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THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF JESUS A SPIRIT BEING ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER
Who is the oldest, the Father or the Son, or are they exactly the same age?
Hi Jodi
Jesus comes from heaven: THE PLACE where God the Father is found
and the holy angels.
When he became a man, he lived in accordance with the will of his Father who is in heaven and it is ALSO THAT be of HEAVEN and not of the WORLD;Hi T8,
YOU: Who is the oldest, the Father or the Son, or are they exactly the same age?
ME: NONE
Read again the
PURE TRUTH:
THE PRE-EXISTENCE OF JESUS A SPIRIT BEING
ETERNALLY WITH THE FATHER
ONE SUBSTANCE and in the same instance DISTINCT as the case may be in relation to
GOD’S OWN WILL!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi, Jodi
YOU:Why do you suppose that the Kingdom OF Heaven and the Kingdom OF God,
MEAN the SAME THING?
ME: NO JODI
NOT THE SAME THING!
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Jodi
Jesus said very clearly in John :
6:38 for I CAME DOWN FROM HEAVEN to do, not my will, but the will of him that sent me.
and
6:62 [62] What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up WHERE HE WAS BEFORE?
Hi t8,
You asked who is the oldest, the father or the son or are they exactly the same age. I think this diagram will help:
If you look at the “closed mitosis,” we see one side giving part of itself to the other side. The side that gave would be the father to the side that receives, i.e. the son. The thing is, the first stage carries all the substance in one organism that ends up in two organisms, therefore, the substance in both is the same substance that was in the original. The original organism doesn’t become a father until it gives of itself and at that moment it gives of itself, it also becomes a son at the receiving end. The original becomes both a father and a son at the same exact time and both contain the same aged substance, eternal substance in the case of an eternal original organism. The Father is the giver, the Son is the receiver. The Father “grants” the Son to have eternal life within himself.
John 5:26
Just as the Father has life in himself, so also he has granted the Son to have life in himself,
I really hope that diagram helps you see how one eternal being, going through the process of begetting, becomes father and son at the same moment. The Father is the giver of eternal essence, the Son is the receiver of eternal essence. Both would be eternal in essence yet distinct in roles as giver and receiver. Their attributes are the same, their type is the same, their age is the same, their roles are different.
Blessings,
LU
To all……what is a word, ….”intellegent utterance”. JOHN 1:1…. In the beginning was, “intellegent utterance,” and intellegent utterance was with God, and “intellegent utterance” was God.
Words are SPIRIT, and what expresses “LIFE”.
Nothing complicated about it, only “mystery religion”, wants to complicate it, and use it to confuse others.
God the “Only” God, expressed his will with words, and “His” power brought it about.
Peace and love to you all and yours. …….gene
Lu….Seening that your cell division theory applies to Jesus, right?, then it also must equally apply to all who have his (God’s) seed of life in them also. So how is Jesus any different then us all who have his Spirit (seed) in us. So according to your reasoning , why should we “worship” Jesus as a God and not ourselves also? Seening we also have his seed (Spirit) in us too. Your theory then makes us all the same as Jesus, well he did say he was the first born of “many” brethern. So Seening that we are “now” the sons of God, as scripture says, should we all be worshiping each other as God’s also? , like you worship Jesus as your God, Seening in your genetic anology, we are the exact same as Jesus is?
I personally do not worship Jesus as my God or any God of any kind. I see Jesus as my brother in the family of “our” God, both his and my GOD , his Father and my Father . I am equal with Jesus in the worship of the “only” true God, both his and mine.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……..gene
Gene
What you say is wrong;
The Bible says clearly that “THE WORD”is the NAME given to the Son of God who shed his blood for us;
The Bible is explained by the Bible.
19:13 and he was clothed in a garment stained with blood. His name is the Word of God.Berean. … no scripture says Jesus “is” the word of God, it says he is “called” the word of God, as in a title. That “title” is afforded him because he speaks , “GOD’S WORD” to us, that God has told him to tell us. why is that so hard for you to understand?
