Jesus&#39; resurrection &#8212; a puzzle.

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 01 2012,14:43)

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That is the point David is trying to make, Pierre. He doesn't believe that Jesus lived in a human state for those 40 days. He believes like you and I used to – that Jesus was raised immediately from death as a spirit being.

Hi Mike

The flesh is corrupt. It is not perfect, and can die. The flesh is susceptible to sickness, pain & sufferings.
Best we not mix up the difference between the flesh and the spirit.
We can clean up our spirit, and stop defiling it by moving closer to God with a pure heart and obeying his word.
However, no matter how hard we try, we cannot make the flesh perfect. We cannot stop it from getting sick, or diseased, we cannot live forever in the flesh, and when it dies, it corrupts (rots)

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; NEITHER DOTH CORRUPTION INHERIT INCORRUPTION.

1 Corinthians 15:53 For THIS CORRUPTION must put on INCORRUPTION, and THIS MORTAL must put on IMMORTALITY.

1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.

When Christ was raised from the dead, he beat death. Flesh and blood cannot do this, only spirit.

November 2, 2012 at 1:48 am#318507

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Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,23:22)

I'm saying every hint of Jesus human life was extinguished. He died died. He gave up the life he had, his human life. When he gave it up, there was no Jesus. He didn't exist at all.

That is also how I understand it.

Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,23:22)

But, when he was resurrected, he was not given back what he gave up.
How would that be a ransom?

David, Pierre and I both believed like you believe since we first read the scriptures. It was Shimmer who brought our attention to Luke 24:39. I agree with you that it seems the most logical that Jesus was raised from the dead as a spirit being.

BUT……………………………

1. I can't bring myself to believe that Jesus lied to his disciples in 24:39 – or even “tricked” them.

2. None of the things you're pointing out INSIST upon Jesus being raised as a spirit being. They are all otherwise explained.

So in short, I would be standing right there with you if not for Luke 24:39.

November 2, 2012 at 1:53 am#318508

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Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,23:46)

This one scripture in itself shows that it was the 'BODY' of Jesus Christ that was sacrificed!

And if that is what was sacrificed, as a ransom sacrifice, does it make sense that it would be given back?

Okay, thanks for that! But the point still remains that Jesus sacrificed his LIFE, and got that back.

You can distinguish between “lives” by saying his “human life” was sacrificed, and he got back a “different life” if you want to. But there is no scripture to say this. Nor is there any scripture that says a “human life” is a different kind of LIFE than a “spirit life”.

As I see it, you're either ALIVE (spirit or flesh)………….. or you're DEAD (spirit or flesh).

November 2, 2012 at 1:56 am#318509

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Quote (david @ Oct. 31 2012,23:57)

Questions: What was Jesus doing during the time after he was resurrected? He certainly wasn't spending time with his disciples. He appeared to them a few times, with them not recognizing him. Jesus was NOT spending time with his disciples. So, where was he? Who was he staying with? Where did he sleep? What was he doing with his time?

Answer these same questions concerning the OTHER 40 days that Jesus was being “sanctified” – the 40 days in the wilderness.

David, you are making good arguments………… but none of them will ever convince me that Jesus LIED to his disciples in Luke 24:39.

November 2, 2012 at 2:07 am#318512

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Quote (david @ Nov. 01 2012,00:16)

For point 5, isn't there proof that in the Heb scripture, angels have taken on physical form?

What scripture says any angel materialized a body? Who’s to say that angels don't always have a physical form? Jesus compared angels to wind. And while we can't see wind with our eyes, or touch it with our fingertips, it IS comprised of PHYSICAL elements, right?

Anyway, this is better suited for a different discussion.

Quote (david @ Nov. 01 2012,00:16)

Point 3 is the only point I consider to be an extremely valid and noteworthy argument against what I am suggesting. In fact, if not for that one scripture, I can't see how anyone would ever not believe what I am suggesting.

