- This topic has 25,920 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 1 day, 1 hour ago by
.
- Posts
Hi All,
1 John 1:1-2 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; for the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was WITH the Father, and was manifested unto us.
Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. 40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;
Jesus IS our Heavenly Father’s WORD that was from the beginning made true. The WORD that was WITH God, the WORD OF LIFE that was FROM THE BEGINNING, was made true in Jesus when he was resurrected from the dead.
2 Timothy 1: 9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: 20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
Acts 2:Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it
Our Heavenly Father’s WORD from the beginning was not only a promise of eternal life unto mankind but also His WORD before the world even began, was that of the first man who would receive that promise and that he would also be the man who makes it possible for all others to receive it. His glory is even greater, as when this Son of Man returns in our Father’s glory, he get’s to fulfill our Heavenly Father’s WORD that was from the beginning, giving eternal life to all those who believe.
CARMEL you said, COULD THE FATHER HIMSELF COME ON EARTH AS A HUMAN AND DO WHAT JESUS DID EVEN DIE?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
I said ,” he (Jesus) , could not have “himself” Created anything” , why?, Because He couldn’t. Then You have ““cleverly” switched subject matter from Jesus to God the Father…. So lets let scripture answer you OK?Scripture says (not me)…….Num 23:19, God is “NOT”, a “MAN”, that he should lie; neither the, “Son of man”, that he should repent: So there you go Carmel, using the words “COULD” the Father do this or that, is a , mute point, because scripture say “clearly” he is not those things”.
Also i really don’t believe God could ever die, because if he did “die”, all creation would cease to exist, IMO.
Carmel, the question still remains, Do you people “truly” believe what God the Father, Jesus, and the prophets. said or not?
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel…………..gene
Jodi…….Good post . Please check on line the “21st Century Reformation” site , And tell me what you think.
Peace and love to you and yours Jodi………gene
Hi Berean,
Yes, as you said, “him” being JESUS CHRIST, but you are turning the image of Jesus Christ into a false image.
Jesus is a name given to a human, a human born according to YHVH’s word. His virgin birth, his ancestry as he was born a seed of Abraham and that of David, also all according to YHVH’s word.
Jesus’s name means YHVH is salvation, and Jesus of Nazareth received YHVH’s Spirit without measure where then he was sent out to fulfill YHVH’s will, that which we know was YHVH’s purpose before the world began, salvation and eternal life for humans.
Through the Spirit, which also descended upon Jesus according to YHVH’s WORD, Jesus spoke YHVH’s words and did works in YHVH’s name as the works that he did were by following YHVH’s commands, why we are told that God did the works through him and thus why Jesus’s name means YHVH is salvation.
The anointed Jesus shedding his blood on the cross was even according to YHVH’s WORD before the world began and he went to the cross according to YHVH’s will, not his own and he was able to deny his own will through the power of the Spirit that lived in him, the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Fear of YHVH.
Furthermore, when we are given the WORD of YHVH concerning a Son of Man who would received HIS Spirit, a calling to righteousness, where YHVH would hold his hand and keep him to fulfill HIS covenant an oath that YHVH SWORE, this very YHVH SAID that HE created the heavens and stretched them out and HE spread forth the earth and all that come out of it.
When are you going to be honest with the truth Berean?
Jodi
Of course the name of THE SON OF GOD “IN THE BEGINNING” was not Jesus, for Jesus is his name WHEN HE WAS MADE FLESH.
BUT HIS NAME IN THE BEGINNING IS “THE WORD OF GOD”, BECAUSE IT IS HE WHO SPOKEN IN THE BEGINNING TO CREATE HEAVEN AND EARTH and all things.
John 1:3
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17] And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.THIS IS THE PURE TRUTH
Hi Gene,
You: CARMEL you said, COULD THE FATHER HIMSELF COME ON EARTH AS A HUMAN AND DO WHAT JESUS DID EVEN DIE?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
I said ,” he (Jesus) , could not have “himself” Created anything” , why?, Because He couldn’t.Then You have ““cleverly” switched subject matter from Jesus to God the Father….
Me: Geene, read again how we discussed things!
YOU: Jesus plainly said he himself could do “nothing of himslf” ,
so how could he have ever created anything.
ME: from the above it is more than clear that your interest is not for the truth, but to honour the Father more than the son!
Scripture is clear Gene, read:
John 5:23That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father.
He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.
John 10:30 I and the Father are one.
