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Hi Berean,
I believe that your interpretation of various scriptures create contradictions with other scriptures.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Genesis 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
Isaiah 45: 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. 9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? 11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. 13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith the LORD of hosts.
Isaiah 45:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; 25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; 26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:
Isaiah 49:1 Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name. 2 And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified…. 5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength.
Isaiah42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. 5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house. 8 I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
Berean, these passages make several things very clear, but for now, I am going to give you just a few examples of the truth .
Jesus is not YHVH, Jesus is YHVH’s SERVANT.
YHVH is one person where there is no one like Him and no other true God but Him.
YHVH by Himself created heaven and earth, where He spoke in the beginning and the light was formed. YHVH also made Jesus for to be a light unto mankind.
Hi Danny,
Thanks for your reply!
YOU:
Hi Jodi, Who came in the flesh?
words or Jesus Christ?
Jesus came in the flesh and “is” still coming in the flesh today. Christ in you the hope of glory (Col 1:27).
1 John 4:2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
John uses the perfect tense here in Greek, meaning past action with continuing results in the present.
ME:
Jesus Christ came in the flesh.
My understanding,
Christ means anointed, which at the river Jordan Jesus of Nazareth was anointed with the Spirit, the only mortal man of flesh who received God’s Spirit without measure, who was THEN sent out into the world coming directly from heaven/from the will of YHVH to perform YHVH’s will. Such makes Jesus the anointed (Christos) into The Word of God spoken by Isaiah, made true in the flesh.
By that Spirit upon him, Jesus would not fail to fulfill what was required of him in order to bring forth The Word of Life, YHVH’s promise of eternal life.
Jesus in other instances we could rightfully say was The Word made true in the flesh, like when he gave his life unto death on the cross, and when he was resurrected from the dead becoming the firstborn of many brethren. Could we also say that when the Son of Man returns that too is The Word made true as he comes to sit on his father David’s throne according to the flesh?!
Hi LU,
Thank you, I’m doing pretty good! I hope all is well with you too!
YOU:
Regarding 1 John 2:23
Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.
From what I understand of your beliefs, you deny that there was a Son of God that existed in a living way in the image of his father, before creation.
It seems that you believe that the Son of God merely existed as a plan of God before creation and not as a living son.
Is that correct?
If that is true, you believe that there was a time when God was not a father. The plan to have a child does not make one a father. My 5 year old granddaughter plans to have a child someday but she is not a mother just because she plans on it. Surely you can agree to that??
ME:
I like how you put that, “in a living way”.
God= our heavenly Father whose hallowed name is YHVH
I say that so when I write the word “God” below you fully understand who I mean.
So to clarify and I guess be a bit technical, it’s not correct to say that I deny that there was a Son of God that existed before creation.
The celestial messengers of God are God’s Sons. They are eternally led by the Spirit of God, so thus they are eternal Sons of God. They existed prior to the creation we read in Genesis.
Yes, you are correct to say that I don’t believe that God’s Son Jesus existed before the creation of Genesis. Many scriptures make that very clear to me.
In human terms, a man planning to be a father does not make him a father because of that plan. Not until a woman has conceived of his seed does the man become an actual father. A human male can “plan” to be a father all he wants, but that itself doesn’t guarantee that he will actually ever become a father. This is not the same for God, for if He “plans” to be a Father such cannot be undone.
Moreover,
Ecc 3:14 I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him. 15 That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.
So to God, wouldn’t it be that if He plans to be a Father, that according to Him that does make him a Father from the moment of His plan?
Correct me if I am wrong, but you apply God our Father to exist as a certain kind of being where then Jesus is His only true Son as he exists as the same kind of being that God our Father is? Then in addition you believe that this Father and Son together make up our one God?
I on the other hand believe that there is but “one God the Father”, and that Jesus is a human who was born of the Spirit of God at the river Jordan where he became the only mortal man to be begotten of the Spirit without measure. That measure is a guarantee that one will not become worthy of death. I believe that God’s Spirit became a witness to Jesus’s human spirit that he is a Son of God. I believe that Jesus as a mortal man, was God’s only begotten Son as it applies to him being the only mortal human to be born of the Spirit without measure. Upon rising from the dead he BECAME A FIRSTBORN OF MANY BRETHREN, no longer an only begotten, as the context of such only applied to mortal humans. When he was brought back to life having received the PROMISED HOLY SPIRIT given to him for all eternity at a measure that causes him to walk in all of God’s ways, he became an eternal Son of God. This Son of Man who is a Son of God according to the Spirit, will return to earth. When the Son of Man does return, his faithful will be raised from the dead where they will be given not only a new heart of flesh but also they will receive the Spirit of God. That Spirit is promised to cause them to walk in all of God’s ways too. They by being led by the Spirit of God in all things for all eternity, will thus be also eternal Sons of God along side their King and brother Jesus as he sits on his father David’s throne according to the flesh.
