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Is Jesus the Logos?

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The Word of God

We know that God created all things through his Word.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.  He was with God in the beginning.  Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

1 John 1:1-3
That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched—this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us. We proclaim to you what we have seen and heard, so that you also may have fellowship with us. And our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son, Jesus Christ.

However, it is also written that God made all things through his son.

Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe.

Colossians 1:15-17
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities– all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet there is for us only one God, the Father, who is the Creator of all things and for whom we live; and there is only one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

There seems to be a direct link with the Word and the Son in the above verses as both are said to be the agent by which God created all things. Or did God make all things through his Word as well as the Son? If there was a time when there was only God and his Word as we read in John 1:1-3, then know that Jesus is not only described in similar terms as that Word but that he is actually called the Word of God too.

Revelation 19:13
He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God.

It seems that with God making all things through his Word, through his Son, and even through Wisdom, this either means that these are all different agents, thus God invoked a number of things to create the Universe, or they are one and the same, i.e., the Word is Jesus Christ before he was called Jesus. Christ.

We are told that the Word became flesh and that is an obvious reference in a book devoted to Jesus Christ in a passage of scripture about the origins of Jesus Christ. So this either means that Jesus was newly created from the Word as some teach or that he is the Word but took on another form, that of flesh when he came to earth. The latter seems the more likely explanation given that God created all things through the Son and the Word and that Jesus Christ is even called the ‘Word of God’.

Even if there were no direct references for Jesus being the Word of God, there would still be a whole raft of other verses to contend with. These verses speak of Jesus existence before he came as a man (outside of mentioning the Word).

  • “Before Abraham, I am”, – John 8:58
  • “to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen.” – Jude 1:25,
  • He is before all things, and in him all things hold together –  Colossians 1:17.
  • etc.

Finally, we are told to not trust in the flesh, so if Jesus is only flesh, then should we trust him? After all we are explicitly taught that we are cursed if we trust in man. When we trust Jesus, are we trusting in man or the Word of God?

Jeremiah 17:5
This is what the LORD says: “Cursed is the one who trusts in man, who draws strength from mere flesh and whose heart turns away from the LORD.

For more on this subject try this writing:
Did Jesus pre-exist before his birth on earth

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  • May 5, 2024 at 4:29 am#946430
    Berean
    Participant

    @ Jodi

    You

    Yes, scripture tells us that man was created in God’s image, what does that mean though? How was man created in the image of God?

    me

    scriptures

    And God said, Let us 👈make man👉 in our image👈, after our likeness:👈

    and

    let them have DOMINION over👉 the fish of the sea, and over👉 the fowl of the air, and 👉over the cattle, and 👉over all the earth, and 👉over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    👉dominion

    7287

    radah

    a primitive root; to tread down, i.e. subjugate; specifically, to crumble off:–(come to, make to) have dominion, prevail against, reign, (bear, make to) rule,(-r, over), take.

    Me

    Is there not in the meaning of having dominion over the animal world for Adam an element of the fact that he was created in the image of God and in his likeness?

    God would dominate his creation, Yes but through Adam...
    Isn’t there an aspect of the “image of God”?

    Thank you for responding on this specific point.

    🙏

    May 6, 2024 at 4:51 am#946431
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    YOU:

    Is there not in the meaning of having dominion over the animal world for Adam an element of the fact that he was created in the image of God and in his likeness?

    God would dominate his creation, Yes but through Adam…
    Isn’t there an aspect of the “image of God”?

    ME: 

    I asked you what does it mean that man was created in the image of God, what image does man have that God has and it seems your answer is his dominion over the earth.

    God was never going to dominate/rule anything through the first Adam, God knew full well that Adam and Eve were going to sin and that their punishment would affect all of mankind moving forward.

    Before the world even began God knew that there would be One Man whom God would be mindful of. There would be one man He would anoint with His Spirit and call to righteousness to where he would be obedient unto his death and God would raise him from the dead, give him the Promised Spirit and exalt Him to His right hand. We wait for the return of this Son of Man coming in the glory of our heavenly Father, where our heavenly Father will rule all the earth through him because God is in him.

    I would say that it is because of the image of God to which man was made, as to why man would ALSO have dominion over all the earth. 

    26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: AND let THEM have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    So what is the image of God to which man was made in likeness of, to where man would also have the ability to have dominion over all the earth?

    Let’s first acknowledge the fact that of all the living souls that God had created, ONLY man was said to have been made in God’s image. How is man unlike all the other living souls that God had created but is like God… and does that give reason to then why it is that man would be given the dominion?

    Man, unlike all other living souls, has an imagination and he likes to use it to create and invent things and to this fact, we surely were created in the image of God. We can readily see God’s amazing imagination and all that He desired to create.