Gene, The above is pure truth, YOU NEVER DISCUSS THE SON JESUS WITHOUT ALSO REFER OR INVOLVE ALSO THE FATHER, THEY ARE INSEPARABLE, AND IN THE SAME TIME DISTINCT.
Now read what I said:
ME: Gene You keep on repeating the same reasoning that JESUS COULD DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF, But your carnal reasoning with every respect is so corrupted that you never see the other side of Jesus’ own words.
WHAT IS THE OTHER SIDE OF JESUS’OWN WORDS Gene?
Scripture:
John5:16 Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, because he did these things on the sabbath. 17But Jesus answered them: My Father worketh until now; and I work.
Ok Gene, both the Father and the Son work IN ONE SAME INSTANT!
THEY ARE ETERNALLY INSEPARABLE!
JESUS’ WORK IN GENERAL IS THE FATHER’S WORK ETERNALLY!
IF THE FATHER CREATES JESUS ALSO CREATES.
THE FATHER WAS MAN IN JESUS ON EARTH, FROM BIRTH!
Scripture:
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie, nor as the son of man, that he should be changed.
THE PURE FACT Gene, THAT
GOD IS THE TRUTH AS MAN IN JESUS!
GOD IS NOT THE SON OF MAN THAT HE SHOULD BE CHANGED, BUT
THAT HE IS THE SAME IN JESUS:
GOD!
THE FACT THAT WHILE JESUS WAS ON EARTH, HE WAS ALSO IN HEAVEN, LIKEWISE, WHILE THE FATHER WAS ON EARTH IN JESUS, HE WAS ALSO IN HEAVEN IN ONE GLORY WITH JESUS! John3:13
MORE OF THE OTHER SIDE OF JESUS’OWN WORDS!
Scripture:
John 5:18 Hereupon therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he did not only break the sabbath, but also said God was his Father,
MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.
The Jews concluded Gene, that JESUS MADE HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD! Let’s see!
19 Then Jesus answered, and said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you, the Son cannot do anything of himself,
but what he seeth the Father doing:
IN THE ABOVE JESUS NEVER MEANT THAT HE CANNOT CREATE, HE SIMPLY MADE IT CLEAR THAT HE AND THE FATHER ARE INSEPARABLE, HE CANNOT DO ANYTHING ONLY OF HIMSELF!
Gene, JESUS, AND THE FATHER ARE ONE!
THE FATHER WORKS, JESUS WORKS, AND VICE VERSA.
THE FATHER CREATES, JESUS CREATES. AND VICE VERSA. Attention please and read:
John 5:19….for what things soever he doth, these the Son also doth in like manner.
As clear as crystal Gene,
JESUS CANNOT DO ANYTHING OF HIMSELF, ALL BY HIMSELF ONLY FOR SURE, BUT FOR SURE ALSO HE DOES ALL TOGETHER WITH THE FATHER AS
JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE ALWAYS INSEPARABLE
ONE GOD!
John5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things which himself doth: and greater works than these will he show him, that you may wonder. 21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life:
so the Son also giveth life to whom he will.
Gene, it seems more than clear to me that Jesus in the above, for sure HE DOES THINGS BY HIMSELF, EVEN
RAISES THE DEAD AND GIVES LIFE TO WHOM HE WILL, EVEN TO HIMSELF, I’M AFRAID!
22For neither doth the Father judge any man,
but hath given all judgment to the Son.
ANSWER Gene, DOES JESUS JUDGE BY HIMSELF? HERE IT COMES:
23That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father. He who honoureth not the Son, honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.
24Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath life everlasting; and cometh not into judgment, but is passed from death to life.
ANOTHER TRUTH above Gene which you deny!
UNLESS YOU HEAR JESUS’OWN WORD, SINGULAR,
HIS SPIRIT WITHIN YOUR HEART, James 1:21 AND BELIEVE THAT JESUS, YOUR FIRST LOVE, WAS SENT BY THE FATHER, YOU WILL NOT HAVE ETERNAL LIFE!
BELIEVE IN GOD, ON EARTH ONLY, IS NOT ENOUGH Gene,
NO JESUS NO FATHER, NO FATHER NO JESUS!
25 Amen, amen I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given the Son also to have life in himself: 27And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is the Son of man. 28Wonder not at this; for the hour cometh, wherein all that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God. 29And they that have done good things, shall come forth unto the resurrection of life; but they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of judgment.
30I cannot of myself do anything.