Agreed. Like I've been saying as I've been going through the posts chronologically, Pierre and I believed like you believe UNTIL that ONE scripture was “thrown in our faces”. Once we decided to believe that one scripture, it became clear that all of the good points you are making are ambiguous, meaning they can be explained or interpreted in many different ways.

November 2, 2012 at 2:13 am#318515

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Quote (david @ Nov. 01 2012,00:42)

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3. Jesus point blank told his disciples that he WASN'T a spirit. (Luke 24:39) Would Jesus be able to make this statement HONESTLY, if he was indeed a spirit being who was only masquerading as a flesh and bone being at the time? I don't think so.

There is another possibility.

I'll just repeat what I said in the first post. Then, you tear it apart. Then, I will respond. (But, I would also like to discuss the posts above.)

Jesus evidently materialized bodies on these occasions, as angels had done in the past when appearing to humans.
Luke 24:36-39: “While they [the disciples] were speaking of these things he himself stood in their midst and said to them: ‘May you have peace.’ But because they were terrified, and had become frightened, they were imagining they beheld a spirit. So he said to them: ‘Why are you troubled, and why is it doubts come up in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; feel me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones just as you behold that I have.’”
Humans cannot see spirits, so the disciples evidently thought they were seeing an apparition or a vision that had appeared in this locked room. (Compare Mark 6:49, 50.) Jesus assured them that he was no apparition; they could see his body of flesh and could touch him, feeling the bones; he also ate in their presence. Similarly, in the past, angels had materialized in order to be seen by men; they had eaten, and some had even married and fathered children. (Gen. 6:4; 19:1-3) Following his resurrection, Jesus did not always appear in the same body of flesh (perhaps to reinforce in their minds the fact that he was then a spirit), and so he was not immediately recognized even by his close associates. (John 20:14, 15; 21:4-7) However, by his repeatedly appearing to them in materialized bodies and then saying and doing things that they would identify with the Jesus they knew, he strengthened their faith in the fact that he truly had been resurrected from the dead.
Several times he manifested himself and WAS RECOGNIZED, NOT BY HIS APPEARANCE, BUT BY HIS WORDS AND ACTIONS. (Lu 24:15, 16, 30, 31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)

That whole post is based on the OPINION that angels can “materialize” bodies. The information is being taught from a position that assumes the reader already agrees that angels can do this.

Unfortunately, that information cannot be gleaned from the scriptures – and for now, that is all we have to go from.

November 2, 2012 at 2:22 am#318519

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Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 01 2012,01:18)

…….when [flesh] dies, it corrupts (rots)

When Christ was raised from the dead, he beat death. Flesh and blood cannot do this, only spirit.

Was the flesh of Jesus allowed to see decay, like all other flesh does? Did his flesh corrupt (rot)?

That is obviously a big difference between the flesh of Jesus, and the flesh of everyone else.

journey, I too used to believe like you and David do now. It was Luke 24:39 that changed my mind. My understanding was shown to be in error by that scripture, and so I adjusted my understanding.

I will never believe that Jesus LIED to his disciples by saying he was NOT a spirit when he really WAS a spirit who was just masquerading as a human to “trick” them.

Sorry, but I can't forget or ignore that one scripture.

November 2, 2012 at 5:14 am#318555

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Quote (david @ Nov. 01 2012,11:48)

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Jesus said the body means nothing,

–Terr

If that's true, then I guess this means nothing:

HEBREWS 10:10
“We have been sanctified through the offering of THE BODY OF Jesus Christ once for all time.”

Jesus apparently offered “nothing,” if the body is nothing.

You are clearly wrong.

]david

tell me, what was offered, was it the life or the body

the sacrifices of animal involved the pouring of the live(the blood) out of it ,and then they who are authorized eat the mead ,so the real sacrifice his the live of the animal because without killing it , you can not eat it right

so it is Christ sacrifice ;by willingly go to those who are looking to take away his live by pouring his blood out of it ,
so no one can dispose of a body unless it' s live is removed from it ,right ?

JN 6:51 “ I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”
JN 6:57 “As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.

