- This topic has 25,921 replies, 116 voices, and was last updated 21 minutes ago by
.
- Posts
HI Jodi,
YOU: Berean,
For you to have any credibility in an accusation you need to quote something that I have said and show specifically how it is twisted against God’s word.
THE ABOVE jodi, APPLIES ALSO FOR YOU IN MY CASE.
SPECIFY ONE VERSE FROM MY POST
AND CONTRADICT ME USING SCRIPTURE PLEASE
IN THE MEANTIME
MINE STANDS
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
YOU:
Jesus came from heaven sent by God the Father; he himself is the LIVING BREAD FROM HEAVEN …
HE WAS WITH GOD AND HE WAS GOD …. THIS IS THE SIMPLE TRUTH.
Read John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?ME:
Like I said you don’t apply what Jesus said in John 17,
Jesus tells you that he was not of this world, as the apostles were not of this world. Jesus tells you as they were sent, he was sent. Jesus and the apostles were sent from God, down from heaven. Jesus and the apostles were sanctified in God’s word and the word was to bring forth salvation and eternal life to those who believed in that word. They spoke heavenly words not earthly words as they were not of the earth they were of heaven.
Berean, didn’t Jesus’s word contain his resurrection and our resurrection unto eternal life?
Didn’t God promise eternal life before the world began?
When Jesus was raised from the dead and people witnessed him, touched his flesh, they saw the BREAD FROM HEAVEN, they saw God’s WORD made true in the flesh. They saw the BREAD OF LIFE in seeing Jesus. They saw the word of eternal life made true in him. We are partakers of that bread we are told, we are partakers of eternal life.
Where the Spirit is there is righteousness and life!
When the Son of Man Jesus was raised from the dead having his flesh not see decay ascending up to life on earth where he was before, he received the promised Holy Spirit. We too are promised to have our graves opened where we are given a new heart of flesh and the Holy Spirit that causes our righteousness, to be able to walk in all of God’s ways. We are thus joint heirs with Christ being heirs of God’s Spirit. As Jesus inherited it according to a promise when he was raised from the dead we likewise inherit the Spirit according to a promise. As Jesus said, we are to drink of the same cup that he drinks of, and that which we drink is the One Spirit.
Carmel,
The given scripture is the truth, and with any given scripture the concluded understanding/meaning of it must align with all other scriptures. Many scriptures are not understood properly unless you have a firm knowledge of other scriptures and directly apply them.
You believe the bible holds hidden meanings and you quote scripture plugging in those hidden meanings and declare the hidden meaning as the truth. I can’t work with that. Thus I have zero interest in reading your posts and responding to them.
Proclaimer,
God is very detailed in His given word, the truth is in the details of His word and He gave us a very long book.
Details applied to details establishes for us His clear message.
I give you posts of scriptures containing CRUCIAL DETAILS and will also repeat exactly those details.
“Long posts” equate to 2-3 minutes of your time to read, good grief! It takes about 4,800 minutes for the average person to merely read the bible, and a whole lot more time re-reading to come to understand it.
You reply by saying you won’t bother to read them as you claim that “the devil is in the details”.
You like to defend your beliefs only within certain parameters so to keep your doctrine safe, that’s what I see.
Not quite Jodi. See how I am replying to your post with an answer. Why? Because you made a single point and I was able to respond in kind. Easy. When you raise multiple points, believe me, it takes a long response to fully cover it. Longer than the teaching itself. Because you can state multiple points each with a few sentences, but it requires paragraphs of information at times on responding to each point. Who can be bothered doing that everyday on one person for years? There are not only more important things in life like family and leading people to the kingdom, but there are also other people here to respond to. Surely, I do not want to hear God rebuke me for not being wise with the precious time he gave me. And why would you want to be that stumbling block anyway?
Hi Berean,
Yes his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Also let’s consider that Jesus’ given name means YHVH is salvation.
YHVH’s word that He Himself spoke regarding salvation,
Isaiah 45:9 Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, 10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure: 11 Calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country: yea, I have spoken it, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it, I will also do it. 12 Hearken unto me, ye stouthearted, that are far from righteousness: 13 I bring near my righteousness; it shall not be far off, and my salvation shall not tarry: and I will place salvation in Zion for Israel my glory.
