JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?

[Berean]

 

THE SON OF MAN

88 matches.

Matt.8
[20] And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Matt.9
[6] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.
Matt.10
[23] But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
Matt.11
[19] The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Matt.12
[8] For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
[32] And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
[40] For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matt.13
[37] He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
[41] The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Matt.16
[13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
Matt.17
[9] And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
[12] But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
[22] And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men:
Matt.18
[11] For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
Matt.19
[28] And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
Matt.20
[18] Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
[28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Matt.24
[27] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
[44] Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Matt.25
[13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
[31] When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Matt.26
[2] Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.
[24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
[45] Then cometh he to his disciples, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: behold, the hour is at hand, and the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
[64] Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Mark.2
[10] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
[28] Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Mark.8
[31] And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
[38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.
Mark.9
[9] And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.
[12] And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.
[31] For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.
Mark.10
[33] Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles:
[45] For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
Mark.13
[26] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
[34] For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mark.14
[21] The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.
[41] And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
[62] And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Luke.5
[24] But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house.
Luke.6
[5] And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
[22] Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man’s sake.
Luke.7
[34] The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!
Luke.9
[22] Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.
[26] For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.
[44] Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men.
[56] For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.
[58] And Jesus said unto him, Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Luke.11
[30] For as Jonas was a sign unto the Ninevites, so shall also the Son of man be to this generation.
Luke.12
[8] Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
[10] And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.
[40] Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Luke.17
[22] And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
[24] For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
[26] And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
[30] Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
Luke.18
[8] I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
[31] Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
Luke.19
[10] For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
Luke.21
[27] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
[36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Luke.22
[22] And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!
[48] But Jesus said unto him, Judas, betrayest thou the Son of man with a kiss?
[69] Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.
Luke.24
[7] Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.
John.1
[51] And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
John.3
[13] And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
[14] And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John.5
[27] And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
John.6
[27] Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
[53] Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
[62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
John.8
[28] Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.
John.12
[23] And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
[34] The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man?
John.13
[31] Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him.
Acts.7
[56] And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Heb.2
[6] But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him?
Rev.1
[13] And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle.
Rev.14
[14] And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean….. the word “the” is a definite article,   that means that is what he “really” is. Your word games,  is simply you trying to foce our text to say what infact it is not saying. If I say “a car” or “the car”,  both are referring to “a” car ,  a car is any car, the car is a specific or paticular  car, but both are referring to a car.  

Jesus “is” exactly what he said he is,  “a specific  Son of man”.   No matter how much you try to twist the scriptures to force them to say what they in fact are not saying, it will not work, espically on those who have the “spirit of truth in them” , you or no one else “can” decieve them who have the Spirit of truth “in” them, it is not even possible to. 

Berean……here is another scripture you can twist up,

Acts 7: 37….. This is that Moses, which said unto the childern of Israel, “A” prophet shall the Lord your God  raise up unto you “of” (from) your “brethern”, “LIKE UNTO ME” ; him shall you hear”. 

Interesting Moses sure didn’t think Jesus was to come from any past existence,  he said that Jesus would come from one of the tribes of Isreal.  Seems you and Moses disagree with each other.

Another statement you made wrong,

Acts 7:55…..”but he, being “full of the Holy Gost (holy Spirit) , looked Into heaven, and saw  the Glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God.  Seems Jesus was not the only one “full” of the Holy Spirit. 

Seems Stephen was “himself full of the Holy Spirit, and he only saw “one” God, and the “man” Jesus standing at his right side.  

Tell us why didn’t he see “two” God’s  their, If Jesus is a God to?,  and please don’t give me this trinitarian “essence”, mystery thing.  thats what you people use to cloud the truth? 

Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene

 

 

[Berean]

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
[9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead(deity) (Colossians 2:8,9)

In Stephen there was no fullness of divinity.
It is one thing to be filled with the Holy Spirit and another to have the fullness of divinity bodily.
Jesus had / has BOTH.

