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Transliteration
prin (Key)
Pronunciation
pre’n (Key)
Part of Speech
adverb
Root Word (Etymology)
From πρό (G4253)
Greek Inflections of πρίν [?]
mGNT
13x in 1 unique form(s) TR
14x in 2 unique form(s) LXX
28x in 1 unique form(s)Πρὶν — 3x
πρὶν — 11x
Dictionary Aids
Vine’s Expository Dictionary: View Entry
KJV Translation Count — Total: 14x
The KJV translates Strong’s G4250 in the following manner: before (11x), before that (2x), ere (1x).
Outline of Biblical Usage [?]
before, formerly
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
πρίν prín, prin; adverb from G4253; prior, sooner:—before (that), ere.
Thayer’s Greek Lexicon [?](Jump to Scripture Index)
STRONGS NT 4250: πρίν
πρίν ((according to Curtius, § 380 comparitive προιον, προιν, πρίν)), as in Greek writings from Homer down:
1. an adverb previously,formerly (cf. πάλαι, 1): 3Macc. 5:28 3Macc. 6:4, 31; but never so in the N. T.
2. with the force of a conjunction, before, before that: with an accusative and aorist infinitive of things past (cf. Winers Grammar, § 44, 6 at the end; Buttmann, § 142, 3); πρίν Ἀβραάμ γενέσθαι, before Abraham existed, came into being, John 8:58; also πρίν ἤ (cf. Meyer on Matthew 1:18), Matthew 1:18; (Acts 7:2); with an aorist infinitive haying the force of the Latin future perfect, of things future (cf. Winer’s Grammar, 332 (311)): πρίν ἀλέκτορα φωνῆσαι, before the cock shall have crowed,Hi Gene,
YOU: Berean…..Jesus is the “only”, “begotten son”, (from mankind), of God,
Gene, YOU ARE CONTRADICTING EVEN YOURSELF IN YOUR MADNESS REGARDING JESUS’HUMAN NATURE!
HOW ON EARTH JESUS IS
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD AND ALSO
FROM MANKIND!
WHEN SCRIPTURES MADE IT CLEAR THAT
JESUS WAS ONLY
IN ALL THINGS LIKE HUMANS,
NOTHING IDENTICAL TO HUMANS!!!
YOU SIMPLY DECLARED THAT GOD IS
USELESS, AND INFERTILE.
READ GOD’S OWN WORDS:
Isaiah 66:1THUS saith the Lord: Heaven is my throne, and
the earth my footstool:
ACCORDING TO YOU GOD MADE HIS SON
OUT FROM WHAT HE MADE HIS FOOTSTOOL.
PURE MADNESS!
Isaiah 66:9 Shall not I that make others to bring forth children,
MYSELF bring forth, saith the Lord?
WHAT DOES THE WORD
MYSELF
TELLS YOU Gene?
shall I, that give generation to others,
BE BARREN, saith the Lord thy God?
WHAT DOES THE WORD
BARREN
TELLS YOU Gene?
JESUS HAD NOTHING ABSOLUTE NOTHING FROM MANKIND
IN RELATION
TO HIS CONCEPTION
read
Luke 1:3 And Mary said to the angel:
How shall this be done,
because I know not man?
THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR EVIDENCE THAT MARY, DESPITE ALREADY ESPOUSED TO JOSEPH, DECLARED
THAT SHE WAS NOT IN THE POSITION
TO KNOW MAN. AT ANY TIME!
35…..The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and
the power of the most High (GOD ALMIGHTY) shall overshadow thee.
From the above Gene, IT IS EVIDENTLY CLEAR THAT
NO TASKS OF ANY KIND ASSOCIATED TO MANKIND WAS INVOLVED!
IT WAS THROUGHOUT A DIVINE TASK,
AND IT LACKED NOTHING IN ORDER
FOR JESUS TO BE BORN IN ALL THINGS
LIKE (NOT IDENTICAL Gene)
HIS BRETHREN.
And therefore also the Holy which shall be born of thee shall be called
THE Son of God.(NOT A SON OF GOD as you preach)
Now to
Matthew 1:18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together,
she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost.
