Firstborn of/over all creation

This topic contains 3,675 replies, has 0 voices, and was last updated by  Jodi 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #830962
     Anthony 
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    Generally believe the simple word you need to back track  and see where you got all this stuff from. I can tell you this some believe In the 1 and 2 century they use to believe in adoption  meaning they belive the Father adopted the human son ,early Jewish Christian and gnostic 1and 2 century ad.

    #830963
     Anthony 
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    God bless check it out that might help you to continue what your saying. God bless, Gene.

    #830964
     Anthony 
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    You might be able to use it on me .just trying to help out. God bless.

    #830966
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Dig….well at least you admitted Jesus is not a God. Thats a start anyway. Now do you believe Jesus, came from the loins of King David? Yes or no, please.

    Peace and love to you and. …..gene

    #830967
     Jodi 
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    Hi LU,

    Nice to see you back,

    You said “A son like Jesus could not be made. He was eternal. Also, He was not made perfect, He always was perfect. Also, the day that those scriptures speak of when they say “today I have begotten you” is the resurrection from the grave day as the firstborn from the dead, not the baptism day.”

    A few major errors I see LU,

    Jesus is said to be begotten AGAIN in Acts, he was begotten at the river and when he was raised from the dead. Scripture DEFINES for what it means to be BORN of God, this is something of which I see that you deny and thus you do NOT APPLY this fact to other it other scriptures, and thus have major error in your understanding.

    We are in fact told that Jesus was made perfect and he was made perfect by what he suffered.

    Hebrews 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; 9 And being MADE perfect, he BECAME the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    We are also told that he WAS MADE a CHRIST and a MASTER, and that which he would be master over his father David’s Kingdom. 

    Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath MADE that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

    Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God SHALL GIVE unto him the throne of his father David:

    Let’s go back to this verse,

    9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    The begotten son that God GAVE was a PERFECTED 100% human being.

    Being MADE PERFECT as a human he is the author of eternal life

    The only begotten Son is likewise said to be the author

    1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is BORN of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest,

    Jesus was BORN of God at the river, and then he died and was BORN of God AGAIN

    5 Jesus answered,Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

    1 John 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

    It is just crazy to me how people deny these clear words.

    FACTS, Jesus was born by water and of the Spirit at the river Jordan. You must be born of God to remain without sin. A sinless 100% MAN was needed for our redemption. Not a pre-existing son. By ONE man, because of DISOBEDIENCE, sin entered and death to all, By ONE MAN, because of OBEDIENCE, righteousness came to all, and thus eternal life.

    Though Jesus was a Son without sin, God had a final test in order to PERFECT him and that was that even knowing his own fate of being mocked, beaten, and nailed to a cross to die, he submitted his HUMAN WILL of the flesh, to God’s Will and obeyed it unto his death (take this cup from me, not my will but YOURS). He was perfected through this suffering, suffering not only of his body but in dealing with the temptation of his own will, of which he overcame, staying faithful to God.

    Was not Jesus the ONLY MORTAL MAN who DID NOT SIN?

    Was it not a lamb, a MAN BORN of God’s Spirit, without spot or blemish that was needed for the sacrifice?

    Does not a MAN need to be BORN of GOD in order to remain without sin?

    Wouldn’t that make him according to the above scriptures the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON? 

    As I mentioned earlier the good news that we are to believe in, is faith in God by believing in the work that He can accomplish in a human being through His Spirit. The disciples of Jesus who personally were present with Jesus before and after he died are witnesses to this good news, the gospel. They witnessed God in him performing miracles, anyone who tried to make Jesus into the likeness of a pagan god was told that Jesus was flesh and any other belief about him was antichrist. When Jesus was raised from the dead, he proved to them that as God had promised David, his seed’s flesh would not decay but changed into incorruptible flesh. 

    If Jesus were in anyway not like us, besides being given God’s Spirit, the gospel is dead, Jesus is not a true example of the work that God can accomplish in a man, in a 100% human being.

    We are told that in EVERY WAY Jesus was just like us but without sin, and he was without sin because God’s seed (Spirit) was in Him keeping him holy, this is referred to as being BORN or BEGOTTEN by God.  When God said He gave His only begotten Son to DIE, that sacrifice had to be a 100% perfect human being, if he was anything else the sacrifice is WORTHLESS, once again believing that Jesus was anything more than a man is ANTICHRIST.