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean. …..O really,

2 Peter 1 : 3-4  According as his ‘devine” power has given unto us “all” things that pertain unto life and Godliness, through the knowledge of him that has called us to glory and virtue:  whereby are given unto us exceeding great precious promises: that by these you might be partakers of the “devine nature”, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 

So now where is there a scripture that say Jesus is “full” of devine nature and we are not or cannot be.

You people never stop trying to make Jesus out to be complete different being then the rest of his human “brothers and sisters” do you? 

Berean Your doing exactly what Satan wants you to do and don’t’even know it. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours. ………gene

 

[Berean]

Gene

You don’t differentiate between being filled with the Spirit of God and having the Divine nature (being God)

[carmel]

 

.

 

[carmel]

 

HI Gene,

YOU: you people preach and believe Jesus is your Saviour,

and how to Worship him,

   I preach and believe GOD THE FATHER IS MY SAVIOUR

and the Saviour of all mankind and THE “MAN”, Jesus also.

 

Gene you simply LIVE not just TALK 

LIES

Read:

Philippians 3:7 But the things that were gain to me,

the same I have counted loss for Christ.

OK Gene?  FOR US HUMANS CHRIST IS THE ONLY WAY OR ELSE

ETERNAL DAMNATION! Keep on reading:

8Furthermore I count all things to be but

loss

for the excellent knowledge of Jesus Christ my Lord;

for whom I have suffered

the loss of all things,

and count them but as dung,

that I may gain Christ:

9And may be found

in him,

not having my justice, which is of the law,

but that which is of the faith of Christ Jesus,

which is of God, (IN CHRIST) justice in faith:

10That I may know

him,(CHRIST) and the power of

his resurrection,

and the fellowship of

HIS SUFFERING,

being made conformable to

HIS DEATH, 

11If by any means I may attain to the resurrection which is from the dead.

17Be ye followers of me, brethren, and observe them who walk so as you have our model. 18For many walk, of whom I have told you often (and now tell you weeping), that they are enemies of the cross of Christ; 19Whose end is destruction; whose God is their belly; and whose glory is in their shame; who mind earthly things.

 20But our conversation is in heaven;

ATTENTION Gene:

from whence also we look for the Saviour, our Lord Jesus Christ,

READ MORE TRUTH!

 21Who will reform the body of our lowness,

made like to the body of his glory,

according to the operation whereby also

he is able to subdue all things unto himself.

DID YOU NOTICE GENE THAT IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE

GOD THE FATHER IS NOT MENTIONED SIMPLY 

AS ONLY JESUS CHRIST IS

GOD OF ALL FLESH

GODMAN;

FOR US HUMANS IN FLESH, THE LOST.

NOT GOD THE FATHER! WE AS HUMANS IN ADAM OUR SPIRITUAL FATHER  BY HIS SIN

REJECTED GOD THE FATHER SPIRIT! AND 

GOD THE FATHER FURNISHED  US AND SENT 

HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, SPIRIT/MEDIATOR  AS MAN, BETWEEN HIS FATHER AND US HUMANS,

AS THE ONLY SAVIOUR AND OUR OWN KIND HUMAN GOD!

WE BELIEVE IN JESUS  WE BELIEVE IN THE FATHER!

John14:9 Jesus saith to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known me? Philip, he that seeth me seeth the Father also.

How sayest thou, Shew us the Father?

THUS THROUGH HIM WE GAIN GOD THE FATHER SPIRIT AGAIN, WHOM

ADAM OUR SPIRITUAL FATHER, REJECTED.

JESUS SPIRITUALIZED HIS FLESH BEFORE HIS PASSION THROUGH HIS HOLY LIFE BY WHICH ACT

HE SPIRITUALIZED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE

ALL IN HIM,

IN ORDER TO BE ACCEPTED BY THE FATHER.

ASSERTED IN

John15:1 I AM the true vine;

and my Father is the husbandman.

