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“This is what the Jews believed concerning the Messiah, from Everyman’s Talmud: The Major Teachings of Rabbinic Sages (pg347):
‘the sending of the Messiah was part of the Creator’s plan at the inception of the Universe.’
‘From the beginning of the creation of the world king Messiah was born, for he entered the mind (of God) before even the world was created’.
‘On one point the Rabbis were unanimous, he [Messiah] would be just a human being divinely appointed to carry out an allotted task.’
Are you going to refute the Jewish mind? Prove scripturally what I have said is wrong!”
Me
The eminent Rabi Louis Finkelstein, the head of The Jewish Theological Seminary
of America, often referred to as “The Vatican of Judaism”, in his Foreword to his First Edition of his world famous classic “The Pharisees, The Sociological
Background of Their Faith”, on page XXI states:
“… Judaism . . . Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval
Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But
throughout these changes in name … the spirit of the ancient Pharisees survives,
unaltered … From Palestine to Babylonia; from Babylonia to North Africa, Italy,
Spain, France and Germany; from these to Poland, Russia, and eastern Europe
generally, ancient Pharisaism has wandered “demonstrates the enduring importance
which attaches to Pharisaism as a religious movement …”What did Jesus have to say about the religion of the Pharisees? Jesus said, they masqueraded
as religious men who have the oracles of God, but they were really irreligious, teaching instead the
doctrines of men.
Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, Why do
thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when
they eat bread. But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the
commandment of God by your tradition? For God commanded, saying, Honour
thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever
thou mightest be profited by me; And honour not his father or his mother, he shall
be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your
tradition. Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, This people
draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their
heart is far from me. But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the
commandments of men. (Matthew 15:1-9 AV)
To what traditions was Jesus referring when he upbraided the Pharisees for using them to
transgress and replace the laws of God? Can we find out about those traditions today? Yes; the
Talmud is a codification of the traditions of the scribes and Pharisees to which Jesus spoke. Michael
Rodkinson (M. Levi Frumkin), who wrote the first English translation of the Babylonian Talmud,
states the following in his book The History of the Talmud:
Is the literature that Jesus was familiar with in his early years yet in existence in the
world? Is it possible for us to get at it? To such inquiries the learned class of Jewish
rabbis answer by holding up the Talmud . The Talmud then, is the written form
of that which, in the time of Jesus, was called the Traditions of the Elders, and
to which he makes frequent allusions.
During the time of Christ the Scribes and Pharisees were constantly heckling and challenging
Jesus, and it was they who plotted his crucifixion. Read what Jesus had to say to those Jews.Woe unto you, scribes and
Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but
within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that
which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. Woe
unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres,
which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and
of all uncleanness. Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within
ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity. Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees,
hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres
of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not
have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be
witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how
can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matthew 23:23-33 AV)
Why would Jesus use such strong language against the Pharisees and scribes? To answer that
we should examine some of the Talmudic traditions that have developed over the years. For starters,
the Talmudic Jews have a hatred for Gentiles. To them Gentiles are vile animals, who are unclean
and have no legal rights.
Citing Folio 114b of the Tractate Baba Mezi’a from the Babylonian Talmud, The Jewish
Encyclopedia, states that the Talmud only considers Jews as men; Gentiles are categorized in the Talmud as barbarians.662 Elizabeth Dilling, in her book The Jewish Religion: Its Influence Today,
explains the racial view adopted by Jews as codified in their Talmud:
The basic Talmudic doctrine includes more than a “super-race” complex. It is an
“only” race concept. The non-Jew thus ranks as an animal, has no property rights and
no legal rights under any code whatever. If lies, bribes or kicks are necessary to get
non-Jews under control – that is legitimate. There is only one “sin,” and that is
anything which will frighten non-Jews and thus make it harder for the Jewish
“humans” to get them under control. “Milk the Gentile,” is the Talmudic rule, but
don’t get caught in such a way as to jeopardize Jewish interests. Summarized,
Talmudism is the quintessence of distilled hatred and discrimination – without cause, against non-Jews.To be continued if God want
Blessings
Desire Truth……..Welcome to my and Jodi’s world, maybe you can do a better job then we have, I have come to see over many years, that, “unless the LORD builds the house the weary builders (us) build in vain “. And also to them that have more shall be given, and them that have not, even what they think they have (shall be) taken away time.
peace and love to you and yours Desire Truth………gene
@ Berean,
You take off on a long dissertation on the Talmud and Pharisees and miss what I actually said. The quoting was only to show what the Jews believe.