Gene, ANOTHER ATTESTATION THAT JESUS WAS NOT FROM MANKIND WHAT MORE DO YOUand Jodi WANT TO
ACCEPT THE ABOVE TRUTH?
THAT JESUS WAS
OF THE HOLY GHOST?
19Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying:
Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife,
for that which is conceived in her,
is of the Holy Ghost.
NOT FROM MANKIND,
NO SPERMA, NO DNA, NO OVUM,
FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S OWN PERSONAL WORK! IT IS
THROUGHOUT SPIRIT!
“THE WORD” MADE FLESH.
IN A TWINKLING OF AN EYE!
Isaiah 66:7
7Before she was in labour,
she brought forth;
before her time came to be delivered,
she brought forth a MAN CHILD
YOU: So far, he is the “firstborn” of “MANY “, BRETHERN”.
ME: Gene IN WHAT WAY, AND WHEN
JESUS BECAME THE FIRSTBORN OF
MANY BRETHREN?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Edj,
I love that you search for the impossible.
Hi Princess,
I don’t know what you mean, but it sounds like a complement.
( :
Carmel……when he was resurected from the Grave, he was the First one from humanity to be born into the kingdom of God and the first human being given eternal life. Evidently you don’t really believe Jesus was actually Dead, even though he said he was.
What do you do with Jesus saying he was a Son of Man around eighty times? Obvisely you really don’t believe what he said he was right?
Peace and love to you and yours……..gene
Proclaimer…… fix this site where it dosen’t log me out every day OK . I spent a hour writing a post to Berean and it would not posted because I was loged out. Leave me loged in if you can.
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Berean……I will try to repost to you again on the word Before, and a word study on what Jesus was addressing when he said that. In the mean time if you can go and reread that whole chapter, starting where they ask him if he was “greater” then Abraham and the prophets. The whole context is important in explaining several things including evidence of Jesus, not “preexisting” his birth on this earth. The words are there, you just probably never thought about it.
I will try to do it tomorrow if I can?
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Gene
You know I don’t believe in your biblical interpretations. So no need to try to show me that “prin” means something else in John 8:58 and elsewhere than what the king James bible expresses
Jodi: Mike,
ALL of scripture must agree, I do not see that at all with your doctrine, nor with the doctrine of others. If you don’t apply clear given truths to certain passages you are going to understand them incorrectly, which is exactly what you and others do with verse 58 of John 8.
Hi Jodi, I’m willing to invest some serious time and effort to get to the bottom of our disagreement. I see your claim above – that my doctrine somehow doesn’t align with ALL of scripture. I see it, I understand it, I completely reject it, and I can prove to you that it is an erroneous claim. I would like to do this in a private debate format, since I only make a few posts here every weekend or two. When I come back, there are multiple pages of discussions that I have to sift through to find out if YOU’VE addressed any of my arguments. Are you willing to do this in a private debate thread? Let me know. In the meantime…
Okay, I’ve made this point before, but never saw where you addressed it.
Matthew 3:9
And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
1: Do you believe that God could raise up children for Abraham out of stone that already exists on the earth, as John claims? Yes or No?
2: If God did raise up a child for Abraham out of stone that already exists on earth, would that child of Abraham be a human being who preexisted his humanity as stone? Yes or No?
3: If God had foretold about the future coming of this child of Abraham that He would one day raise out of stone, would it be true that this future child of Abraham preexisted as stone BEFORE God caused him to be a human child of Abraham? Yes or No?
Now I’m assuming that your answer to all three of those is Yes – because I can’t imagine any other way you could possibly answer them. And if so, then you should be able to understand that it is possible for there to have existed a human being who previously existed as something other than a human being. And the fact that this human being’s existence was foretold wouldn’t change the fact that he preexisted his humanity as something other than a human.
So IF the answer to those 3 questions is indeed YES, then surely you can understand that there isn’t a single scripture in the Bible that PROHIBITS a human being PREEXISTING as something other than a human being. After all, Adam technically preexisted his humanity as dust of the earth (ie: stone). And Eve preexisted as one of Adam’s ribs. So all of those wonderful scriptures you keep posting about how God would someday raise someone out of Jesse/David/a virgin that will be a ruler for Him don’t actually say a single thing – one way or the other – about whether or not this future “somebody” PREEXISTED his humanity as something other than human.