    The context of man being made in the image of God is in comparison between mankind and all other living creatures to that of mankind and God.

    The brain of humans has an imagination, God has an imagination. Further, it is the imagination that separates us from all other living creatures in more ways than one, with it, unlike all other creatures, it is what makes us capable of being able to come to know good and evil and thus come to know God and believe in God. We have the ability to come to know that God is the source, His Spirit working in us is the source, the source of wisdom, understanding, knowledge, truth, love, kindness, patience, etc..

    Berean, think about this for a moment,

    We are given from Ezekiel that the dead shall live where God is going to give man a new heart of flesh and put His Spirit in man and cause man to walk in all of God’s ways.

    What else?! When the Son of Man returns in our Father’s glory, having God’s Spirit aboding in him, all the earth will become full of peace, not just humans, but all living creatures. Isaiah tells us that at that time the animals will be made no longer wild, they too will be changed, the lion is going to lay down with the lamb, not devour the lamb and the infant can play by the serpents hole with no fear by the child’s mother.

    God’s future kingdom is one of peace, where mankind has dominion overall the earth where with a spiritual mind he uses his imagination to create and invent that which is pleasing to God and pleasing to all living. With that imagination there will be new songs poring out to praise YHVH.

    With YHVH nothing is impossible, He can create a kind of living creature that can be made in His image, a living being that has a righteous imagination filled with His Spirit. Though a thousand years is like unto a day to YHVH, regardless, our perfecting takes time, “to every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven”.

    Jesus is the firstborn overall creation, this is said in the context of Paul speaking directly of the New heaven and earth. He is the Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory, that glory is him in God’s image, that glory is God’s Spirit in him, making him born of God, born of righteousness whereby such he is the man ordained to judge the world. Berean, God made HUMANS in His own image. Jesus is a HUMAN existing in God’s image and it is by his righteous imagination that he is able to praise God.

    May 6, 2024 at 6:27 am#946432
    Berean
    Participant

     


    @Jodi

    You

    I asked you what does it mean that man was created in the image of God, what image does man have that God has and it seems your answer is his dominion over the earth.

    Me

    Before sin Adam WAS the king of the earth, the shepherd of paradise.

     

    👇

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
    [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    [28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and👉 replenish the earth, and👉 subdue it: and👉 have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

     

    This IS juste ONE thing OF “in the “image of GOD ” His  caracter .

    I’m not inventing anything.

     

     

     

    May 8, 2024 at 2:55 am#946433
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    I don’t see any scripture that says that Adam was appointed a king to rule over all of mankind and all living creatures upon the earth, before or after the fall.

    The scriptures speaks of man, male and female humans that were to multiply and THEY would have dominion over the fish, over the birds and over all living creatures on earth.

    Berean, the text is not written that the image is being defined as dominion, the word “and”, tells you this. Of course it is true to say that both God and man have a dominion, but it is because of another likeness that comes first that then gives way to each’s dominion.

    What by our very nature would give us dominion over all other living creatures? Our cognitive abilities obviously! What does our brain have that we know God has? An imagination! Without our imagination there is no capacity to come to know good and evil, there is no capacity for us to invent our own ways, or come to desire God’s ways. We would not have the capacity for God’s Spirit to do it’s work in our spirit to bear fruit to that which is good, that which is righteous and that which is true. God’s Word from the beginning was a PROMISE to inherit His Spirit, to be born of His Spirit, “to every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven”.

    The imagination makes man in an image to that of God, He has one too. AND it is also because of our imagination that God is able to make us into the image of Him to which was His purpose before we were even created, an image of all goodness and righteousness filled with truth.

    But the beginning state of every human is ignorance and coupled with an imagination it creates poison like that of a serpent, it can only produce lies. The superstitions that man has come up with throughout history are all prime examples. There was a tribe in Africa or maybe it was somewhere in South America, anyway, by the imagination of men in this tribe they came to believe that babies whose bottom teeth came in before top teeth were a curse, so each baby born in the tribe whose bottom teeth came in first they drowned in the river.  Their imaginations, their ignorance, caused them to do that which was evil thinking it was good.

    This is exactly why we are given the below passages for without God this is who we are,

    Genesis 6:5 The Lord saw that the wickedness of humankind was great in the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of their hearts was only evil continually.

    Genesis 8: 21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savour; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake; for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

    Jeremiah 9:14 But have walked after the imagination of their own heart, and after Baalim, which their fathers taught them

    Jeremiah 23:26 How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Indeed they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart,

    Ezekiel 13:3 Thus says the Lord God: “Woe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing?