Please explain Deut 18:15,18 and how we have a preexistent Christ.
Look up Hellenism, this thinking was infiltrating the early church.
@ desire Truth
You take off on a long dissertation on the Talmud and Pharisees and miss what I actually said. The quoting was only to show what the Jews believe.
Please explain Deut 18:15,18 and how we have a preexistent Christ. Look up Hellenism, this thinking was infiltrating the early church.
Me
Why rely on the Talmud and not on ALL THE SCRIPTURES?
IS PAUL NOT RELIABLE?
DOES IT NOT HAVE THE MIND OF GOD?
TALKING ABOUT CHRIST WITHOUT TAKING ACCOUNT OF THE APOSTLES CAN ONLY LEAD US INTO THE WALL?
I HAVE A QUESTION, DO YOU BELIEVE THE WHOLE BIBLE OR JUST A PART?
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:(2 Tim.3:16)
……
Début.18:15,18 DO NOT contradict the fact that CHRIST PRE-EXISTED AND WAS GOD IN THE BEGINNING.
AND What are you doing of Proverbs 30 :4?
Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name,👉 and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?👈
🙏
@ Berean,
Deut. 18:15 (Moses speaking) Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from your midst, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.
Deut. 18:17,18 Yahweh said to me (Moses), “They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him.
Curious how God raising up a prophet from their midst (nation of Israel), of their brothers, like Moses (had direct communication with God) is referring to a preexisting son in heaven. Explain!
The New Testament shows us clearly that Jesus Christ existed in the form of God and he emptied himself and came in the flesh. If we reject Jesus Christ as the Son of God, firstborn of all creation, messiah, and the Word of God, then we reject the New Testament. That is fine as we have free will to choose to believe or not. We can only choose for ourselves. I have chosen to believe in the Jesus Christ that the New Testament teaches. I believe it is further revelation and if you try to form your whole doctrine from the Old Testament, then you will not believe in Jesus Christ because he is the fulfilment of the old covenant. The old made way for the new but hasn’t done away with it. The old is not the full picture and never was. It leaves people with mysteries and the predicament of sin. The new fulfils all these outstanding issues. And it was planned this way.
As someone once said, if someone pays your speeding fine but you have no idea of the law, then you are not that thankful. But if you know the law and realise you have sinned, then you appreciate the messiah and the works that God has done through him.
Hi Jodi,
You: A man was to receive the Spirit of God and bring forth judgement to the Gentiles according to Isaiah.
Me: Jodi, Let’s READ THE TRUTH!
YOU SAID ABOVE:
A MAN WAS TO RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
NO Jodi, THAT’S YOUR CORRUPTED BELIEF AND REASONING I’M AFRAID!
HOW LONG I’VE BEEN TELLING YOU THAT THE SPIRIT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO JESUS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING? Read and accept the truth please:
Isaiah 42:11BEHOLD my servant, I will uphold him:
my elect, my soul DELIGHTS in him:
Notice the tense, it is the simple present tense, NOT FUTURE TENSE:
Jodi, We use the simple present tense when an action is happening right now, or when it happens regularly (or unceasingly, which is why it’s sometimes called present indefinite).
IN THE CASE ABOVE JESUS, THOUGH A SPIRIT, ALREADY CARRIED GOD’S SOUL!
THE HOLY GHOST!
(1) JESUS PRE-EXISTED Jodi!
