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Gene
If “the word” are only spoken words
why then John said:AND THE WORD WAS GOD
GENE ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD, NOT SPOKEN WORDS EVEN IF THEY COME FROM GOD.
When God speaks, only GOD IS GOD NOT HIS WORDS.
🙏
Hi Gene,
You: Desire truth………Simple, you need to just believe what Jesus told us and you have your answer, Jesus said (not me)…..“the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him who sent me”. Simple as that, those that believe Jesus know by Jesus’ own words, he, “himelf” is not the words of God himself, he was quoting as a “MEDIATOR”,would to us, the words of God. He never took the position of actually himself being the word of God himself.
Me: Gene, AS ALWAYS YOU ARE NOT IN THE POSITION TO PRODUCE GENUINE SCRIPTURE !
READ WHAT YOU SAID ( NOT JESUS)
Jesus said (not me)…..“the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him who sent me”.
NOW LET’S READ THE SCRIPTURE!
DRB. VERSION.
John14:23 Jesus answered, and said to him:
If anyone love me, he will keep MY WORD,
IN THE ABOVE JESUS USED THE TERM
“MY WORD” A PERSONAL PRONOUN and A SINGULAR. A clear reference to “HIS PERSONAL SPIRIT”
and my Father will love him, and WE will come to him, and will make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not, keepeth not MY WORDS.
IN THE ABOVE JESUS USED THE TERM “MY WORDS” A PERSONAL PRONOUN and A PLURAL. A clear reference to “HIS SAYINGS, HIS PREACHING, HIS GOSPEL”.
And THE WORD which you have heard, is not mine;
but the Father’s who sent me.
ATTENTION NOW Gene, IN THE ABOVE JESUS USED THE TERM “THE WORD” AN ARTICLE and A SINGULAR, a clear reference to “THE SPIRIT”.
NOW READ AGAIN WHAT HE CONFIRMED:
And THE WORD which you have heard is not mine;
but the Father’s who sent me.
GOT IT Gene? THE ABOVE IS A PURE TRUTH THAT YOU ALL THE TIME DENY!
IN THE ABOVE JESUS ASSERTED THAT:
“THE WORD” /THE SPIRIT which you have heard is not mine; OBVIOUS THE FATHER’S SPIRIT, READ:
is not mine, HERE IT COMES MR. Gene:
but the Father’s who sent me!
NOW READ YOUR OWN TWISTED SCRIPTURE AGAIN:
Jesus said (not me)…..“the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him who sent me.
You, Gene, USED THE SAME TERM THREE TIMES, I MEAN:
AN ARTICLE AND A PLURAL,
A TERM NEVER USED BY JESUS AT ALL!
NO, Gene, I’M AFRAID THE ABOVE ARE YOUR TWISTED WORDS NOT JESUS’ OWN WORDS, AND YOU SAID THEM NOT JESUS.
OK Mr. GENIUS?
JESUS NEVER REFERRED TO HIS OWN PERSONAL PARTICULAR WORDS AS SUCH, BUT TO “THE WORD” OR MORE APPROPRIATELY THE SPIRIT, DEFINITELY
THE FATHER’S SPIRIT WITHIN JESUS!
THE PURE TRUTH!
NOW YOU, ONLY AS YOU FEEL FIT, TO QUENCH YOUR THIRST, AND PLEASE YOUR MENTALITY, DECLARED THIS YOURSELF.
IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE YOU DIDN’T.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Welcome Desire Truth!
Nice to see someone new and I’m loving your spirit and also your profile name.
One reason why I enjoy this forum is because it definitely does cause me to dig deeper also.
Looking forward to more posts by you, hope you stick around.
No one gave a concise answer to why John didn’t just say “Jesus” in the opening of the book, why use “word”. Do our biases add to confusion and make it more difficult to understand? I think the reason for no concise answer is we really don’t know why John wrote the beginning like he did – I do have a thought for later. I believe, as Gene does, that Jesus wasn’t what John meant. We have been taught something for so long that it has become truth. Just like many doctrines within the church today, we believe without question because our pastor wouldn’t lie to us…right! The reality is the pastor isn’t intentionally lying as this is what they are taught in the academic world, by an instructor who was taught the same thing, and the cycle goes back over a millennium. The early church warned about this type of deception and to not allow man’s doctrines to supersede the word of God.
