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Mike,
Maybe the word “LAND” never refers to the whole world “land AND sea” (I haven’t checked all the verses) BUT WHAT I MEAN MOSTLY IS THAT THE WORD “EARTH” ALSO MEANS IN CERTAIN PASSAGES OF THE BIBLE”THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH”.
AN EXAMPLE :
Gen.11[1] And all the earth was of one tongue and one word.
This is indeed ALL the INHABITANTS. of the Earth or of the inhabitants of all the EARTH….
THE WORD EARTH HERE DOES NOT MEAN DRY EARTH.YES ?
Hi Berean,
I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. (Jeremiah 4:23)
You: Carmel, you are using this verse out of context…Jeremiah do not see the time of Genesis 1, but something similar that IS TO COME…
First and foremost it says
I BEHELD,…….IT WAS……..THEY HAD……
ALL IN THE PAST, IT ALREADY OCCURRED.
ALSO, NOTICE PURPOSELY THE SAME WORDING IS USED AS IN GENESIS 1:2, A CLEAR INDICATION THAT IT IS A REFERENCE TO IT.
Now read
Isaiah 24:1 BEHOLD the Lord shall lay waste the earth, and shall strip it, and shall afflict the face thereof, and scatter abroad the inhabitants thereof.
IN THE ABOVE A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WORDING ALTOGETHER IS USED FROM GENESIS 1:2 DESPITE IT IS ALSO AN IDENTICAL ACT FROM GOD. PLUS THAT IT IS YET TO OCCUR IN THE FUTURE.
Jeremiah simply had a vision from God of what happened in Genesis 1:2, and the Lord was showing Jeremiah that this could happen again, but that this time the Lord would not make a full end LIKE IT DID HAPPEN IN GENESIS 1:2. FOR AN OBVIOUS REASON THAT GOD IN GENESIS 1:2 OPTED TO COMMENCE A NEW PHYSICAL CREATION, ONCE THE SPIRITUAL ONE FAILED AND AN INTERMEDIATE AND INFERIOR NEW STATE HAD TO BE ESTABLISHED FOR THE SAKE OF GOD’S KINGDOM, PRECISELY THE KINGDOM OF THE SON/HUMAN/GOD BY WHICH THE ENTIRE CREATION BOTH SPIRITUAL AND PHYSICAL BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD IN ONE SAME BLOOD AND ONE SAME FATHER IN JESUS CHRIST.
Peace and love in Jesus Christ
Downity stages a come back
The math for ME knowing that things heavier than air fall DOWN to the earth is the same exact math you use for the same exact phenomena.
We all agree that heavier things fall DOWN to earth… and we even all call it falling DOWN…
List the experiments that you or your team has done to prove this claim.
Look at the old video I posted. Team Globe demonstrated the gravitational attraction between objects and as chances would have it, they are not down. Watch it. I’ve even located the relevant section in the video for you.
CHALLENGE: Complete.
Further, the math for gravity doesn’t work on a flat earth. Because the centre of mass on a disc is your north pole. Thus the math predicts attraction toward that point and we do not observe things moving in that direction.
Your counter argument that the math works on a flat earth has been debunked.
DEBUNK STATUS: Debunked.
The old Newton, Einstein, Quantum conflict argument
And how does your claim that it’s true 100% of the time align with the fact that Einsteinian gravity, Newtonian gravity, and quantum gravity are at odds with each other?
Not correct. Einstein perfected Newton’s gravity and he visualised it. I’m not 100% sure, but I think Newton’s equations didn’t work with acceleration, but by the time Einstein was done, it was perfect. It always works. Truth is always true. Lies cannot be 100 percent correct.
As for quantum and gravity being at odds with each other, I’ll put it this way. They describe and predict two different worlds, so it is not entirely surprising that they are different. The challenge is how do the two connect or form a grand unified theory.
If a theory predicts with 100 percent accuracy the things we can see, and another the smallest of things we cannot see, then the next logical step is connecting the two together. And therein lies the challenge for physics today.