Now let’s read and confirm this in other scripture:Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, and hear this:
I HAVE NOT spoken in secret FROM THE BEGINNING:
Jodi, THE ABOVE IS AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL!
Jesus! THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD is TALKING! Carry on reading please:
from the time before it was done,
Me: ….BEFORE CREATION WAS DONE/BEFORE THE BEGINNING WAS DONE!
I was there,
IN THE ABOVE, JESUS CONFIRMED TWO THINGS Jodi,ONE THAT HE IS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, AND
TWO THAT HE “HAS NOT” SPOKEN IN SECRET, FROM THE BEGINNING!
John1:1
Now look again at the tense please:I HAVE NOT spoken in secret FROM THE BEGINNING:
HAVE NOT!
PRESENT PERFECT!
Jodi, We use the present perfect:
for something that started in the past and continues in the present:
(2) JESUS PRE-EXISTED, Jodi,
Attention please, here comes THE TRUTH! Carry on reading Isiah 48:16,and now the Lord God HAS SENT ME, and HIS SPIRIT.
Now just read the second part of Isaiah 42 :1,I HAVE GIVEN MY SPIRIT upon HIM,
I SPELL THIS OUT FOR YOU:Isaiah 48:16,….. the Lord God HAS SENT ME, and HIS SPIRIT.
Isaiah 42 :1, ….. I HAVE GIVEN MY SPIRIT upon HIM,
BOTH SCRIPTURES ARE NOT ONLY SAYING AND REFERRING TO THE SAME TRUTH!BUT ALSO BOTH USE THE PRESENT PERFECT TENSE!
And we use the present perfect tense: for something that started in the past and continues in the present:
Jodi,
JESUS PRE-EXISTED, JESUS IS THE WORD SPOKEN OF GOD, AND JESUS HAD THE SPIRIT UPON HIM, FROM THE BEGINNING!
MORE PROOF!
Isaiah 49:1 Listen to me, you islands;
HEAR THIS, you distant nations:
Before I was born the Lord called me;
Jodi and Gene and those who are in harmony with your corrupted teaching,the above confirms that
GOD CALLED JESUS BEFORE HE WAS BORN!
(3) JESUS PRE-EXISTED Jodi!
DID YOU SEE IT? NO, YOU DON’T! LET’S GO BACK TO Isaiah 48:16 PLEASE ABOVE!Isaiah 48:16,….. the Lord God HAS SENT ME, and HIS SPIRIT.
Isaiah 49:1 ……Before I was born the Lord called me;
GOD THE FATHER CALLED JESUS AND SENT HIM AND HIS SPIRIT INTO THE WORLD!
Luke 1:35And the angel answering, said to her:
The HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee,
and the power of the MOST HIGH shall overshadow thee.
And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called
the Son of God.
Jody reading the above scripture we are aware that in Jesus’ conception,
ACCORDING TO Isaiah 49 ABOVE,
GOD CALLED JESUS! LET THERE BE LIGHT!
ACCORDING TO Isaiah 48 ABOVE
GOD SENT THE HOLY GHOST AND JESUS INTO THE WORLD, INTO MARYS’ UNIQUE WOMB Luke 1:46 above!
JESUS WAS BORN FIRST THE SON OF GOD AS A SPIRIT OF THE HOLY GHOST THROUGH MARY and THEN, THE SON OF MAN “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD FROM THE FATHER’S MOUTH:
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH!
Continue
Isaiah 49:1… from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.
DID YOU GET THIS Jodi?GOD IN THE HOLY GHOST WITHIN MARY’S UNIQUE WOMB SPOKE JESUS’ NAME! THEN WHAT?
JESUS WAS BORN AS A SPIRIT FULL OF LIGHT OUT OF MARY AND ANTICIPATED MOUNT TABOR.
THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD
Isaiah 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
Hebrews 4:12 For THE WORD of God is living and effectual, and more piercingthan any two edged sword;
Continue. Isaiah 49:2…..in the shadow of his hand he
HID ME;
John1:20The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him, and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sin of the world. 30This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me:because he was before me.
