Firstborn of/over all creation

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  • #834147
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick.                                              here the reast of the chapter:

    Matthew 6 New King James Version (NKJV)

    Do Good to Please God

    “Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you[a]openly.

    The Model Prayer

    “And when you pray, you shall not be like the [b]hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you [c]openly. And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do.For they think that they will be heard for their many words.

    “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him. In this manner, therefore, pray:

    Our Father in heaven,
    Hallowed be Your name.
    10 Your kingdom come.
    Your will be done
    On earth as it is in heaven.
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.
    12 And forgive us our debts,
    As we forgive our debtors.
    13 And do not lead us into temptation,
    But deliver us from the evil one.
    [d]For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

    14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

    Fasting to Be Seen Only by God

    16 “Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the [e]hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you [f]openly.

    Lay Up Treasures in Heaven

    19 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

    The Lamp of the Body

    22 “The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is[g]good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is[h]bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

    You Cannot Serve God and Riches

    24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and[i]mammon.

    Do Not Worry

    25 “Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing? 26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 Which of you by worrying can add one [j]cubit to his[k]stature?

    28 “So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin; 29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not [l]arrayed like one of these. 30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?

    31 “Therefore do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.     All what things Nick. God bless.

     

    #834148
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick

    You said Anthony

    The Body of his glory.

    Did you miss this?    I’m glad you aslas that Nick.The Glorified body what is it?         We know one thing already that this takes place after death, at the the resurrection of the dead.  (At the Second coming of Christ). “There dead Nick.” Not alive for one thing.  Now let’s see what a glorified body is.

    God bless

     

     

    #834149
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Do you serve the king and the lord when you offer false teachings about all being saved?

    Why do you call me LORD, LORD, and not do as I say?

     

    #834150
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Ignorant theives would rob you of your inheritance.

    Do not offer their teachings instead of the Lord’s

    #834151
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Parables are truth.

    Why do you not believe the Lord?

    #834154
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You would try to divide the gifts of the Holy Spirit from the lifegiving nature of the eternal Spirit?

    All in support of your dead dogmas?

    #834156
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick

    You said:

    Hi Anthony,

    Do you serve the king and the lord when you offer false teachings about all being saved?

    Why do you call me LORD, LORD, and not do as I say?

    Well Nick there only three way to believe in the restoration of all thing. Uneversal salvation,  eternal torment in a literal  hell . Or eternal deth. Well I hope you know what hell really means. And eternal death Nick tell me why doesn’t God just leave them in the grave but He doesn’t there’s really no scene to  resurrected the unjust is there?  Well I hope  I’m doing what He says (Nick you really should work out your on salvation and stop judging me ) the only thing I can do about this subject Nick  is to study to show myself approved a workman rightly  dividing the word of truth Nick. Which I’m  doing. (You said Why do you call me LORD, LORD, and not do as I say?) I’ll take you to the context of this scripture that you just throw in there to try to make me out something that I’m not. But I realize we’re it’coming from I’ forgive you Nick.  I’m not scared of you, I’LL speak my truth. But we were talking about the glorified body .then we’ll talk about

    Why do you call me LORD, LORD, and not do as I say? But will have to do that later I have to go right now.   God bless

    #834157
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    It was never given to us to judge the ways of our God.

    He is the one Who makes the rules and He is loving and merciful.

    Neither can we teach the salvation of all as it was never spoken of by His Son.

    #834159
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Let God be God.

    He offered us all a one-off deal.

    He sent His Son to save sinners so we need to see ourselves that way.

    He demands all men everywhere repent and seek His forgiveness in baptism in the name of His Son.

    That He will share with them His Spirit, the Spirit given to His Son.

    No universal salvation just the doorway of the gospel.

    Take it or leave it but don’t invent other stuff.

    #834160
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    What folks need to understand is that they were in a hopeless situation.

    Realise the significance of the offer.

    Refusal is fraught.

    #834161
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    Yes. Do not fear men.

    But it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

    We are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

    Heb 10.39

    #834162
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick what people need to  know is truth Nick.  not your mysterious doctorines that you get from your imagination,then, you take scriptures  out of context and try to fit in to your mysterious doctorines. Your getting them from somewhere because alot,  not all don’t go along with scriptures, so your forced to take scriptures out of context to make thing fit.( Nick you can’t force the pieces of the puzzle to make them fit)  you really have to have a open mind and study scriptures fairly, this is between you and God not me. God bless

    #834163
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick

    The glorified body.

