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Hi Mike,
YOU: Is it scriptural that God did miracles through His holy servant Jesus? Is it scriptural that God has done miracles through many of His other servants throughout the Bible?
YOU: Carmel: Again Mike, NOT QUITE PRECISE…
ME: YOU NEVER ASKED THE ABOVE QUESTION BEFORE and I NEVER ANSWERED IT, Mike.
WHAT IS THE REASON THEN THAT YOU MADE IT LOOK LIKE I ANSWERED IT BY
PUTTING MY ANSWER FROM MY LAST POST?
WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABOVE QUESTION YOU ASKED NOW.
YOU: Carmel, please just answer the two questions above this time. Thanks
NO Mike, not so quick unless we make sure about certain fundamentals.
THUS, TO REFRESH YOUR MEMORY READ AGAIN WHAT YOU ASKED IN THE POST BEFORE THIS ONE:
YOU: God can do similar and even greater miracles through any one of us.
ME: Again Mike, NOT QUITE PRECISE:
OK, Mike, there is a HUGE difference between,
GOD CAN DO SIMILAR MIRACLES THROUGH ANY ONE OF US, from
GOD DID MIRACLES BY JESUS AND THROUGH OTHERS SCRIPTURALLY.
NOW, BETWEEN THE PROCESS OF THE OT. AND THE PROCESS OF NT.
JESUS TRANSFORMED ALL GOD’S TASKS ON EARTH, PRECISELY
FROM CARNAL UNDER MOSES LAW TO SPIRITUAL UNDER
JESUS’ SPIRITUAL LAW, THE FACT THAT
GOD THE FATHER HIMSELF FOR THE FIRST-EVER TIME ON EARTH WAS EMBODIED IN JESUS HIS OWN SUBSTANCE
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH AS A HUMAN,
OK, Mike,
JESUS SERVED THE FATHER BY BEING HIS UNIQUE CARRIER, HIS UNIQUE ABODE!
THE TRIUNE GOD IN FLESH.
GOD DID LOADS OF MIRACLES IN THE OT. THROUGH HIS SERVANTS WITHOUT BEING AT ALL DIRECTLY IN THEM; SIMPLY, AS HE WAS PRECISELY INDIRECTLY IN THEM BY HIS OWN SPOKEN “WORD” JESUS, THE ABODE OF GOD, AS A SPIRIT, THE ONLY SPIRIT/MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND HIS CREATURES
ON HIS WAY TO BECOME HUMAN.
SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8
THUS CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE,
CAN YOU SEE THAT THE WAY GOD DID MIRACLES
BY JESUS, IN JESUS, AND FOR JESUS
WAS A HELL OF A LOT OF DIFFERENCE Mike! READ:
John15:22If I had not come,
and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23He that hateth me, hateth my Father also.
ATTENTION Mike:
24If I had not done among them
the works that no other man hath done,
they would not have sin; but now they have both seen and hated
both me and my Father. 25But that the word may be fulfilled which is written in their law:
They hated me without cause.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE Mike BETWEEN
GOD ‘S WORK BY JESUS, WHO SERVED THE FATHER AS HIS UNIQUE EMBODIMENT,
AND GOD’S WORK BY JESUS “THE WORD” AS A SPIRIT, SIMPLY THROUGH OTHER SERVANTS ONLY IN/BY THEIR WORK!
GOD IN THE OT. AS MENTIONED FURTHER UP, WAS NOT EVEN EMBODIED IN ANY OF HIS SERVANTS AS THEY WERE NOT OF HEAVEN BUT
OF SATANIC EARTH.
On the other hand, GOD IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IN JESUS WAS
ONE WITH HIS OWN SUBSTANCE Hebrews 1:3,
WITH HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON FROM CONCEPTION OF THE HOLY GHOST
ALL FROM HEAVEN, AND
NOTHING OF SATANIC EARTH!
OTHERWISE, GOD WOULD HAVE BEEN SUBJECT TO SATAN. THIS IS ASSERTED BY JESUS IN
John 14:30 I will not now speak many things with you.
For the prince of this world cometh,
and in ME, he hath not anything.
WHAT A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOD’S WORK IN/BY JESUS AND
GOD’S WORK THROUGH OTHERS SCRIPTURALLY!
