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Berean,
Your interpretation is in grave error and if you reviewed the context given in the entire chapter maybe it would not be so,
1 Timothy 3:1 This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not double tongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. 10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. 11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. 13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14 These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.Paul is speaking about godliness which comes through the Spirit to which JESUS RECEIVED WITHOUT MEASURE at the river Jordan. Godliness is God manifesting Himself in the flesh. If you have love, if you have truth, if you have patience, etc.., God’s Spirit is living in you, God is manifesting Himself in the flesh. Or are we all to be self-righteous? Jesus was certainly not, he said he could do nothing of himself, he said that only God is good, he said that God was in him and that is how he was doing the works.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
The Son of Man who received the Spirit of God WITHOUT MEASURE for the purpose to speak God’s words and do God’s works performing all of His will, was the perfect image of godliness and thus was God manifested in the flesh, why Jesus said that seeing him was seeing God and to believe not on him but on God who sent him, for God was in him. The SON OF MAN was received up into glory, exalted to God’s right hand, the very glory that God had promised to an offspring of Jesse. One man who was with God in His Word from the beginning where we will see him also return in our Father’s glory.
Berean,
Do you make the connection of Jesus saying that God was IN him to the fact that we are told that God gave him His Spirit without measure?
Hi Jodi,
You: Jesus offered himself because God commanded him to do so,
Me: Produce scripture please not your carnal-minded mentality with very respect. In the meantime read hereunder:
Isaiah 6:8 And I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: Whom shall I send? and who shall go for us? And I said:
Lo, here am I, send me.
The above Jodi, whether you accept it or not IT’S YOUR PIGEON!
DEPICTS JESUS PRE-EXITENCE AND HIS OFFER TO REDEEM HUMANITY.
9And he said: Go, and thou shalt say to this people: Hearing, hear, and understand not: and see the vision, and know it not. 10Blind the heart of this people, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes: lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted and I heal them.
Matthew 13:13 Therefore do I speak to them in parables: because seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14And the prophecy of Isaias is fulfilled in them, who saith: By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand: and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive.
15For the heart of this people is grown gross, and with their ears they have been dull of hearing, and their eyes they have shut: lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
You: it was God’s plan and as you said God’s will and Jesus obeyed.
Jesus obeyed because he was the Son of Man who God had CALLED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS,
Me: Perfect Jodi, read the scripture again!
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, and hear this:
I have not spoken in secret from the beginning:
The above Jodi is clear evidence of JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT, IT’S YOUR PIGEON! Keep on reading the TRUTH and keep on DENYING AS MENTIONED IN Isaiah 13:13-15 ABOVE.
from the time BEFORE it was done, John1:1…
I was there,
Now read what you just said above:
You: Jesus obeyed because he was the Son of Man
YOU JUST CONFIRMED THAT JESUS PRE-EXISTED AS THE SON OF MAN BEFORE CREATION, John 17:2, John 3:13, AND WAS SENT BY THE FATHER.
You: who God had CALLED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS,
PERFECT AGAIN CONTINUE READ Isaiah 48:16
and now the Lord God HADT SENT ME, and
HIS SPIRIT.
Notice the PRESENT PERFECT TENSE “HADT SENT ME”
WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT, Jodi and Gene,
YOU BLIND PEOPLE!
THE ABOVE IN THE PERSONAL PRONOUN “ME” IS A CLEAR REFERENCE TO “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, and “THE SPIRIT” IS A REFERENCE TO THE HOLY GHOST! READ AGAIN AND SWALLOW IT DOWN INTO YOUR GUTS.
Isaiah 48:16……”I have not spoken in secret from the beginning:..” John1:1
Now to the rest:
17Thus saith the Lord thy redeemer,
the Holy One of Israel:
I am the Lord thy God that teach thee profitable things,
that govern thee in the way that thou walkest.
Now to Jesus’ own words:
Matthew 23:8 But be not ye called Rabbi:
for one is your Master, even Christ;
and all ye are brethren.
You: where God would hold his hand and keep him for to fulfill God’s covenant.
Perfect again, GOD HELD HIS HAND and KEPT HIM PRECISELY
FROM THE VERY FIRST MOMENT HE SENT JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, AS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD, A SPIRIT MENTIONED IN John3:13, and in Isaiah 48:16 ABOVE, FROM HEAVEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS TO FULFILL GODS’ WORK, EVEN
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev, 13:28
THE PURE FACT THAT HE HELD AND KEPT HIM NO MATTER WHAT!
More to come
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Jodi
You
Do you make the connection of Jesus saying that God was IN him to the fact that we are told that God gave him His Spirit without measure?
Me
who is the WORD?
That’s the title of this thread.The answer that the Bible gives and that I approve of is: THE SON OF GOD.
HOWEVER, A WORD THAT GOD SPEAKS CANNOT BE GOD.
FOR ONLY A PERSON CAN BE GOD, NOT A WORD THAT GOD SPEAKS.