31 And I knew him not,
but that he may be MADE MANIFEST in Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.
32And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven, and he remained upon him.33And I knew him not;
but he who sent me to baptize with water, said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him,he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw,and I gave testimony,
that this IS the Son of God.Simple present tense
Me: Do I really have to spell this out for you? Are you really going to continue denying that Jesus was a man,THE SON OF MAN FROM THE BEGINNING!
John3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
the Son of man who is in heaven.
whom God CALLED TO JUSTICE BEFORE HE WAS BORN? Isaiah 42:1, 48:16, 49:1,You: If Jesus was without sin,
then he wouldn’t need to be baptized and he most certainly wouldn’t need to be called to JUSTICE.
Me: THE ABOVE FOR THE NEXT POST
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
@ Proclaimer,
Post #943063
“Jesus Christ being the first born of all creation and having first place in all things”. Does this mean Christ preexisted or he was first to be raised from the dead and receive God’s glory?
“If Jesus Christ is not the Word or the first to be with God then who was?” Christ is the flesh that came from the word; the next part read above.
“So why some random guy created on the spot 2000 years ago way after the sons of God witnessing the foundations of the earth being laid.” Please read Deut 18:15,18. Not a thing “random” about God’s plan.
“If you do not know who it is, then you cannot rule our Jesus Christ.” I can rule out Jesus, because Jesus isn’t God; as those who read John 1:1 believe [the word is God].
Post #943064
“And Son of God.” Other than the book of John, everyone called him the son of God and only in Luke 22 does Christ confirmed he is.
“He existed in the form of God, emptied himself, came in the flesh, humbled himself, obedient to God, died for our sins, rose from the dead, and taken up into the glory he had with the Father before the universe.” What do each of the phrases mean?
Post #943065
“Jewish belief denies that Jesus is the Messiah.” While Christ was hear the leaders rejected him as the Messiah, after Christ’s ascension didn’t the church flourish? Who denied Jesus was the Messiah?
Post #943067
“I don’t need to explain these scriptures as I only need to quote them to get opposition.” Try explaining them instead of just quoting, if you simple quote the verse without giving your understanding of what you believe it says, of course you will have opposition. The person reading it can’t read your mind, which is why I asked you to explain the verses with your understanding.
Post #943076
“The old is not the full picture and never was.” What did God mean then when HE told Abraham in Gen. 12:3, 22:18 ‘earth will be blessed in you’; ‘All the nations of the earth will be blessed by your seed’. Sounds to me like God was telling Abraham what he was going to do through Christ. Remember, the old is what the Apostles taught from…now what?!?
Hi Jodi,
You: A man was to receive the Spirit of God and bring forth judgement to the Gentiles according to Isaiah.
Me: Jodi, Let’s READ THE TRUTH!
YOU SAID ABOVE:
A MAN WAS TO RECEIVE THE SPIRIT OF GOD!
NO Jodi, THAT’S YOUR CORRUPTED BELIEF AND REASONING I’M AFRAID!
HOW LONG I’VE BEEN TELLING YOU THAT THE SPIRIT HAS BEEN GIVEN TO JESUS FROM THE VERY BEGINNING? Read and accept the truth please:
Isaiah 42:11BEHOLD my servant, I will uphold him:
my elect, my soul DELIGHTS in him:
Notice the tense, it is the simple present tense, NOT FUTURE TENSE:
Jodi, We use the simple present tense when an action is happening right now, or when it happens regularly (or unceasingly, which is why it’s sometimes called present indefinite).
IN THE CASE ABOVE JESUS, THOUGH A SPIRIT, ALREADY CARRIED GOD’S SOUL!
THE HOLY GHOST!
(1) JESUS PRE-EXISTED Jodi!
Now let’s read and confirm this in other scripture:
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, and hear this:
I HAVE NOT spoken in secret FROM THE BEGINNING:
Jodi, THE ABOVE IS AS CLEAR AS CRYSTAL!