Mike please respect GOD’S WORK and don’t put
GOD DIRECTLY IN JESUS IN THE SAME BASKET AS
GOD DIRECTLY IN JESUS, “THE WORD” IN ALL OTHER HUMANS.
NEVER MIND GOD CAN DO GREATER MIRACLES THROUGH ANYONE OF US, AGAIN:
UNLESS YOU ACCEPT THAT
IN THE NEW TESTAMENT ONLY
GODMAN JESUS
CAN DO GREATER MIRACLES THROUGH ANY ONE OF US
HUMANS ON EARTH!
KEEP IN MIND Mike, THAT GOD THE FATHER IS IN HIS
LONGEST REST!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Mike: Do you see the great deep of waters under the earth?
Proclaimer: Oh yeah, I see it. What is below that? Or does the water go forever and ever and ever?
From my same post… We are not told what – if anything – is below the waters that are below the earth… only that below the earth is water.
Mike: [In your model,]Where are the waters below the firmament? Where are the waters above it? Heck, where is the firmament, in which God placed the sun, moon, and other lights and set them on appointed circuits over the earth so we could determine times and seasons? Where are the windows of heaven that God opened in Noah’s day to let the flood waters in from above?
Proclaimer: Wouldn’t it be the sea that is below the firmament. And the waters above is the sky above us. Is there not water in the atmosphere?
That would place the firmament at sea level – with the waters above the firmament being the atmosphere, and the waters below the firmament being the sea. But God placed the lights of the sun, moon and stars in the firmament – and those lights don’t run circuits over the earth at sea level, right?
Also, you didn’t address my original point about you and LU looking up to God’s throne at the same time from opposite sides of your ball earth. Did the illustration help you? Do you now understand what I was saying? Do you accept and admit that both of you couldn’t possibly look up above your heads into the sky and see God’s throne surrounded by 24 other thrones at the same time? Do you accept and admit that heaven would be both up and down at the same time for each of you?
And finally (for the 12th time)… King David told us that the sun runs a circuit over the earth. Was King David LYING to us? Yes or No?
Mike: Is it scriptural that God did miracles through His holy servant Jesus? Is it scriptural that God has done miracles through many of His other servants throughout the Bible?
Carmel: YOU NEVER ASKED THE ABOVE QUESTION BEFORE and I NEVER ANSWERED IT, Mike.
I did ask it. In fact, this second time I just copied and pasted the same questions from my previous post.
Carmel: WHAT IS THE REASON THEN THAT YOU MADE IT LOOK LIKE I ANSWERED IT BY
PUTTING MY ANSWER FROM MY LAST POST? WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ABOVE QUESTION YOU ASKED NOW.
I know your answer had nothing to do with the questions I actually asked. Your answers rarely do. But that is why I copied and pasted the same questions again, in the hope that you would answer them this time. I even added this to the end of my copied and pasted questions… Carmel, please just answer the two questions above this time. Thanks
So for the love of God, man… just answer the questions this time. (It only takes two words to directly and honestly answer them.)
Hi Mike,
YOU: God’s firstborn Son has exactly the amount of power and authority that his and our
God grants him.
ME: NO MIKE,
NOT QUITE PRECISE
GOD THE FATHER, EVEN BEFORE JESUS’ PASSION,
GRANTED (not grants) JESUS THE ENTIRE POWER OF THE DEITY!
John13:3 Knowing that the Father
HAD GIVEN HIM (even before the world was) all things into his hands,
and that he came from God, and goeth to God;
YOU: His and our God could absolutely grant Jesus the power to do anything He could do…
ME: the above again
IS NOT QUITE PRECISE Mike!
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying:
All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
The above Mike asserted that Jesus HAS ALL POWER and is in command of
ALL THE SPIRITUAL PROCESSES AND THE PHYSICAL PROCESSES!
John17:10 And all my things
(PHYSICAL and HUMAN) are thine, and thine
(SPIRITUAL DIVINE) are mine;
and I AM glorified in them.
ONLY JESUS RIGHT NOW POSSESSES THE GLORIFIED BODY BOTH
SPIRIT AND FLESH IN ONE INSTANT!
