In the Beginning

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,16:57)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2012,12:51) so what it says in Prov ;8 ;22-31 is definetly not of God that it speaks right YES Terraricca of COURSE it is of God. Was there a time when our great God did not have his own wisdom that you can name? I cannot. There is nothing in the bible which says that there was a time when God did not have wisdom?

2b

why are you NOT ANSWERING MY QUESTIONS ,MIKE AD IT REPOST IT IN PLAIN ENGLISH BETTER SPELLING,

SO DO NOT RUN FROM IT ANSWER THE QUESTIONS DO NOT BE LIKE THE PHARISEES ,

AND WE ARE NOT OUR WORDS ,REASON WE CAN NOT ACCOMPLISH THEM MOST OF THE TIME ,AND WE SAY MANY THINGS THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO SAY OR NOT THE WAY IT COMES OUT OF OUR MOUTH,

THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GOD ,HE SPEAKS HIS WORDS ARE GOING OUT AND DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM UNLES THEY ARE ACCOMPLISHED.

AND SO THE WISDOM HIS THE WORD AND THE WORD HIS CHRIST ;COLOS;1, -PROV;8-22-31

PLEASE ANSWER MY QUESTIONS FOR THE TRUTH

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,17:07)

Quote (terraricca @ Nov. 30 2012,13:03) Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,04:05) Terraria, let me ask you something and please answer it with a yes or a no: 1) Are you your word? 2) Are you your wisdom? If you can't answer that with a yes or a no, just say so. 2b 1) Are you your word? no 2) Are you your wisdom?no let me put it this way ;if i grow apples i have apples but i am not my apples ,right if i am sick i may have viruses,or bacteria but i am not the viruses or the bacteria,right so i am a person with an ability to speak but all my words are not necessary mine i may quote notes of DESCARTS or PASCAL,or ORIGEN,or PLATO so am i those persons no are there words me NO but i have say those words or endorsed them , but God does not endorse words from others he his unique and his words are to be applied but they are not him but from him big difference ,wen GOD gives he does not gives from his being but from what he can give to others power of the holy spirit it is like the sun ,we do not receive a piece of the sun but his warm give a warm feeling right Hi Terraricca, Firstly, the question was NOT about you quoting others words, it was about YOUR words…Are you 'your words'? You cannot answer 'Yes – I am my words' because you are not ONLY your words, you are much more than just words. And you cannot answer 'No – I am not my words' because – then you are saying that the words that you speak are not yours when they are, so the answer has to be – You are your words and you are your wisdom, They are a part of who you are. So a 'Yes' and a 'No' is the answer. Therefore why it says in John 1:1 that the word was with God AND the word WAS God. The Father's words are what Jesus spoke. The Father is the light which came into the world THROUGH Jesus. “The works that I do are not my own but the Father who dwells in me” —————- And by you claiming that the word (In John 1:1) was 'a god' and then claiming that wisdom was 'the word' too, then you are claiming that God's own word/wisdom is a 'god' – another god (small 'g'). Or if you were a binitarian or a trinitarian then you are claiming that the word/wisdom is ANOTHER God – so there are two Gods. Scriptures do not tell us that. Can you please show me a verse that says that there are two GODS who together created.

2B

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You are your words and you are your wisdom, They are a part of who you are. So a 'Yes' and a 'No' is the answer.

THERE ONLY ONE MAN EVER THAT CAN SAY THIS ;MY WORDS ARE THE TRUTH ;THIS HIS JESUS CHRIST ,

OUR WORDS ARE LEARN FROM OTHERS ,RECEIVED FROM OTHERS,WE HAVE BROUGHT NOTHING IN THIS WORLD AND WE WILL LEAVE IT WITH NOTHING ,BUT OUR SOUL THAT HIS NOW EMBETTED WITH ALL THE THINGS WE HAVE MADE OURS,AND THAT IS WHAT HIS OURS AND US ;

GOD HIS THE ONLY ONE THAT HAS A WORD SPEAKING WORD THAT IS THAT WILL STAND FOREVER AND WILL BE ACCOMPLISH 100% BEFORE IT WOULD BE CALLED VOID OR DONE ,NO ONE CAN SAY THIS ABOUT THEMSELF,NO ONE EXCEPT GOD.

SO ANSWER MY QUESTION ;How is God a craftsman at God's side? How does God create Himself as the first of His works? How does God rejoice in His own presence?