DEFINITELY, JESUS AND THE FATHER ARE INSEPARABLE, ATTENTION AND READ:
As I hear, so I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will,
but the will of him that sent me.
AS JESUS’ WILL IS THE FATHER’S WILL AND VICE VERSA!
YOU: Then You have ““cleverly” switched subject matter from Jesus to God the Father….
NO Gene, I NEVER SWITCHED ANYTHING AT ALL, AS ONCE WE DISCUSS JESUS WE ALSO DISCUSS THE FATHER!
John 14:7 If you had known me, you would without doubt have known my Father also: and from henceforth you shall know him,
and you have seen him.
8Philip saith to him: Lord, shew us the Father, and it is enough for us. 9Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me?
Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.
How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?
NOW, SINCE YOU HAVE A CLEARER UNDERSTANDING OF THE OTHER SIDE OF
JESUS’ OWN WORDS WHEN HE SAID:
I CANNOT OF MYSELF DO ANYTHING!
WHICH IS DEFINITELY NEVER A REFERENCE THAT JESUS NEVER CREATED ANYTHING!
Answer please:
COULD THE FATHER HIMSELF COME ON EARTH AS A HUMAN AND DO WHAT JESUS DID EVEN DIE?
YES OR NO PLEASE!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel….Are you able to just stay on one point at a time instead of jumping all over the place confussing issues ? THE ANSWER to your statement that Jesus is just as great a God the Father is , is spoken by Jesus himself, (not me). “my Father is greater then all”. YOU TAKE that as Jesus saying , “my Father is greater then all except me” . Nor do you believe Jesus whenhe said (not me) , “the son of man can do nothing of himself” ,
My question to you is, why don’t you “truly” believe Jesus , trying to make Jesus equal to God the Father, is Idolatry, didn’t God the Father say CLEARLY, “YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME” , YES OR NO please.
SO TURNING the Man Jesus into your GOD, and being equal to him, MAKES YOU WHAT?, A TRANSGRESSOR of the commandments of God the Father., Scripture says (not me) …. “Sin is the trangression of the law”.
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel………gene
Hi all
IN THE BEGINNING….The Word WAS WITH (the)GOD AND WAS GOD….
….and without HIM was not any thing made that was made.
HIM 👉ONE PERSONGod bless
Hi Gene,
You: Carmel….Are you able to just stay on one point at a time instead of jumping all over the place confusing issues ?
First and foremost, unless you answer my question, I mean REFERRING TO:
COULD THE FATHER HIMSELF COME ON EARTH AS A HUMAN AND DO WHAT JESUS DID EVEN DIE?
YES OR NO!
I will never even comment on this issue.
You: Carmel….Are you able to just stay on one point…..
Me: Now my entire post was TOTALLY FOCUSSED TO
JUST ONE POINT!
I mean that Jesus with his statement that HE CAN DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF,
HE NEVER MEANT THAT HE CANNOT CREATE ANYTHING BUT HE SIMPLY MEANT
THAT HE COULD NEVER DO ANYTHING JUST ONLY OF HIMSELF AS HE AND HIS FATHER ARE INSEPARABLE, AND HE WAS NEVER AT ALL BY HIMSELF AT ANY TIME THROUGHOUT HIS ETERNAL EXISTENCE ONE SUBSTANCE AND DISTINCT OF THE FATHER, BOTH BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, John 17:5, AND ALSO THROUGHOUT HIS TIME ON EARTH, FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD, Rev.13:8. AND ITS CREATION Hebrews 1:2 SINCE THE FATHER DID ALL THROUGH AND BY HIM.
This is well asserted by Jesus’ own words in
John16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, and it is now come, that you shall be scattered every man to his own, and shall leave me alone;
and yet I am not alone,
because the Father is with me.