Jesus! THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD is TALKING! Carry on reading please:
from the time before it was done,
Me: ….BEFORE CREATION WAS DONE/BEFORE THE BEGINNING WAS DONE!
I was there,
IN THE ABOVE, JESUS CONFIRMED TWO THINGS Jodi,
ONE THAT HE IS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, AND
TWO THAT HE “HAS NOT” SPOKEN IN SECRET, FROM THE BEGINNING!
John1:1
Now look again at the tense please:
I HAVE NOT spoken in secret FROM THE BEGINNING:
HAVE NOT!
PRESENT PERFECT!
Jodi, We use the present perfect:
for something that started in the past and continues in the present:
(2) JESUS PRE-EXISTED, Jodi,
Attention please, here comes THE TRUTH! Carry on reading Isiah 48:16,
and now the Lord God HAS SENT ME, and HIS SPIRIT.
Now just read the second part of Isaiah 42 :1,
I HAVE GIVEN MY SPIRIT upon HIM,
I SPELL THIS OUT FOR YOU:
Isaiah 48:16,….. the Lord God HAS SENT ME, and HIS SPIRIT.
Isaiah 42 :1, ….. I HAVE GIVEN MY SPIRIT upon HIM,BOTH SCRIPTURES ARE NOT ONLY SAYING AND REFERRING TO THE SAME TRUTH!
BUT ALSO BOTH USE THE PRESENT PERFECT TENSE!
And we use the present perfect tense: for something that started in the past and continues in the present:
Jodi,
JESUS PRE-EXISTED, JESUS IS THE WORD SPOKEN OF GOD, AND JESUS HAD THE SPIRIT UPON HIM, FROM THE BEGINNING!
MORE PROOF!
Isaiah 49:1 Listen to me, you islands;
HEAR THIS, you distant nations:
Before I was born the Lord called me;
Jodi and Gene and those who are in harmony with your corrupted teaching,
the above confirms that
GOD CALLED JESUS BEFORE HE WAS BORN!
(3) JESUS PRE-EXISTED Jodi!
DID YOU SEE IT? NO, YOU DON’T! LET’S GO BACK TO Isaiah 48:16 PLEASE ABOVE!
Isaiah 48:16,….. the Lord God HAS SENT ME, and HIS SPIRIT.
Isaiah 49:1 ……Before I was born the Lord called me;
GOD THE FATHER CALLED JESUS AND SENT HIM AND HIS SPIRIT INTO THE WORLD!
Luke 1:35And the angel answering, said to her:
The HOLY GHOST shall come upon thee,
and the power of the MOST HIGH shall overshadow thee.
And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called
the Son of God.
Jody reading the above scripture we are aware that in Jesus’ conception,
ACCORDING TO Isaiah 49 ABOVE,
GOD CALLED JESUS! LET THERE BE LIGHT!
ACCORDING TO Isaiah 48 ABOVE
GOD SENT THE HOLY GHOST AND JESUS INTO THE WORLD, INTO MARYS’ UNIQUE WOMB Luke 1:46 above!
JESUS WAS BORN FIRST THE SON OF GOD AS A SPIRIT OF THE HOLY GHOST THROUGH MARY and THEN, THE SON OF MAN “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD FROM THE FATHER’S MOUTH:
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH!
Continue
Isaiah 49:1… from my mother’s womb he has spoken my name.
DID YOU GET THIS Jodi?
GOD IN THE HOLY GHOST WITHIN MARY’S UNIQUE WOMB SPOKE JESUS’ NAME! THEN WHAT?
JESUS WAS BORN AS A SPIRIT FULL OF LIGHT OUT OF MARY AND ANTICIPATED MOUNT TABOR.
THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD
Isaiah 49:2 He made my mouth like a sharpened sword,
Hebrews 4:12 For THE WORD of God is living and effectual, and more piercing
than any two edged sword;
Continue. Isaiah 49:2…..in the shadow of his hand he
HID ME;
John1:20The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him, and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God, behold him who taketh away the sin of the world. 30This is he, of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me:
because he was before me.