JESUS GLORIFIED BODY CONSISTS OF TWO BODIES FUSED INTO ONE,
ONE SPIRIT, and ONE FLESH, WITHOUT BEING DETRIMENTAL IN ANY WAY AND INSTANT, TO EITHER THE SPIRIT OR THE FLESH.
THUS WHILE JESUS RIGHT NOW CAN MANIFEST HIMSELF IN HIS FLESH HUMAN BODY AS HE WALKED ON EARTH IN ALL THINGS LIKE HIS BRETHREN, A BODY ANTICIPATED ON MOUNT TABOR, HE WHILE BEING PHYSICALLY IN FLESH WOULD BE ALSO IN THE SAME INSTANT
SPIRIT.
THIS IS CONFIRMED BY JESUS IN
John 6:39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me:
that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing;
but should raise it up again on THE LAST DAY.
PRECISELY ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS,
HIS LAST DAY ON EARTH!
THE FACT THAT JESUS IMMEDIATELY ON HIS DEATH, WAS IN HELL FIRE IN
HIS UNIQUE GLORIFIED FLESH/SPIRIT BODY!
SUPERIOR TO FIRE!
MOSES’ BURNING BUSH AND NOT BEING CONSUMED!
CONSEQUENTLY, JESUS ACCOMPLISHED THIS TRANSFORMATION TASK OF
THE FLESH INTO SPIRIT, OF WHICH
HE POSSESSED ALREADY IN ONE GLORY WITH THE FATHER BEFORE THE WORLD WAS, John17:5
FOR THE SAKE OF THE HUMAN RACE, A TASK WHICH ADAM REJECTED.
Mike I keep on reminding you GOD THE FATHER IS IN HIS
LONGEST REST!
YOU: but Jesus’ God hasn’t granted him that much power. A very lot of power to be sure, but not that much.
Mike read again THE ABOVE, AND RESPECT SCRIPTURE
ALL POWER is given to me in heaven and in earth.
YOU: Jesus even tells us, “the Son can do nothing by himself”, right? (John 5:19)
ME: WHICH ASO CONFIRMS THAT THE FATHER CAN DO NOTHING BY HIMSELF ON EARTH AS A HUMAN SINCE HE IS A SPIRIT!
Mike, Jesus even tells us :
John16:15 All THINGS whatsoever the Father hath,
are mine.
Therefore I said, that he shall receive OF MINE, and show it to you.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel, here’s a screenshot of where I asked you those questions a week ago…
So forget all the rest of the nonsense, and just answer those two questions please.
Mike: God’s firstborn Son has exactly the amount of power and authority that his and our God grants him.
Carmel: NO MIKE, NOT QUITE PRECISE
Matthew 28:18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth.
What I said is 100% precise…
1 Cor 15:27… Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
The One who is in a position to PUT all things under the other one is the One who is the most powerful. The other one will never have as much power as the One who put all things under him.
Jesus has exactly as much power and authority as his and our God, YHWH, grants him. No more, and no less.
Mike
WHAT THE FATHER “IS” THE SON IS ALSO, PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING …. SINCE THE TIMES OF ETERNITY … AMEN!
IT’S CLEAR !?
HEBREWS 1: 3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person …..Micah: 5: 2
…. whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Hi Mike,
YOU: What I said is 100% precise…
1 Cor 15:27… Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
The One who is in a position to PUT all things under the other one is the One who is the most powerful.
ME: the above is only human reasoning!
GOD’S PROCESSES HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH HUMAN PROCESSES.
Jesus emptied Himself of His DIVINE SPIRIT, and He offered Himself for the love of the Father and His kingdom, the fact that it is the kingdom of the Son. Now while the Father remained in heaven in His original Glory with Jesus ad INTRA, ad EXTRA He was hidden in Jesus, a SPIRIT as “THE WORD” of God, in the process of creation, the Father needs the Son and the son needs the Father, a perfect harmony. By which process Jesus emptied and poured His Spirit eternally sealed in creation as eternal life in all creatures, John6:27. Thus while He emptied Himself and became as weak as humans, spiritually in creation HE WAS THE MOST POWERFUL, but again in this process, He always remained in the oneness of the triune God. The Father in the Son and the Son in the Father, one substance, despite distinct!
YOU: The other one will never have as much power as the One who put all things under him.
ME: PURE HUMAN REASONING!
Isaiah 55:8For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.