@ Proclaimer,
If this is a revelation to John, why wasn’t it carried throughout the book? I think we are missing a key piece of understanding.@ Carmel,
I thought you said it was “crystal clear”! Your explanation was anything but clear and seems to add more to the confusion.How can God have no beginning, yet have a beginning? Seems contradictory. What is “ad intra” and “ad extra”, never heard these terms before and sounds like a man made way to explain a man made theology. Personally, I like simple; so, let’s keep it super simple!
In James 1:21, you state the “engrafted word” relates back to John1:1 and a reference to Christ – WHAT?!?!? Please read verses 19-25 and place verse 21 in context of what was written. We are to be doers and not hearers of this engrafted/implanted word. When I read this my understanding is to be doers of the word. So what is the engrafted/implanted word? What is this “word” we are to be doing? Is this word the 10 Commandments? Rev 22:14 states we must DO God’s commandments to have the right to the Tree of Life.
In Heb 4:12, the word of God is living, active, sharper, piercing, and discerning. What/who is the word of God? Homework: do a search on “word of God” in your favorite Bible program (I use Xiphos) and tell me this is Christ.
@ Berean,
Your concern over the capitalization of words within the New Testament and proving the validity is rather simple. The original Greek manuscripts where written in all capitals; so, it would have been left up to the translators to insert capitalization of specific words. Were the translators influenced by a “religious bias” when they translated the manuscripts? A point to ponder.@ Jodi,
Thank you for the welcome. This has been an amazing and an eye opening journey. I don’t claim to have all the answers, but I do have a lot thoughts and even more questions. Looking forward to participating in the conversations here and possibly offering up some new thoughts in the process.
Hi DesireTruth
Welcome to the forum
In John 1:1 it is written that “THE WORD” was God.
As I said to Gene recently words spoken BY GOD cannot be God, ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD.
HERE IN JOHN 1:1 IT CAN ONLY REFER TO THE SON OF GOD WHO WAS WITH GOD IN THE BIGINNING.
IN JOHN 17:5 WE HAVE A CONFIRMATION THAT HE WAS WITH GOD BEFORE THE FOUNDING OF THE WORLD.
And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
And we have confirmation that he was God in the beginning in Hebrews1:8-12
But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
[10] And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning has laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
[11] They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.you wrote
No one gave a concise answer to why John didn’t just say “Jesus” in the opening of the book, why use “word”.
Me
To inform us that IN THE BIGINNING, the SON OF GOD IS THE CREATIVE AGENT OF THE FATHER.
HE SAYS OR SPEAKS AND THE THING IS/EXISTS.In Genesis 1:26,
the” And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:” lets us believe that GOD speaks to his Son.And to conclude Paul tells us that God is the source of everything BY HIS HIS SON.
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.(1Cor.8 /Col.1)
God bless
🙏
Posting this to remind myself to watch it later.
Don’t know if it will be any good, but it is about the Word of God.
The guys speaking did a good job on another subject, so will see what his view is on this subject.
Good Morning LU,
Sorry I missed seeing your post and question earlier and thank you for kind words. I am hanging in there! Hope you are doing well.
YOU:
I would like to know your understanding of what the One who existed in the form of God emptied himself of as spoken of in Philippians 2:
5Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
ME:
I greatly appreciate this question as what Paul is speaking to is very profound and so many misinterpret it and therefore destroy it’s true significance. I feel like I could write a book focusing on this very chapter.
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
The anointed/set-apart Jesus by being given the Spirit not by measure and thus was in the form of God, was sent out into the world to do God’s works where he made himself of no reputation, he made himself nothing even saying that he could do nothing of himself, even saying why call me good, only God is good. With all the powers he had that most certainly made him exist in the form of God, he did not seek his own glory which would have come from following his own will which he never did, he was an obedient servant to God following only God’s will, even unto his own suffering and death.
In verse 5, which I am so glad you included, Paul is leading up to giving us the attitude/mind of the anointed Jesus and saying to those he is speaking to that they need to be of that same attitude/mind that the anointed Jesus had.