(Prov8-22-31)

[terraricca]

2b

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And by you claiming that the word (In John 1:1) was 'a god' and then claiming that wisdom was 'the word' too, then you are claiming that God's own word/wisdom is a 'god' – another god (small 'g'). Or if you were a binitarian or a trinitarian then you are claiming that the word/wisdom is ANOTHER God – so there are two Gods. Scriptures do not tell us that. Can you please show me a verse that says that there are two GODS who together created

Col 1:15 He(Christ) is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Col 1:16 For by him(Christ) all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him(Christ) and for him(Christ).
Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him (Christ)all things hold together.
Col 1:18 And he(Christ) is the head of the body, the church; he(Christ) is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he(Christ) might have the supremacy.(Christ the only begotten son of God)

Pr 8:22 “The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
Pr 8:23 I was appointed from eternity,
from the beginning, before the world began.

Pr 8:25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
Pr 8:26 before he made the earth or its fields
or any of the dust of the world.
Pr 8:27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,

Pr 8:30 Then I was the craftsman at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
Pr 8:31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.

yes Christ his the god like Moses was a god that spoked to all others ,but he was never God the almighty,and so his Christ the god or spokes person like Moses to all of humanity came down told us the truth died for us and was glorified and returned to his father,and he still a god because he his the second, God being first ,

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

John and Paul are the two withnesses that declared this about Christ the son of God
and John the baptist said ;
Jn 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, “Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
Jn 1:30 This is the one I meant when I said, ‘A man who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’
Jn 1:31 I myself did not know him, but the reason I came baptizing with water was that he might be revealed to Israel.”

JB says HE WAS BEFORE ME ” what is that ,that mean we all know Christ was born after John the baptist right yes

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……………Jesus said……. thou art the “ONLY” TRUE GOD So who are we to believe ,these yackers, or what Jesus said. The word ONLY means NO OTHER and the words ONLY TRUE GOD maeans all other are false Gods. It is as simple as that IMO.

peace and love to you all……………………………………………….gene

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 01 2012,04:15)

To All……………Jesus said……. thou art the “ONLY” TRUE GOD So who are we to believe ,these yackers, or what Jesus said. The word ONLY means  NO OTHER and the words ONLY TRUE  GOD maeans all other are false Gods. It is as simple as that IMO. peace and love to you all……………………………………………….gene

Hi Gene,

I fully agree, that is all except the 'yackers' part that is.  

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[2besee]

Hi Terrarricca,

I have answered your question.

The writing about 'Wisdom' is poetic, it is personifying God's Wisdom, but Wisdom is a part of God, it is not another god (which is what you are saying.)

“Happy is the man who finds wisdom, and the man who gets understanding, for the gain from it is better than gain from silver and its profit better than gold. She is more precious than jewels, and nothing you desire can compare with her. Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to those who lay hold of her; those who hold her fast are called happy. The LORD BY WISDOM founded the earth; BY UNDERSTANDING he established the heavens; BY HIS KNOWLEDGE the deeps broke forth, and the clouds drop down the dew.” Proverbs 3:13-20

You are separating God's own word and God's own wisdom, and making them out to be 'other gods' which is what you are doing when you state that John 1:1 is talking about TWO Gods.

John 1:1 is not talking about two gods it is talking about ONE GOD

In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS GOD.

The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Gods own Word was “made flesh” and dwelt among us, IN Jesus Christ – the man of Nazareth –

[2besee]

I will have to answer the rest later.

[terraricca]

2b

Quote

The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Gods own Word was “made flesh” and dwelt among us, IN Jesus Christ – the man of Nazareth –

sinse wen is the word (spoken word or written) can become flesh
did God not spoke through man before and they had spoken the words of God was that as well the word that came to be flesh because it was men that were used to spread it

where do you see that in scriptures Christ called himself “the son of God” the son of Man” the Christ ,but never the spoken words of God ,

YES HE SPOKE THE WORDS OF GOD HIS FATHER BUT THAT DOES NOT MAKE HIM THE WORDS OF HIS FATHER ,BEING AN AMBASADOR OF SOMEONE DOES NOT MAKE THAT SOMEONE OR DOES IT ?

AND YOU NEVER ANSWER MY QUESTIONS ,WHAT YOU DID IS GIVE AN UNRELATED ANSWER TO MY QUESTIONS ,SO TRY TO BE HONEST AND PLACE YOUR ANSWERS NEXT TO MY QUESTIONS THK U

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,03:36)

AND WE ARE NOT OUR WORDS ,REASON WE CAN NOT ACCOMPLISH THEM MOST OF THE TIME ,AND WE SAY MANY THINGS THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO SAY OR NOT THE WAY IT COMES OUT OF OUR MOUTH,

We are not God.