So what are we left with then? Well, we have you posting scriptures that don’t argue the point either way. And we have me posting scriptures that not only align perfectly with every scripture you post – but also clearly and unequivocally teach that Jesus preexisted his humanity as something other than human. And that makes your statement to me – “ALL of scripture must agree” – actually argue for me, and against you. Because YOU are the one who only wants to accept SOME of the scriptural teachings and disregard or illogically explain away others. I’M the one who’s doctrine incorporates “ALL of scripture”.
Let me know about a private discussion thread so I can easily find your responses and address them in the future.
Jodi: 58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
How confused are they? Jesus didn’t say he saw Abraham, he said Abraham saw him.
Actually, Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see Jesus’ day, ie: his earthly coming where he’d save Abraham’s descendants by offering himself as a sacrificial lamb to atone for their sins. But…
1: It’s true that the Jews took that statement to mean that Jesus had seen/conversed with Abraham – which was impossible in their minds because Jesus wasn’t even 50 years old.
2: Jesus did not AGREE with them, but instead CORRECTED them by pointing out that before Abraham even existed, he had already been in existence.
The pronoun/verb statement “I am” (the most common statement in any language) is not anything mystical, or a revelation of hidden truth. The statement means exactly what it means every other time Jesus (or anyone else in scripture) uttered the words “I am” (I am sick, I am hungry, I am tired, I am a disciple of Jesus, etc.) But as I explained very clearly in a previous post, there are certain problems when translating one language (with it’s own set of rules) into another (that has it’s own set of rules). In the Greek language, statements that are clearly past tense in English will sometimes be written in the Greek present tense. Maybe this will help…
This is a screenshot of NET Bible’s online page of John 14:9. ( http://classic.net.bible.org/verse.php?book=Joh&chapter=14&verse=9 )
Notice that every single translation above renders Jesus’ statement to Philip as a PAST TENSE statement. But in fact, it is the EXACT SAME statement (ego eimi: “I EXIST”), in the exact same Greek PRESENT TENSE that Jesus makes in John 8:58. So IF the Greek present tense and the English present tense corresponded perfectly, every one of those past tense “Have I been with you so long” translations above would be rendered as “I am with you so long”.
But we don’t talk like that in English. In English, your mom says, “I have been here for 2 weeks already, and it’s time for me to leave now”, not, “I am here for 2 weeks already, and it’s time for me to leave now”.
Now, please read the info in the yellow box that I’ve outlined in a red square. Learn about “historical presents”, and how most English translators render them as English past tenses – while some let them remain present tense even though it makes less sense to us in English. For example, here’s John 14:9 in Young’s Literal Translation:
Young’s Literal Translation
Jesus saith to him, ‘So long time am I with you, and thou hast not known me, Philip? he who hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how dost thou say, Shew to us the Father?But Young’s is one of the very few that don’t “fix” it for a better English understanding. Because clearly it flows better in English as “So long [of a] time I have been with you”, right? And that’s why the vast majority of English translations (including the KJV) “fix” it for us… because the translators know it is a Greek “historical present” and that it should be translated into English as a past tense statement.
Jodi, the clear and undeniable meaning of John 8:58 is this…
1: The Jews claimed that Jesus couldn’t have seen (or been seen by) Abraham since Jesus wasn’t even 50 years old.
2: Jesus corrected them by telling them that even before Abraham had existed, Jesus had already been in existence.
The correct English translation of 8:58 is…
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham existed, I existed.”
… just like the correct English translation of 14:9 is…
“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?”
Both are Greek historical presents, and both should be translated as English past tenses. The only reason the vast majority of English translation have the past tense “I have been” in 14:9 but keep the present tense “I am” in 8:58 is because they erroneously believe the name of God is “I AM”, and try to make 8:58 into some illogical claim by Jesus to BE the God named “I AM”. Of course that’s just silly – like all of the scriptural gymnastics the Trinitarians go through in an effort to make Jesus BE the very God he is the Son, Servant, Prophet, Angel, Messiah, Word (Spokesman), and Lamb OF.
Anyway, this is an example of the fun stuff we can learn together if you agree to the private discussion.