Is Paul asking for these men to be of the same attitude of a pre-existing Jesus who existed in the form of God or is Paul asking them to be of the same attitude of the man who was anointed with the Spirit, to which they also received to then also be sent out into the world to do God’s work?
I will answer that question in my next post with scriptural support, which will also support further the answer I gave to your question.
Hi LU,
Continuing on,
In verse 5, Paul is leading up to giving us the attitude/mind of the anointed Jesus and saying to those he is speaking to that they need to be of that same attitude/mind that the anointed Jesus had.
Is Paul asking for these men to be of the same attitude of a pre-existing Jesus who existed in the form of God or is Paul asking them to be of the same attitude of the man who was anointed with the Spirit and then was sent out into the world?
I believe it is important to look at who Paul is speaking to in greater detail.
Paul actually identifies them in further detail in that same chapter to which we can connect to other passages for greater understanding.
Phil 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
John 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracle; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
Isaiah 42:Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another,
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
The BODY of Christ represents Jesus of Nazareth who was the only mortal man to have been filled with God’s Spirit without measure. The Body of Christ represents all of the gifts of our Heavenly Father’s Spirit, wisdom, understanding, reverence and thus faith unto God, the ability to perform miracles, ability to discern spirits, ability to heal, ability to give prophecy, etc.. Upon receiving the Spirit Jesus was anointed/set apart to be sent out into the world to fulfill God’s will, to preach of the coming Kingdom of God. He was not of this world as he was sent down from heaven, sent directly by God.
Paul in Philippians 2 was speaking to the people of 1 Corinthians 12, those who received gifts of the Spirit coming together representing the body of Christ, representing the gifts of God’s Spirit to which Jesus had received in full. They too were sent out into the world as Jesus was sent, they too were not of this world as Jesus was not of this world. They too were fulfilling God’s will as the anointed Jesus did. They were to be like minded with THIS anointed man.
God was IN Jesus WITHOUT MEASURE for the purpose of him to speak God’s word and do God’s work, by such he is most certainly in the form of God and Jesus speaks to this very clearly in the below passage.
John 12: 44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. 49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jesus always gives all credit to God saying that he can do nothing of himself and at one point he even says, why call me good, only God is good. In John 12 he establishes not only he is in the form of God but that he is God’s servant, one who obeys God’s commands.
Paul in Phil 2:5 is speaking about the attitude/mind OF THE ANOINTED Jesus of Nazareth, the thoughts of a man who had been anointed/set apart having received the Spirit not by measure.
2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Let me reiterate some more, I know I do that quite a bit, lol.
Jesus being full of the Spirit having God’s great powers, found himself in the likeness of men when he was sent into the wilderness with no food for 40 days and nights and hungered. He humbled himself and served God instead of using the powers bestowed upon him to turn stones into bread. Jesus being in the form of God with the powers of God’s Spirit had the ability to never be in a position that made him in the likeness of men, he didn’t have to ever go hungry.
Jesus being full of the Spirit found himself in the likeness of men when he found himself fearing death and asked God to take this cup away from him. Jesus humbled himself to serve God over his own will. Jesus, being in the form of God, could have saved himself at any moment, when he was being beaten and when he was nailed to the cross. Being in the form of God he could have positioned himself to not have to even face the fear of death, let alone death itself.
Do you see it, do you understand the great significance? Jesus being full of the Spirit given powers of the Spirit, thus finding himself in the form of God, seeing himself as equal to God, could have saved himself from any manner of suffering that mortal men face, from that of hunger, from that of fear, from that of terrible physical pain and suffering, but he humbled himself to be obedient to God being a perfect servant, going to his death on the cross for us.
Further we are told in scripture that Jesus was numbered with transgressors and though the anointed Jesus knew no sin, God made him to be sin for us, by such we can say that he who was in the form of God not worthy of death, but found himself in the likeness and fashion of men, as one guilty of sin deserving of death.
Jesus didn’t humble himself by leaving a godly form to be found in the likeness of men, he was a human who received God’s Spirit without measure and therein great powers that he never once used for his own gain, on the contrary, he humbled himself and used it to the cause of his own persecution, suffering and death, all because he loved us, all for us.