While you guys are failing to provide proof of the stone age flat earth, team globe is working on The Theory of Everything. Team Globe is thousands of years ahead of you guys. We created the modern world and you enjoy the benefits. Your welcome. So what have flat earthers ever given mankind besides superstition and persecution of great minds? I’ll wait.
Berean: Maybe the word “LAND” never refers to the whole world “land AND sea” (I haven’t checked all the verses) BUT WHAT I MEAN MOSTLY IS THAT THE WORD “EARTH” ALSO MEANS IN CERTAIN PASSAGES OF THE BIBLE”THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH”.
Yes, the word “earth” is sometimes idiomatically used in the Bible to refer to the people who live ON the earth… much as we still use “earth” and “world” today to refer to the people OF the earth/world.
But that is something very different than “erets” being used for both land and sea – and doesn’t have anything to do with my point that the very earth itself (dry land), did not exist until Day 3 of creation.
Cheers.
Proclaimer: Look at the old video I posted. Team Globe demonstrated the gravitational attraction between objects and as chances would have it, they are not down. Watch it. I’ve even located the relevant section in the video for you.
I watched the experiment. Using your own logical thinking, did anything about it strike you as odd? No? Okay, I’ll let you borrow my logical thinking for a minute…
1. Why is this not the most famous experiment in the world, since it conclusively proves mass-to-mass gravitational attraction? Why was this the FIRST time that I, you, and everyone else watching that video has ever heard of it? We’ve ALL heard of Newton and the apple falling from the tree, right? Why then isn’t this experiment even MORE famous throughout the world for PROVING Newton’s theory? Why doesn’t every science classroom in the world have one of these devices as a teaching tool?
2. The claim in the video is that the movement of the small orbs towards the big ones is so minuscule that the mirror was needed to mark the movement on the scale. Um… why? If the small orbs were initially attracted to the larger ones, then what would STOP their movement towards them?
Understand? If they moved even a micrometer towards the larger orbs because of gravity, then they would CONTINUE that movement until they touched the larger orbs, right? In which case there would be no need for the mirror and scale since we would all SEE with our own eyes that the smaller balls began moving towards the larger ones… and kept on moving until they made contact.
3. As a side issue, notice how the theory (as explained right at the beginning of where you queued the video) says that the amount of mass in each object determines the amount of gravitational pull. I’ve always wondered why then objects of ANY mass fall to the earth at the same speed. There’s even the old experiment with the feather and the bowling ball being dropped in a vacuum chamber, and they both fall at the same rate. It seems to me that the bowling ball has considerably more mass, and therefore a much greater gravitational attraction to the earth. Shouldn’t it fall faster – at least at first until both objects reach maximum free fall speed? What do you think about that? (I’m trying to kick start the logical thinking portion of YOUR brain, so you start asking these kinds of questions instead of just putting some search words into Google, finding a vid or article that you think supports your narrative, and posting it with a “See how stupid and science illiterate you are, Mike?” snarky comment.)
Proclaimer: CHALLENGE: Complete.
I don’t think so. I suspect that this was another Foucault’s Pendulum situation, where someone devised a mechanism that SEEMS complicated to fool ignorant people who can’t think for themselves. Only nobody in the world knows about this one.
Proclaimer: Further, the math for gravity doesn’t work on a flat earth. Because the centre of mass on a disc is your north pole. Thus the math predicts attraction toward that point and we do not observe things moving in that direction.
Your counter argument that the math works on a flat earth has been debunked.
Hmm… Why exactly would the center of mass be the north pole on a disk earth?
Besides, you have yet to demonstrate proof of gravity in the first place. All we currently know is that if you drop a ball in NZ, it will fall DOWN to the ground, and if I drop one here in AZ, it will also fall DOWN to the ground. Your idea that one of the balls is falling in a different direction than the other based on gravitational attraction to the center of a very large ball called Earth has yet to be verified.