YOU: Jesus has exactly as much power and authority as his and our God, YHWH,
grants him. No more, and no less.
WRONG!
GOD THE FATHER GRANTED JESUS
ALL POWER EVEN BEFORE CREATION AD EXTRA, WHY?
SIMPLY AS THE FATHER IN HIS FULL POWER WAS ETERNALLY HIDDEN IN JESUS, SUPPORTING AND STRENGTHENING HIM, AS HIS OWN SPOKEN WORD, BY WHICH GOD COMMUNICATED AND CREATED ALL.
JESUS RIGHT NOW AND TILL THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD IS THE MOST POWERFUL.
JESUS OWNS A UNIQUE BODY BOTH SPIRIT AND FLESH IN ONE INSTANT!
THE FATHER’S PLAN AND INTENTIONS FOR THE SAKE OF
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON AS CHILDREN OF GOD.
John1:3 All things were made BY HIM: and without him was made nothing that was made.
AND WITHOUT HIM THE FATHER WAS NOT IN THE POSITION TO CREATE AT ALL, SIMPLY AS JESUS IS THE ONLY SPIRIT/MEDIATOR BETWEEN GOD AND HIS CREATURES, PRECISELY ATTACHED DIRECTLY WITH CREATURES, THE LIFE OF ALL. THE FATHER WOULD HAVE DESTROYED IMMEDIATELY HIS CREATURES IN THE LEAST SPECK OF SIN INTENTION. SOMETHING WHICH THE FATHER WOULD AND COULD NOT DO SO LONG JESUS IS IN ALL. IT WOULD BE A SUICIDE, DESTROYING HIS OWN SPIRIT, DESTROYING HIMSELF.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
What I said is 100% precise…
1 Cor 15:27… Now when it says that “everything” has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
The One who is in a position to PUT all things under the other one is the One who is the most powerful. The other one will never have as much power as the One who put all things under him.
Jesus has exactly as much power and authority as his and our God, YHWH, grants him. No more, and no less.
What Mike says here is exactly right. If you are arguing against this, then you are not arguing against Mike, but the New Testament which is fine. But remember what you are arguing against. Don’t shoot the messenger.
Mike
WHAT THE FATHER “IS” THE SON IS ALSO, PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY SPEAKING …. SINCE THE TIMES OF ETERNITY … AMEN!
IT’S CLEAR !?
HEBREWS 1: 3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person …..Micah: 5: 2
…. whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Nothing here teaches that there were two Gods or two who are God.
It actually fits nicely with the rest of the New Testament.
The first to be with God was the Word.
The Word became flesh.
He was beheld as Jesus Christ who came in the flesh.
The head of Christ is God just as the head of Man is Christ.
He was begotten of God. He is divine. Emptied himself. Took on flesh. Died. Rose again. Is back in the glory of God.
Also, you didn’t address my original point about you and LU looking up to God’s throne at the same time from opposite sides of your ball earth. Did the illustration help you? Do you now understand what I was saying? Do you accept and admit that both of you couldn’t possibly look up above your heads into the sky and see God’s throne surrounded by 24 other thrones at the same time? Do you accept and admit that heaven would be both up and down at the same time for each of you?
No I do not accept that. The universe surrounds us in fact we are in it.
It’s like saying that we live in a forest and the owner of the forest resides outside the forest. So no matter what direction you look while in the forest, you are looking toward the owners residence.
Looking up is not about gravity and you do not even believe in gravity I think. Looking up is looking toward the Most High God. By his Spirit he can dwell in things that are supposedly above and below me. But he exists outside the universe, so no matter what part of the universe I look toward, I am looking toward where he is because it is written that not even the cosmos can contain him.
Mike you take things too literally and place them in a 3D space using 2D models. Your thinking is way to limiting for an eternal God who is above all dimensions.
And most language in the Bible is from our perspective because it is written for us. So yes, from our perspective I look up and you look up. There is nothing in scripture and science that says this is exactly the same direction is there. It is relative.
Just like the guy throwing the tennis ball in the train while going 100 mph. Wow he can throw it and catch it despite the speed and area that is covered while the ball is in the air. But because they are all contained and moving at the same speed, then you don’t notice it at all. Only when there is a sharp corner or acceleration and deceleration will you notice that you are actually moving.