SO THIS MEANS THAT THE “WORD” OF JOHN 1:1 THAT WAS GOD IS MUCH MORE THAN A WORD THAT GOD SPOKEN, EVEN THOUGH THAT WORD SPOKEN IS VERY IMPORTANT.
So let’s try to stay on topic:
WHO IS THE WORD?🙏
Hi Proclaimer,
I am going to highlight this again for everyone.
Does the chapter below give Jesus two names or just one name where that one name surrounds the word of God spoken by the prophets long ago?
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.All of the blue can be found in OT prophet writings which is the Word of God, from David, to Isaiah, to Daniel, to Joel, to Ezekiel, which all directly speak to the name that is WRITTEN King of kings and Lord of lords.
Revelation 19 does not teach that Jesus has been given two names with one name being, The Word of God, and it most certainly DOES NOT SPEAK AT ALL about a pre-existing Son of God existing as God’s Word creating heaven and earth in the beginning to then back up legitimacy as to why he has been given that name.
Quite the opposite,
Revelation 19 is directly showing how the name that is WRITTEN is called the word of God by giving us the word of God from the prophets that display the legitimacy as to why Jesus is given this name, King of kings and Lord of lords.
Berean,
All things connect, this seems to be your problem and thus why you teach confusion and contradiction.
You say that Jesus represents the Word as meaning he pre-existed as God’s only begotten Son and spoke creation into existence.
What other passages speak regarding WHO Jesus is, including how he exists as a Son of God and when he was sent, has everything to do with John 1:1. I am absolutely not going off topic nor will I be going off topic in the future. Your interpretation of John 1:1 contradicts other passages, passages that make your interpretation impossible, convenient for you to say me discussing those passages is going off topic.
In the beginning was the Word (eternal life Titus 1:2) and the Word (eternal life was indeed WITH God from the beginning 1 John 1:2) and the Word is God (as God is Himself eternal and He is the SOURCE of eternal life, which He prepared from the beginning to be fulfilled through one man’s righteousness, Romans 5, Isaiah 42 and 46).
By such then all things were made by reason of this one man; and without this one man was not any thing made that was made. For God did not create all things for sin and death, He created humans to come to exist in His image having the many fruits of His Spirit living, being righteous unto eternal life. Such is Jesus, where he was an only begotten Son but now being raised from the dead receiving the promised Spirit, he is the firstfruits of them that slept and he is a firstborn of many, for we are promised also to be born of the Spirit to the measure that we are led by the Spirit in all ways, being thus joint heirs of the Spirit of God with Christ Jesus. All Sons of God being Led by the Spirit of God, God ALL IN ALL, God’s plan and purpose from the beginning.
Jodi
You
Berean,
All things connect, this seems to be your problem and thus why you teach confusion and contradiction.
You say that Jesus represents the Word as meaning he pre-existed as God’s only begotten Son and spoke creation into existence.
Me
In the beginning the Son of God existed and his primary title/name was to be “THE WORD OF GOD.”
WORD OF GOD TO CREATE HEAVEN AND EARTH AND ITS INHABITANTS AND TO SUPPORT ALL THAT LIVE.
THIS IS THE FIRST POINT TO SEIZE BEFORE ANY OTHERS.….all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist…(Col.1:16,17)IN THE BIGINNING WAS THE WORD AND THE WORD WAS WITH THE GOD, AND THE WORD WAS GOD.
IN THE BEGINNING, GOD HAD AN ONLY BEGOTTEN SON WHO WAS OMNIPOTENT, WITHOUT THAT, WE WOULDN’T BE HERE TO TALK ABOUT IT.
🙏
Jodi, as I have said , “they are not of the truth, or they could easely understand what you and I are saying”. They have altogether become useless concerning the words of God, that was spoken unto us by the prophets and Jesus Christ.
They will not be accepted, unless they “repent”.
You have done an excellent Job of explaining and proving through our scriptures “the truth, from our scriptures”, Jodi.
Peace and love to you and yours Jodi………..gene
Who is the Word of God?
All this dialogue, but this topic asks a simple question and the answer is found in scripture.
Question: JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?
Answer: His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
His name is Jesus, therefore he is Jesus.
His name is the Word of God, therefore he is the Word of God.
There appears to be a lot of skirting around this, but no one can debunk this truth unless they first debunk scripture.
It is easier to break an atom than to break a prejudice”
Albert Einstein
But by the grace of God it can be done….
Our brother Paul told us, I can do everything THROUGH CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME.Paul again:
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;(2Cor.10:5)
Corinthians 1:19,27-29
So it is written: I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And I will destroy the understanding of the intelligent.To ALL……..Jesus is “called” the word of God” , because he does not tell us “his” own words, but the words of God. That is why he is “called” the word God, NO OTHER REASON, Jesus plainly said (not me). “The words I am telling you “ARE NOT” MY WORDS”. but the words of him who sent me”.
Question is, how many here, “actually” believe , Jesus, and what he said, that the true question. If you “truly believe Jesus, then you would know he HIMSELF, is not God the fathers words at all, but he spoke “the Fathers words”. to us, “EXACTLY” AS did the PROPHETS.