Quote

THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GOD ,HE SPEAKS HIS WORDS ARE GOING OUT AND DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM UNLES THEY ARE ACCOMPLISHED.

And this was accomplished through His son Jesus Christ.

Quote

AND SO THE WISDOM HIS THE WORD AND THE WORD HIS CHRIST ;COLOS;1, -PROV;8-22-3

I have been further studying and speaking to people who I know and this is how I see it:

The world was made through Jesus.
Not Jesus the man but the Spirit which was in Him (The eternal Spirit).

This would be the Holy Spirit.

[2besee]

Terraricca, you said:

Quote

“yes Christ his the god like Moses was a god that spoked to all others ,but he was never God the almighty,and so his Christ the god or spokes person like Moses to all of humanity….”

You say that Christ (or the eternal Spirit which was in Him) was a god like Moses but the Scriptures say the opposite.

Mat 12:41 “The men of Nineveh will stand up in the judgment with this generation, and will condemn it, for they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, someone greater than Jonah is here.“

“The queen of the south will rise up in the judgment with this generation, and will condemn it, for she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, someone greater than Solomon is here.“ Matt 12:42

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,04:07)

JB says HE WAS BEFORE ME ” what is that ,that mean we all know Christ was born after John the baptist right yes

The Spirit which was in Him was before ALL.

Tell me, was Jesus a man of flesh existing before the foundation of the world? Where?

Jesus the man came into existence at conception. The Spirit which was in Him existed before then.

Terraricca, then answer me this: Where is Jesus now?

Is he in heaven or is he on earth?

If he is in heaven then how come he said that He would be Here till the end?

How come he said that he would ask the Father and that the Father would send the Holy Spirit?

How could Jesus have then said “I will come to you”

Check the Bible.

[2besee]

In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word WAS God.

(not 'a' god)

keep saying it!

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,11:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,03:36) AND WE ARE NOT OUR WORDS ,REASON WE CAN NOT ACCOMPLISH THEM MOST OF THE TIME ,AND WE SAY MANY THINGS THAT WE DO NOT WANT TO SAY OR NOT THE WAY IT COMES OUT OF OUR MOUTH, We are not God. Quote THIS IS NOT THE CASE WITH GOD ,HE SPEAKS HIS WORDS ARE GOING OUT AND DO NOT GO BACK TO HIM UNLES THEY ARE ACCOMPLISHED. And this was accomplished through His son Jesus Christ. Quote AND SO THE WISDOM HIS THE WORD AND THE WORD HIS CHRIST ;COLOS;1, -PROV;8-22-3 I have been further studying and speaking to people who I know and this is how I see it: The world was made through Jesus. Not Jesus the man but the Spirit which was in Him (The eternal Spirit). This would be the Holy Spirit.

2b

You have stopped the truth of getting in your heart ,you have gone to men for understanding,so you received a man answer that his not of God,

You still have not answered my questions,but have add to scriptures and changing the meaning of scriptures and believe that that will do NO

But it is your faith that you are killing not mine ,by not remaining in truth you are voiding your faith,

Stick to scriptures ,I do not need your answer it is a lie anyway so keep it,

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,11:27)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,04:07) JB says HE WAS BEFORE ME ” what is that ,that mean we all know Christ was born after John the baptist right yes The Spirit which was in Him was before ALL. Tell me, was Jesus a man of flesh existing before the foundation of the world? Where? Jesus the man came into existence at conception. The Spirit which was in Him existed before then. Terraricca, then answer me this: Where is Jesus now? Is he in heaven or is he on earth? If he is in heaven then how come he said that He would be Here till the end? How come he said that he would ask the Father and that the Father would send the Holy Spirit? How could Jesus have then said “I will come to you” Check the Bible.