    Hosea 10:13 You have plowed wickedness; You have reaped iniquity. You have eaten the fruit of lies, Because you trusted in your own way

    Isaiah 65:2 I have stretched out My hands all day long to a rebellious people, Who walk in a way that is not good, According to their own thoughts

    Proverbs 18:2 A fool has no delight in understanding, But in expressing his own heart.

    Proverbs 28:26 He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, But whoever walks wisely will be delivered.

    There are many more passages that speak to the above and below speak to the fact that we DECIVE OURSELVES.

    Jer 17:9 The heart is more deceitful than all else
    And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

    Isaiah 47:10 You felt secure in your wickedness and said, ‘No one sees me,’ Your wisdom and your knowledge, they have deluded you; For you have said in your heart, ‘I am, and there is no one besides me.

    1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you thinks that he is wise in this age, he must become foolish, so that he may become wise.

    Gal 6:3 For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself.

    James 1:26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless.

    There are even more scriptures speaking to how it is man that deceives himself.

    Here is a truth for you Berean, man is called a serpent when he lies. the poison of a serpent in scripture is directly equated to the lies of man and the lies of man come from his own carnal imagination. Paul tells us directly that “to be carnally minded is death”.  The serpent in Genesis 3 is used appropriately to symbolize the carnal mind of man, it lies bringing forth sin which brought forth the punishment of mortality and death.  The human carnal mind, without God, according to scripture, it is only able to produce lies, create wickedness.

    But getting back to my initial point, Adam and Eve and no other mortal man was called to righteousness except Jesus of Nazareth, he was the only begotten of the Spirit, filled with the Spirit not by measure and those who believe know that he is the Son of Man that was exalted to God’s right hand being settled into God’s house for eternity.

    Jesus is proof that God’s Spirit does bear the fruit in man to all goodness righteousness and truth and where there is righteousness there is eternal life, why we are told that Jesus is a firstborn of many brethren.

    The Spirit of God in Jesus’s spirit does bear witness that he is a Son of God, born of God, born of righteousness. Jesus has an imagination that through the Spirit is caused to walk in all of God’s ways. In this we can readily see why God is able to justify us through the anointed man Jesus, because God knows that He can call us to righteousness as well. This is why His Promise before the world began was the giving of His Spirit. God is able to forgive our sins through Jesus because He knows that all others did not receive the Spirit as Jesus did and it is by the Spirit we are saved, Jesus could do nothing of himself.  We are forgiven in CHRIST -the anointing of the Spirit not by measure. No other mortal man received it but Jesus and then he received it according to PROMISE when he was raised from the dead, this is why God is able to forgive us our sins and raise us from the dead. The end is us being SAVED through the Son of Man returning in our Father’s glory TO GIVE us the PROMISED SPIRIT, God’s WORD from the beginning.

    May 8, 2024 at 7:59 am#946434
    Berean
    Participant

     


    @Jodi

    You

    I don’t see any scripture that says that Adam was appointed a king to rule over all of mankind and all living creatures upon the earth, before or after the fall.

    Me

    And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:👉 and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.👈
    [27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
    [28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them,👉 Be fruitful, and 👉multiply, and👉 replenish the earth, and 👉subdue it: and have dominion 👉over the fish of the sea, and👉 over the fowl of the air, and 👉over everything living thing that moves upon the earth.

    replenish the earth, and 👉subdue it:

    What does subdue it mean to you?

    May 8, 2024 at 1:28 pm#946435
    Jodi
    Participant

    Hi Berean,

    Subdue- does not equate to God having appointed the man Adam as a king over others and over all creatures great and small, so there’s that!

    Scripture does not say that the man Adam was appointed as a king, which is what you said and you also stated you weren’t inventing anything. You cannot provide the scripture that speaks to Adam being a KING because it does not exist and thus you have certainly invented something! 

    The scriptures you keep providing are speaking to that of mankind, it says “THEM” as in humans would subdue the earth and have dominion over the fish, over the birds and all other living creatures. 

    The only human appointed to be a king overall the earth is Jesus Christ, which God planned before the world even began.

    Berean, I don’t even care about this actually, what I care about is how does mankind exist in God’s image? and don’t tell me it’s mankind’s dominion, scripture gives us that as an “AND” not as a because. 

    May 17, 2024 at 5:06 am#946450
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @proclaimer and all,

    Updated info about the workers of iniquity aka freemasons.
    They are trying to move us to commit the blasphemy against the Spirit of the Father and the Son.
    Because the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
    (Mark 3:28-30)
    The solution is simple just accept the whole Bible.

    May 20, 2024 at 10:47 am#946455
    carmel
    Participant

     

    Hi DT and all,

    I did discuss the case of Isaac’s birth well back on this thread with Jodi once.