Jesus speaks to the same people in Revelation who Paul spoke to in Philippians 2, Jesus tells them,
Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
What do we read from Paul before verse 5,
1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,
2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.
3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.
4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
There is ONE SPIRIT and Jesus was the only mortal man to have been filled with it without measure where he was anointed/set apart to go out into the world to do God’s work preaching salvation and the coming kingdom of God. Because of his words and his work he was persecuted and killed. His attitude the entire time was not of vainglory but to be God’s faithful servant and give God all the credit making himself of no reputation, emptying himself of his own will and all that he did was because he loved us.
There is ONE SPIRIT and it came upon many with various gifts which were all the gifts that one man himself had received, so together these members equated to the body of Christ. Paul spoke to these men in Philippians 2 that they not have vain glory because of their gifts and that they be servants of God just as the anointed Jesus was and that they do all things for the love of others as he did. They too were persecuted and killed and Jesus’s resurrection is also their resurrection.
Gene
If “the word” are only spoken words
why then John said:AND THE WORD WAS GOD
GENE ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD, NOT SPOKEN WORDS EVEN IF THEY COME FROM GOD.
When God speaks, only GOD IS GOD NOT HIS WORDS.
Berean God and his words are one and the same person, just as you and your word are you. No one can be another person’s words, common sense should tell you that.
Evidently you still don’t “TRULY” , believe Jesus, nor what he said (not me)…..“the words I am telling you, are “NOT”, MY WORDS, but the words of him that sent me”. That alone should be enough to make it clear Jesus is “NOT” God the Father’s word.
And again scripture says (not me), “but unto us their is but “ONE” GOD, and one mediator between God and men, “THE MAN”, Jesus Christ”.
But you chose not to “TRULY” BELIEVE Jesus, or you would admit and believe these words I have quoted from scripture, and stop trying to destroy them.
Peace and love to you and yours Berean……..gene
Gene
GOD AND WHAT HE SAYS ARE NOT QUITE THE SAME THING.
BRING BIBLICAL EVIDENCE MR GENE, AND WE WILL SEE AFTER.
🙏
@ Berean,
Let’s look a little deeper in to John 17:5
“Now, Father, glorify me with your own self with the glory which I had with you before the world existed.” Does this mean Jesus was with God before creation or is Jesus stating God foreknew the outcome even before creation and was part of this greater “plan” for mankind? I’m thinking the latter.
Peter used this same type of language in I Pet 1:20 in reference to Jesus being the spotless lamb “…who was foreknown indeed before the foundation of the world, but was revealed at the end of times for your sake”
John also states the same thing in Rev 13:8 “All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Are we to say Jesus was crucified before the world began? Or is John speaking of God’s plan?
Paul in Rom 8:29 “For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son…” God foreknew all those called according to his purposes and at what point in time did God figure this out? From before the world existed?
Eph 1:4 “He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love” All who have been chosen before the foundations of the world would therefore have existed in heaven first…right?
Jer 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I sanctified you. I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.” Did Jeremiah exist in heaven first with God or was he part of a plan God knew before it happened?
So does the concept of being foreknown equate to preexistence? From the sampling of verses above, I would say no. We are all part of a greater plan that God knew even before it began and already knows how it will end.
You also site Gen 1:26, “God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness…” and you say God is speaking to his son. However, as annotated in the NETfull translation – “In its ancient Israelite context the plural (the us and our) is most naturally understood as referring to God and his heavenly court.”
1 Kings 22:19-22, Micaiah said, “Therefore hear Yahweh’s word. I saw Yahweh sitting on his throne, and all the army of heaven standing by him on his right hand and on his left. 20 Yahweh said, ‘Who shall entice Ahab, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth Gilead?’ One said one thing; and another said another. 21 A spirit came out and stood before Yahweh, and said, ‘I will entice him.’ 22 Yahweh said to him, ‘How?’ He said, ‘I will go out and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ He said, ‘You will entice him, and will also prevail. Go out and do so.’ Wasn’t God conferring with the heavenly body?