Thus I REPEAT ALL MY POST IS FOCUSSED ENTIRELY ON THAT ONE POINT, and the ONLY moment Jesus was left ALL BY HIMSELF, in a way, was precisely when He FULFILLED REDEMPTION FOR HUMANITY on the cross where JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, IN ORDER TO ENCOUNTER DIRECTLY SATAN FACE TO FACE FOR THE SAKE OF THE TRUTH, WAS GIVEN ALL THINGS/POWER INTO HIS OWN HAND BY THE FATHER, WELL CLEAR IN
John13:3Knowing that the Father had given him all things into his hands, and that he came from God, and goeth to God;
THIS MEANS THAT DESPITE HIS FATHER LEAVING HIM, JESUS ALL BY HIMSELF, BUTCHERED ON THE CROSS, JUST BEFORE HIS DEATH, WAS IN HIS MOST POWERFUL STATE EVER, “FOR POWER IS MADE PERFECT IN WEAKNESS” Corinthians 2:9”
IF YOU WANT TO KEEP ON DISCUSSING THIS PARTICULAR PERCEPTION OF
“JESUS COULD DO NOTHING OF HIMSELF” ANSWER MY QUESTION PLEASE
EITHER YES OR KNOW WITH RESPECT TO MY QUESTION!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel…….A man who crys out , “my God , my God”, hast thou forsaken me” and then dies is not a man with “any” power. In facr you completely miss the whole message of Jesus and his life, which was to show usxall his “FAITH’ and “TRUST” in GOD THE FATHER, Lets face the truth Carmel, you simply do not believe what Jesus says or said do you?, He said (not me), “the son of man can do “NOTHING” OF himself”. You either believe him or not , thats the real question here , jumping all around with all kinds of devicieve opinions of yours is just another way of you saying, you , “truly”, do NOT BELIVE WHAT Jesus said, do you?
Jesus also said , “NOT MY WILL BE DONE, BUT THY WILL BE DONE.” that clearly shows he was subservant to his God and our God , his Father and our Father. You proberly don’t believe that either. Jesus whole life was “ALL” about his “FAITH” in God the Father, not faith in himself.
The Jesus you blind guides have created, is not the True Jesus of scripture, the Jesus you preach is the one found in 2ths2. a “man”, siting in the temple of God, “being desplayed as a God. ” Thats the Jesus you preach, and Jesus with his “own mouth”, will destory those false teachings and those who teach it, at his return . Just as scripture says he will. Repent while you can Carmel
Peace and love to you and your Carmel…………gene
Hi Gene,
YOU:Carmel…….A man who crys out , “my God , my God”, hast thou forsaken me” and then dies is not a man with “any” power……
ME:I have an answer for the above Gene, but
ANSWER HEREUNDER FIRST ,
COULD THE FATHER HIMSELF COME ON EARTH AS A HUMAN AND DO WHAT JESUS DID EVEN DIE?
YES OR NO!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel, …..THE ANSWER IS “NO”, BECAUSE ALL CREATION WOULD HAVE DIED , IF HE DID THAT.
Scripture tell us ……. that, God upholds all the creation by the power of his might, so how could he do that if he were to die? You point is mute, unless you have something else in mind. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Hi Gene,
Carmel, …..THE ANSWER IS “NO”, BECAUSE ALL CREATION WOULD HAVE DIED, IF HE DID THAT.
Me: Consequently the FATHER COULD NOT DO ANYTHING OF HIMSELF DIRECTLY not only regarding redemption but also regarding the entire creation since redemption would be for all, and also to reconcile all in Him for the Father.
Gene, God required another EQUIVALENT DIVINE BEING IN EVERY SENSE to BE A SERVANT and fulfill His task for Him. Well asserted hereunder in
Philippians 2:For let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7But emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men, and in habit found as a man. 8He humbled himself, becoming obedient unto death, even to the death of the cross. 9For which cause God also hath exalted him, and hath given him a name which is above all names: 10That in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those that are in heaven, on earth, and under the earth: 11And that every tongue should confess that the Lord Jesus Christ is in the glory of God the Father.
John 5:18 Hereupon therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he did not only break the sabbath, but also said God was his Father,
MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD.
Any offense against the infinitely good, holy, and perfect God requires an infinite atonement, NO?
Thus, in order to achieve that, God required a divine being OF HIMSELF, OF HIS OWN SUBSTANCE AD INTRA TO REPRESENT GOD, not a mere human AD EXTRA of cursed satanic earth, and make the atonement. Well clear in
Psalm 49: 7 No brother can redeem, nor shall man redeem: he shall not give to God his ransom,
Only in that manner, it could be accomplished by GOD HIMSELF, and becoming one of us to redeem us.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Gene,
YOU: Carmel…….A man who crys out , “my God , my God”, hast thou forsaken me” and then dies is not a man with “any” power
Hebrews 2:14Therefore because the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself in like manner hath been partaker of the same:
that, through death,
he might destroy him who had the empire of death,
that is to say, the devil
Gene, Read the above and ask yourself ONE WHO DESTROYED THE DEVIL SIMPLY BY DYING IS FOR YOU
WITHOUT POWER?