Imagine a force so powerful that it can hold the largest aircraft carrier upside-down to a ball, but also so weak that the tiniest gnat can easily escape its grasp and flitter around with virtually no effort. Mind-boggling.
(Okay, this is your queue to go type some search terms into Google and let the articles and videos you find do your thinking for you.)
Mike: And how does your claim that it’s true 100% of the time align with the fact that Einsteinian gravity, Newtonian gravity, and quantum gravity are at odds with each other?
Proclaimer: Not correct. Einstein perfected Newton’s gravity and he visualised it. I’m not 100% sure, but I think Newton’s equations didn’t work with acceleration, but by the time Einstein was done, it was perfect. It always works. Truth is always true. Lies cannot be 100 percent correct.
So you’re basically saying that one equation had to be “perfected” by another? So how could the first one have been “true 100% of the time” if it had to be “perfected” (which is the erroneous way YOU put it)?
Proclaimer: As for quantum and gravity being at odds with each other, I’ll put it this way. They describe and predict two different worlds, so it is not entirely surprising that they are different.
Two different worlds? How many different worlds do we live in?
Proclaimer: If a theory predicts with 100 percent accuracy the things we can see…
You keep saying these words, as if they have anything to do with this “mass-to-mass force” that you call gravity. They don’t. What the math shows is that objects drop DOWN to the earth at a certain rate. And from that, we can calculate how much force we need to apply to an object of a certain weight and shape to make it go UP away from the earth.
That’s all the math shows. The rest is just imagination. For example: Since we know the rate at which things fall DOWN to the earth, and we’ve ASSERTED that the earth is a ball of X size and mass, then we can use these equations to further ASSERT that the moon, which we’ve ASSERTED has Y mass, would attract another object of Z mass at such and such a rate. And we can put these equations into supercomputers, and ASSERT all kinds of things about stars and planets – which we’ve already ASSERTED are giant fireballs and rocks in what we’ve ASSERTED is a huge vacuum of outer space.
But you have yet to PROVE any of those assertions. IS the earth a ball of X size and mass? PROVE it. IS the moon a different ball of Y size and mass? PROVE it. And so on and so on.
Let me remind you of the words of one of the world’s truly great scientists…
Proclaimer: While you guys are failing to provide proof of the stone age flat earth, team globe is working on The Theory of Everything. Team Globe is thousands of years ahead of you guys. We created the modern world and you enjoy the benefits. Your welcome.
All that “Team Globe” has created is a bunch of UNVERIFIED ASSERTIONS, and equation after equation that results in a structure that has no relation to reality. You have indeed created “the modern world”. It’s just that your “modern world” blatantly contradicts observation, common sense, and the world that was described for us in the Bible by the One who actually created it.
Proclaimer: So what have flat earthers ever given mankind besides superstition and persecution of great minds? I’ll wait.
You mean besides the written account of God’s creation and plan for mankind? You mean besides the teachings of our Lord Jesus?
Proclaimer, are you seriously suggesting that any VERIFIABLE scientific advancement in history was dependent upon the earth being a spinning water ball? Name just ONE thing.
Truth is that we’re ALL flat earthers. It’s just that some of us have been indoctrinated into believing that we live on a ball hurtling through space at millions of mile per hour. That belief hasn’t had any effect on any scientific advancement in history. Prove me wrong.
Okay Proclaimer, I’ve been spending way too much time addressing your nonsensical memes, videos, and claims. I only came back to this thread in case Danny had any questions to ask or insights to share on his journey. And while I was here, I figured I’d see if you would be able to answer any of my “Bible Vs Scientism” claims that you ran away from in the “Conspiracies” thread and also in our private thread.
Unfortunately, but also predictably, you are just running away from them here too.
Right now, I want you to say on record the following words – just so we’re all clear on your stance…
“Mike, when the Bible says that God MADE the sun, moon and stars and PLACED them in the firmament which He named “heaven” on Day 4, those words actually mean that the sun, moon, and stars already existed and were already in their places, and that the hazy/polluted atmosphere just happened to clear up enough via natural means that, had someone existed on earth at that time, they would have been able to SEE them for the first time. THAT’S what those scriptural words actually mean, Mike.”
