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Good one miia. You asked God and of course there are plenty of scriptures about the fate of the wicked. The word ‘wicked’ and ‘perish’, ‘death’, & ‘destruction’ go hand in hand.
But like the Pharisees of old who blocked the way for many by claiming to be the gatekeepers of truth, not only did they persecute the messiah, but their attempts at making disciples made them worse people than they were before.
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.In hindsight if we lived back then and followed the religious establishment, then we would have sided with the Pharisees. But if we asked God and searched the scriptures, then we would have walked with Christ. It is no different today.
prove to us that man’s soul is eternal thus making the above scriptures wrong.
t8,and all,
SCRIPTURALLY!
GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE
Job 20:18 He shall be PUNISHED for all that he did, and yet shall not be CONSUMED: according to the multitude of his devices so also shall he SUFFER.
From the above it is clear enough, that Lucifer/Satan HIMSELF would never be consumed but HIS EVIL WOULD BE!
So all the ENTIRE CREATURES obvious from the spirit side point of view, would never be consumed eternally for sure AS WELL!
SO SOULS ARE ALL ETERNAL!
Matthew 18:8 …….rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into the ETERNAL FIRE
So the fact that it is eternal fire, it doesn’t mean that CRTEATURES WOULD BE ETERNALLY PUNISHED IN FIRE,Matthew 25:41 …….Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels;
TILL THEY ARE ACCORDING TO GOD’S LOVE
Mark 9:49 Mark 9:49 For EVERYONE
BOTH HOLY FROM HEAVEN AND EVIL FROM HELL
will be salted WITH FIRE,….IN ORDER TO BE ALL JUSTIFIED ON EARTH AS MAN,
AND EVENTUALLY BECOME PERFECT CHILDREN OF GOD
IN CHRIST!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
All kerwin. Where Hell is mentioned in scripture, you can talk about any of the original words, Hades, Gehenna, etc.
Ultimately the topic is about what happens to the Wicked when they are cast into Hell.
Feel free to give us your view on the different meanings though.
Death by very definition in not annihilation, or how could there be a second one..!?!?
Good question DavidL.
Death means separation. The first death is separation from the body. The second death is separation from God. It is written that the spirit goes back to God who gave it. We know that the spirit gives life, and that no one can live but for God’s spirit/breath. There is a physical death and a spiritual one, just as there is a physical body and a spiritual one for those that love God.
Thus the Second Death is eternal and final. Once they are separated from the source of all life, they are no longer living. Eternal life is only for the righteous, this we know. It is not for the wicked. God is the God of the Living not the Dead.
In the realm to come, there will be no more death, pain, or crying. For the former things will have passed away.
God is great and merciful. He is full of grace. He is a God of love. His justice and severity is the destruction of the wicked and the discipline of his children while in the world. But he is the God of all good. I have faith that he is good and right. And all the suffering now cannot be compared to the glory to come.
Good one miia. You asked God and of course there are plenty of scriptures about the fate of the wicked. The word ‘wicked’ and ‘perish’, ‘death’, & ‘destruction’ go hand in hand.
But like the Pharisees of old who blocked the way for many by claiming to be the gatekeepers of truth, not only did they persecute the messiah, but their attempts at making disciples made them worse people than they were before.
Matthew 23:15
“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when you have succeeded, you make them twice as much a child of hell as you are.In hindsight if we lived back then and followed the religious establishment, then we would have sided with the Pharisees. But if we asked God and searched the scriptures, then we would have walked with Christ. It is no different today.
Yes, I agree. Thanks.
I asked God about these things too.I prayed he show me the truth.I heard a voice in my head say”Andrew,I’m okay,it’s alright.” Was this from God? who knows? I can stand on that and say that was God’s word to me,right? or I can say it’s all in head.
Was Jesus a holy pharisee himself? Some Zionist Christians seem to think so.Perhaps he was just a greater Pharisee!