( WE AS HUMANS ARE IN JESUS,

IN HIS EMBODIMENT:

THE FIRSTFRUIT; WE WERE BORN, BAPTIZED, SUFFERED, DIED, RESURRECTED AND GLORIFIED IN HIM  )

READ:

2Every branch IN ME,

that beareth not fruit, he will take away: and every one that beareth fruit, he will purge it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3Now you are clean by reason of

THE WORD,(SINGULAR: HIS SPIRIT) 

which I have spoken to you.

4Abide in me,(IN JESUS’SPIRIT) and I in you.(HIS SPIRIT “THE WORD” IN US)

As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine,

so neither can you, unless you abide in me.

(NOT IN GOD THE FATHER, NOT POSSIBLE WITHOUT JESUS)

 5I am the vine; you the branches: he that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:

ATTENTION Gene:

 

for without me you can do nothing.

NO JESUS NO SALVATION!

NO JESUS NO GOD!!!!

READ:

 6If anyone abide not in me,

he shall be cast forth as a branch, and shall wither, and they shall gather him up,

and cast him into the fire, and he burneth.

THINK ABOUT IT Gene!!!

7If you abide in me, and my words (PLURAL: JESUS’ SPIRITUAL TEACHINGS THE NARROW ROAD) abide in you, you shall ask whatever you will, and it shall be done unto you.

8In this is my Father glorified;

that you bring forth very much fruit, and become my disciples.

9As the Father(SPIRIT)  hath loved me, (THE SON OF MAN IN FLESH) 

I (SPIRIT/MEDIATOR, SPIRIT/FLESH, BETWEEN THE FATHER AND HIS CREATURES) also have loved you.

Abide in my love.

10If you keep my commandments, (SPIRITUAL) you shall abide in my love;

as I also have kept my Father’s commandments,(SPIRITUAL)

and do abide in his love.

11These things (SPIRITUAL)I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you,(AS A SPIRIT) and

your joy (OF GOD THE FATHER) may be filled.(BY JESUS’ SPIRIT IN US)

YOU: and how to Worship him

WE WORSHIP JESUS AS IT IS THE ONLY WAY

TO WORSHIP THE FATHER!

John5:21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and giveth life:

so the Son also giveth life

to whom he will.

(EVEN TO HIMSELF FROM THE DEAD)

22For neither doth the Father judge any man, but hath given all judgment to the Son.

 23That all men may honour the Son, as they honour the Father.

ATTENTION Gene:

He who honoureth not the Son,

honoureth not the Father, who hath sent him.

 

Peace and love in Jesus Christ

[GeneBalthrop]

Carmel…..if you truly believed what Jesus said, then you would know Jesus alway said and showed us that it was his God that saved him and raised him up from death,  he alway gave God the Father the Glory,  for not only his life but his SALVATION also, he is the Way We need to , in our relationship with the Father inorder to be saved and that way is to put all of our Faith in God the Father  just as he did. 

As far as who is lying goes, it is you , because you say and  preach you’re  God is Jesus, and you trust in him for your salvation,  you say that,  but you do not do or believe in what he said,  or you would know it is God the Father who save us , just as he saved , “the man” Jesus. 

Jesus said this to God the Father, in prayer,  “I have glorified “YOU” on the earth”,   if you were obeying him you would be doing the same thing?  but you have replaced your God with Jesus, something Jesus never did. 

You obscure  the meaning of nearly every scripture you post. Change the wording to fit you false concepts.  You may call me,  a liar, but it is you who have bought into the biggest “lie” ever told, and worse yet,  preach it,  2ths2.  