Please affirm or deny that this is in fact your stance. If you affirm it, please state that this truly IS what you believe for the record. Thanks.
Welcome to my world, Danny. I started this thread many years ago with good intentions. And it started off with some lively discussion. But eventually, it turned into Proclaimer just spouting nonsensical stuff in the most condescending, insulting and ridiculing manner he could muster. That’s why I walked away from it for so many years until you posted here.
And remember that your first post was something like, “Proclaimer, I can’t believe Mike thinks the earth is flat!”
I didn’t attack you. I just pointed you to some info, and encouraged you to at least look into it and come to your own conclusion. Berean currently believes what the Bible says about the age of the earth – but not what it says about the shape of it. I won’t attack him/her either. You can lead a horse to the water, but you can’t force him to drink it.
Yes and I really appreciate you for that.
Thanks for being that loving and caring.Mike: Joshua 6:2-15… Then Yahweh said to Joshua… March around the city once with all the armed men. Do this for six days… On the seventh day, march around the city seven times…
IS GOD TALKING TO JOSHUA ABOUT SIX LITERAL DAYS FOLLOWED BY A SEVENTH LITERAL DAY? YES OR NO?
Exodus 20:9-11… Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a sabbath to Yahweh your God. On it you shall not do any work…
IS GOD TALKING TO MOSES AND THE ISRAELITES ABOUT SIX LITERAL DAYS FOLLOWED BY A SEVENTH LITERAL DAY? YES OR NO?
Exodus 20:11… For in six days Yahweh made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day.
IS GOD TALKING TO MOSES AND THE ISRAELITES ABOUT SIX LITERAL DAYS FOLLOWED BY A SEVENTH LITERAL DAY? YES OR NO?
Berean: Normally, everyone should be able to answer this crucial question, I hope ….
You would certainly think so. But no direct and honest answer from Gene, Carmel, or Proclaimer so far. Makes you wonder why. 😉
Thanks Danny. How goes your investigation? Hopefully you’re learning so many things about reality that simply don’t fit into the heliocentric model. I know I sure did. But mostly, I learned to think logically (and scripturally) about EVERY claim made by “the powers that be”.
Mike….. The earth is going around the sun at a speed of 67,000 miles an hour. That is the exact speed it takes for it to keep from being drawn into the sun. Anything faster would cause us to leave the orbit around the sun, anything less would cause us to be drawn into the sun.
Example…..lets say we had a pole in the ground, and we tied a base ball to it by a “rubber band” (equals gravity) , and we started the ball traveling around the pole and the faster it was traveling around the more it would pull against and streach it, and if we increased the speed of the ball it would eventually snap the rubber ban , and go flying off. But if we regulate the speed to a point where the ball would be straight out from the pole and leave it , the ball (earth) would continue in that same obrit forever. Because of the “mass” of the earth, to the “mass” of the sun it requires our earth to travel at that (EXACT) speed. Comon sense 101. Newton proven right again!
Now if we wanted the earth to experence day and night, we would kick start the earth to spin in a perpendicular orbit also, and if we want the day and night to be experence in a 24 hour period and the earth was 24000 miles in crcumference, we would cause it to turn at 1000 miles per hour and in 24 hours a complete day and night cycle period would have taken place. Again common sense 101.
The earth is tilted off it’s axis, just enough to cause our seasons, which continues ever year for 365 days, and starts over again EACH YEAR, as we traveling 67000 miles and hour to complete our cycle around the sun.
So there are three thing to take into count,
1…….speed of the earth orbit around the sun.
2…….Speed of the earth spinning, not quite perpendicular to the sun, WHICH GIVES US OUR DAYs AND NIGHTs.
3……The tilt which give us OUR SEASONS.