SO TO UNLESS CHRIST DIED NO ONE COULD EAT HIS FLESH ,OR BENEFIT FROM HIS SACRIFICE IN OTHER WORDS .

so what you think his the sacrifice that Christ made

November 2, 2012 at 5:38 am#318559

david

Participant

“tell me, what was offered, was it the li[f]e or the body “– terr

What does heb 10:10 say?

November 2, 2012 at 2:42 pm#318601

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Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2012,11:38)

“tell me, what was offered, was it the li[f]e or the body “– terr

What does heb 10:10 say?

]david

MT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

LK 9:24 “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.

LK 12:15 Then He said to them, “ Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.”

LK 12:22 And He said to His disciples, “ For this reason I say to you, do not worry about your life, as to what you will eat; nor for your body, as to what you will put on.
LK 12:23 “For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing.

LK 15:24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.

LK 17:33 “ Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

so with those scriptures what is the body worth ???the onlything we have is the sacrifice to God the will of our flesh by doing the will of God and so not of the body or flesh,the body his NOT YOUR LIFE

November 2, 2012 at 2:56 pm#318603

Participant

]david

see the following scriptures and see if the body as any impotants in LIFE,

JN 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”

JN 4:14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life.”
JN 4:36 “Already he who reaps is receiving wages and is gathering fruit for life eternal; so that he who sows and he who reaps may rejoice together.
JN 5:21 “For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes.
JN 5:24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

JN 5:26 “For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself;
JN 5:29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

it seems to me that it is not the body that goes into judgement but the deeds of our life,it seems that the body can be replaced easylly but if we lose our live by the hands of God who will save it no one,but if we lose it through the deeds of God and his son WE WILL GAIN IT BACK ,a soul without body his dead ,but a soul without live his a dead soul ,meaning it is one that has been condemn by God ,because only God can destroy the soul. SO THE BODY JUST AS CHRIST SAYS HIS NOTHING,

November 3, 2012 at 9:27 am#318688

Participant

Hi Mike

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Was the flesh of Jesus allowed to see decay, like all other flesh does? Did his flesh corrupt (rot)?

No his flesh didn't rot. He was raised before the process started.

Psalms 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Psalms 49:9 That he should still live for ever, and not see corruption.

But before this he felt hunger, thirst, pain & suffering. He was flesh just like we are now. And he was buried with his wounds, whiplashes, bruises, and covered in blood.

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journey, I too used to believe like you and David do now. It was Luke 24:39 that changed my mind. My understanding was shown to be in error by that scripture, and so I adjusted my understanding.

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I will never believe that Jesus LIED to his disciples by saying he was NOT a spirit when he really WAS a spirit who was just masquerading as a human to “trick” them.

Jesus didn't lie to them. A spirit does not have flesh and bones. A spirit is made of a higher material. You can't brake a spirits bones, or cut his flesh, because he doesn't have any.
He was telling them look it's me, Not some ghost. They were afraid don't forget.

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Sorry, but I can't forget or ignore that one scripture.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Mike, we can't see spirit. Spirit has to manifest into something for us to see. Jesus manifested into the man they knew, their Lord. When he was raised, his old wounds were gone, but he showed them to say, look it's me, not a ghost. They did not see Jesus in his true glorified body, as they were still flesh, but when we are resurrected, we will see Christ's glorified body in his true form. This will be one of the rewards and privileges of the resurrected saints.

Please concentrate on this verse

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION:

There is no in-between waiting for something to happen. We are quickened the moment we are resurrected, changed into a new glorified body, which is spirit, that only spirit can see, not flesh. There is a reason for this.

You do know that Christ ascended into heaven on the third day? He showed himself to Mary first in the morning, and told her I go to my Father, then was back by evening and met with the apostles. Mary was the first witness that Christ was raised from the dead. She had to go and tell the apostles this message.

John 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, AND SAY UNTO THEM…….., I ASCEND unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

November 3, 2012 at 7:24 pm#318727

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Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 03 2012,03:27)

Jesus didn't lie to them. A spirit does not have flesh and bones.