Isaiah 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Hebrews 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the PROMISE of eternal inheritance.
Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Berean,
Through Jesus YHVH fulfilled His WORD OF SALVATION.
The given name of Jesus means YHVH IS SALVATION.
YHVH’S WORD THAT HE SPOKE FROM THE BEGINNING was not only a covenant of salvation, but also HIS WORD THAT HE SPOKE FROM THE BEGINNING WAS OF A MAN WHO WOULD EXECUTE IT THROUGH HIS BLOOD.
Such is WHY we read, “he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.”
Berean, but you don’t want to apply any of these scriptures. You want us to believe that Jesus pre-existed as someone else’s spoken word, which is hands down one of the most absurd nonsensical ideas I have ever heard.
In the beginning was the WORD (eternal life), and the WORD (eternal life) was with God to be fulfilled in us, and the WORD (eternal life) is God, God is life.
Not only in the beginning was YHVH’s word of eternal life with Him to be fulfilled, also YHVH’S word that a man would come and execute this word of eternal life, with Him in the beginning.
Also, those scriptures you quote are always about his humanity. I don’t have any issue with them so it is pointless quoting them. The contention here is not those scriptures but the other scriptures that you never quote and generally ignore.
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death — even death on a cross!Christ is, on the one hand, the perfect representation of God(Hebrews 1:3), and on the other, a perfect example of sinless humanity(Hebrews 4:15). Thus, Divinity and humanity were combined.
Hi Berean,
Yes his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Good. Now lets do a little test.
Jesus is his name. Okay Yeshua or whatever your preference is. If a person says are you Jesus? He says ‘yes’.
The Word of God is his name as you clearly state.
‘Are you the Word of God?”
Answer goes here Jodi: ____________.
Christ is, on the one hand, the perfect representation of God(Hebrews 1:3), and on the other, a perfect example of sinless humanity(Hebrews 4:15). Thus, Divinity and humanity were combined.
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.…
Could it be that he had divine nature, let that go (emptied himself) to take on human nature and now he is back in the glory he had with the Father (divine nature and privilege). And because of what he did, we can now look forward to a new body like the one he has.
by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature,
There is a physical body. So there is also a spiritual body. As the Scriptures say, “The first man, Adam, became a living person.” But the last Adam is a life-giving spirit. The spiritual man did not come first. It was the physical man that came first; then came the spiritual. The first man came from the dust of the earth. The second man came from heaven.
And further proof.
But our citizenship is in heaven, and we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables Him to subject all things to Himself, will transform our lowly bodies to be like His glorious body.
Proclaimer, could it be? Answer no, Jesus “existed” on this earth as a human being with that devine nature “in” him while hec walked this earth, or Don’t you believe what he said?, the son of man can do “nothing” of himself, the Father who is in him, “he” doth the works. Jesus had the devine nature “in” him “via” the Anointing Spirit of God.
What that scripture is saying is, even though he did exist with the devine nature, which was working “with him, he never tried to “steal Glory ” from God the Father by letting people think he was the one doing all those miracles. Instead he took on the status of a servant, because that is exactly what he was and is, even though he is a Son of God, just as Moses also was a servant of God, so was Jesus. Did not Moses tell us that?
The LORD shall raise up a prophet like unto me, unto him shall you heed. “All” true prophets are “servants ‘ of God. Jesus took on exactly what he was a servant of God, other scriptures say that same thing also.
Peace and love to you and yours………..gene
Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.…
I believe this over and above what you teach gene.
Existed in the form of God, emptied himself, became human (came in the flesh), humbled himself, and died for us.
But it didn’t stop there. God raised him up and now he is with God in the glory he had before the cosmos.
This is all written but you and Jodi think this is all irrelevant because he was a man, a prophet, and an offspring.
Like I have said before, you cherry pick the humanity scriptures and ignore the origin scriptures.
While you and Jodi are free to choose your beliefs, we are also free to believe all the scriptures.