Scripture says, (not me) , ……“GOD SPOKE”, in times past through the prophets. And in these “last days” , (thats the time from Jesus till now), Has spoken to us by a Son. NON OF THAT EVER MADE Jesus, God the Fathers own words, but as a “MEDIATOR”, he was giving us God the Fathers words, just as the prophets did also.
Just as it says…….“there is “ONE”, God, and ONE “MEDIATOR” , between GOD and men, THE “MAN” Jesus Christ”. You simply believe it or not , those of the truth know the sound of the truth, and believe it, those of a lie believe that Jesus himself is God the Fathers words himself.
Jesus himself is no more God the Fathers words, then saying an airplane is a real bird because it flies like a bird does. No an airplane is not a bird because it flies like a bird does, even though they call it a bird, Just that simple, for those who have the “SPIRIT OF TRUTH” IN THEM”.peace and love to you all and yours………Gene
Gene
You
Jesus is “called” the word of God” , because he does not tell us “his” own words, but the words of God.
Me
It is true, Jesus on earth did not take personal initiatives, he always consulted his Father in prayer and the Spirit guided him in all things.
But it WAS ALSO TRUE IN THE BIGINNING WHEN HE WAS WITH GOD AND WAS GOD.
THE FATHER SAY ABOUT HIS SON
In Hebrews 1:8-12
But unto the Son he(God) saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.(10)And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
[11] They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.🙏
To ALL……..Jesus is “called” the word of God” , because he does not tell us “his” own words, but the words of God.
His name is the Word of God. Therefore, he is the Word of God.
Just like you are Gene.
Do I hear an amen?
Proclaimer and Berean………Jesus said (not me)…….“the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him that sent me”.
Question is do you, “truly”, believe Jesus and what he himself said?
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Gene
Jesus said (not me)…….“the words I am telling you are “NOT” MY WORDS, but the words of him that sent me”.
Question is do you, “truly”, believe Jesus and what he himself said?
Me
Yes I believe Jesus AND what he himself Saïd.
Berean……. GOOD, Then you know Jesus himself is not God the Father’s words, he is “called” the word of God , because he is telling God the Father’s words. Not because he , “IS” himself the word of God.
Remember Berean , Jesus is a “MEDIATOR ” , and that’s what mediators do , they tell us someone else’s words. “Not their own words”.
- Now with that knowledge you should be able to “PROPERLY ” understand the truth of John 1:1 .
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Gene
Because the SON OF GOD SPEAKS THE WORDS OF GOD, HE IS CALLED “THE WORD OR THE WORD OF GOD”.
JOHN 1:1 SAYS IT WAS SO IN THE BEGINNING, SO I KNOW WHO WAS THE ONE WHOM JOHN NAMES IN THE FIRST CHAPTER OF HIS EPISTLE.
👉 IT IS YOU GENE WHO MUST RECOGNIZE AND ACCEPT THE ONE WHO IS NAMED IN JOHN 1
👉”and without HIM was not any thing made that was made.”👈 JOHN 1:3
👉…all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.👈 COL.1:16,17🙏
Good Morning Berean,
Yet again you have taken a passage and ignored the surrounding context to make it fit your doctrine, and you continue to not apply scripture with scripture,
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; 6 Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: 7 As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; 8 Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit. 9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: 15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by (REASON OF) him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by (REASON OF) him, and FOR him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile ALL THINGS unto Himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. 21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Berean, just like in Revelation 19 where we are not being given 2 names, but ONE NAME where that name that is written, King of kings and Lord of lords, is called the word of God as it was spoken by the prophets, in Colossians 1 we are not being given 2 creations but ONE CREATION, the New Heaven and Earth.
You are given context before verse 15 that Paul is speaking about the New Heaven and Earth, our hope that is laid up in heaven being partakers of the inheritance, translated us into the kingdom of His dear Son of who had shed his blood.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
This Son of Man, where God promised to be a Father unto him and give him an eternal kingdom, is he where ALL THE FULLNESS DWELLS, as ALL THINGS are reconciled to God through him as he is the man who God from the beginning declared would FULLFILL ALL OF HIS WILL. This Son of Man who shed his blood is he who is the image of the invisible God, he who is a firstborn of a New Creation, the firstborn of the dead giving him preeminence/ TO BE FIRST. Without this man nothing would have been made that was made.
Jesus is the first human to inherit God’s Spirit forever more, where he thus walks in all of God’s ways and thus has eternal life and thus is an eternal Son. Our hope is to be joint heirs with him, to drink of the same cup of the One Spirit that he drinks of.
This was all of God’s WORD from the beginning.
Jodi
Yet again you have taken a passage and ignored the surrounding context to make it fit your doctrine, and you continue to not apply scripture with scripture,
Me
It is NOT my doctrine but the doctrine OF God.
Anyone who reads the first chapter of John under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit understands that the one named “THE WORD” is the Son of GOD.
Even without reading REVELATION 19.🙏
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