    FINALLY THANKS TO THE HOLY SPIRIT I AM BACK TO ANSWER YOUR SPIRITUALLY DEAD POST IN GENERAL.

    TODAY IS THE FEAST OF THE PENTECOST AND I AM MORE THAN CONVINCED THAT THE HOLY SPIRIT FURNISHED ME WITH MORE LIGHT, AND I AM IN THE POSITON TO SHARE WITH YOU ALL, MORE HIDDEN DETAILS ASSOCIATED WITH ONE OF THE MOST MYSTERIOUS AND MIRACULOUS BIRTH OF THE OT; THE BIRTH OF ISAAC OF THE HOLY GHOST. THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW ETERNAL COVENANT!

    FIRST, A BIRTH THAT FOR SURE FORESHADOWS THE UNIQUE BIRTH IN HUMAN HISTORY OF OUR LORD JESUS,

    IN MANY WAYS,

    SECOND, IT ALSO SHEDS LIGHT ON A SIMILAR BIRTH, PRECISELY  ALSO  A BEGINNING, THE FIRST-EVER ENIGMATIC BIRTH IN HUMAN HISTORY; THE BIRTH OF ABEL, THE GOOD,

    THE FIRST-EVER FIRSTBORN SOUL,

    BORN OF THE HOLY GHOST THROUGH ADAM, AND NOTHING ACCREDITED TO SEX AND FLESH AND BLOOD. PRECISELY MARRED WITH THE BIRTH OF CAIN, THE EVIL, THE FIRST-EVER FIRSTBORN CHILD CURSED OF THE FLESH AND BLOOD ACCREDITED ENTIRELY TO SEX!!  ACCORDING TO SATAN, THE LIAR, THROUGH HIS EVIL SPIRIT, OF THE SATANICALLY  CONTAMINATED WOMAN/MOTHER EVE!

    JUST REFLECT:

    CAIN AND ABEL WERE BOTH FIRST-BORN SONS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE ROLES.

    ISHMAEL AND ISAAC ALSO WERE BOTH FIRST-BORN SONS IN THEIR RESPECTIVE ROLES.

    CAIN/SATAN KILLED ABEL!!

    THE FLESH KILLED THE SOUL.

    WE DO JUST THAT AS WELL! WE PLEASE THE FLESH AND IGNORE/KILL OUR SOUL!! 

    ABRAHAM ALMOST KILLED ISAAC!!

    THE FLESH AGAIN ALMOST KILLED ISAAC THE SOUL!

    DID SATAN PROTEST WHO IN TRUTH THE FIRST-BORN SON WAS BETWEEN ISAAC AND ISHMAEL?

    ONLY ISAAC WAS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN/UNIQUE/ONE-OF-A-KIND FIRST-BORN SON.

    IN WHAT WAY UNIQUE?

    Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, MOCKING. 

    MOCKING???  AT WHAT???

    AT ISAAC! NO???

    THAT’S ENOUGH OF THAT FOR NOW!

    NOW TO YOUR POST, DT:

    You: Nowhere is it written Abraham had ED; created in your mind.

    Me: THE ABOVE IS A CLEAR AND TRUE EXAMPLE OF HOW YOU, DT, INDIRECTLY NOT ONLY CONTRADICT YOUR STATEMENTS BUT ALSO IN THE SAME INSTANT WITH YOUR OWN WORDS  INDICATE WHAT THE TRUE MESSAGE OUGHT TO BE, UNFORTUNATELY, A MESSAGE  THAT YOU ARE NEVER  IN THE POSITION NOT JUST TO DISCERN ITS TRUTH, BUT AS I ALREADY MADE CLEAR,

    NOT EVEN IN THE POSITION TO SMELL IT, NEVER MIND ACCEPT IT. THUS:

    WHY DIDN’T YOU PRODUCE THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS CLEARLY THAT ABRAHAM HAD SEX WITH SARAH IN ISAAC’S CONCEPTION? OBVIOUSLY,

    FOR THE SIMPLE REASON THAT IT DOES NOT EXIST AT ALL.

    NOW TO THE TRUTH:

    You: Nowhere is it written Abraham had ED; created in your mind.

    ME: Nowhere is it written Abraham had sex with Sarah

    CREATED IN YOUR MIND.

    NOW READ HEREUNDER:

    Genesis 18:11Now they were BOTH OLD, and far advanced in years,

    and IT HAD CEASED to be with Sara AFTER THE MANNER OF WOMEN.

    WHEN READING JUST THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE IT SHOWS, THAT THERE’S MORE WRITTEN, THOUGH HIDDEN, THAT SPECIFICALLY INDICATES THAT GOD’S WILL AFTER ISHMAEL’S CONCEPTION WAS, THAT ABRAM MUST HAVE ED!