Jodi said his name is the Word of God. We also know his name is Jesus.
Thus, is he Jesus?.
Yes.
Is he the Word of God?
Yes.
We can move on now. Your teacher has confirmed it.
Jodi
You
Hi Berean,
Yes his name is called The Word of God.
Me
John Say
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The Word was with God
17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
The Son existed Before the World was, he was with God
Jodi Is not it true ?
Proclaimer, please tell us what reason would God have to morph a “preexisting being” and pass him off as a “real” human being. GIVE US ONE REASON HE WOULD EVEN THINK TO DO THAT. How would that prove anything to mankind?
Why isn’t it clear to you people God was dealing with mankind, to show us how a “real” human being who was “exactly” in “every” way like we are , without exception, to show all humanity how a human being can become perfect in every way with God. What example to anyone human would it be to send a “preexisting” perfect being to earth , what would that deminstrate to us?, nothing!.
Why can’t you see, Satan wants us to think Jesus was different then we are, why?, because we then will not actually believe we can achieve the exact same thing he did , with the help of God . Satan’s “doctrines of Seperation” is exactly what he wants us all to believe. HE is the one who is behind turning the “image” (how we view Jesus) , into a God. Why?, because that would cause us to “seperate” our true “idenity” with him as another plain human being who shows us all how to have the exact same relationship with God the Father As he does.
GOD THE FATHER, is no respector of persons, what he did for Jesus he will do for us all, who have the exact same Faith in him as “the MAN Jesus. Jodi and I have tirelessly trying to show you all this from scripture after scripture , but you fail to understand it.
Jesus is simply another Adam (human being) who Is for mankind the ultimate perfection of mankind. He is what God the Father has in mind for us all, he is our true “human” example of what we all can become, and it’s not one ounce different then he is.
If you can’t see this clearly then Satan has control over you, by his “doctrines of Seperation”.
Proclaimer if you want this site to really take off , it is needful for you to come to see and understand this clearly, IMO.
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Hi All,
Proclaimer: Existed in the form of God, emptied himself, became human (came in the flesh), humbled himself, and died for us.
ME:
Hebrews 1::3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, WHEN he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
Deut 18: 18 I will RAISE them up a Prophet FROM AMONG their BRETHREN, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
Isaiah 49:5 And now, saith the LORD that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the LORD, and my God shall be my strength. 6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee FOR A LIGHT to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
Matthew 12: 18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my Spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles. 19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets. 20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Isaiah 53:12… because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
Philippians 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
John 12:44 Jesus cried and said,He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Proclaimer: Existed in the form of God, emptied himself, became human (came in the flesh), humbled himself, and died for us.
ME:
Out of brethren Jesus was chosen to receive God’s Spirit without measure to be for a light, sent out into the world being in the form of God, the “brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person”.
Though he received the Spirit and power of God and though it not robbery to be equal to God he declared that he could do nothing of himself.
He sought not his own will but to only obey the Father’s will, taking on the form of a servant.
He was made in the likeness of man, for even though he knew no sin, God made him to be sin for us.
He was found in fashion as a man when he was numbered with transgressors.
Though he was not worthy of death he humbled himself being obedient unto death, even death of the cross.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: The given scripture is the truth,
ME: John1:1 IN THE BEGINNING
was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was
IN THE BEGINNING
with God.
3All things were made BY
HIM:
and WITHOUT
HIM
was made nothing that was made.
4In HIM
was life, and the life was the light of men.
ME:1:14 And THE WORD was made flesh,
and dwelt among us,
(and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
15John beareth witness of him, and crieth out, saying:
This was
HE
OF WHOM I SPOKE:
HE
that shall come after me,
is preferred before me: (In the beginning was “THE WORD”)
because he was before me. (In the beginning was “THE WORD”)
John1:18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son
WHO IS
in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 3:13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man
WHO IS
in heaven.
John6:62 If then you shall see
the Son of man ascend up
WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?
John17:24 Father, I will that where
I AM
they also whom thou hast given me may be with me; that they may see my glory which
THOU HAST GIVEN ME,
because thou hast loved me
before the creation of the world.