We call a airplane a bird, but is it?, no, but it flies in the air like a bird, but a plane is not a bird, nor a ship a women, even though we call it a she. Names can represent the character of a person, not the actual name applied to that character. Surely you know that right?
Peace and love to you and yours. ……….gene
Gene,
Jesus is called “THE WORD OF GOD” because IT IS FROM THE BEGINNING HE WHICH PRONOUNCES THE CREATIVE WORDS.
“LET THERE BE LIGHT”
he is the FATHER’S CREATING AGENT.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made;
Not only is he the divine creative agent of God, but HE IS THE ONE BY WHOM EVERYTHING REMAINS: HE GIVES LIFEPaul to the Colossians is very clear
1: [17] And he is before all things, and BY HIM ALL THINGS CONSIST .Hebrews 1: 3
… and UPHOLDING ALL THINGS BY THE WORD OF HIS POWER,THIS IS TRUE FOR ALL THAT IS CREATED
IT IS HE WHO SUPPORTS OUR LIFE.
SPIRITUAL LIFE IS BY FAITH IN HIS WORD.
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Seriously Berean, am I suppose to believe that this voice from heaven is Jesus speaking to himself?
ME: Seriously I believe that that voice from heaven is God almighty speaking to Himself
AS MAN IN JESUS!
Does that satisfy you enough?
Explain how God could be physically present on earth Jodi, in order to be accepted that
HE IS THE TRUE GOD?
1 John 5:20 And we know that
the Son of God is come.
And he hath given us understanding that we may know
the true God
and may be in
his true Son.
This is the true God and life eternal.
SINCE THERE’S NO OTHER TRUE WAY FOR GOD THE FATHER TO BE
EVER PHYSICALLY ON EARTH.
Jesus Christ is the
TRUE GOD ON EARTH
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Clearly, the Father is speaking to the son. They are two. God and his son. Simple. The term Son of God has the word ‘of’. When you are ‘of’ something, then you are not the thing you are of. Basic language skills is all you need to understand that.
Gene, you are not a son from God by reproductive process, you are from dirt, we all are. There is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. If you were a son like Jesus, he would not be an only begotten son.
t8, Look carefully at my last post on page 684. That should help you see how one is of the other yet both share the same substance.
LU
Hi Jodi,
YOU: Your DENIAL is going to cause you to DENY the Son of Man when
he returns in his glory
ME: wrong Read:
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man
shall come in
the glory of his Father
with HIS angels: (THOSE ANGELS WHO CAME ON EARTH LIKE HIM) and then will he render to
every man according to his works.
The above IS a reference to Himself, NOT to GOD THE FATHER,
HIS PARTICULAR FATHER, IN FLESH, GOD THE FATHER IS SPIRIT, CANNOT BE PRESENT! JOHN 20:17 the fact that
IT IS THE SON OF MAN, WHO COMES!
John 5:27And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is
THE SON OF MAN (The Father is not in the position to judge the FLESH SINCE JESUS BECAME MAN, LIVED AND DIED IN THE FLESH AND BECAME FATHER OF IT. John17:2)
John 17:24 Father, I will that where I am, (ANSWER JODI: WHERE IS JESUS, since he said:
THAT WHERE I AM
they also whom thou hast given me (BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD) may be with me:
that they may see my glory which thou hast given me,(BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD)
because thou hast loved me
before the creation of the world.