Jodi: Mike, the son of Jesse did not create the heavens and the earth, YHVH did…
I’ve never claimed that anyone other than Jehovah created the heavens and the earth. Scripture doesn’t ever teach that Jesus created these things. What scripture teaches is that God alone created them, and that He did that THROUGH His firstborn son.
Likewise, God alone created you, but He did that THROUGH your parents.
We’re not told in scripture exactly what it means that God created all things through Jesus… only that He did.
Jodi: As said, ALL OF SCRIPTURE must agree.
So let’s talk about, 1 Cor 15: 50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
Don’t forget this one…
John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
I realize you are trying to make a distinction between “flesh and blood” and “flesh and bone” – but they are just two popular ways to say the same exact thing. Jesus’ teaching above makes it clear that FLESH cannot even ENTER the Kingdom of God. Those humans who do enter God’s Kingdom are those who have been born again of something OTHER THAN flesh. So whether you choose to refer to humans as “flesh and bone” or “flesh and blood”, the fact that they are FLESH prohibits them from inheriting or entering the Kingdom of God. They must be born again to do so.
So while it’s true that Jesus was raised from the dead in the very same flesh body in which he died, it is equally true that he had to have had his flesh body “transformed into his new glorious body” (Philippians 3:21) upon his ascension to heaven (Acts 1:9-11), because he could not enter God’s Kingdom as a flesh being.
Gene: Maybe you not following what theses people are saying, they are not saying Jesus speaks God words to us , what they are saying is that The man Jesus “IS” “himself” God’s word. As I have said that’s like saying Peter is a “actual” rock, like you would find at a rock query some where.
I can’t comment on what somebody else may have said. I can only tell you that I have never said Jesus is literally any word that God spoke. Nor is Peter (who’s name means “rock”) a literal rock. So listen to what I’m saying, because I can only speak for myself…
One of Jesus’ many names is “the Word of God”. He is not called that because he is a literal word(s) God spoke. He is called that because he is God’s preeminent spokesman. Just like the spokesman for the King of Abyssinia was named “the Word of the King” (Kal Hatze). That human being wasn’t literally a word that the King of Abyssinia uttered, Gene. He was named “the Word of the King” because he spoke on behalf of the King. Jesus is named “the Word of God” because he speaks on behalf of God.
So no, Peter isn’t a literal rock. Jesus isn’t a literal word that God spoke. And Kal Hatze isn’t a literal word the King of Abyssinia spoke.
Mike , yes but that is not what they believe and teach ,, they believe Jesus is “himself” God’s word, they teach that when John said in the beginning was the word and the words was with God and the word was God. They transpose the word “word” written there as to be Jesus himself. They are not taking it as Jesus spoke God the Fathers words to us, but he “is” God the Fathers words.
They use that as a proof od Jesus’ preexistence. Something that passage is not even hinting at. That’s the problem Mike.
Peace and love to you and yours………gene
Mike , I am going to post about where Jesus said “before Abraham I am”, from the point in that chapter when it not only shows Jesus was not saying he existed befor Abraham, but where it also shows he wasn’t even there then. Jesus clearly implies it, by his own words. I am going to direct it to Berean but the rest can also commit on it.
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Hi Gene,
ME: Let’s refresh our memory Gene and go back to my/your WORDS:
YOU: So far, he is the “firstborn” of “MANY “, BRETHERN”.
ME: Gene IN WHAT WAY, AND WHEN
JESUS BECAME THE FIRSTBORN OF
MANY BRETHREN?
Now let’s refer to scripture Gene,
Romans 8:29 For whom he (GOD THE FATHER) foreknew, he also
predestinated to be made conformable to the image of his Son;
that he (JESUS) might be
the firstborn amongst MANY brethren.
JESUS,Gene, was THE FIRSTBORN
BOTH IN RELATION TO OUR SOULS and ALSO
IN RELATION TO OUR FLESH!
NEVERTHELESS, HE REDEEMED US IN OUR FLESH, FIRST
ON HIS DEATH ON THE CROSS
Now let’s read your REPLY! FULL OF
MISUNDERSTANDINGS /LIES
YOU: Carmel……when he was resurrected from the Grave,
he was the First one from humanity
ME: A PURE LIE HUMANITY CANNOT IN ANYAY REDEEM THEMSELVES!
