JESSE!
You: and so was King David,
AGAIN KING DAVID IS NEITHER THE ROOT OF JESSE NOR
THE ROOT OF THE FAMILY LINE OF JESSE,
HE IS THE SON AND OFFSPRING OF JESSE.
You: and I can produce scripture that proves he was from
the linage of King David also.
OUR ARGUMENT IS NOT ABOUT THAT.NO.
IT IS PART OF AND CLEAR IN THE STATEMENT BY JESUS, YOU YOURSELF FINALLY ADMITTED AND PRODUCED ABOVE: READ AGAIN:
You Carmel……..
JESUS IS BOTH THE ROOT AND THE OFFSPRING OF David,
WHAT YOU HAVE TO ADMIT IS THAT
NO ONE IN THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE IS LIKE JESUS!
BOTH THE ROOT,
THE BEGINNING, THE FIRST, PREEXISTED,
AND ALSO
THE OFFSPRING OF DAVID!
NONE OF DAVID’S OFFSPRING IS ALSO
DAVID’S ROOT. Mr. GENIOUS!
THE ROOT IS ALWAYS THE BEGINNING OF ALL FRUITS!
OR MORE LIKE IT
MR. STUBBORN-HEADED.
CONFIRMED HEREUNDER:
YOU: So Jesus is “both”. ” THE ROOT AND OFFSPRING OF DAVID, exactly as he said he “IS’.
There is no “mystery’” there ,
only you false teachers try to make it be some kind of mystery.
ME: MORE THAN A MYSTERY TO YOU!
YOU SEE AND DO NOT PERCEIVE!
YOU HEAR AND DO NOT COMPREHEND!
YOU READ AND DO NOT UNDERSTAND!
Me: As you say, Gene,
you lack the ability to put scriptures together properly,
if you were guided by the Spirit of truth” you would know these things.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi to all
Sir William Ramsay, a renowned archeologist of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, set out to disprove the historicity of the New Testament. Traveling to Asia Minor, he began to uncover evidence. It wasn’t what he expected. Each dig provided further indication that the historical accounts of the New Testament were very accurate.
Overwhelmed and convicted by the mountain of evidence, Sir Ramsay eventually became a Christian.
There were a multitude of witnesses to verify the resurrection of Christ. Mary saw and spoke with Him. Peter and the other disciples saw Him, spoke with Him, touched Him, and even ate with Him on multiple occasions. Later, more 500 of His followers saw Him at one time.
Il y avait une multitude de témoins pour vérifier la résurrection de Christ. Marie l’a vu et a parlé avec lui. Pierre et les autres disciples l’ont vu, lui ont parlé, l’ont touché et ont même mangé avec lui à plusieurs reprises. Plus tard, plus de 500 de ses disciples l’ont vu en même temps.
Why is it so important to be convinced of the resurrection of Jesus? Paul explains it this way: “And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished” (1 Corinthians 15:17, 18).
Without the resurrection of Christ, the future would be hopeless and being a Christian would be pointless. Paul says that if we have hope in Jesus just in this life, “we are of all men the most pitiable” (verse 19).
But we are convinced—through the witnesses in Scripture and through our own life-transforming experiences—that Jesus lives. In Him, our future is secure.
From Amazing facts
God bless
Carmel…….I am of the “root” of the Balthrop family, and also the “offspring” of ANDREW, JUST THAT SIMPLE. no mystery, no tricks, no deceptions, simple the truth.
JESUS IS OF or from ( the root of Jesse’s family line), he is also the offspring of David, who also is a root of Jesse himself, as the scriptures, I and Jodi have posted, clearly shows he is both those things. JESUS IS THE ROOT “AND” OFFSPRING OF David. Because he is from the family line of Jesse, just as the scriptures I have posted clearly shows.
No matter how much you rant and rave trying to twist that clear fact up, doesn’t change anything.
Who, Jesus said he was stays the same . Your cherry picking scriptures doesn’t change a thing, but only shows how really corrupt and indoctrinated in false teachings you really are. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………gene
Desire Truth……..They will never answer you posts honestly, because they have to change the simple truth into a form of “mystery religion”, they preach. They do not have a true love for the truth in them, and as a result remain deluded in their minds, just as said in “2 Ths 2 “.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth………gene
Carmel you said…….”THE ROOT IS ALWAYS THE BEGINNING OF ALL FRUITS!”
Wrong, again, The Seed is!
peace and love to you and yours………gene
Gene
You
They will never answer you posts honestly, because they have to change the simple truth into a form of “mystery religion”, they preach.
Me
Paul wrote
For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
He was definitely referring to Isaiah, especially Isaiah 53.
So stop babbling emptyly, you’re wasting your time Fighting AGAINST GOD AND HIS CHRIST.
You have already been given that answer.
You don’t want the truth.
Anyway, you call yourself “desiretruth” yet you reject the one
who is the truth Himself. What a shame!
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6
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