Time is short , you had better start to getting  things right Carmel. IMO

Peace and love to you and yours. …………gene

[Berean]

Unitarians deny the divinity of Jesus, they are not in the faith handed down to the saints once and for all (Jude 1: 3) Believing in the divinity of Christ does not mean believing in the Trinity, for there is only one God Father YAHWEH.
BECAUSE JESUS IS GOD’S OWN SON (Rom. 8: 3), HE IS GOD BY NATURE.
THE JEWS CRUCIFIED OUR LORD, THEY DIDN’T BELIEVE WHAT HE “IS”

John 8: [24] I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

[GeneBalthrop]

Berean…..I believe Jesus is exactly he said he is, where are you getting the idea I don’t believe that from. I am not saying  Jesus dosen’t  have the devine nature, what I quoted to you from scripture was so do those who are being saved.  Having a devine Nature , does not make you a GOD OR A DEITY.   AS far as a son of God goes, all true believer are Son’s of God,  is that not what scripture says ,” know you not that “NOW” you are The SONS OF GOD” ? 

I AM NOT SAYING Jesus is not our lord or master either,  he is the head of the church of God. Who’s questing that? Not me , did he die for our sins ?, YES, he did,  but does that make him then not a real human being exactly like us, no it dosen’t.   He is a 100% pure human being who God Perfected , giving him his Spirit at the Jordan river, where he was born again by the Spirit of the Living God, the same thing has to happen to us  we must be born again of the Spirit exactly like him.

Inorder for us to be a Son of God we must have the seed (spirit) of God the Father in us also. In order for us, like him,  to over come this world and sin.

“who soever over comes, even as I have, I will grant to sit with me in my Kingdom, even as I have overcome and  am sit down in my Father’s kingdom. ,  it’s the same for us as for him, get it?

Peace and love to you and yours. ………..gene

[Berean]

Gene

You

“I believe Jesus is exactly what he said he is, where does the idea come from that I don’t believe. I’m not saying that Jesus doesn’t have divine nature, which I have you quoted in the scriptures, so are those who are saved. ”

Me

When the bible speaks of the divine nature of Jesus it means what is written in John 1: 1
Those who are saved do not have the divine nature because they are human beings but they can participate in the divine nature as Peter says through the Holy Spirit.
ONLY GOD THE FATHER AND HIS BEGOTTEN SON HAVE DIVINE NATURE: THEY ARE GOD.

Hebrews 1: 3(about Jésus)
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Colossians 1:15(idem)
Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

[mikeboll64]

Gene:  …they believe Jesus is “himself” God’s word…

Gene, they don’t believe Jesus is a literal word that God spoke.  See if you can follow this…

The King of Abyssinia had a spokesman called “Kal Hatze” – which means “the word of the king”.  This spokesman had “The Word of the King” as one of his NAMES.  He wasn’t a literal word, but he was a person who was NAMED “The Word of the King”.  So if someone said, “The King and his word are going to lunch together today”, they weren’t talking about the King having lunch with his literal words, but about the King having lunch with his spokesman.

Can you understand this?  Okay then…

God has a spokesman called “The Word of God”.  This spokesman has “The Word of God” as one of his NAMES.  He isn’t a literal word that God spoke, but instead a PERSON who was NAMED “The Word of God”.  So if someone said, “God and his Word are going to lunch together today”, it wouldn’t mean that God was having lunch with his literal words, but that God was having lunch with his SPOKEMAN who has the NAME “The Word”.

Do you understand what I’ve written?  Do you have any questions or comments?

[mikeboll64]

Berean: The Father speaking to the Son

And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands…

Berean, where can I read that the Father said these words to the Son?  Why would the Father (Jesus’ own God) call Jesus his Lord?  And why would the Father tell us that He alone created all things, but then turn around and tell us that his son did?

[mikeboll64]

Ed: Hi Mike,

Your wording suggests Jesus helped in creation,
which goes against the verse you just cited.

Could it not instead simply be by Jesus crucifixion, that
that is how God created the heavens and Earth “through” Jesus?
Then that would not violate God creating the heaven and earth “ALONE”

BUT if Jesus helped in ANY manor as you appear to be suggesting – that WOULD violate the verse.

I don’t know what it means exactly that God created all things through Jesus.  But in Genesis, God clearly says, “Let US create man in our image…”, right?  So wouldn’t that also go against God creating all things LITERALLY alone and LITERALLY by himself?