Jodi
I am not against Genesis 1 WHERE It IS written That God created the heaven and the earth…..
WE Know Aldo That God CREATED by His WORD. ….OK?
Psalms 33:6 “By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath
of his mouth.”
The Hebrew word for “breath” is וחּר r ach) which is the same word translated ‘spirit’ in Genesis 1:2.
The meaning should be clear: the spirit of God is the breath of God. This is confirmed further by Jesus
in John 20:22 “And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the
Holy Ghost.” Jesus breathed His own Spirit, not someone else. It is this same spirit that is mentioned in
Genesis 1:2, “the Spirit of God”, which can also be translated “breath of God”.
“The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.” Job 33:4
The Spirit of God is equated with His breath. That is what the word means.Hi Berean,
You produce contradictions with your understanding and there can be no contradictions.
Psalms 33:6 “By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.”
YHVH’s word, YHVH’s own breath from His own MOUTH Berean!
Your response to me had not one word about the passages from Isaiah that I gave. Can you not speak to them showing that their given truths are held within your doctrine?
I’ll just assume you saw I posted Genesis read those two passages at the beginning of my post and decided to respond without reading the passages from Isaiah. Please read those passages!
We are told directly that YHVH created heaven and earth alone He says, by Himself He says.
Moreover, in the passages that speak of YHVH creating heaven and earth YHVH directly thereafter speaks prophecy of the son of Jesse saying that He WILL give His glory to him a glory that is not for anyone else to receive.
This son of man that would come from the seed of Jesse is identified as a future servant to our Creator YHVH where he will not speak his own words nor do his own works but do YHVH’s by the power of YHVH’s Spirit that is upon him. Through Jesus God is with us, hence why he is called Immanuel.
Berean, when Jesus was raised from the dead no more to return to corruption, he received the Holy Spirit according to a promise, where the Spirit of YHVH would eternally dwell within him. The prophecies concerning Jesus the son of Jesse carrying out YHVH’s will, performing YHVH’s works in YHVH’s name through YHVH’s Spirit ARE NOT YET COMPLETED.
John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
By the will of YHVH that Jesus followed and through the power of the Spirit of YHVH dwelling within Jesus, Jesus was able to give his disciples the Holy Spirit to receive. These disciples received the Spirit and were sent, just as Jesus had received the Spirit and was sent.
Hello All,
There can be NO CONTRADICTIONS!
Jesus IS an anthropos (HUMAN BEING) not some half-breed one of a kind being, nor is he some return to a previous being. He is a human being with God’s Spirit within him at a measure that makes him a heavenly man, a man who is led by the Spirit in all things and thus is a Son of God.
1 Corinthians 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
Acts 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; 31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption. 32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. 33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
1 Chronicles 17:11 And it shall come to pass, when thy days be expired that thou must go to be with thy fathers, that I will raise up thy seed after thee, which shall be of thy sons; and I will establish his kingdom. 12 He shall build me an house, and I will stablish his throne for ever. 13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him, as I took it from him that was before thee: 14 But I will settle him in mine house and in my kingdom for ever: and his throne shall be established for evermore.
Acts 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man’s seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.
Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him,Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Isaiah 11:1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. …. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. 10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
The promise was that the son of David would be a savior bringing forth life. The promise was that God would be a Father unto David’s son. The promise was that the son of David would be settled into God’s house. The promise was of a Son of Man being exalted to sit at God’s right hand. The promise is of a Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory. The promise is that by a man called by God to righteousness we will be judged, a man who knows by his own experience our suffering. The promise is that the son of Jesse with the power of God’s Spirit upon him will slay the wicked. The promise is that we will have a King who will reign with peace as he sits on his father David’s throne according to the flesh. The promise is that the son of Jesse will bring forth a glorious rest.
ALL THIS GLORY WAS OF GOD FOR THIS MAN JESUS BEFORE THE WORLD WAS and JESUS KNEW IT where he took his faith in The Word of Life to the cross. Before the world was God’s WORD was eternal life through the man Jesus Christ, whereby all things were thus created by reason of him and for him. Before Abraham and John the Baptist even existed Jesus was before them in rank as their future savior and king, God’s chief cornerstone. Without the anointing of the son of David for to become our savior, nothing would have been made that was made. God had declared from the beginning a man would come and execute His PURPOSE, an eternal earth filled with righteousness and eternal life, where Jesus would be it’s firstborn among many brethren.