2b

You do not read scriptures ,you ask questions that answered those questions you ask ,but you have closed your eyes and ears ,to the truth of scriptures,

Jesus was send by his father and wen his work was done on earth he went back to his father ,just like he said ,

So Jesus Christ the son of God his now with his father and soon you will see what he said will come onto this wicked world,but you won't have no oil

[terraricca]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,11:27)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,04:07) JB says HE WAS BEFORE ME ” what is that ,that mean we all know Christ was born after John the baptist right yes The Spirit which was in Him was before ALL. Tell me, was Jesus a man of flesh existing before the foundation of the world? Where? Jesus the man came into existence at conception. The Spirit which was in Him existed before then. Terraricca, then answer me this: Where is Jesus now? Is he in heaven or is he on earth? If he is in heaven then how come he said that He would be Here till the end? How come he said that he would ask the Father and that the Father would send the Holy Spirit? How could Jesus have then said “I will come to you” Check the Bible.

2b

That is not what scriptures are saying don't deceive yourself ,

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,19:06)

2b You have stopped the truth of getting in your heart ,you have gone to men for understanding,so you received a man answer that his not of God,

You are wrong. I listen carefully to what people say in case I miss something.

A person can say a thousand words, but I may only 'hear' a few, and those few words I will ponder, but I know how to test the spirit first, and if the spirit is wrong I will hear nothing.

Pay attention, you never know when God is going to speak or act, you may miss it.

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,19:06)

Stick to scriptures ,I do not need your answer it is a lie anyway so keep it,

Goodbye Terraricca, good luck to you!

[2besee]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,19:14)

2b You do not read scriptures ,you ask questions that answered those questions you ask ,but you have closed your eyes and ears ,to the truth of scriptures, Jesus was send by his father and wen his work was done on earth he went back to his father ,just like he said ,

Oh yes I do read scriptures.

And yes I know, Jesus, the firstborn from the dead has been resurrected and is now in heaven at the right hand of the Father, but the spirit is here.

Is the spirit here Terraricca?

That is why I asked you the question: How is Jesus there and here?

Answer is: Jesus is in Heaven but the SPIRIT is here, the Spirit which was also in Him, the eternal Spirit of God.

Jesus is still to come back.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (2besee @ Nov. 30 2012,05:17)

Yes Jesus is called a God in Scripture in a few places I have seen, but it has nothing to do with John 1:1.

Why do you say that?  

Consider what we know from scripture:
1.  Jesus IS callled a god, like you said.
2.  Jesus IS called “the Word” in Rev 19:13.
3.  All things were said to have been created through “the Word” (John 1:3), and they are also said to have been created through Jesus (Col 1:16, 1 Cor 8:6, Heb 1:2).
4.  This particular Word from John 1:1 became flesh, and dwelled among us with the glory of God's only begotten Son.
5.  Jesus is called “the Word of Life” in 1 John 1.

There are more points I could make, but these should suffice.

And it seems to me that the only reason you claim the Word can't be Jesus is because there is only one god in existence.  But we can't take those scriptures in Isaiah LITERALLY, because Jesus is also a god, right?  And so is Satan, and many others.

Other than that, I've only heard you offer the claim that a person's word IS that person.  But that's not true either.  Do this test:

Do you worship Jehovah your God?  YES.  Do you worship the word OF Jehovah as your God?  NO.

Do you pray to Jehovah your God?  YES.  Do you pray to the Spirit OF Jehovah as your God?  NO.

Things that are OF someone aren't also that person.  You can't say, “Your word is you”, because the word “your”, in and of itself, proves that it is a POSSESSION OF you, and not you yourself.

Get it?  MY hair is not me.  MY love is not me.  YOUR leg is not you.  YOUR spirit is not you.  HIS word is not him.  HIS wisdom is not him.

All these capitalized words are called “possessive pronouns”.  They indicate things that a person POSSESSES.  They DON'T indicate things that equate to that person himself.

peace,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (2besee @ Dec. 01 2012,20:11)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 01 2012,19:14) 2b You do not read scriptures ,you ask questions that answered those questions you ask ,but you have closed your eyes and ears ,to the truth of scriptures, Jesus was send by his father and wen his work was done on earth he went back to his father ,just like he said , Oh yes I do read scriptures. And yes I know, Jesus, the firstborn from the dead has been resurrected and is now in heaven at the right hand of the Father, but the spirit is here. Is the spirit here Terraricca? That is why I asked you the question: How is Jesus there and here? Answer is: Jesus is in Heaven but the SPIRIT is here, the Spirit which was also in Him, the eternal Spirit of God. Jesus is still to come back.

2besee………..They simply do not understand Jesus was never a God of anykind or never will be one either. He has a GOD and that is not himself. That God is a Sprit and indwelt him just as he can indwell us also.

peace and love to you and yours 2besee……………………..gene

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