No, I don’t all all think God somehow poetically created the heavens and the earth through the crucifixion of Jesus thousands of years later.  Nor do I find any violation in my understanding.  To me, it would be like saying Bill Gates – and ONLY Bill Gates –  created Microsoft.  That would be a true statement, despite the fact that many underlings were involved in its creation.

[Proclaimer]

If God created all things alone, then he created me alone. Through my parents however. There is a process. God > Christ > Man.

[mikeboll64]

Mike:  Likewise, God alone created you, but He did that THROUGH your parents.

Ed:  If he did it “through” our parents, then he DIDN’T do it alone.

Your logic fails!

Yet the morning stars sang and the sons of God shouted for joy when God – alone and all by himself – laid the foundations of the earth.  And God said, “Let US make man…”

I believe my logic is as sound as Job’s and God’s.  You are free to disagree.

[Proclaimer]

If he did it “through” our parents, then he DIDN’T do it alone.

Your logic fails!

Really? Then reality fails.

[mikeboll64]

Carmel: Mike your reasoning above makes PERFECT SENSE,

ONLY WHEN IT IS A REFERENCE TO HUMAN BEINGS. 

HOW ON EARTH

YOU PUT GOD, CREATOR, IN THE SAME BASKET AS HUMANS, HIS CREATURES…

No I don’t, nor have I done that.  Jesus is the Word (spokesman) OF God, just as Kal Hatze was the Word (spokesman) OF the King of Abyssinia.

You need to learn/remember what the word “OF” means, Carmel.  If I am the son OF the President, than it is impossible for me to BE the President that I am the son OF.

And the fact that (according to scripture) Jesus is the Son, Prophet, Messiah, Lamb, Word, Priest, Holy One, Creation and Holy Servant OF God makes it impossible for him to BE the very God he is all those things OF.

[mikeboll64]

Berean: IN SUMMARY
BEFORE ABRAHAM COMES INTO EXISTENCE,

JESUS SAYS:

I AM

Berean, let’s switch “I AM” (which you think God’s name means) with God’s actual name as best we know it, “YHVH”.

So in your understanding, Jesus said, “Before Abraham existed, YHVH!”  What would that even mean?

In order for Jesus to have been making a claim of BEING God, he would need to have said, “Before Abraham was, I WAS God”, or “I WAS YHVH”, or “I WAS I AM”.

Many scholars – including the 25 Trinitarians who produced the NET Bible – think that God’s name has to do with “existing”, but can’t say whether “YHVH” means “I AM” or “I WILL BE”.

Here’s a clip from the NET notes on Ex 3:14…

Some commentators argue for a future tense translation, “I will be who I will be,” because the verb has an active quality about it, and the Israelites lived in the light of the promises for the future. They argue that “I am” would be of little help to the Israelites in bondage. 

The bottom line is that nobody today can say that God’s name actually means “I AM”.  And even if it does, Jesus still would have had to say, “Before Abraham was, I WAS ALREADY EXISTING AS I AM” for him to be making a claim of BEING God.

[Proclaimer]

@berean
Does the use of “ego eimi” automatically identify the speaker as Yahweh, the I AM? In Luke 1:19, the angel Gabriel said, “Ego eimi Gabriel.” In John 9:9, the blind man whose sight was restored by Jesus said, “Ego eimi.” In Acts 10:21, Peter said, “Behold, ego eimi (I am) he whom ye seek.” Obviously, the mere use of “ego eimi” does not equate one to the “I Am” of Exodus 3:14.

If you asked me if I was Proclaimer, then I could say, “I am”. And nobody in their right mind would think that I was claiming to be YHWH.

‘I am’ is simply a common response from people when asked if they are a particular person. Still in use to this very day. ‘I am’ has implications of existence of course as their is the understanding that if you are asked if you are Berean, then you reply, ‘I am’, which means yes you exist as Berean. And the fact that ‘ego’ is one of the words tells you that. And if God is the ‘I Am’, then he is the existing one.

[Author]

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