Why did Jesus not like the Pharisees when they basically had the same type beliefs about God? Maybe it was because they didn’t like him,so he didn’t like them in return? Just like many believers today.Is it all about religious competition?
andrewAD
Why did Jesus not like the Pharisees when they basically had the same type beliefs about God? Maybe it was because they didn’t like him,so he didn’t like them in return? Just like many believers today.Is it all about religious competition?
its all about money ,religion means money and each person is a religious tax payer ,big money real big money they all are part of this world while Jesus came to bring people back to his father for free and so free them of the enslavement of religion ,so they have to kill him because their deeds were wrong
Ultimately the topic is about what happens to the Wicked when they are cast into Hell.
t8,
18He shall be punished for all that he did, and yet shall not be consumed: according to the multitude of his devices so also shall he suffer.
THEREFORE AS SOON AS HE HAS WENT ALL THROUGH THE ABOVE PROCESS, HE WILL DEFINITELY ENTER GOD’S KINGDOM
19Because he broke in and stripped the poor: he hath violently taken away a house which he did not build.
20And yet his belly was not filled: and when he hath the things he coveted, he shall not be able to possess them.
21There was nothing left of his meat, and therefore nothing shall continue of his goods:
22When he shall be filled, he shall be straitened, he shall burn, and every sorrow shall fall upon him.
23May his belly be filled, that God may send forth the wrath of his indignation upon him, and rain down his war upon him.
24He shall flee from weapons of iron, and shall fall upon a bow of brass.
25The sword is drawn out, and cometh forth from its scabbard, and glittereth in his bitterness: the terrible ones shall go and come upon him.
26All darkness is hid in his secret places: a fire that is not kindled shall devour him, he shall be afflicted when left in his tabernacle.
27The heavens shall reveal his iniquity, and the earth shall rise up against him.
28The offspring of his house shall be exposed, he shall be pulled down in the day of God’s wrath.
29This is the portion of a WICKED MAN FROM GOD, and the inheritance of his doings from the Lord.
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
the doctrine of eternal suffering.
AndrewAD,
ETERNAL SUFFERING,
It is not to be meant that a soul would be ETERNALLY CONDEMNED IN HELL,since hell would eventually be for sure eradicated!
The word ETERNAL is a reference to GOD!
SO IT SHOULD BE DEFINED:
GOD’S SUFFERING!
WHICH WAS MANIFESTED IN CHRIST ON THE CROSS!
THE FACT THAT GOD HIMSELF SENT HIS SON TO SUFFER FOR ALL SOULS!
SO WE SHOULD IMITATE CHRIST, THE PERFECT MAN
THEREFORE ALL OUR SUFFERINGS ON EARTH SHOULD BE ACCEPTED,THANKED FOR, FOR THE LOVE OF JESUS CHRIST!
AND UNLESS WE DO SO WHILE ON EARTH ,
WE WOULD DEFINITELY SUFFER IN HELL AS SOULS, AND IN THAT SPIRITUAL STATE WE WOULD BE AWARE OF ALL SPIRITUAL TRUTHS, REGARDING SUFFERING, AND ONCE WE ACCEPT,BLAME OURSELVES BEING SUBJECT TO THE FLESH WHILE ON EARTH, AND RELY ON GOD’S MERCY, WE WOULD BE LIBERATED FROM THE SPIRITUAL SUFFERINGS IN HELL!
AFTER ALL WE CAME FROM THERE!
JESUS DECLARED SO:
YOU ARE FROM BENEATH, I AM FROM ABOVE!
REFLECT ON JESUS’ WORDS:
Matthew.10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me, is not worthy of me; and he that loveth son or daughter more than me, is not worthy of me.
NOW IN ORDER FOR US TO LOVE CHRIST MORE THAN OUR RELATIVES,
WE MUST SUFFER FOR THEIR SAKE IN ORDER TO LOVE CHRIST
Not love ourselves, satisfy our carnal pleasure, in all our deeds related to them,
THEREFORE NOT IN CHRIST,
SUFFERING IN HUMILITY, PATIENCE, CHARITY, OBEDIENCE,AND SO ON!
38And he that taketh not up his cross, and followeth me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life, shall lose it:
and he that shall lose his life for me, shall find it.