Jodi, Jesus was given the apostles before the creation of the world, when they were SPIRIT BEINGS! ANGELS! READ:
John17:I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou hast given me out of the world. (ANGELS LOYAL TO GOD)
THINE THEY WERE( SPIRIT BEINGS): and to me thou gavest them.( HUMANS IN FLESH)
And they have kept thy word. ( JESUS) ( BOTH WHEN THEY WERE ANGELS, NEVER REBELLED, AND AS HUMANS ACCEPTED JESUS, “THE WORD”)
7Now they have known that all things which thou hast given me (BEFORE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD) are from thee: ( ACCEPTED JESUS’COMMANDMENTS AND TEACHING; MOSES’ COMMAND)
8Because the words (PLURAL: THE TEACHING/COMMANDMENTS) which thou gavest me, I have given to them. And they have received them and have known in very deed that I came out from thee: (ACCEPTED JESUS AS “THE WORD” who was within their heart unknown as angels) and they have believed that thou didst send me. ( ACCEPTED JESUS AS THE MESSIAH)
9I pray for them. I pray not for the world,( OBVIOUS HE WON THE WORLD) but for them whom thou hast given me: (before the creation of the world WHEN THEY WERE ANGELS; JESUS CHOSE THEM HIMSELF IN ORDER TO ACCEPT HIM) because they are thine. (SPIRIT/ANGELS) 10And all my things are thine, and thine are mine: and I am glorified in them. ( THEY WERE SPIRIT BEINGS, BECAME HUMANS, AND THE PROPERTY OF JESUS FOR HIS KINGDOM AS CHILDREN OF GOD, IN ONE SAME FATHER, ONE SAME BLOOD, ONE SAME SPIRIT
THE SPIRIT OF THE SON)
John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me:
BECAUSE I LIVE(IN YOU, REMOVED SATAN FROM THEIR HEART AND IN THE POSITION TO SEE JESUS),
ye shall live also.( IN ME) Well asserted in
John 15:4 Abide in me: and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abide in the vine, so neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine: you the branches. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same beareth much fruit:
for without me you can do nothing.
NOT WITHOUT THE FATHER, BUT
WITHOUT JESUS CHRIST
THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH/HUMAN!
MANIFESTED PHYSICALLY:
THE TRUTH
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi t8,
YOU:Clearly, the Father is speaking to the son.
They are two. God and his son.
ME: NO, THAT’S CARNAL CORRUPTED UNDERSTANDING! WITH EVERY RESPECT!
THEY ARE TWO AND IN THE SAME INSTANT
ONE in every sense:
Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts: nor your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
9For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.
YOU: Simple. The term Son of God has the word ‘of’. When you are
‘of’ something, then you are not the thing you are of.
Basic language skills is all you need to understand that.
No, again CARNAL REASONING IS NOT
DIVINE REASONING
YOU:
When you are of’ something,
ME: JESUS THE SON OF MAN IS “THE WORD” OF GOD, SPIRIT!
then you are not the thing you are of.
ME: JESUS THE SON OF MAN, “THE WORD”, IS GOD IN FLESH!
JESUS THE SON OF MAN IS GLORIFIED BOTH
SPIRIT in the Holy Ghost, IN JESUS’SOUL, THE SON OF GOD, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE and
FLESH in “THE WORD” THE SON OF MAN, JESUS’HUMAN NATURE, UNITED INTO ONE SUBSTANCE IN
JESUS CHRIST
THE TRUE GOD ON EARTH
NOW REGARDING THE HOLY GHOST IN JESUS’ SOUL, JESUS’ DIVINE NATURE READ:
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which
THE HOLY GHOST hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased
WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.
T8, HOW COME THE HOLY GHOST HAS BLOOD?
OBVIOUS BECAUSE HE THE SON OF GOD, BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH “THE WORD” MADE FLESH THE SON OF MAN!
This is also well clear in
John 5:25 Amen, amen, I say unto you, that the hour cometh, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of
the Son of God:( the Holy Ghost, the voice of God, who spoke to the prophets)
and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself, so he hath given to
THE SON
also to have life in himself. 27And he hath given him power to do judgment, because he is
the Son of man ( “THE WORD” of God spoken, of the Holy Ghost,)
the fact that He was born of
the Holy Ghost
Be aware that the above is a reference to
THE SON!
THE SPIRIT OF THE SON
Galatians 4:6 And because you are sons, God hath sent
the Spirit of his Son
into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father. 7Therefore, now
he is not a servant,
but a son.
And if a son, an heir also through God.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Hi Berean,
I have been reading scripture so far all day, since 5:00 this morning reading John 6 and many other verses that directly apply.