31 And I knew him not,
but that he may be MADE MANIFEST in Israel,
therefore am I come baptizing with water.32And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven, and he remained upon him.
33And I knew him not;
but he who sent me to baptize with water, said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining upon him,
he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
34And I saw,and I gave testimony,
that this IS the Son of God.
Simple present tense
Me: Do I really have to spell this out for you? Are you really going to continue denying that Jesus was a man,
THE SON OF MAN FROM THE BEGINNING!
John3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven,
the Son of man who is in heaven.
whom God CALLED TO JUSTICE BEFORE HE WAS BORN? Isaiah 42:1, 48:16, 49:1,
You: If Jesus was without sin,
then he wouldn’t need to be baptized and he most certainly wouldn’t need to be called to JUSTICE.
Me: THE ABOVE FOR THE NEXT POST
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
“Jesus Christ being the first born of all creation and having first place in all things”. Does this mean Christ preexisted or he was first to be raised from the dead and receive God’s glory?
who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him; and he is before all things, and in him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
- Image of invisible God
- Firstborn of all creation
- All things created because of him and through him
- He is before all things
- Head of the Church
- Firstborn from the dead
- To have preeminence in all things
In your reply quoted above, you mention firstborn of all creation could mean firstborn from the dead. Yes, he is firstborn from the dead (see #6). That leaves #2. Gene basically believes that this too means firstborn from the dead. So he has to admit it mentions the same thing twice which is weird. When you read the text however, it seems clear that each point is a unique point. Thus, he and Jodi do not have an answer for what #2 really means because firstborn from the dead is already mentioned in #6.
@desire Truth
You
Deut. 18:15 (Moses speaking) Yahweh your God will raise up to you a prophet from your midst, of your brothers, like me. You shall listen to him.
Deut. 18:17,18 Yahweh said to me (Moses), “They have well said that which they have spoken. 18 I will raise them up a prophet from among their brothers, like you. I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him.
Curious how God raising up a prophet from their midst (nation of Israel), of their brothers, like Moses (had direct communication with God) is referring to a preexisting son in heaven. Explain!
me
This prophet preexisted in the form of God (Phil.2), and was made flesh. (John 1:14)
And Proverbs 30
no answer ?🙏
@ Berean,
You end your post with “No answer?” Was I suppose to answer this before you posted it!?!? Or is there a misunderstanding in what you wrote; a translation issue between languages?
What did you explain concerning the Deut 18 verses? Absolutely nothing! You revert back to what you have been educated in and say here’s your proof, just read it. Explain why you believe what you believe.
Phil 2 does NOT mention anything about “preexistence”, it says Christ “existed” in the form of God; try again.
John 1:14 flesh is what the word became and that flesh is Christ; next.
Neither of these verses explain what both Moses and God spoke. Someone of the nation of Israel, who was like Moses, was going to come, do all God commanded, and the nation was to listen to this man because this man was chosen by God to do HIS will. The Jews believed it was going to be just a man, not a god-man, not incarnated God, or any other man made idea to explain the Messiah. Funny how through out the writings of the new testament Paul, John, and Peter refer to Christ as “a man.” Is it making sense yet?
@ desire Truth
The Jews believed it was going to be just a man, not a god-man, not incarnated God, or any other man made idea to explain the Messiah.
Me
The Jews were also supposed
know Proverbs 30:4 and not get stuck on Deuteronomy 18.And how is it that the Jews crucified the Messiah announced by the prophets, one of whom tells us that his origin goes back to the days of eternity (Micah 5:2) ???