    Often when referring to the resurrection, Christians will speak of receiving their “new” body. That way of speaking is not necessarily wrong if the meaning is that our current bodies will be renewed so that they are “as good as (or, better than) new.” But we should not think of the resurrection as the reception of a new body in the sense that we are given a different body disconnected from the body we had on earth.

    Instead, the Bible teaches that the resurrection is a transformation of the same bodies we had on earth. As humans, we are not just spiritual, but physical. Our bodies are a very important part of our identity–they are part of who we are. Therefore, if we deny that we are raised with the same bodies we had on earth, we are denying a significant part of our identity. At the same time, if we deny that our resurrected bodies are transformed, we are left with the depressing idea that we will forever be subject to the weaknesses we now have, such as sickness, fatigue, etc. “The old body will become a new body. But it will still be your body. There will be continuity. God is able to do what we cannot imagine. The resurrection is not described in terms of a totally new creation but in terms of a change of the old creation”

    We will have the same bodies
    There are many Scriptural reasons for believing that we will be raised with the same body that died. First, Christ was raised in the same body He had before He died. We know this because the tomb was empty (Luke 24:1-6) and because His resurrected body retained scars from the crucifixion (John 20:2527). Since Christ’s resurrection is the pattern that our resurrection will follow (Philippians 3:20-211 Cor. 15:49), then we will also be raised with the same body.

    Second, this is also evident from the very meaning of the term “resurrection of the dead” (1 Corinthians 15:13, etc.). The phrase means: that which is dead (namely, our body) is made alive. If the same body that died is not the body that was raised, Paul could not call it the “resurrection of the dead.” It would not be a resurrection at all.

    Third, the phrase “the dead will be raised” (1 Cor. 15:52) also communicates this. If God meant to start all over with no continuity between the body I have now and the one I will have, why would Paul say ‘the dead will be raised’? Why would he not say, ‘the dead will not be raised (since they are decomposed and their molecules are scattered into plants and animals for a thousand miles) and so God will start from scratch’? He did not say that, because it is not true.

    Fourth, Philippians 3:20-1 says that our earthly body is transformed into conformity with Christ’s body in the resurrection, not that God creates a new body from scratch: “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.”

    Fifth, Jesus speaks of the resurrection as involving the coming forth out of tombs, which strongly indicates that the resurrection is the reanimation of the body that had been lied to rest originally: “An hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment” (John 5:28-29).

    Sixth, Paul’s statement “it is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body” (1 Corinthians 15:42) establishes that there is a continuity between our current body and our resurrected body, for it is the same “it” in both cases.

    Seventh, verse 53 indicates that the same body we have now (which is mortal), will become immortal: “For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.”

    We will have transformed body
    In 1 Corinthians 15:35-37, it may appear as if Paul is teaching that we are raised with a different body than which we had on earth: “…what you sow is not made alive unless it dies. And what you sow, you do not sow the body that shall be, but mere grain.” But upon examining the whole context, we see that Paul is not denying that it will be the same body. Instead, he is affirming that in the resurrection our bodies will be made better than the state they are now in.

    In fact, this passage teaches a continuity between our bodies now and in the resurrected state by using the analogy from agriculture. Paul compares the resurrection of the body to the growth of a plant from a seed. The plant that results is definitely much better than the seed, just as our resurrection bodies will be better than those we have now. But there is also a real continuity between the seed and the plant, for they are the same organism. The same seed that was sown becomes the plant that grows. Likewise, the same body we have now becomes our resurrected body. But just as the plant is a result of the seed being transformed into something with better capacities and qualities, so also in the resurrection our bodies will receive better qualities and capacities. Thus, when Paul says that we do not yet have the body that shall be, he means that our current bodies are not yet in their glorified and improved state (see verses 42-44). They are not as they will be.