Berean………What we say must take in consideration the whole bible ,not just one scripture here and there, that’s what causes all the misunderstandings we have here, if what we say does not meet all the scriptures written in scriptures then we produce counterdictions of all kinds, that is Jodie point and mine also.
If we say, for instance, Jesus created everything , and in other places in our texts it say the GOD alone and by himself created it all, then we have a contradiction, right? Then some come along and say we’ll yes God Did it , but “through” Jesus, but the text says God did it “alone” and by “himself’. So then that requires a intense research into the words used that caused the contradictions . For instance like the Greek word for “by” and “through” “dia” Which has other meanings then used in the text, which created the countradiction.
I am just giving you an examplej, because we have already went through that word many times here, both Jodi and I and many others. Words are important because they give us our understanding of what is being said right? And that is a major problem with the Greek language their words can have many different meanings, any true bible scholar will tell you that.
The point is , “truth is the sum of God’s words”. What we say must follow through the “whole” bible text not just some of it. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene
If Jesus Christ is just a man, why did Paul write, “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME (Gal. 2:20)?”
How can a mere man live in Paul and the rest of the New Testament believers all at once without also being God?If Jesus Christ is just a man, why did Paul write, “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME (Gal. 2:20)?”
How can a mere man live in Paul and the rest of the New Testament believers all at once without also being God?Hi Berean,
YOU:
John 10:18
No man taketh it (Jesus’s live) from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
The Father called the Son to arise, and by his divinity Jesus raised up his dead body (to give life again).HE OBEYED TO HIS FATHER:
ME: Berean, please read the passages before verse 18 and after so that you can have the true context to what Jesus is saying in that verse. Then as well apply what other scriptures say so that you don’t produce contradictions.
John 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep. 13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep. 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. 15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. 17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. …
…25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father’s name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Hebrews 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Acts 13: 29 And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. 30 But God raised him from the dead: 31 And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are My Son; today I have begotten You.’ 34 As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.’
Romans 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; 25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
Eph 1:20 which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places,
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Acts 3:15 but put to death the Prince of life, the one whom God raised from the dead, a fact to which we are witness.
Acts 4: 10 let it be known to all of you and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead—by this name this man stands here before you in good health.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.
Acts 10:40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,
Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle (not sent from men nor through the agency of man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised Him from the dead),
1 Peter 1: 21 who through Him are believers in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God
1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, that is Jesus, who rescues us from the wrath to come.
Berean, Jesus laid down his life in order to take life again for his sheep!
He didn’t lay down his life for the purpose to raise himself from the dead. Jesus went to the cross having faith that God was going to raise him from the dead and he went to the cross for the purpose to take life again for his sheep. I gave you a very good number of scriptures that say in fact that our one God the Father (NOT JESUS) raised Jesus from the dead. You also contradict what the definition of death is that the scriptures give us and I agree with what Gene said in his post to you about that.
Hi Jodi,
I have several thoughts towards your post to me, so to keep it short, for starters:
You stated:
The celestial messengers of God are God’s Sons. They are eternally led by the Spirit of God, so thus they are eternal Sons of God. They existed prior to the creation we read in Genesis.
I would love to know why you think the “celestial messengers of God” were there PRIOR to the beginning of the creation period as opposed to being created DURING the creation period.
Thanks, LU
Hi Berean,
YOU: I Believe That: The Father called the Son to rise AND the Saviour came forth from the grave by the life that was in Himself.
ME: Before I Comment on your perception I want to make you aware of what Jesus said regarding His PARTICULAR raising up, and also through Him, in the same manner, OUR ONE RAISING UP!
Read hereunder a scripture where Jesus was specific in this regard.
John6:39 Now this is the will of the Father who sent me:
that of all that he hath given me, I should lose nothing; but should raise it up again
in the last day.
40And this is the will of my Father that sent me: that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him, may have life everlasting, and I will raise him up in the last day.
Berean in the above Jesus spoke both of his raising up and also of all those who believe in Him.
Now notice Jesus mentioned that this raising up BOTH occur ON THE LAST DAY!
Reflect:
When is OUR LAST DAY on earth? Obvious when we die NO? so according to Jesus those who believe in Jesus, PRECISELY ON THEIR DEATH, they become ALIVE! This means that the body dies but the soul for the first time since Adam sin, THE FIRST LIVING SOUL WHICH DIED, commences its life in the spiritual realm. LIFE EVERLASTING! This is also asserted in
John5:24 Amen, amen I say unto you, that he who heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me,
hath life everlasting;
and cometh not into judgment, but is
passed from death to life.