ONCE A PERSON DESTROYS HIS SELF LOVE, REJECT HIMSELF AS A CARNAL BEING, AND ACT THROUGH HIS SOUL, CHRIST’S SUBSTANCE, FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS, LOOKING AT THEM AS CHRIST,
HE WILL FIND CHRIST
HIS LIFE
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
T8,
When Jesus taught the parable of the rich man and Lazarus he had the rich dwelling in Hades, which is one place the KJV calls Hell. The rich man was in torment waiting for Judgement Day. Lazarus was said to dwell at Abraham’s Bosom. Jesus was using a variation of the Jewish Doctrine of Sheol. The side that the rich man that rich man is called Tartarus and yet in one place but in other places it is called Hades. They may be too different places if the angels are in one place and the souls of the wicked dead are in another. I have also heard that Abraham’s Bosom is called Paradise and is also part of Sheol. To answer your question Hades/Sheol/Hell will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire/Gehenna/Hell. I am uncertain whether Tartarus/Hell is another name for the place of the wicked or is its own place. In the later case I do not know its fate. It seems Gehenna burns for ever or at least an indeterminate length of time. The souls of the dead are destroyed.
The problem with the Pharisees is that they had self-righteousness and were the gatekeepers so to speak for men to know about God and the Law. While they were well versed in the letter of the law, they completely missed the spirit of the law. Consequently Jesus said that men who were discipled by Pharisees were worse of than before they were discipled. Further, had they known the spirit of the law, (it’s intent) they would have recognised many more things and aspired to be godly. Instead they were fixated on the letter of the law and were more like lawyers.
The letter of the law versus the spirit of the law is an idiomatic antithesis. When one obeys the letter of the law but not the spirit, one is obeying the literal interpretation of the words (the “letter”) of the law, but not the intent of those who wrote the law. Conversely, when one obeys the spirit of the law but not the letter, one is doing what the authors of the law intended, though not necessarily adhering to the literal wording.
“Law” originally referred to legislative statute, but in the idiom may refer to any kind of rule. Intentionally following the letter of the law but not the spirit may be accomplished through exploiting technicalities, loopholes, and ambiguous language.
Source: Wikipedia
I asked God about these things too.I prayed he show me the truth.I heard a voice in my head say”Andrew,I’m okay,it’s alright.” Was this from God? who knows?
Yes, it was (:
The souls of the dead are destroyed.
Kerwin,
SOULS ARE ETERNAL!
THEY ARE GOD’S WORD, JESUS’ SUBSTANCE! ALL BY HIM, ALL IN HIM, AND ALL FOR HIM, OK?
IT IS CLEAR
ALL
AND ALL GOD’S ATTRIBUTES ARE ETERNAL!
THIS INCLUDES
FIRE!
THE FACT THAT
GOD IS A CONSUMING FIRE
BOTH PHYSICAL FIRE, AND SPIRITUAL FIRE OF
LOVE!
The fact that it is called:
ETERNAL FIRE!
The word “ETERNAL” signifies that it is
GODLY!
AND ONCE PHYSICAL FIRE HAS ACCOMPLISHED ITS PURPOSE IN THE REDEMPTION PROCESS,
THE FACT THAT WE CAME FROM IT,
GOD’S SPIRITUAL LOVING FIRE COMMENCES THROUGHOUT THE KINGDOM OF THE SON! the only
JUDGE!
Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of OF YOUR KINGDOM.
9Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
It is through the process of fire, OF LOVE that Jesus Christ accomplishes
JUSTICE!
AND IF WICKED SOULS ARE ERADICATED IT IS A PROOF THAT JUSTICE IS TWISTED!
Amos 5:7
You twist justice,
making it a bitter pill for the oppressed…….AND WICKED SOULS ARE OPPRESSED, MANIPULATED, THE FACT THAT JESUS DIED FOR ALL THE WICKED SOULS!
HOW ON EARTH SOULS COULD EVER BE ERADICATED!
IT WOULD MAKE JESUS’ DEATH USELESS!
THE FACT THAT HE PREACHED:
LOVE YOUR ENEMY!
So fire REMAINS, but its function would be transformed!