A spirit does not have flesh and bones, LIKE YOU SEE I DO HAVE. Ie: Jesus was NOT a spirit at that time, because he DID have things that he said spirits DON'T have.

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 03 2012,03:27)

Spirit has to manifest into something for us to see.

Surely there is a scripture to support this claim, right? Where is it? What we know from scripture is that God, on occasion, has “opened the eyes” of flesh beings to see spiritual ones. We don't know FROM SCRIPTURE that any angel ever “manifested into something”, or that any angel ever “materialized a body”.

journey, consider Balaam and the donkey. The donkey saw the spirit first, and THEN Balaam was able to see him, right? Did this angel “manifest into something” TWICE – once for the donkey, and then a different time for Balaam?

Or does align better with scripture to assume that God first OPENED THE EYES of the donkey, and THEN opened the eyes of Balaam? (This would match the teaching about the eyes of Elisha being opened to see the chariots of fire BEFORE he requested God to open the eyes of his servant to see them.)

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 03 2012,03:27)

And will all of the rest of us also go to the Father, and then come back to earth? Jesus is an exception in this case because he still had work to do. The rest of us have no reason to be raised in the flesh, and then transformed into spirit. Jesus DID have a reason, and so is the exception to Paul's rule for the rest of us.

Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 03 2012,03:27)

He showed himself to Mary first in the morning, and told her I go to my Father, then was back by evening and met with the apostles.

That is the meaning that most people assume from John 20:17. But scripture doesn't really say Jesus ascended to his Father, and THEN came back to earth. He could have told Mary not to touch him because it was her time of the month, and he couldn't present himself “defiled” by a woman to his Father. (This matches the teachings in the OT)

At any rate, I realize from the wording that many people think Jesus ascended, descended, and then ascended AGAIN through the clouds in the sight of his disciples. This is, however, not an explicite scriptural teaching.

November 4, 2012 at 1:06 am#318766

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mikeboll64,Nov. wrote:

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Hi Mike

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A spirit does not have flesh and bones, LIKE YOU SEE I DO HAVE. Ie: Jesus was NOT a spirit at that time, because he DID have things that he said spirits DON'T have.

The “spirit” Jesus was referring to was a “ghost” (evil spirit)
Ghosts do not sit, eat and talk with you. We know angels did in the past, materialise into flesh, and eat, but evil spirits do not have this privilege to manifest into flesh. If they were allowed to do this, then there would be even more chaos now than what we have. There are rules in the spirit world, and this one is to protect us.
So what I'm trying to say is that ghosts (evil spirits) can appear as whatever they want, a creature of some sort, or even human, but from this statement of Jesus, it gives us a clue that that they are not permitted to manifest into flesh and bones…to sit and talk with us, eat with us, and let us touch them. An evil spirit is not permitted to do this.

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Surely there is a scripture to support this claim, right? Where is it? What we know from scripture is that God, on occasion, has “opened the eyes” of flesh beings to see spiritual ones.

Yes, God gave men visions, & dreams.

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We don't know FROM SCRIPTURE that any angel ever “manifested into something”, or that any angel ever “materialized a body”.Surely there is a scripture to support this claim, right? Where is it?

Yes we do know Mike, we are not in the dark concerning this.
We have these scriptures to work this out.

Genesis 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;
Genesis 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter.
Genesis 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

These angels obviously manifested into flesh and bone. They had permission. They ate and drank with Lot…. but men were wanting to have sex with them because of their beauty, which shows they appeared as good looking men, and not angels. Could you imagine if evil angels were permitted to do this? It would be like before the flood all over again. Those angels were locked up for what they did, as they crossed the line and got punished.(2Peter 2:4) But the angels serving God are trusted to not abuse this power.

So men only saw spiritual things, and spiritual creatures when taken up in the spirit by God, or through dreams and visions. Men do not see spiritual creatures when they are living day to day as normal. We are from two different worlds. Flesh world, and spirit world. When we are changed to spirit, we will see into both worlds.