    I am sorry that you do not understand the passage that says God’s plan that existed before He made the world, that by ONE MAN sin came to all and thus by sin death came to all, and by ONE MAN righteousness came and thus life came to all.

    You believe that an eternal pre-existing son was sent, and how great is he to pose as a human brother and pretend to fear death. At least that is what it seems you believe.

    After Jesus was begotten by the Spirit at the Jordan, he goes out to speak citing the words of the prophet Elijah,  “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, 19 To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.”

    What part of the man Jesus was also a pre-existing son?

    Surely not his flesh

    Surely not his mind that began as a baby’s mind that grew in grace and knowledge because God’s Spirit was guiding him.

    When scripture says God GAVE his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON that whoever believes in him has eternal life, the SON that God GAVE was the PERFECTED MAN, shedding his human blood on the cross. 

    Romans 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

    ALL have sinned except for the MAN that was born of God’s Spirit without measure. A Son of God is DEFINED as being born of God’s Spirit. Being born of God’s Spirit keeps you from sin. Jesus did not come short of the glory of God, he was the image of God as the perfected man worthy of eternal life because no sin was found in him, he remained obedient until his death, HAVING BEEN PERFECTED. In the beginning God made MAN IN His IMAGE, in the beginning God promised eternal life, the AUTHOR of that eternal life is a human being born of God. He was promised to come of the seed of David. 

    12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: 14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

    The Son hear pertains to the MAN that shed his BLOOD, the identify of the Son is clearly given.

    15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

    A pre-existing son is nowhere said in scripture to be the image of the invisible God, that man that was MADE the CHRIST which means born of God’s Spirit to be a savior, is said to be the image of the invisible God.

    Genesis 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

    Romans 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man,

    1 Corinthians 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

    Titus 1:2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; 

    Acts 13:34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

    16 For through him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created through him, and for him:

    The him is the man raised from the dead made into the image of God as he is like God in that he is not a MORTAL MAN but a MAN that is incorruptible like God.

    17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. 19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; 20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

    He is always in reference to the man BORN of God’s Spirit that kept him without sin, so that by his PERFECT blood we are reconciled.

    The ONE who is the image and glory of God is the MAN that was MADE incorruptible, not a pre-existing son is the image of God. Jesus didn’t go back to the image he was before, he was MADE into the image he is now a MAN MADE PERFECT who was MADE incorruptible!!!

     

    #830969
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    Acts 13.32

    And we declare unto you the glad tidings, how the promise which was made unto the fathers,

    God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that He hath raised up

    Jesus again;

    as it is written in the second Psalm,

    ‘Thou art My Son, this day I have begotten thee’

    Ps 2.7

    ”I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said to me

    ’Thou art My Son; this day have I begotten thee’

     

    Acts 13 quotes the decree from God about His Son.

    It says he was raised again.

     

    It would be a mistake to assume, by logic, that it means he was raised twice or begotten twice.

     

    #830970
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Jodi,

    1 Peter details the value of suffering and temptation.

    1.6

    Wherein you rejoice, though now, for a season, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: that the trial of your faith, being more precious than gold that perisheth,though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ.

    2.14

    But if you suffer for righteousness’ sake, happy are ye.

    4.1

    Forasmuch then as Christ has suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind:for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

    4.12

    Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: but rejoice, inasmuch as you are partakersof Christ’s sufferings; that when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

    5.8

    Be sober, be vigilant,because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walkathon about, seeking whom he may devour: whom resist steadfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world. But the God of all grace, Who hath also called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

     

    The whole picture.

    #830972
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    More than a man?

    He was conceived in Mary.

    Born of woman, born under the law(Gal)

    You get confused by what scripture says about the Spirit that anointed him.

    #830973
     NickHassan 
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    Hi Anthony,

    You say Christ exchanged divinity for humanity.

    So the one anointed by God had been a god before he was conceived, born, baptised and anointed??

    Babylon mysteries.