🙏
You( desir Truth)
Phil 2 does NOT mention anything about “preexistence”, it says Christ “existed” in the form of God; try again.
me
To live in the form of God, one must be God. And the Son of God (Proverbs 30:4/John 1:1) was God and WAS WITH the GOD in the BIGINNING before the World WAS (John 17:5)
you:
John 1:14 flesh is what the word became and that flesh is Christ; next.me
….AND THE WORD WAS GOD (THEOS) John 1:1
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.(Rev.19:13)
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness👉 he doth judge👈 and make war.( Rev.19:11)
👉For the Father judgeth no man👈, 👉but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:👈
[23] That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.🙏
Proclaimer…….Jesus is both, firstborn, from the dead and firstborn into the kingdom of God, how is that hard for you to understand? Did JESUS not say, (not me). “You must be born again”? Even so he had to be born again also.
Why are you always trying to make Jesus appear different then we are? Jesus is the “first of many brethren to be born into the kingdom of God”, not the only one to be>
Please tell us where the word “”preexistence ” is even in the Bible at, referencing Jesus’ actual existence as a LIVE BEING BEFORE HIS BIRTH on this earth >Forcing our text to say what it in fact doesn’t actually is a form of lying.
Jesus said (not me), “I am the root and offspring of DAVID”, QUESTION IS, do you truly believe him and what he said. Please show us where Jesus ever said he preexisted as a living being before he was born on this earth?
peace and love to you and yours Proclaimer……..gene
@Gene
“Please show us where Jesus ever said he preexisted as a living being before he was born on this earth?”
Me
Proverbs 30:4
👉Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? 👉what is his name,👉 and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
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@ Berean,
Explain what you believe is happening in Proverbs 30:4; what does it mean?
To say I am stuck on the Deut. passage tells me you haven’t any idea how to justify your belief to the passage. The language is simple and nothing is hidden in it, so it can be read and understood for what it literally says.
Why are we back on Micah? Didn’t I explain it well enough the first time or have you rejected it?
@ desire Truth
Why are we back on Micah? Didn’t I explain it well enough the first time or have you rejected it?
Me
Micah tells us that the origin of the Messiah dates back to OUTSIDE ETERNITY.
OF COURSE IT IS THE UNCORRUPTED BIBLES THAT SAY THIS.Proverbs 30:4 tells us among other things that God has a Son, AND IT IS BEFORE THIS LATTER BECOMES FLESH. AND ALSO THAT SON HAS A NAME.
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Good Morning Berean,
Prov 30:4 Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son’s name, if thou canst tell?
Luke 22:69 Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and JESUS standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and THE SON OF MAN standing on the right hand of God.
Isaiah 40:23 That bringeth the princes to nothing; he maketh the judges of the earth as vanity. 24 Yea, they shall not be planted; yea, they shall not be sown: yea, their stock shall not take root in the earth: and he shall also blow upon them, and they shall wither, and the whirlwind shall take them away as stubble. 25 To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One. 26 Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by number: he calleth them all by names by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth. 27 Why sayest thou, O Jacob, and speakest, O Israel, My way is hid from the LORD, and my judgment is passed over from my God? 28 Hast thou not known? hast thou not heard, that the everlasting God, the LORD, the Creator of the ends of the earth, fainteth not, neither is weary? there is no searching of his understanding. 29 He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. 30 Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: 31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Psalms 80:17 Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself. 18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Berean, I have provided just a few scriptures that directly connect to Proverbs 30. He who ascended to heaven is the Son of Man and this Son of Man is also descending from heaven. This Son of Man is the promised son of David. YHVH promised that He would be a Father unto an existing son of David and that He would settle him into His kingdom. As I have given you which you continue to ignore, scripture teaches us directly the image of the Son, it is one who is LED by the Spirit of God, it is one who is an heir of God, it is one where the Spirit bears witness to his spirit that he is a child of God. The man Jesus said that a man must be born of the Spirit to enter into God’s kingdom. We are given that the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness righteousness and truth. We are given that we are heirs of God, JOINT heirs with the anointed Jesus. We are given that the Spirit came to abode in Jesus without measure, a calling to righteousness. We are given that he who does righteousness has been born of God. We are given that a Son of Man was exalted up to heaven to God’s right hand.
What you refuse to acknowledge, the word of God that you treat like dirt to be swept under a rug for the sake of your doctrine, is truly astonishing Berean.
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