Let’s LOOK at John 6 and the IDENTITY given of Jesus,
John 6:14 Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world. 15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
He is the promised prophet that would come, a prophet raised up from brethren where God would put His words into his mouth, and those who would hear him would see salvation.
Such is God’s word made true in the flesh of Jesus.
He is seen as the promised king, the son of David, a ruler that God promised from ancient of days that would come out from the tribe of Judah having an everlasting throne.
26 Jesus answered them and said,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
The identity of Jesus is that of a Son of Man who our Father from heaven sealed.
28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Once again this is direct reference to the prophet that God promised to raise up from among brethren, where God would put His words into his mouth and people would hear and believe the words of God that he spoke. John in chapter 3 tells us that he speaks the WORD of God for he received the Spirit not by measure.
Luke 4 tells us that Jesus received the Spirit, an anointing, TO be SENT out, TO PREACH God’s word, this is a prophecy (Isaiah 61) unto the son of Jesse made true in the man of flesh Jesus.
If you don’t apply Christ as the anointed Jesus from the river Jordan who was then sent, you will read passages with blind eyes and miss totally the message of the Gospel, the good news of Christ.
John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work? 31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my FATHER GIVETH you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Reading this again I realized it’s speaking of the second coming. Jesus gives us our eternal life when God sends him down from heaven and he rewards every man for his works.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
In the wilderness the people ate the bread, food to keep them living.
Jesus says that the Father gives us the TRUE BREAD FROM heaven.
We were ALL MADE to DRINK into that SAME ONE SPIRIT (1 Cor 12:13).
By ONE SPIRIT we are all baptized (cleansed by water) into ONE BODY. (1 Cor 12:13)
WE ARE ONE BREAD ONE BODY, unified in the body of Christ (the body of Christ, is the son of Jesse who was baptized and given the full measure of God’s Spirit (THE ONE SPIRIT), a calling to righteousness where God directs all his ways) (1 Corinthians 10:17)
John 3: 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Now read below, you have the water, the Spirit, and the kingdom.
Ezekiel 36: 25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. 27 And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. 28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.
Jesus says that the bread of life is his FLESH, which is his anointed BODY, baptized and given of the full measure of the Spirit where God causes him to walk in all His ways. He is raised receiving the promised ONE SPIRIT for all eternity.
The Son of Man (bread from heaven) is to come down from heaven and give us of the ONE SPIRIT, where we are unified in the body of Christ (full anointing of the Spirit). ONE SPIRIT, ONE BREAD which is ONE BODY unto God who worketh ALL IN ALL 1 (Corinthians 12:6).
We were ALL MADE to DRINK into that SAME ONE SPIRIT (1 Cor 12:13)
This was purposed by our heavenly Father before the world began.
Jesus is the man ordained by God to judge (Acts 17:31), and those worthy “he will give us of the water to drink which is a well that springs up into everlasting life” (John 4:13).
Hi Berean,
To continue John 6, the context of Jesus coming down from heaven to give us life, is his second coming.
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. 35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: 14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. 38 For I “come down” from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Come -Katabaino COME DOWN, DESCEND
39 And this is the Father’s will which “sends” me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40 And this is the will of him that “sends”me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Sends – pempo -send
Recall, it is the Son of Man who is returning in the glory of our Father, coming down from heaven to judge and to raise people from the dead giving them life.
41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven. 42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I “come down” from heaven? 43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. 44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. 46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father. 47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. 48 I am that bread of life. 49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. 51 I am the living bread which “cometh down” from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
The Son of Man gives that life when he comes down from heaven in the glory of our Father, where he is of the ONE Spirit and brings us into the body giving us of the ONE Spirit, the glory of our Father.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? 53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father “sends” me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.
Sends – Apostello, send, send forth
58 This is that bread which “cometh down” from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever. 59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum. 60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 It is the Spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are life.
Berean, verse 62 is talking about the SON OF MAN, he DIES and the Spirit gives him life again “quickeneth” (produce alive). He was on earth, he died, and he ascended/raised up to life on earth again!
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