Up in a spiritual sense is a higher realm. There are higher beings right. Are they higher because they are standing on a ladder?
Think about this for a second. If you went from Earth to Heaven in a heavenly chariot, yes you would ascend above the clouds and keep ascending till you were above the universe. That could be achieved from anywhere on the globe. Likewise, if you could shrink down smaller than the smallest particles what would you find there? Perhaps the Spirit of God? In a sense, that is up and down too right from our perspective? God is both outside and inside his creation. It’s not about a snow globe sitting on God’s mantelpiece. That is stone age thinking.
Have you not read how in the last days that knowledge would increase? You do a huge disservice to yourself with this flat earth teaching. When people feel convicted by what you say about God and Jesus etc, they will remember your teachings on the Flat Earth and brush all that you say off. Perhaps you have already discovered this with friends and family.
A little leaven works through the whole batch of dough.
Hi Proclaimer,
Nothing here teaches that there were two Gods or two who are God.
Me
The bible TEACHES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD THE FATHER, AND ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST. (1Cor.8: 6)
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT CHRIST IS NOT (before his incarnation) OF THE SAME PHYSICAL NATURE (SUBSTANCE, ESSENCE) AS THE FATHER.
GOD THE FATHER IS BIGGER THAN THE SON IN THE SENSE THAT HE IS BEFORE THE BEGOTTEN SON.
AS A HUMAN FATHER IS BEFORE HIS CHILDREN HE BEGET.HEBREWS 1
Who being the brightness of his glory, and THE EXPRESS IMAGE IF HIS PERSON, AND UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER, when he had BY HIMSELF purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
PERSON
5287
upostasiV
hupostasis
hoop-os’-tas-isfrom a compound of upo – hupo 5259 and isthmi – histemi 2476; a setting under (support), i.e. (figuratively) concretely, essence, or abstractly, assurance (objectively or subjectively): – confidence, confident, person, substance.
The bible TEACHES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD THE FATHER, AND ONE LORD JESUS CHRIST. (1Cor.8: 6)
THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT CHRIST IS NOT (before his incarnation) OF THE SAME PHYSICAL NATURE (SUBSTANCE, ESSENCE) AS THE FATHER.
GOD THE FATHER IS BIGGER THAN THE SON IN THE SENSE THAT HE IS BEFORE THE BEGOTTEN SON.
AS A HUMAN FATHER IS BEFORE HIS CHILDREN HE BEGET.Agreed.
Berean……Jesus SAID TO THE Father , that he was “the ONLY” , “true God”, and Jesus is not “LORD” Adonai , he is “lord” Adon, same as any human ruler is.
You really need to make a study on the difference uses of the word Lord in scriptures.
peace and love to you and your………..gene
Gene
Berean……Jesus SAID TO THE Father , that he was “the ONLY” , “true God”, and Jesus is not “LORD” Adonai , he is “lord” Adon, same as any human ruler is.
You really need to make a study on the difference uses of the word Lord in scriptures.
Me
Don’t belittle THE KING OF KINGS AND THE LORD OF LORDS
Revelation 17
These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
THE FATHER IS THE LORD GOD ALLMIGHTY
Rev.19
[1] And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:
[6] And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.Berean…..what does that have to do with the word “adonia”, LORD, GOD ALMIGHTY, and “adon” a judge or “human” ruler.
“The LORD, “ADONIA” Almighty God, said unto my lord “ADON” a human ruler or King , Sit on my right hand Until “I ” (almighty God) make your (Jesus ‘) enemies your foot stole.peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Berean…..what does that have to do with the word “adonia”, LORD, GOD ALMIGHTY, and “adon” a judge or “human” ruler.
“The LORD, “ADONIA” Almighty God, said unto my lord “ADON” a human ruler or King , Sit on my right hand Until “I ” (almighty God) make your (Jesus ‘) enemies your foot stole.Is that how its worded gene?
If so, you may have taught me something for the first time in these forums.
Hebrew Transliterated
110:1 LDVD MZMVUr N’aM YHVH L’aDNY ShB LYMYNY ‘yD-‘aShYTh ‘aYBYK HDM LUrGLYK.Darby’s English Translation
110:1 {Psalm of David.} Jehovah said unto my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put thine enemies as footstool of thy feet.
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