    THE FACT THAT NOWHERE SPECIFICALLY IS IT WRITTEN THAT ABRAHAM HAD NOT.

    WHY YOU MAY ASK, ABRAM MUST HAVE HAD ED BEFORE ISAAC’S CONCEPTION???

    LET’S START WITH PAUL’S DECLARATION, ACCORDING TO YOU A LIAR,

    Romans 4:19And being not weak in faith,

    he considered not his own body NOW DEAD,

    when he was about a HUNDRED years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:

    HOW COME AND IN WHAT WAY ABRAM CONSIDERED HIS BODY DEAD???

    DESPITE BEING A HUNDRED YEARS OLD, CONSIDERING JUST HIS FATHER TERAH WHO WAS 130 WELL OVER THAT AGE, HE STILL ENJOYED SEX WHEN HE CONCEIVED ABRAM.  

    IT STANDS TO REASON THEN,  THAT NOT ONLY ABRAM HAD ED.

    BUT FOR SURE THE ONLY WAY FOR HIM TO HAVE HIS UNIQUE BEGOTTEN ONE-OF-A-KIND  SON WAS BY GOD’S PROVIDENCE THROUGHOUT! NO???

    You: Still no evidence, except in your mind, that God was the one who impregnated Sarah.

    Me: YOU KEEP ON REPEATING THE SAME USELESS CONNOTATIONS, SO  AGAIN, I REPEAT WHAT I SAID ABOVE;

    THUS, EXCEPT FOR YOUR MIND, SPIRITUALLY DEAD, WITH EVERY RESPECT,

    NO EVIDENCE THAT SAYS ABRAM WAS THE ONE WHO IMPREGNATED SARAH. WHICH INDIRECTLY PROVES, THAT ABRAM WAS SOMEHOW USELESS REGARDING SEX.

    HE HAD ED!!!

    More scriptures:

    Genesis17:16….. of her I WILL GIVE YOU A SON,…

    You: The words written in the pages of the bible are to be understood as they are written…

    THERE YOU ARE, YOU’VE GOT IT WRITTEN IN BLACK ON WHITE NOW!

    NEVERTHELESS; I BET, AS I SAID ABOVE ALSO, THAT YOU ARE NOT ONLY NOT READY TO ACCEPT IT, BUT NOT EVEN ABLE TO SMELL IT!

    READ AGAIN AND DON’T IGNORE

    THE SPIRITUAL REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS OF GOD, THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT,

    THE TRUTH, NOTHING ASSOCIATED WITH SEX, AND FLESH AND BLOOD,

    ACCREDITED TO THE BIRTH OF

    THE SOUL OF ISAAC, BORN OF THE HOLY GHOST.

    THE BEGINNING OF THE NEW ETERNAL COVENANT

    DIRECTLY AND ENTIRELY FROM THE ONLY TRUE GOD!

    LET’S READ AGAIN:

    Genesis17:16….. of her

     I WILL GIVE YOU A SON,…

    IF ACCORDING TO YOU, GOD INTENDED TO HAVE ISAAC BORN IN ANY WAY THROUGH SEX  OR WITH SOMETHING TO DO WITH THIS MORTAL WORLD, CONSIDERING,  HE, CREATOR OF ALL, IS LIFE, AND ETERNAL, IT’S NOT ONLY PURE NONSENSE BUT ALSO IT WOULD HAVE MADE GOD FOR SURE SUBJECT TO SATAN, AGAIN PURE NONSENSE SINCE  THE WORLD AND ITS ENTIRE PROCESS WAS CURSED, WHILE GOD AIMED TO ESTABLISH HIS GENUINE SPIRITUAL PLAN FOR REDEMPTION.  I REPEAT AND MAKE IT CLEAR; NOTHING OF  THIS CORRUPTED WORLD, HENCE,  STILL TO BE REDEEMED,  PRECISELY BY THE ETERNAL COVENANT IN ISAAC ATTRIBUTED TO GOD’S ONLY BEGOTTEN SON JESUS,

     “THE FATHER’S WORD” MADE FLESH, THE SON OF MAN, PRECISELY PREEXISTED  AS A SPIRIT, WHO CONCEIVED ISAAC, AND MAINTAINED HIS PRIMACY, AS THE BEGINNING OF THE ETERNAL COVENANT EMBODIED IN ISACC! I REPEAT “THE WORD” MADE FLESH.