YOU: and with any given scripture the concluded understanding/meaning of it
must align with all other scriptures.
ME: Answer Jodi, AREN’T THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES particularly ALIGNED?
YOU: Many scriptures are not understood properly ( LIKE YOU UNDERSTOOD ALL THE ABOVE)
unless you have
a firm knowledge of other scriptures (ME: SUBJECT TO WHAT KIND AND LEVEL OF KNOWLEDGE ONE POSSESSES)
and directly apply them.
YOU: You believe the bible holds hidden meanings
Matthew 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said: I confess to thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because
thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and
hast revealed them to the little ones.
Matthew 13:11Who answered and said to them:
Because to you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven:
but to them it is not given.
Jodi, as an example, hereunder I only produced a particular scripture for you to read.
Luke 12:49I am come to cast fire on the earth;
and what will I, but that it be kindled?
50And I have a baptism wherewith I am to be baptized:
and how am I straitened until it be accomplished?
51Think ye, that I am come to give peace on earth?
I tell you, no; but separation.
52For there shall be from henceforth five in one house divided: three against two, and two against three.
53The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against his father,
the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother,
the mother in law against her daughter in law, and
the daughter in law against her mother in law.
Now Jodi, answer: ACCORDING TO YOU again:
ALWAYS SUBJECT TO YOUR KIND OF KNOWLEDGE,
ISN’T THERE ANY HIDDEN MEANING IN THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE?
ARE THE TITLES SYMBOLICAL, or
ACTUAL or
BOTH?
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Proclaimer,
I am putting this post on this thread as it’s more appropriate, replying to your straw man argument comment.
This is the argument I put forth here and now okay.
The Son of Man Jesus was IN YHVH’s word from the beginning, not Jesus pre-existed in the beginning, nor did he pre-exist as YHVH’s word in the beginning.
I believe your stance is that all three above are true, and I would argue that only the first is true.
YHVH’s word declared from the beginning, that was then given to the prophets throughout time, became true in the flesh.
Without the word becoming true in the flesh, nothing would have been made that was made.
Jodi: MY ANSWER, THE SON OF JESSE ACCORDING TO ISAIAH 11, 42, 45, AND 61.
Hi Jodi, that is correct. So then would you agree that “the light” to whom John came as a witness is one and the same as “the son of Jesse”? Because scripture says that John came to testify about Jesus, and scripture also says that John came to testify about the light, right? So either John came to testify about two completely different things, or the one thing he came as a witness to was called both “Jesus” and “the light”. Let’s examine…
John 1
6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Okay, we agree that the one John came to testify about is Jesus – but we also must agree that John came to testify about “the light” – because it’s right there clear as day in scripture, right? So what else is said about this “light”?
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
Who or what was “coming into the world”? We know it’s “the light” from verses 4 and 5 – but could this “light” also be “Jesus”?
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Now we know that the world was made through this “light”, right? Because the pronoun refers back to “the true light” from verse 9, right? But is “the true light” actually Jesus?
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
So “the true light” came to a world that was made through him and belonged to him, but the world which belonged to him didn’t accept him as their rightful master, right? Here’s the clincher…
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Do you see it yet? The pronoun “HIS name” is still referring back to “the true light” that came into a world that was actually made through him, but didn’t accept him. The same “light” to whom John the Baptizer came as a witness… ie: “the son of Jesse” according to you. And that leaves only one question…
What is the one name given in all of scripture by which we can be saved?
Acts 4:11-12
This Jesus is ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.
So you see, “the light” to whom John came as a witness IS “the son of Jesse” – who bears the only name under heaven by which we can be saved by believing in that name.
John 3
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.
I hope you can see it now. The “light” that came into the world IS the one who bears the only name by which we can be saved, “Jesus”. And since the light IS Jesus, then it is Jesus who was with God in the beginning, and Jesus through whom the world was created, and Jesus who emptied himself of his lofty position in the heavens to be made as a human being – making him not only the offspring of David… but also the ROOT of David – just as he told us.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