     

    #830974
     GeneBalthrop 
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    Jodi….excelent job, you have indeed preached the Gospel of the Kingdom of God, to us, hold fast to what you have sis, your reward is great.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #830981
     Lightenup 
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    Real quick Jodi since I’m real tired and about to call it a night…

    An unblemished lamb is unblemished from birth, it doesn’t go from blemished to unblemished. Jesus didn’t go from imperfect to perfect. I have explained to you before that Jesus was “perfected” by His sufferings is meant to indicate a sense of completion of what He was sent to do. His sufferings perfected His mission. More later.

    #830982
     Lightenup 
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    Nick,

    You asked me if I attend a church. Yes I do. Most churches that I know about agree that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are interdependently our one God and at the same time, more than one person. The persons are equal in essence. One of the assistant pastors that interviewed me for membership said that he understands the Godhead as I do.

    I go to a Baptist church of about 2,500 members. It is a wonderful church. We have a ministry to the Arabic speaking community who are mainly Muslim. I teach them English as a second language, they are precious. One of the women has recently converted to Christianity and is boldly proclaiming Jesus in-spite of much opposition from the Muslim community. She was baptized a week ago. My church also has a ministry to Cambodians, and the Spanish speaking community. Two dwindling churches recently offered up their buildings and campus to my church. Also, my husband and I are greeters and pass out bulletins at the door. We are trying to learn people’s names. It is so fun to see the smiles of those people when we remember their names after a brief encounter.

    Goodnight Nick, and I hope you are having a nice Father’s Day.

    #830983
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU,

    Imagine if you believed in the one true God and His son Jesus Christ.

    You would be able to reach so many people with the truth.

    #830984
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU,

    Indeed the child conceived in Mary and born of her in Bethlehem never sinned.

    An unblemished lamb sacrificed for our salvation.

    Perfected by his suffering.

    #830985
     NickHassan 
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    Hi LU,

    Yes people are falling over themselves to get involved in the false church.

    The whole world is under the power of the evil one.

    The Body of Christ is smaller.

    #830989
     GeneBalthrop 
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    LU….Go reread what Jodi, wrote with prayer and fasting, and perhaps, God will open your eyes to the true gospel of our lord Jesus, the Christo’s, of GOD the Father.

    If you don’t see Jesus as a flesh and blood human being, who came from the loins of king David, and was “perfected” by God the Father, by the things he suffered and the anointing spirit given him at the Jordan river baptizm. Then you simply do not see the “real” JESUS and because you reject him comming into his “existence” in flesh and blood exactly as we have, and are worshiping him as a GOD, You truly are an Antichrist, rather you believe or not.

    For unto us (true believers) there is “ONE” GOD AND “ONE” MEDERATOR BETWEEN GOD and MAN, “THE MAN” Jesus Christ, or better, “Jesus the ANOINTED ONE”

    Remember what Jesus said, many will come in my name and “decieve” many. Yes the great deception is all about who Jesus is, and the “many” are the that fell away, early on in christanity. 2 ths 2, preaching Jesus as a GOD and worshiping him as such is the “lie”, the “many” believe and are going in threat of destruction.

    LU, you have been handed a string of “LIE”, in the past but you can always repent.

    Peace and love to you and yours. …….gene

    #830993
     Anthony 
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    Gee Gene is  that all you can say go read Jodi’s. Wow. He (Jesus) is coming to us by His Holy Spirit today.  Let us recognize Him now; then we shall recognize Him when He comes in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory God bless.Anthony

    #830994
     Anthony 
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    Gee Gene you call everyone Antichrist what up with that everyone that doesn’t agree with you and your leader i think you need to go back and see what Jodi wrote . God bless.  where’s Nick off speaking in tongues i hope he not sending curse’s my way. Praying for me do you understand what I’m saying Gene if not talk to your leader l

    #830996
     Anthony 
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    Gene ​”The Lord is soon to come. We want that complete and perfect understanding which the Lord alone can give.

    It is not safe to catch the spirit from another. We want the Holy Spirit, which is Jesus Christ. If we commune with God, we shall have strength and grace and efficiency.”

    #830998
     Anthony 
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    Gene

    “The reasons why the churches are weak and sickly and ready to die is that the enemy has brought influences of a discouraging nature to bear upon trembling souls. He has sought to shut Jesus from their view as the Comforter, as one who reproves, who warns, who admonishes them, saying, ‘This is the way, walk ye in it.'”  God bless Gene

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