YOU: to be
born into the kingdom of God
and the first human being given eternal life.
ANOTHER PURE LIE!
JESUS IS ETERNAL LIFE ITSELF
John11:25 Jesus said to her: I am the resurrection and the life:
BACK TO YOUR MISUNDERSTANDINGS/LIES
LET’S FOCUS ON YOUR PARTICULAR WORDS:
BORN AGAIN INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
NOW: JESUS WHEN HE RESURRECTED
WAS NOT YET
ASCENDED INTO PERFECTION IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
SINCE ONLY GOD IS PERFECT! NO?
THUS, HE WAS BORN FOR THE FIRST EVER TIME SIMPLY WHAT YOU IN ACTUAL FACT BELIEVE BUT UNAWARE OF
INDENTICALLY HUMAN IN EVERY SENSE
THE SON OF MAN
NOW to scripture again WHERE WE FIND THE PRECISE WORDS :
BORN AGAIN INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
John3:3 Jesus answered, and said to him:
Amen, amen I say to thee,
unless a man be born again,
he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Reading the above scripture Jesus confirmed that
HE, A PARTICULAR UNIQUE MAN,
WAS BORN AGAIN ON HIS RESURRECTION (as you well mentioned)
BUT JESUS, APART
HE REFERRED TO HIMSELF, HE ALSO IN THE SAME INSTANT REFERRED TO
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE, SIMPLY AS ON HIS RESURRECTION
HE WAS NOT ONLY BORN AGAIN HIMSELF
ALONE, BUT
AS THE PRIMACY, THE BEGINNING OF ALL BEGINNINGS, AS HE WAS IN ADAM
THE FIRST LIVING SOUL,
HE WAS EMBODIED IN HIMSELF WITH THE ENTIRE OF HIS OWN
KINGDOM OF THE FLESH!
THE KINGDOM OF THE SON IN THE FLESH.
OF EARTH, the generations of earth, NOT OF HEAVEN.
AS MUCH AS THE FIRST ADAM WAS ALSO EMBODIED WITH THE ENTIRE OF HIS OWN KINGDOM OF ALL SOULS. LOST THROUGH SIN, AND TRANSFORMED INTO MORTAL CURSED SATANIC FLESH AND BLOOD. THE FACT THAT HUMANS COULD IN NO WAY DO NOTHING BY /IN THEIR OWN CURSED FLESH OF THIS WORLD, AND NEEDED
A UNIQUE PURE FLESH FROM HEAVEN,
THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN.
BY WHICH FLESH
JESUS PERFECTED
THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE PRECISELY WHEN HE GAVE HIS OWN DIVINE FLESH AS A RANSOM, ATTENTION Gene:
IN EXCHANGE
FOR THE FLESH OF THE HUMAN RACE, ex satanic.
John5:36 But I have a greater testimony than that of John: for the works which the Father hath
HATH GIVEN ME TO PERFECT.
BY WHICH FLESH
JESUS WAS BORN AGAIN
FOR THE SAKE OF HUMANITY
ALL EMBODIED IN HIM. Well asserted in
1Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy
HATH REGENERATED (RECREATED) US unto a lively hope,
BY THE RESURRECTION OF
JESUS CHRIST FROM THE DEAD!
GOT IT Gene?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
JOHN 1:1 who is the WORD?
The false teachers in this topic do not believe that the world was made through him. These opening verses in John utterly destroys their teaching.
The Word that was with God
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.
John’s witness: The true light
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
The Word that was with God becomes flesh
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”
16 And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. 17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
Amen
The Father speaking to the Son
And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
[11] They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
[12] And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.Mike said:
Scripture doesn’t ever teach that Jesus created these things. What scripture teaches is that God alone created them, and that He did that THROUGH His firstborn son.Hi Mike,
Your wording suggests Jesus helped in creation,
which goes against the verse you just cited.Could it not instead simply be by Jesus crucifixion, that
that is how God created the heavens and Earth “through” Jesus?
Then that would not violate God creating the heaven and earth “ALONE”BUT if Jesus helped in ANY manor as you appear to be suggesting – that WOULD violate the verse.
____________
God bless
Ed J
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