    THUS, GIVEN ALL THE ABOVE, IF GOD INTENDED TO MAKE THE LEAST USE OF THIS WORLD IN ANY WAY, GOD COULD HAVE SAID AT LEAST SOMETHING LIKE THIS:

    AND I WILL BLESS HER, AND

    “SHE WILL GIVE BIRTH TO YOUR SON”,

    THE ABOVE WOULD HAVE BEEN MORE APPROPRIATE, NO?

    NOW LET’S READ AGAIN WHAT GOD, FOR SURE SPIRITUALLY INTENDED AND GENUINELY DIVINE SAID AND MEANT:

    “OF HER”  

    BY WHAT PROCESS “OF HER” MAY I ASK, SINCE GOD AND ONLY GOD CREATOR OF ALL IS THE PROVIDER!

    WELL CLEAR HEREUNDER???

    “I WILL GIVE YOU A SON”!!!

    WHERE IS ABRAHAM MENTIONED, ACCORDING TO YOU FERTILE???

    IN THE ABOVE, GOD ON HIS OWN WAS THE FATHER/MOTHER OF ISAAC!!!

    “I WILL GIVE YOU A SON” EVIDENTLY REVEALS TO ABRAHAM THAT PHYSICALLY AND SEXUALLY,

    HE AND EVEN HIS WIFE IN A WAY WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH ISAAC’S CONCEPTION AND BIRTH AT ALL.

    THUS, TO MAKE THINGS CLEAR AND GIVE IT TO YOU WITH A SPOON, THE ABOVE

     “OF HER”

    HAS NOTHING TO DO NEITHER WITH SARAH BEING PREGNANT IN ANY WAY AND BY ANY MAN, NOR WITH HER GIVING BIRTH IN THE SAME WAY WOMEN OF THIS SATANIC MORTAL WORLD DO,

    AND ALSO WITHOUT PAIN, BLOOD, AND GOD KNOWS WHAT.

    Now to:

    Genesis 18:10 And he said, I will certainly return unto thee according to the time of life; and, lo, Sarah thy wife shall have a son. And Sarah heard it in the tent door, which was behind him.

    …..SHALL HAVE A SON????

    DT, MEN TODAY ARE IN THE POSITION TO ALSO HAVE SONS,

    WITHOUT HAVING WOMEN!!!

    ATTENTION PLEASE, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE IT OR NOT IT’S YOUR PIGEON!!!

    GOD, TO MAKE SARAH MOTHER OF NATIONS IN ISAAC,

    MADE USE OF HER USELESS MORTAL BODY AS MUCH AS THE RAYS OF THE SUN MAKE USE OF A WINDOW PANE AND ENTER INTO A ROOM!!!

    NOW READ HEREUNDER:

    Isaiah54:1 GIVE praise, O thou barren, that bearest not: sing forth praise, and make a joyful noise,

     thou that DIDST NOT TRAVAIL with child:

    for many are the children of the DESOLATE,

     more than of her that hath a husband, saith the Lord.

    DID YOU GET THAT? I’M AFRAID NOT!!!

    IT CLEARLY AND EQUIVALENTLY SAYS THAT

    SARAH NEVER HAD A HUSBAND ASSOCIATED PHYSICALLY WITH ISAAC’S BIRTH!

    AS HE HAD ED!!!

     

    MORE TO COME!

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    May 26, 2024 at 6:14 am#946461
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    @all

    Psalm 89
    Maschil of Ethan the Ezrahite.

    1
    I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever:
    with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.
    2
    For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever:
    thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

    3
    I have made a covenant with my chosen,
    I have sworn unto David my servant,
    4
    thy seed will I establish for ever,
    and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

    5
    And the heavens shall praise thy wonders, O Lord:
    thy faithfulness also in the congregation of the saints.
    6
    For who in the heaven can be compared unto the Lord?
    who among the sons of the mighty can be likened unto the Lord?
    7
    God is greatly to be feared in the assembly of the saints,
    and to be had in reverence of all them that are about him.
    8
    O Lord God of hosts, who is a strong Lord like unto thee?
    or to thy faithfulness round about thee?
    9
    Thou rulest the raging of the sea:
    when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.
    10
    Thou hast broken Rahab in pieces, as one that is slain;
    thou hast scattered thine enemies with thy strong arm.
    11
    The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine:
    as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
    12
    The north and the south thou hast created them:
    Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
    13
    Thou hast a mighty arm:
    strong is thy hand, and high is thy right hand.
    14
    Justice and judgment are the habitation of thy throne:
    mercy and truth shall go before thy face.

    15
    Blessed is the people that know the joyful sound:
    they shall walk, O Lord, in the light of thy countenance.
    16
    In thy name shall they rejoice all the day:
    and in thy righteousness shall they be exalted.
    17
    For thou art the glory of their strength:
    and in thy favour our horn shall be exalted.
    18
    For the Lord is our defence;
    and the Holy One of Israel is our king.