Now, Physical fire was established for Lucifer/Satan and his angels, as his abode and in the same time:
to eradicate WICKEDNESS, punish, discipline, educate, purify, and test, all souls, throughout the process of redemption!
THEREFORE WITHIN THAT FIRE THERE’S ALSO THE SPIRITUAL FIRE OF LOVE,
SO NOT TO ERADICATE SOULS
FURTHERMORE:
When all is accomplished, Satan and his angels remain in it TILL THEY THEMSELVES ARE REDEEMED even if it takes an endless time!
Declared hereunder:
JOB 18 He shall be punished for all that he did, and yet shall not be consumed: ACCORDING to the multitude of his devices so also shall he suffer. NO MORE NO LESS
So, according to the above, SATAN would not be eternally condemned, and ONCE he has been through the above process, he also be part of God’s kingdom!
So souls definitely
never be eradicated, BUT FOR SURE HELL WOULD BE!
ALL THROUGH THE WORD TILL THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, SINCE ALL IN HIM, THE ONLY JUDGE!
GOD, THE CONSUMING FIRE!
THE ETERNAL FIRE!
ALSO, IF SOULS ARE ERADICATED,
IT WOULD MAKE GOD NOT ONLY IN A WAY INEFFICIENT, WASTED HIS ENERGY, AND HIS SPIRITUAL SUBSTANCE, BUT,
FIRST, the process itself WOULD NOT BE PERFECT IN CHRIST, AS DECLARED BY JESUS HIMSELF!
AND SECOND, IT WOULD MAKE GOD
NOT OMNIPOTENT!
Peace and love in Jesus
Charles
Thanks @kerwin
When Jesus taught the parable of the rich man and Lazarus he had the rich dwelling in Hades, which is one place the KJV calls Hell. The rich man was in torment waiting for Judgement Day. Lazarus was said to dwell at Abraham’s Bosom. Jesus was using a variation of the Jewish Doctrine of Sheol. The side that the rich man that rich man is called Tartarus and yet in one place but in other places it is called Hades. They may be too different places if the angels are in one place and the souls of the wicked dead are in another. I have also heard that Abraham’s Bosom is called Paradise and is also part of Sheol. To answer your question Hades/Sheol/Hell will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire/Gehenna/Hell. I am uncertain whether Tartarus/Hell is another name for the place of the wicked or is its own place. In the later case I do not know its fate. It seems Gehenna burns for ever or at least an indeterminate length of time. The souls of the dead are destroyed.
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.…
Sounds like this verse covers more than just Hades. Death and Hades at least. Not sure what the sea is here. Maybe it is the actual sea.
SOULS ARE ETERNAL!
…………………..
SO NOT TO ERADICATE SOULS
You say that souls are eternal and cannot be destroyed. Let’s test this.
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil; and now, he might stretch out his hand, and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever “– therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden, to cultivate the ground from which he was taken. So He drove the man out; and at the east of the garden of Eden He stationed the cherubim and the flaming sword which turned every direction to guard the way to the tree of life.
Think about what God the merciful spared man from in the above text. And if you do not believe that God can destroy souls then why does it say dozens if not hundreds of times that God will destroy the wicked and that they will perish
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
Are you still sure that God cannot destroy a man’s soul? Why not. He created Adam a living soul, why can he not destroy him too? Scripture is full of reference to the destruction and the salvation of our souls. One is for the wicked and the other for the righteous.
And here is the clincher:
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
There is that word ‘destroy’ again and in context of the soul. Yet you say this is not correct? Why not.
@t8.
Sounds like this verse covers more than just Hades. Death and Hades at least. Not sure what the sea is here. Maybe it is the actual sea.
I have noticed it before but I have not done any research. There is also Abaddon, which is linked to Hades.
Proverbs 27:20Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
20 Sh’ol and Abaddon are never satisfied,
and human eyes are never satisfied.Proverbs 15:11Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
11 Hell and destruction are before the Lord:
how much more then the hearts of the children of men?Abaddon is said to be both a place of fire and destruction and that sounds like Gehenna, Job 31:12.
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