In Job 1:6-12 and 2:1-6 we find God speaking with those in the heavenly. In Isa 6:1-8 the heavenly are in service to God and God asks, “who will go on our behalf?” The only conclusion I can come up with is those who are in service to God are the “us” and “our”. In none of these passages is a son ever mentioned, only the heavenly who surround the Father.
So now when looking back on Genesis 1:26, to whom is God speaking? Let’s use scripture to support our answers. If you made it to the end, thank you!
Hi DesireTruth
About Genesis1:26
Believing that God was speaking to angels, you then suggest that God, who said, “Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness:
made man IN THE IMAGE OF GOD AND ALSO OF THE ANGELS….???Do you believe that then!?
🙏
Desire Truth……..Your like a breath of fresh air to me and I believe Jodi also, I see the “Spirit of truth in you” , I reconize it by the soundness of your words. My hope is you will bring more “truth” to this site, and that we may all grow to a Better understanding of our scriptures.
“may the LORD, bless you and keep you, may the LORD make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious unto you, may the LORD lift up his countanance upon you , and give you peace”.
Peace and love to you and yours, Desire Truth………gene
Carmel…….You remind me of a tennis ball being bounced off walls of deception, saying I was not “quoting” the scriptures correctly is a lie, and you well know that. I am quoting them “exactly as they are written”, in the king James bible.
Because those scriptures go against you and your false teachings, is your problem not mine, as I have said before, if you “TRULY” believed Jesus, you would believe what He said. And I quoted “EXACTLY” what the King James bible said he said.
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel……….gene
@ Berean,
That’s a good question! Was man made in the image of God and the angels? Verse 27 would suggest no, as man was made specifically in God’s own image (and likeness) and not the angles. The point of the comment was to show God does interact with the heavenly body and the “us” and “our” (with a Hebraic understanding) was believed to be the heavenly body God spoke to. With this understanding, the modern teaching of a preexisting Jesus and the use this verse to support the trinity doctrine are brought into question. What is the truth?
Now that said, why did God say in “our image” and “our likeness”, what is the Hebrew meaning of “image” and “likeness”? Are they synonyms or are they distinct? Not sure if it’s of any significance; but it’s how my mind works…over analyze.
I presume your user name is in reference to the church in Berea that Paul visited in Acts 17…so let’s dig into this and discover something together.
Hi DesireTruth,
Since man was not created both in the image and likeness of God and angels, the fact remains that the biblical text remains as the foundation.
And the only possibility that remains to be put forward is that it is the Son of God.
John1 and 17 are there among other things to confirm this great truth 👉 He was with God in the BIGINNING BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD.And God say, let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
For Genesis 1:26 to be true, the Son must be in the perfect image and likeness of the Father.
Paul says this when he writes about Jesus
👉 Who being the brightness of his glory,(of God) and the express image of his person/substance/essence. 👉hupostasis)
(Hebrews1:3)👉And in Colossians 1:15
Who is the image of the invisible God….🙏
Hi, Desire Truth,
You: No one gave a concise answer to why John didn’t just say “Jesus” in the opening of the book, why use “word”.
Me: First and foremost, John’s Gospel is entirely spiritual, and one must be spiritually minded in order to understand it, never mind accepting it. Now in view of this, Jesus is a proper name, while the name “word” is definitely spiritual and carries various spiritual tasks with it, of which one, in particular, is precisely the task of the voice buried and talking within all souls/spirits as the engrafted “WORD” from the very beginning in the HEART of the first-ever creature Lucifer in order for God to communicate directly with all His eventual creatures from then on. Other tasks are that of ETERNAL LIFE, and SPIRIT/MEDIATOR between God and His creatures, as I will show you further down.
You: I thought you said it was “crystal clear”! Your explanation was anything but clear and seems to add more to the confusion.
Me: It was my first post to you, and through it, we definitely now are more acquainted and in a position to understand our maturity, mentality, and aim for participating in this forum.
You: How can God have no beginning, yet have a beginning? Seems contradictory.