MIKE, YOU SO FAR HAVE NOT DISPROVEN A SINGLE POINT , WITH YOUR FLAT EARTH GARABAGE YET?
Peace and love to you and yours……….gene
Yes @genebalthrop
Mike is delusional.
He hasn’t debunked a single argument that proves the globe and he has been debunked so many times that the only conclusion left is he is delusional. And his statement about logic and scripture demonstrate his delusion.
The flat earth flies in the face of not only logic, but countless observations and proofs. He has been wrecked in this discussion and on YouTube by the likes of Dazza the Camera man..
Scripturally speaking, his no1 verse worked for the globe better than it did for the flat earth and his no2 scripture for the flat earth too was debunked as a flat earth verse. And he hasn’t got the guts to put forward a new verse, because he knows he has no verse at all. Despite that, it doesn’t stop him from pretending that the bible supports his view. Peddling lies is a sin. No two ways about it. But it is his life. He holds the rudder and can sail in any direction he wants. Ultimately, we will have to give an account for our own lives on that day. And that day is not far off.
“Mike, when the Bible says that God MADE the sun, moon and stars and PLACED them in the firmament which He named “heaven” on Day 4, those words actually mean that the sun, moon, and stars already existed and were already in their places, and that the hazy/polluted atmosphere just happened to clear up enough via natural means that, had someone existed on earth at that time, they would have been able to SEE them for the first time. THAT’S what those scriptural words actually mean, Mike.”
Sorry Mike, lets talk about reality. You have not responded to 90 something % of arguments against the flat earth made in this topic, whereas I have answered most of your concerns. You then try and paint the false picture that the roles are reversed. Sounds like the strategy the democrats in your country practice. That is, pin their own sins on their opponents and repeat it enough times in the hope it sticks.
Now to answer your question again.
The firmament is the sky Mike. And the scriptures say that they were placed or set in the firmament on day 4. So the lights could be seen in the sky to mark times and seasons. And obviously, for day and night too as already mentioned back in day 1.
Now to day 1. It says that the heavens and earth were created before the conclusion of day 1. Further, it says the earth was formless and void and there was darkness on the surface. The first thing to happen (prior to day 1 concluding) was the presence of light which divided the day and night. Ask anyone what light exists that created day and night. Ask a 3 year old. Ask a scientist. Even ask a flat earther what that could be. If you were asked that question on a game show for 1 million dollars you would also admit it.
Understand? If they moved even a micrometer towards the larger orbs because of gravity, then they would CONTINUE that movement until they touched the larger orbs, right? In which case there would be no need for the mirror and scale since we would all SEE with our own eyes that the smaller balls began moving towards the larger ones… and kept on moving until they made contact.
Not quite and it would take a while. Eventually, it would find equilibrium like the sun and earth. They wouldn’t touch. It’s not a black hole. Remember, the small ball has its own gravity, so it would eventually push against the big ball and both would settle.
There is also the fact that the small ball is attached to a rod in this device, so it would eventually reach a point of maximum closeness because of that. Overall, the movement may be hard to see or notice with your own eyes. But you could setup a camera.
Why not buy such a device yourself. Just like your colleagues who purchased that $20,000 gyroscope or the guys who did the laser test with the holes in the boards. It would be good to see another revelation of truth surprise you and would be interesting to see how you deal with that.
Maybe try using a device like this one?
William Shatner either saw the curve or he is getting paid or blackmailed to say it.
I say he saw it. Mike says that he is telling lies.
Fact: Mike accuses many (directly or indirectly) of telling lies.
The earth is travelling at 1000 mph. Why can’t we feel it?
FEs will say that the earth is stationary and if it were travelling at 1000 mph, then you would feel the wind and there would be all kinds of problems associated with that. But they do not understand what the earth travelling at that speed really means.
Yes the earth spins but it’s not what FEs think. Because they don’t understand physics or relative motion. In one hour the earth rotates about this much… Enough to cover the distance of about 1000 Miles (give or take) It’s size makes every movement a huge jump. Similar to how every one step we take, an ant would have to take 100. Imagine how fast the ant would have to be moving, relative to it’s size, in order for it to be able to keep up with us.