OK. as clear a crystal FROM DEATH TO LIFE!
Now here comes what I am aiming to:
WHEN WAS JESUS, LAST DAY ONE EARTH? Obvious
on the cross!No?
My question is WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED ON JESUS’DEATH SINCE
HE RAISED HIMSELF UP?
AND THROUGH HIS RISING UP, all those who believe in Him also would be raised up by Jesus.
I WAIT FOR YOUR COMMENTS!
Hi Danny,
YOU:
If Jesus Christ is just a man, why did Paul write, “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME (Gal. 2:20)?”
How can a mere man live in Paul and the rest of the New Testament believers all at once without also being God?ME: Sorry this is a rather long post!
We are told specifically that Jesus is a human in a great number of places, so that is exactly what kind of being I believe him to be. If he was additionally some other kind of being he wouldn’t actually be a human but a different kind of being of which he then would have been called.
Prophecy was that a human would one day come to be our savior, that human arrived. Prophecy was that a human would sit at God’s right hand and return to earth to sit on an eternal throne. There is nothing in any scripture that tells me he is more than a human.
That fact that Christ lives within us doesn’t change what kind of being he is. To be honest with you, not just our heavenly Father and Christ live within me but also many other people live within me too. Someone not even in your presence but who is having a direct impact on your thoughts and actions is doing so because they live within you. Even when someone dies they remain IN your heart, they live on within you.
The anointed Jesus when he was on earth before he died he was a man but not an ordinary man, he had received the powers and all the fruits of God’s Spirit. When he rose from the dead he certainly was not ordinary between his eternal life and receiving the Spirit.
There is ONE SPIRIT that is greater than all, the Spirit of our one God the Father YHVH. Through Christ we get to receive that Spirit that will cause us to walk in all His ways for all eternity.
Danny, can I ask that you reflect on how Jesus was baptized and the Spirit came to abode upon him where we read in Isaiah 11 that he was promised to receive the Spirit of Wisdom, Understanding, Council and Might, Knowledge and Reverence for YHVH and John tells us that he received the Spirit not by measure. With that Spirit Jesus speaks God’s word and he speaks prophecy. With that Spirit he was able to discern the spirits of others. With that Spirit Jesus performed all manner of signs and miracle and was able to heal and even raise the dead.
Think about that before reading the below passage,
1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. 8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; 9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit; 10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: 11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will. 12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Mark 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? 39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
Galatians 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. … 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 37: 13 And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, 14 And shall put my Spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
When Jesus Christ was on earth he drank of the One Spirit, he represented the fullness of the Spirit/the entire body of the Spirit. As He sits at God’s right hand as we speak, he also has within him the full body of the Spirit to which God designed the eternal man to have. At Pentecost people also drank of the Spirit but they received only parts of the body/a certain gift of the Spirit, but together they then were the one body of the Spirit, as also Christ is one body of the Spirit individually. Besides these gifts of powers of the Spirit we also see people have various levels of the fruits of God’s Spirit according to His character. For example some people are more gentle and kind than others, some people have better self control than others. When Christ returns we are promised to be made righteous, to drink from the same cup that Jesus drinks of where the Spirit of our Father will dwell in us causing us to walk in all His ways. We too will not fail.
Galatians 2:19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
If one believes in the anointed Jesus that is Christ living in you.
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
Our belief in Christ where he then can enter into our hearts is the work of our One God the Father. By our Father’s Spirit in us we are able to have faith and come to the knowledge of the truth.
Hi Danny,
You gave Paul’s words, “I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live; yet not I, BUT CHRIST LIVES IN ME.
I am going to pull up some scriptures as to what Paul additionally says that specifically apply to this passage, helping to give it understanding, and share those with you.
Thanks for taking the time to ready my posts!
Hi Lu,
YOU: The ascension that Jesus speaks about when he says that he will raise himself up on the third day, IMO, is this one:
John 20:17
Jesus said to her, “Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.’
ME: Lu, The ascension, which Jesus was referring to, has nothing to do with His resurrection!
In the above, Jesus after resurrected Himself, declared that
HE WAS NOT YET ASCENDED TO THE FATHER!
When Jesus spoke to Mary Magdalene He meant that
HE WAS NOT YET ASCENDED TO THE HIGHEST STATE AND GLORY OF HIS FATHER!
When Jesus resurrected HE WAS EMBODIED WITH THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ALL IN HIM.