    Paul also affirms that the resurrection involves the transformation of our current bodies in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. “Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed.”  “He said two things: the dead will be raised(that teaches continuity); and the dead will be changed (they will be made imperishable)

    In what sense will our bodies be transformed? Paul tells us in verse 42-44. He says that our current bodies are weak, perishable, unglorified, and natural. But in the resurrection state they will be powerful, imperishable, glorious, and spiritual. Our bodies will be powerful–they will not be subject to stress or fatigue or weakness. Our bodies will be imperishable–they will not get sick, die, age, or become injured. Our bodies will be spiritual–they will be fully oriented to and filled with the Holy Spirit. And our bodies will be glories.

    Because the word ‘glory’ is so frequently used in Scripture of the bright shining radiance that surrounds the presence of God himself, this term suggests that there will also be a kind of brightness or radiance surrounding our bodies that will be an appropriate outward evidence of the position of exaltation and rule over all creation that God has given us. This is also suggested in Matthew 13:43, where Jesus says, ‘Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.’ Similarly, we read in Daniel’s vision, ‘And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever’ There alittle more Nick.  Then will talk about: “Why do you call me LORD, LORD, and not do as I say?”  God bless

    #834164
     Anthony 
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    Hi Nick

    Have you ever came across these scriptures?

    The resurrection of Jesus is a fundamental and essential doctrine of Christianity.  The resurrection of Jesus is so important that without it Christianity is false.  Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:14, “and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain.”  Three verses later, in verse 17, he again says, “and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.” Though there are many subjects with which Christians may disagree and still be considered Christian, this is not one of them.  To deny the resurrection of Jesus is to deny the heart of Christianity itself.

    However, the problem in the resurrection isn’t so much in agreeing that Jesus rose but in how He rose. Unfortunately, cults attack the resurrection of Christ and reinterpret it in different ways thereby denying His physical resurrection.  We must ask if Jesus rose from the dead in the very same body He died in, or did He rise in a spirit body that was not flesh and bones?  The answer to this question is vital.  It separates true Christians from false systems.  Therefore, here is the correct doctrine of Christ’s resurrection; I consider it so important that it must be set off by itself as a statement of truth:

    “Jesus rose from the dead in the very same physical body in which He died. This resurrected, physical body was a glorified, spiritual body.  The spiritual body is not merely “spirit.” The spiritual body is the resurrected, glorified, physical body.”

    The above statement is the correct doctrine of Scripture.  As such, it stands against the Jehovah’s Witness and the Shepherd’s Chapel groups that state that Jesus did not rise bodily but spiritually.  Neither group seeks to deny the obvious biblical declaration of Christ’s resurrection; but they change the meaning of the resurrection, so that it really didn’t happen. Did Jesus rise from the dead in the same physical body in which He died?  Yes!

    After the resurrection, Jesus was able to eat (Luke 24:42-43).  He showed people His hands and feet with the nail prints in them (Luke 24:39John 20:27), and people even grabbed His feet and worshipped Him (ï. 28:9).  As the reports of Jesus’ resurrection were spreading, Thomas, who was doubting the resurrection of Christ, said, “Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25).  Later, Jesus appeared to Thomas and said to him, “Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.” (John 20:27).

    If Jesus’ body had not risen, then He would not have feet and hands with the same holes of the nails of the crucifixion. Consider the following verses as further proof that His very body was raised:”When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.”  20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side.The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord.” (John 20:19-20).”And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?  39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:38-39).

    It is obvious that Jesus was raised in the same body in which He died–with the same holes in His hands and feet.  We see that Jesus proclaimed He had flesh and bones.  Does a “spirit body” consist of flesh and bones?  Not at all.

    I have heard it said that Jesus’ physical body died, but His spiritual body was raised.  If this is so, then does the spiritual body consist of flesh and bones as well as the physical one?  It makes no sense.  Also, if Jesus did not rise physically, then what happened to His body?  Was it dissolved? Was it moved somewhere?  There is no biblical account of what happened to Jesus’ body other than that it was raised from the dead.  Therefore, His body was raised from the dead.

    John 2:19-21

    “Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.”  20 The Jews therefore said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?”  21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.” (John 2:19-21).

    The phrase “I will raise” is translated from the single Greek word “egeiro.”  “Egeiro” is the future, active, indicative, 1st-person singular.  The active voice in Greek designates who is performing the action.  In this case, since it is first person, singular (“I”), Jesus is saying that He Himself would perform the action of the resurrection.  This is precisely what the Greek says.