Such language does not apply when we are discussing God and Hi spiritual processes, all possible for God, and keep in mind that God is A PERFECT PARADOX. Hereunder are some examples:
“I did not come to judge the world.” (John 12:47)
“I came into this world for judgment.” (John 9:39)“We are worthless servants.” (Luke 17:10)
“We are his workmanship.” (Ephesians 2:10)“Blessed are those who hunger.” (Matthew 5:6)
“No one who comes to me will ever be hungry.” (John 6:35)“Take up my yoke and learn from me.” (Matthew 11:29)
“Don’t submit again to a yoke.” (Galatians 5:1)“The Father judges impartially according to each one’s work.” (1 Peter 1:17)
“The Father, in fact, judges no one but has given all judgment to the Son” (John 5:22)“Everything is futile.” (Ecclesiastes 1:2)
Everything is meaningful—“Whatever you do, do everything for the glory of God.” (1 Corinthians 10:31)“Let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works.” (Matthew 5:16)
“Be careful not to practice your righteousness in front of others to be seen by them.” (Matthew 6:1)“Test me in this way.” (Malachi 3:10)
“Do not test the Lord your God.” (Luke 4:12)“He will be named…Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
“Don’t assume that I came to bring peace.” (Matthew 10:34)Now I said:
IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD….
GOD HAS NO BEGINNING, but in that very instant He had a BEGINNING, HIDDEN IN HIS OWN “WORD”, ALSO A SPIRIT, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, THE EVENTUAL AND ETERNAL ABODE OF GOD AD EXTRA IN ORDER FOR GOD TO CREATE ALL BY “THE WORD”
To be more specific and also super simple:
In that very instant when God initiated creation, FROM WITHIN HIMSELF/AD INTRA, He pronounced His very first “WORD”/EMANATED A SPIRIT OUTSIDE OF HIMSELF/AD EXTRA, not in the way we do for sure, we are not spirits. Well hinted out in John12:28-30. In fact THE BIG BANG. From then on God started creation, and for the first-ever time He was both as He was in Himself, and in creation outside of Himself, but buried and hidden within “THE WORD” SPIRIT, THE SON OF MAN TO BE, in the endless spirits of light emanated from God, which enlightened the entire infinite existence, then in pitch darkness, in order for God to create all by this SPIRIT OF LIGHT,
“THE WORD” spoken of God.
Now let’s read John1:1
1IN the beginning was the Word,
Pronounced by God from within Himself, THE BIG BANG, A SPIRIT as explained above.
and the Word was with God,
God was within this SPIRIT His eternal abode, as THE SOURCE of creation.
Notice the opposite state between the Father and the Son. Before creation, the Son was/is in the bosom of the Father, on creation the BIG BANG, the Son left the Father, and within the Son was the Father BURIED and HIDDEN LIKE A TREASURE IN A FIELD, for the sake of creation NO MATTER WHO AND WHAT AT ALL COSTS. Thus between the Father and Creation was
“THE WORD “spoken of God, Jesus the Son of Man to be, attention please as
ETERNAL LIFE, SPIRIT/MEDIATOR, and the direct COMMUNICATION between God and His Creatures, plus that in this state, while the Father IS shielded by the Son from the least intention of sin, all creatures NO MATTER WHO and WHAT exist totally in their free will, simply PROTECTED from the Father, as between them and the Father there is precisely
Jesus the Son of Man sacrificed as
THE ENGRAFTED WORD, A SPIRIT/MEDIATOR, and ETERNAL LIFE!
and the Word was God.
Without “THE WORD” A SPIRIT, in this most vital task, creation was not possible. Well hinted out in
John15:1 I AM the true vine; and my Father is the husbandman. 2Every branch in me, that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now you are clean by reason of the word, which I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:
for without me you can do nothing.
John1:3 All things were made by him: and without him was made nothing that was made. 4In him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5And the light shineth in darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
You: What is “ad intra” and “ad extra”, never heard these terms before and sounds like a man made way to explain a man made theology. Personally, I like simple; so, let’s keep it super simple!
Again, we are discussing God, God is a SPIRIT, and using SPIRITUAL terms NO MATTER THEIR ORIGIN, attributed to God’s SPIRITUAL work we understand more what in actual fact we are talking about and discern more truth.