    19
    Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one,
    and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty;
    I have exalted one chosen out of the people.
    20
    I have found David my servant;
    with my holy oil have I anointed him:
    21
    with whom my hand shall be established:
    mine arm also shall strengthen him.
    22
    The enemy shall not exact upon him;
    nor the son of wickedness afflict him.
    23
    And I will beat down his foes before his face,
    and plague them that hate him.
    24
    But my faithfulness and my mercy shall be with him:
    and in my name shall his horn be exalted.
    25
    I will set his hand also in the sea,
    and his right hand in the rivers.
    26
    He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father,
    my God, and the rock of my salvation.
    27
    Also I will make him my firstborn,
    higher than the kings of the earth.
    28
    My mercy will I keep for him for evermore,
    and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
    29
    His seed also will I make to endure for ever,
    and his throne as the days of heaven.

    30
    If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
    31
    if they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
    32
    then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
    33
    Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him,
    nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.
    34
    My covenant will I not break,
    nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
    35
    Once have I sworn by my holiness
    that I will not lie unto David.
    36
    His seed shall endure for ever,
    and his throne as the sun before me.
    37
    It shall be established for ever as the moon,
    and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

    38
    But thou hast cast off and abhorred,
    thou hast been wroth with thine anointed.
    39
    Thou hast made void the covenant of thy servant:
    thou hast profaned his crown by casting it to the ground.
    40
    Thou hast broken down all his hedges;
    thou hast brought his strong holds to ruin.
    41
    All that pass by the way spoil him:
    he is a reproach to his neighbours.
    42
    Thou hast set up the right hand of his adversaries;
    thou hast made all his enemies to rejoice.
    43
    Thou hast also turned the edge of his sword,
    and hast not made him to stand in the battle.
    44
    Thou hast made his glory to cease,
    and cast his throne down to the ground.
    45
    The days of his youth hast thou shortened:
    thou hast covered him with shame. Selah.

    46
    How long, Lord? wilt thou hide thyself for ever?
    shall thy wrath burn like fire?
    47
    Remember how short my time is:
    wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?
    48
    What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death?
    shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah.
    49
    Lord, where are thy former lovingkindnesses,
    which thou swarest unto David in thy truth?
    50
    Remember, Lord, the reproach of thy servants;
    how I do bear in my bosom the reproach of all the mighty people;
    51
    wherewith thine enemies have reproached, O Lord;
    wherewith they have reproached the footsteps of thine anointed.

    52
    Blessed be the Lord for evermore.
    Amen, and Amen.

    May 27, 2024 at 1:30 am#946472
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Danny, AMEN to that post brother.

    peace and love to you and yours………gene

    May 27, 2024 at 5:33 am#946474
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Gene and all, I did copy and paste that Psalm but instead of LORD it incorrectly showed Lord.

    May 27, 2024 at 6:00 am#946475
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    There was an error again. This is frustrating.

    May 28, 2024 at 2:20 am#946476
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Danny……yes it is speaking of the LORD,  our,  and Jesus’, GOD.

    Peace and love to you and your Danny………gene

    May 28, 2024 at 5:52 am#946478
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Carmel,

    So the “spirit” gave you this understanding and if the “spirit” gave you this understanding, will others be in agreement with you? If no one agrees with what you wrote, it would make what you said a product of your own mind and not of the spirit.

    It’s fascinating most here believe they are “filled with the ‘Holy Spirit’” in some capacity, yet for some reason this “spirit” isn’t in agreement with itself; this “spirit” doesn’t give the same “truth” to each one it “inhabits.” If it’s the Spirit of God giving “truth”, why are there different understandings? Shouldn’t all understanding be the same? Is this “spirit” suffering from a multiple personality disorder or is the real reason for so many different understandings the influence of different religious belief systems who’s ideas clash?

    Somehow we have veered off onto God impregnating mortal women, old man issues, and have left the original question behind concerning Jesus being the messiah. The following is what the Messiah is to do when he arrives:

    He must be Jewish

    “…you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you.” (Deuteronomy 17:15)

     

    He must be a member of the tribe of Judah

    “The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet…” (Genesis 49:10)

    To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.

     

    He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son

    “And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever…” (2 Samuel 7:12 – 13)

    The genealogy of Joseph states he is not the biological father of Jesus. The other genealogy is through Nathan and not Solomon.

     

    He must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel

    “And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.” (Isaiah 11:12)

    Are all Jews living in Israel? Have all Jews EVER lived in Israel since the time of Jesus? What does christianity teach, that failure to believe in the Jesus condemns you to hell.