November 4, 2012 at 3:57 am#318793

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Quote (journey42 @ Nov. 03 2012,19:06)

The “spirit” Jesus was referring to was a “ghost” (evil spirit)

How would you know that? First of all, Jesus used the word “spirit” – the same word Paul used when he said all angels are ministering “spirits”. Surely angels aren't evil ghosts, right?

Secondly, the disciples RECOGNIZED that the person there was Jesus. They only thought they were seeing a spirit because they knew he had just been murdered, and now he was standing there in front of them. So are you saying that the disciples thought Jesus was an “evil spirit ghost”? (Remember that the “spirit” Jesus said he wasn't is the same “spirit” he knew the disciples were thinking he was. So if Jesus was explaining that “evil ghosts” don't have flesh and bone, then he must have known that the disciples were thinking he was an “evil ghost”.)

journey, the rest of your post is pure conjecture. We can't possibly know from angels eating food that they “materialize” bodies of flesh and bone to do so. I don't normally eat mud, but I am quite CAPABLE of doing so. Psalm 78:25 speaks about the Israelites eating manna during the exodus, and says that “men ate the bread of angels”. This implies that angels do eat, right? And if they can eat the same manna that humans ate, then why couldn't they eat other things that humans eat?

There are a lot of good, scriptural points being brought up in this thread. Trust me, I know those points, because they are the same ones I used to use. But for me, the bottom line is that Jesus point blank told the disciples that he DID have flesh and bone at the same time he was telling them that spirits DON'T have these things.

This is the one scripture upon which my belief hindges. All these other points can be argued back and forth from either direction. And there is not one, clear, scriptural proof that INSISTS that Jesus was raised from the dead with a spirit body.

peace,
mike

November 4, 2012 at 7:41 am#318812

david

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 03 2012,01:42)

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Quote (david @ Nov. 02 2012,11:38)

“tell me, what was offered, was it the li[f]e or the body “– terr

What does heb 10:10 say?

]david

MT 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

MK 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”

LK 9:24 “For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it.

LK 12:15 Then He said to them, “ Beware, and be on your guard against every form of greed; for not even when one has an abundance does his life consist of his possessions.”

LK 15:24 for this son of mine was dead and has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they began to celebrate.

LK 17:33 “ Whoever seeks to keep his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

If the scripture very clearly and very plainly says in all bibles that he offered his “body”, his human body, and we are also told that he sacrificed his life, what does that tell us?

If someone kills my body, then I am dead. Jesus was a human while on earth. He gave up his human body. He sacrificed his human life.

A human body is connected to their life. When you wake up tomorrow, try living without your body. It won't work.

Very sorry, quite ill. Will respond to posts in a day or two.

November 4, 2012 at 8:41 am#318821

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The “spirit” Jesus was referring to was a “ghost” (evil spirit)

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How would you know that? First of all, Jesus used the word “spirit” – the same word Paul used when he said all angels are ministering “spirits”. Surely angels aren't evil ghosts, right?

There are angels of God, and there are fallen angels. They are all spirits, regardless. You have to use discernment.
Mike, Ghosts (spirits) have appeared to people since the beginning of time. We know Satan and his angels came to earth to deceive men. We also know from the scriptures that the dead are dead, so if anyone sees a spirit appear and vanish, then we know it is not a good spirit. We are not permitted to speak or converse with them. Jesus assured the apostles that it was him, and not a spirit. They were afraid, so he calmed them and said it was him.

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Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Luke 24:37 But THEY WERE TERRIFIED AND AFFRIGHTED, AND SUPPOSED THEY HAD SEEN A SPIRIT.

It doesn't appear that they recognised Christ, it says they were terrified and frightened, and thought they saw a spirit.

Luke 24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?

What thoughts? That they had seen a ghost.

Luke 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, ye see me have.

Look it's me! ….Not a spirit!