This division of attributes, though listed together in [Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter 2], relies upon a standard way of explaining God’s person and work, namely, his opera ad intra (internal work) and opera ad extra (external work). In other words, God can be considered either absolutely separately from his creation, or relatively, as he is related to his creation. As Johannes Wollebius (1589-1629) notes, “Both essential and personal works include those affecting God alone [ad intra] and those whose effects are felt outside of God [ad extra].” Likewise he states, “Those works of God which have their object outside of him are either immanent and internal, or outgoing and external” (J. V. Fesko, The Theology of the Westminster Standards, 100).
You: In James 1:21, you state the “engrafted word” relates back to John1:1 and a reference to Christ – WHAT?!?!?
Please read verses 19-25 and place verse 21 in context of what was written. We are to be doers and not hearers of this engrafted/implanted word. When I read this my understanding is to be doers of the word.
So what is the engrafted/implanted word?
What is this “word” we are to be doing? Is this word the 10 Commandments? Rev 22:14 states we must DO God’s commandments to have the right to the Tree of Life.
In view of the above, you have more clarity regarding the engrafted word.
It is called the ENGRAFTED WORD! WHY?
engraft is when something is joined to the extent that the two become
one permanently
As explained above the very first act by God was when He pronounced His “WORD”. A SPIRIT, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE. Now in that precise moment, GOD, ALL-KNOWING, IMPLANTED THIS WORD, SPIRIT, SACRIFICED AS ONE SUBSTANCE FOR THE SAKE OF CREATION WITHIN ALL THE ENDLESS SPIRITS EMANATED FROM GOD ONCE CREATION BEGAN. John1:1
Now let’s read
James 1 22But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.23For if a man be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he shall be compared to a man beholding his own countenance in a glass. 24For he beheld himself, and went his way, and presently forgot what manner of man he was. 25But he that hath looked into the perfect law of liberty, and hath continued therein, not becoming a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work; this man shall be blessed in his deed.
In the above it is evidently clear that the WORD mentioned above is precisely THIS ENGRAFTED WORD, SPIRIT, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN WITHIN OUR HEARTS, OUR ETERNAL LIFE, TALKING ALL THE TIME TO GUIDE US. John1:1
Heb 4:12, the word of God is living, active, sharper, piercing, and discerning.
What/who is the word of God? Homework: do a search on “word of God” in your favorite Bible program (I use Xiphos)
and tell me this is Christ.
Perfect as I explained throughout this post!
But to be more precise, the “WORD” mentioned in Hebrews is only THE SON OF MAN, AS A SPIRIT EMANATED FROM GOD IN THE VERY BEGINNING John1:1.
Now, Jesus was born with two natures, FULLY GOD in the Son of God, Jesus ‘divine nature, WHO COULD NOT DIE, OF THE HOLY GHOST, and FULLY MAN, in the Son of Man, JESUS’HUMAN NATURE, WHO DIED and on His death became one substance with the Son of God, IN THE HOLY GHOST, JESUS’DIVINE NATURE AS
JESUS CHRIST
GODMAN John 13:32
To be clear
JESUS’ HUMAN NATURE, THE MAN, SPIRITUALIZED HIS FLESH BODY (THE ENTIRE CREATION ALL IN HIM) THROUGH HIS PERFECT LIFE, EVEN BEFORE HE SUFFERED HIS PASSION. Luke 13;32 Thus He was ready to be SACRIFICED FOR OUR SAKE, attention please:
IN ORDER TO GIVE HIS DEAD BODY TO US ON HIS RESURRECTION. 1Peter3-5, BUT FIRST AND FOREMOST IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH, HE HAD TO GIVE BACK HIS BODY SPIRITUALIZED AND
IN FULL GLORY John17:1,5
TO THE ONE WHO FURNISHED IT, GOD THE FATHER! Hebrews 10:5 AS
GODMAN,
JESUS CHRIST
FOR THE GLORY OF THE FATHER ON THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD WHEN
GOD WOULD BE ALL IN ALL
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
@ Berean,
Since Jesus was with God at the foundation of the world and is the one God is speaking with, that would mean there were two separate beings of the “godhead” in heaven at creation. Having two beings does not support the monotheistic faith the Jews have? Deut 6:4, “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord”. However, jumping to John 1:1 and Jesus being the “word” and therefore God. How exactly does this work? I think we have a problem…
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