Once again, this is just another example of FEs not understanding how big the earth really is.
DEBUNK STATUS: Debunked.
DEBUNK DIFFICULTY: Medium.
FEs will say that the earth is stationary and if it were travelling at 1000 mph, then you would feel the wind and there would be all kinds of problems associated with that. But they do not understand what the earth travelling at that speed really means.
The problem is not with FE alone brother, the original problem is very well found stationary in the ancient Biblical texts….
Earth is fixed and immovable:
1 Chronicles 16:30 tremble before him, all the earth.
The world is firmly established; it shall never be moved.Psalm 33:8-9 8 Let all the earth fear the Lord;
let all the inhabitants of the world stand in awe of him.
For he spoke, and it came to be;
he commanded, and it stood firm.Psalm 93:1 The Lord is king, he is robed in majesty;
the Lord is robed, he is girded with strength.
He has established the world; it shall never be moved;Psalm 96:10 Say among the nations, ‘The Lord is king!
The world is firmly established; it shall never be moved.
He will judge the peoples with equity.’Psalm 104:5 You set the earth on its foundations,
so that it shall never be shaken.Psalm 119:89-90 The Lord exists for ever;
your word is firmly fixed in heaven.
Your faithfulness endures to all generations;
you have established the earth, and it stands fast.Zechariah 1:11 So they answered the Angel of the Lord, who stood among the myrtle trees, and said, “We have walked to and fro throughout the earth, and behold, all the earth is resting quietly.”
Sun Moves, not the Earth: Genesis 15:12, Genesis 15:17, Genesis 19:23, Genesis 32:31, Exodus 17:12, Exodus 22:3, Exodus 22:26, Leviticus 22:7, Numbers 2:3, Numbers 21:11, Numbers 34:15, Deuteronomy 4:41, Deuteronomy 4:47, Deuteronomy 11:30, Deuteronomy 16:6, Deuteronomy 23:11, Deuteronomy 24:13, Deuteronomy 24:15, Joshua 1:15, Joshua 8:29, Joshua 10:27, Joshua 12:1, Joshua 13:5, Joshua 19:12, Joshua 19:27, Joshua 19:34, Judges 8:13, Judges 9:33, Judges 14:18, Judges 19:14, Judges 20:43, 2 Samuel 2:24, 2 Samuel 3:35, 2 Samuel 23:4, 1 Kings 22:36, 2 Chronicles 18:34, Psalm 50:1, Psalm 113:3, Ecclesiastes 1:5, Isaiah 41:25, Isaiah 45:6, Isaiah 59:19, Jeremiah 15:9, Daniel 6:14, Amos 8:9, Jonah 4:8, Micah 3:6, Nahum 3:17, Malachi 1:11, Matthew 5:45, Mark 16:2, Ephesians 4:26, James 1:11
Sun STOPS moving: Isaiah 60:20, Job 9:7, Joshua 10:12–14, Habakkuk 3:11
Sun moves BACKWARDS: 2 Kings 20:8–11
Earth has Pillars, and hangs on nothing: 1 Samuel 2:8, Job 9:6, Job 26:7, Psalm 75:3, 2 Peter 3:5
Sorry gadam. Your attempt to debunk the bible has failed again. Nothing here says the earth is flat or the stationary centre of the cosmos.
You are taking verses out of context. People are pillars in scriture too and no one interprets them as standing on stone towers. People are also stong and immovable. And when was the last time you moved earth. Immovable means you can’t budge it from its place or course. I guess if you can do that, then you might have something. Further, most of these verses are not even talking about planet earth.
As usual gadam, you need to copy and paste long bits of text to make your desires look legit. You know that if you made one point at a time that they would be debunked.
When you break it down gadam, you have nothing. Only a fool or a seriously biased person (who is also a fool) would interpret these verses the way you do.
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