    However, some still deny that Jesus rose from the dead physically–even when examining John 2:19-21.  We can clearly see that Jesus prophesied that He would raise up the temple of His body as is clarified in verse 21 by John the apostle who states that Jesus was speaking of “the temple of his body.”  Therefore, this should be conclusive proof that Jesus rose from the dead in the same body in which He died. Clearly, John 2:19-21 shows us that Jesus predicted He would raise His very body–and He did so.  Is this enough to put this issue to rest?  You’d think so but resistance persists.

    1 Cor. 15:353942-44

    35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?. . . 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. . . 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead.  It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.  If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

    Verse 44 above is used in an attempt to establish the idea that Jesus did not rise physically but spiritually.  Of course, I’ve already established above that Jesus was raised in the same body He died in–with the same holes in His hands and feet. We also saw that Jesus proclaimed He had flesh and bones (Luke 24:39).  Again, does a “spirit body” consist of flesh and bones?  The scripture nowhere declares such a thing.

    Paul is not stating that there are two separate bodies to each person, the physical and the spiritual; and that after the physical one dies, the second and different spirit body takes over.  Rather, when referencing the same body, he states, “it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.” (v. 44).  The “it” is referring to the same body in both clauses–not separate and different ones.  This same body becomes a resurrected body–which is the spiritual body to which He is referring. In other words, the spiritual body is the very same body he previously had, though it had been changed into a spiritual one.

    “For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.  54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.” (1 Cor. 15:53-54).

    Our perishable and mortal bodies put on the imperishable and immortal aspects of the spiritual body which is the physically resurrected and changed body of the believer.  Jesus was simply the first fruits of this resurrection (1 Cor. 15:20).  Therefore, we can see that our future resurrected bodies will be spiritual bodies.  But, those spiritual bodies are in fact physical–the same bodies we have now only glorified.  Otherwise, there is no resurrection.

    God bless Nick

     

    #834165
     Anthony 
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    Hi All

    For in the last days the false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate.
    16:7 For as lawlessness increases, they shall hate one another and shall persecute and betray.

    God bless.

    #834166
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Anthony. ..I believe Mr. MARTIAN HAS DESCRIBED the parable of the richman and Lazarus correctly. I was in the same church as he wasm the WWCG 40 years ago, he was a very good teacher then, i left that church about the same time he did.

    Don’t get discouraged by Nick, he wants us to belive he has spritual understandings and yet he denies so much spritual truths. As you and Jodi, and others atest to. He likes to climb up in to his high tower he has built for himself and shoot his firey darts at us, but the truth will prevail.

    Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene

    #834168
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Once upon a time, I used to believe like you do, that we inherit eternal life at the coming of Christ, i.e. at the resurrection into life. What you been regurgitating here is nothing new to me.

    You: You have not produced a scripture that says the dead saints came alive without bodies and went to heaven. Neither have you produced a scripture that shows at Pentecost people received the Holy Spirit that caused them to have a form of immortality and receive a body later at Christ’s coming.

    Me: Really! You are funny?  If you need an infinite amount of scriptures to see, then I guess a finite number, no matter how large, approaches zero.
    The below biblical quotes prove you wrong. You have not incorporated all of the below in your paradigm. Tell me how all of the following fit: Phil 1:21-24, 2 Cor 5:6-9, 2 Cor 12:1-4, Luke 23:42, John 5:24, 2 Cor 6:2, John 5:24, and Job 14:13.

    You: When they received this Spirit it didn’t make them immortal, it made them messengers of God with the purpose to bring people into faith, so that they could be counted worthy of the resurrection at Christ’s coming.

    Me: Whose “they”? You ask very ambiguous questions. If you are addressing the Old Testament prophets, they are made immortal when they are awaked spiritually from the dead at Pentecost. If you are addressing those that receive the holy spirit after Christ’s resurrection, they must endure until the end. I have repeatedly qualified all my statements. If you cannot get what I said right, how can you get the holy scriptures right? You haven’t as far as I am concerned.

    You: Receiving the Holy Spirit when you are alive we are specifically told what that means, you are given gifts of the Spirit, some to speak in tongues, some to prophecy, some to heal, etc..

    New American Standard Bible
    1 Cor 13:2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

    Me: You put too much emphasis on gifts. God is love. It is better to have the spirit of God in you that gives everlasting life than to have all the gifts in the world. That doesn’t give you life. God gives us eternal life now because he died for us. The gifts he gives us now does not compare.