Luke 24:40 And when he had thus spoke, he he showed them his hands and his feet.
Luke 24:41 And while they yet believed NOT FOR JOY, and WONDERED, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?

They believed it was him, not for joy, but still with fear! They were freaking out.
You are also forgetting, that Mary Magdalene did not recognise Christ when she saw him, but thought he was the gardner, the two walking on the road did not recognise him either.

Mark 16:12 After that he APPEARED IN ANOTHER FORM unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country

Luke 24:16 But their eyes were held that they should not know him.

Christ appeared looking different. That's why they didn't know it was him, and yes, he was supposed to be dead. Christ didn't want them to recognise him from his face, but from his words. It's the Word that gives life.
We have never seen his face, but we know his Word.

So can flesh appear in another form? Seriously?
Can flesh vanish?

Luke 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he VANISHED out of their sight.

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journey, the rest of your post is pure conjecture. We can't possibly know from angels eating food that they “materialize” bodies of flesh and bone to do so.

Mike, are you not aware that angels are spirit? Do you really think they eat our food? Do you think that angels bleed, bruise and get hurt? Do they go to the toilet? They are so much different than us, they fly from heaven to earth and back, they meet with God around his throne, they are holy, spirit creatures. If they show themselves as flesh and blood, and sit down and eat with us, then they are obviously capable of manifesting into flesh,….not for fun, or to deceive, but for a purpose, a mission from God.

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I don't normally eat mud, but I am quite CAPABLE of doing so.

Thats right, All angels are capable of worshiping God, but not all did. Some of them abused their power.

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Psalm 78:25 speaks about the Israelites eating manna during the exodus, and says that “men ate the bread of angels”. This implies that angels do eat, right? And if they can eat the same manna that humans ate, then why couldn't they eat other things that humans eat?

Psalm 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven
Psalm 78:25 Man did eat angels food: he sent them meat to the full.

Yes God gave them food to eat because they were hungry, but he also gave them spiritual food from heaven, THE COMMANDMENTS. No other people received God's word but the Hebrews. Everything that comes out of the mouth of God is food for us, even for them back then. Angels eat this same spiritual food. The Word of God, because they are obeying him and they are holy.
If I did not read these scriptures below, I would never of understood Psalm 78:25. But just because God gave them Angels food (his word, the commandments) doesn't mean they accepted and understood. They complained on that 40 year journey out of Egypt, when freed, and rebelled, complained, and made idols for themselves. They were well looked after, but took God for granted, and to this day, have strayed far far away from God.

John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
John 6:49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

John 6:58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

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We have to look at the whole picture Mike. When you first understood this truth, who hindered you? The holy spirit taught you, the way it is supposed
to be…you were searching, and it was given to you,…..but man comes along, twists the meaning because he doesn't have the whole picture, and you instead trust him? Don't let what you have been given be taken away. Don't even trust me, but let God teach you.

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I gave you scriptures, to guide you, but you don't address them? These are powerful scriptures Mike. Not my words, but these scriptures.

1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; IT IS RAISED IN INCORRUPTION::
1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that FLESH AND BLOOD CANNOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1 Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this MORTAL shall have put on IMMORTALITY, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

God bless you too Mike.

November 4, 2012 at 11:15 pm#318879

david

Participant

What does one do when there is one scripture that seems to point in favour of one idea, and many other scriptures that seem to point in the other direction?

Lets say the one scripture is 85-90% pointing up.
But the 30 other scriptures are all 60-75% pointing down.

Is the answer up or down?

Of course, the one that believes the answer is up says the one scripture is 95-100% clear and the ones that say the 30 scriptures point down believe they are all 80-98% clear, with the volume making up for any weakness.

I really have to spend some time on that one scripture, something, admittedly, I haven't spent an enormous amount of time on.

Meanwhile, perhaps if this is unrelated, it is at the least, still interesting:

Not one of them had the courage to ask “who are you?” Because THEY KNEW it was Jesus.

I would like someone to comment on this most bewildering puzzle.

November 4, 2012 at 11:58 pm#318884