Jesus established the entire human race ALL AUTHENTIC BROTHERS IN HIM! 1Peter 1:3 declared by Jesus to Mary precisely ON HIS RESURRECTION and said:
but go to MY BRETHREN…… ONLY IN THIS INSTANT Jesus Himself declared that
HE IS OUR BROTHER, for the simple reason that
Jesus gave His own dead body to the human race!
Declared and predicted by Jesus’ own words in the last supper when he said:
Eat this is my body which is GIVEN for you…..
Jesus didn’t need it!
ONCE HE GLORIFIED HIS FLESH BODY ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS AND BECAME SPIRIT,
ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST John13:31-32, John4:36,37, John17:1
THE MAN BORN AGAIN mentioned by Jesus in
John3:3 Jesus answered, and said to him: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jesus in the above referred to Himself when He said that
UNLESS A MAN BE BORN AGAIN, HE CANNOT SEE THE KINGDOM OF GOD! THIS MEANS THAT
UNLESS HE RESURRECTS HE CANNOT ASCEND TO THE HIGHEST STATE AND GLORY OF GOD, THIS CONFIRMS THAT JESUS ON HIS RESURRECTION
WAS NOT PERFECT, PRECISELY
AN AUTHENTIC HUMAN BEING SINCE HE WAS EMBODIED WITH THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE,
by His own spirit ORIGINALLY SLAIN LIE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD AND ALSO SINCE ONLY GOD IS PERFECT! This means that Jesus after His resurrection,
WAS STILL YET TO BE GLORIFIED, TO ASCEND TO THE HIGHEST STATE OF GOD. Simply to be
INTEGRATED WITH THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS CHRIST GLORIFIED ON JESUS’ DEATH ON THE CROSS:
GODMAN ON EARTH!
A TASK FULFILLED THAT SAME EVENING!
This is also was represented in the cloth which covered Jesus’face which was found on its own neatly folded, which means IT’S NOT YET COMPLETE, FINISHED.
Similarly to, when a person is dining and has the napkin folded next to him on the table, which means that dinner is not finished.
The fact also that Jesus, THE MAN BORN AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, that same evening, after 6, the time HE INTEGRATED WITH THE HOLY GHOST, IN JESUS CHRIST;
GODMAN ON EARTH!
entered into the room where His apostles were DESPITE LOCKED, THROUGH WALLS!
Jesus, THE MAN BORN AGAIN, with this unification into ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST IN
JESUS CHRIST unified the entire human race with God in Christ; Well mentioned in
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be THE GOD and FATHER of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath
REGENERATED US
unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4Unto an INHERITANCE incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade,
reserved in heaven for you,
5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation,
ready to be revealed in the last time.
ALSO, JESUS CHRIST BY THIS UNIFICATION became
GOD OF ALL FLESH! Precisely
one earth Satan’s property!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
Back to my post, I feel I was not quite clear in my question, so I repeat again:
Now here comes what I am aiming to:
WHEN WAS JESUS, LAST DAY ONE EARTH? Obvious on the cross!No?
My question is WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURRED ON JESUS’DEATH SINCE
HE RAISED HIMSELF UP? AS HE SAID IN JOHN6, ALSO
ON HIS LAST DAY, ON EARTH, ON HIS DEATH
AND THROUGH HIS RISING UP, all those who believe in Him also
would be raised up by Jesus. confirmed in
John6: 40And this is the will of my Father that sent me:
that every one who seeth the Son, and believeth in him,
may have life everlasting, and
I will raise him up in the last day.
OBVIOUS: ON HIS DEATH ON EARTH!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Carmel,
I certainly do not agree with you in that post, sorry.
For instance:
The “giving” of his body was figurative, not literal. No one really ate Jesus’ flesh or drank his blood. He uses bread and wine as objects to remind us of his bodily sacrifice for our sins. Also, his body did not undergo decay because it was resurrected on the third day post crucifixion. On that same day, Jesus raised himself up to the Father after letting Mary see and touch him. That is when I believe Jesus “raised himself up.”
A week or so after Jesus rose from the dead on the third day, this happened:
Luke 24:39
See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you plainly see that I have.”
You can see that Jesus was in his body that he died in, albeit that it was glorified at the time Mary and Thomas saw him on the third day and later. Believers will be able to see the evidence of the wounds on his hands and his feet when they go to heaven and see him face to face.
Blessings, LU
Carmel,
You neglect this verse that tells when Jesus will raise himself up…
John 2
19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20The Jews then said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and yet You will raise it up in three days?” 21But He was speaking about the temple of His body. 22So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
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