Gene, Jesus Himself said to Paul that POWER IS PERFECT THROUGH WEAKNESS!
SO JESUS IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH GLORIFIED AND IN THE SAME INSTANT DESTROYED TOTALLY THE DEVIL FROM THE ENTIRE PHYSICAL CREATION. Well pinpointed out in
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Yes Carmel, you have one thing right, God is our savior!
Where you are in error however though is with relevant biblical facts.
Jesus’s God and Father who is our God and Father is our savior, He saved us according to His plan He established before the world was, even the man Jesus of Nazareth shedding his blood to pay for our sins was determined by our God and Father from the beginning.
Jesus could do nothing of himself, it was by reason of our ONE TRUE GOD THE FATHER resting His Spirit in Jesus that we are saved. Jesus received the Spirit of YHVH and as Jesus himself quotes YHVH’s WORD of YHVH from Isaiah, the PURPOSE of receiving the Spirit was for him to then free captives, delivery people from darkness, to set us at liberty.
All was accomplished by our ONE TRUE GOD THE FATHER through HIS POWERFUL SPIRIT, ALL DONE ACCORDING TO HIS WORD SPOKEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAS!
Hi Gene,
You: Carmel………Jodi just gave you your answer,
let it be mine also.
Me: Fine, from now on, Gene,
OFFICIALLY, ALL MY POSTS TO YOU ARE ALSO DIRECTED TO Jodi! And vice versa!
YOU AND Jodi are ONE!
HERE IT COMES Jodi,
You: Yes Carmel, you have one thing right,
God is our savior!
ME: Wait, wait, Jodi, read again what I posted please:
Only in that manner,
it could be accomplished by GOD HIMSELF, and becoming one of us to redeem us.
NOW LET’S SAY YOU DID READ MY POST, OF WHICH I REALLY DOUBT THAT YOU EVER DID READ IT, NEVERTHELESS,
WITH RESPECT TO MY POST, SPECIFICALLY SPEAKING,
IN/BY WHAT MANNER GOD THE FATHER ACCOMPLISHED BOTH CREATION AND REDEMPTION?
I REPEAT BE SPECIFIC AND IN DETAIL PLEASE.
YOU: Where you are in error however though is with relevant biblical facts.
Me: The above Jodi is not sufficient, ONLY SCRIPTURE JUSTIFIES YOUR UNDERSTANDING, SO SIMPLY PICK ANY PART OF MY POST AND CONTRADICT ME USING SCRIPTURE PLEASE!
IN THE MEANTIME MINE POST STANDS.
You: Jesus’s God and Father who is our God and Father is our savior,
Me: In the above, Jodi, with every respect, UNLESS YOU EXPLAIN HOW GOD IS OUR FATHER, YOU DON’T REALLY ASSERT THAT YOU KNOW WHAT THE TERM
GOD AND FATHER MEAN IN RELATION TO HUMANITY IN FLESH AND BLOOD.
You: He saved us according to His plan.
ME: EXCELLENT!
Yes according to His plan, WHAT PLAN PLEASE?
Read again please WHAT I WROTE TO Gene, which disturbed your CARNAL MINDED UNDERSTANDING, with every respect, and contradict me please using scripture.
On the other hand, I will EXPLAIN WHAT GOD’S PLAN IS, ALWAYS SUBJECT TO THE HOLY SPIRIT.
BUT THAT IN THE NEXT POST!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
.CARMEL……..Jesus said (not me)………“GOD IS A SPIRIT” , so please tell us in what way God is different then Spirit , and while your at it tell us, how was God the Father ““IN” Jesus, if not by his SPIRIT?
JESUS SAID (not me)……“the Father who is “IN” me “HE”, does the works” , and again, “the Son of man can do “NOTHING” of himself”. and again, God was “IN” Christ Jesus, reconcilling the world unto himself”.
Scripture says, (not me)……“that God may be “IN” ALL, and “through” ALL”.
“ALL” THINGS PERTANNING TO ETERNAL LIFE, ARE ACHIEVED BY THE “spirit of the living God. In us all, IMO.
Trying to make Jesus equal to the Father , by saying God couldn’t do anything without Jesus, is smply not true, it’s God “alone ” who is doing all things “in” “his” , creation, “himself”. Jesus said (not me) “all things were possible with God”, question is do you “truly” believe him? Trying to make it be the other way around is a false teaching, because without God nothing could exist. IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours Carmel……….gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