    Matt 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. ..19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

    Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

    #834169
     Truthcomber 
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    Hi Jodi,

    You: When they received this Spirit it didn’t make them immortal, it made them messengers of God with the purpose to bring people into faith, so that they could be counted worthy of the resurrection at Christ’s coming

    Me: Again, you have read me wrong. I never said we are immortal when we receive the holy spirit. I have always said those that endure to the end will be save. Yes, we have passed from death unto life. But we receive the earnest of down payment of the holy spirit and are expected to grow in it (Luke 14:27-29).

    You: 20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruit(S) of them that slept.
    NOTICE TC that it is ONLY Christ that rose from the dead.

     

    Me:
    James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruitS of his creatures.

    Me: You completely misunderstand what” firstfruits” are in the context of what we are discussing here. Firstfruits, of the feast of weeks, mean the first small harvest among all of mankind. It means the church or first small harvest of which Christ is the cornerstone. Verse 20 above does not say that only Christ has risen from the dead. It says that Christ is the first of those that had slept, those that had died before he was risen from the dead. He is the first of those that slept, past tense, not those that will sleep.

    Young’s Literal Translation
    1 Thes 4:14 for if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,

    Me: How many times will Christ rise from the dead? It is one time. So what can we say about “again” in 1 Thes 4:14. Click on the link below. Then click on 450 above “rose again”.

    https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_thessalonians/4-14.htm
    Definition: I raise up, set up; I rise from among (the) dead; I arise, appear.

    Below is one example on the right margin where 450 is used in the future tense.
    Matthew 12:41 V-FIM-3P
    GRK: ἄνδρες Νινευῖται ἀναστήσονται ἐν τῇ
    NAS: of Nineveh will stand up with this
    KJV: of Nineveh shall rise in
    INT: the men of nineveh will stand up in the

    Me: So therefore 1 Thes 4:14 could have be translated as:

    1 Thes 4:14 for if we believe that Jesus died and “will appear”, so also God those asleep through Jesus he will bring with him,

    Also click on Also click on “2837” above “having fallen asleep”. One of the definitions is “metaphorically, to still, calm, quiet”. This fits the definition or “rest” in Rev 6:9 that does not have “death” as one of its definition. So those saints that die in good stead rest and are not dead.

    Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

    2 Cor 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

    Me: As long as we endure to the end of our lives and become more apt to follow the spirit instead of the flesh, we shall never die spiritually.

    #834170
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 815

    You:
    21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
    Notice TC at Christ’s COMING those that are his are raised from being dead.
    Please explain this, as it does not fit at all with what you are saying, what you are saying makes you sound delusional given these passages. Christ in verse 20 represented Jesus alone, Christ in verse 21 also represents just Jesus, we know this even further because it says in verse 23 AFTERWARDS they that are Christ’s at his coming.

    Me: This is a crock of baloney. If we follow your flawed logic, then “every man in his own order” would not be every man but only those that were dead in Christ and those alive when he comes. This leaves everyone else out. Rather “AFTERWARDS they that are Christ’s at his coming” refers to the rest of mankind, or the second great harvest. As I have shown you, and apparently you do not comprehend, “in his own order” refers to the time of death of every saint after Pentecost, and Pentecost for those saints dead before Pentecost. It also refers to those who will die at Christ’s appearance, for it is appointed once and for all for men to die once.

    #834171
     Truthcomber 
    Participant
    • Topics started 6
    • Total replies 815

    Hi Jodi,

     

    Here are the scriptures you have not reconciled with your paradigm.

     

    John 11:25 I am the resurrection…26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

    2 Cor 6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

    John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

    Me: This is not addressing the second coming of the Lord. This is addressing the Corinthians in the present tense.

    If you do not believe this, please interpret the verses below starting for 2 Cor 12:1 in light of your paradigm of the resurrection at the end time.

    Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

    Me: “today” is also defined as to this point or this time. It is definitely not at the second coming of Christ.

    2 Cor 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

    Me: It does seem that one can live out of his body. He does when he dies. He can enter into paradise which is the third heaven.

    2 Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: 7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:) 8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.

    Me: present means now when absent from the body, not at the second coming of Christ.

    Phil 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

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