     

    He must rebuild the Temple in Jerusalem

    “…and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..” (Ezekiel 37:26 – 27)

    At last check, there is NO Temple in Jerusalem. And worse, shortly after Jesus died the Temple was destroyed! Just the opposite of this prophecy!

     

    He will rule at a time of world-wide peace

    “…they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore.” (Micah 4:3)

    Are we living in a state of complete world peace? Has there ever been peace since the time of Jesus? There definitely wasn’t peace in the first century.

     

    He will rule at a time when the Jewish people will observe G-d’s commandments

    “My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes.” (Ezekiel 37:24)

    The Torah is the Jewish guide to life, and its commandments are the ones referred to here. Do all Jews observe all the commandments? Christianity, in fact, often discourages observance of the commandments in Torah, in complete opposition to this prophecy.

     

    He will rule at a time when all people will come to acknowledge and serve one G-d

    “And it shall come to pass that from one new moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, says the L-rd” (Isaiah 66:23)

    Carmel, with all the “spiritual wisdom” you possess, what of this “list” did Jesus accomplish when he was here? It looks as though he only “accomplished” one thing and that’s being Jewish. Since Jesus didn’t anything else God said the Messiah was to do, how is Jesus the messiah?

    May 29, 2024 at 2:01 am#946480
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DT…….Your still setting things to your time frame, but not God’s.  Where doe any scripture say all that must happen at the same time period.  I haven’t found any set time period yet have you, if so then show it to us.

    But the time of the Messiah’s is set in scriptures, a time when all the Jews knew, as described in the books of Daniel the prophet. Which you completely ignore.  How and why do you skirt around those prophesies?. Your ignorance of the time period is just another stumbling block of yours, that you completely ignore, why is that?

    peace and love to you and yours……..gene

     

     

     

    May 29, 2024 at 6:15 am#946481
    DesireTruth
    Participant

    @Gene,

    You: Your still setting things to your time frame, but not God’s.

    Me: Site the passage where God said the Messiah was to come and not do or be anything HE said the Messiah was to do or be; BUT, will do and be a second time. Didn’t find that passage either; why, because it doesn’t exist. I haven’t place anything in a “time frame”; I simple state when the true Messiah comes this is what God said he will be and what he will do.

    Christianity has actually placed a time line on the messiah, he’s suppose to return in 2000 years; get prepare, he’s coming like a thief in the night. The Seventh Day Adventist put a date on Jesus’ return and the day came and went…”The Great Disappointment.” How many countless faiths keep speaking of Jesus returning soon? Jesus tells the disciples of events that were to happen in their generation and somehow, because they didn’t happen, it was “pushed into the future.” In Rev 1:1 it says, “…to show to his servants the things which must happen soon.” Explain how this now become 2000 years into the future? Soon means not long from now.

    The FACT the Jesus was conceived of the spirit nullifies him as being the true Messiah as he ISN’T of the seed of David or Solomon – Jesus’s seed is of the spirit. (II Sam 7:1-17) God’s promise to David…read it! It’s not the Jesus, it’s Solomon.

    Jesus being conceived of the spirit can also not be from the tribe of Judah for the same reason he is of the seed of David or Solomon.

    The Messiah is suppose to gather the Jewish people back to the land of Israel; if you are going to say Jesus will do this when he returns, the issue with this statement is when Jesus returns he is going to judge the world and those who don’t “believe” in him will be condemned. Guess what, Jews who practice Judaism don’t accept Jesus as the Messiah as he never fulfilled what God said the true Messiah was to be and do. So who is Jesus going to gather back to the land of Israel?

    One thing you MUST explain Gene, is Isa 66:23 when it say ALL PEOPLE, ALL FLESH will come to worship God. What it doesn’t say is all who believe in the Jesus will worship God.

    People really need to spend some time in the Tanakh; read and study what God said thru HIS prophets.

    I would be more than happy to go over Danial chapter 9, not a few verses you believe point to the Jesus, the entire chapter beginning in verse one. Are you up for the challenge?

    May 30, 2024 at 2:16 am#946484
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    DT……Yes let do that, let’s see what Daniel said about the coming of the Messiah. I will let you start seeing you see it differently.

    peace and love to you and yours DT……..gene

    June 1, 2024 at 6:02 am#946485
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    Revelation 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

    June 2, 2024 at 1:02 am#946488
    GeneBalthrop
    Participant

    Danny……Yes Jesus is the “root and offspring of David. And this root and offspring came into his existence when he was born in the flesh on this earth some 2000 years ago.  Jesus did not preexist his birth on this earth,  he was in the Devine plan of God the Father from the foundations of this earth, but never existed till he was born here on earth.

    peace and love to you and yours Danny……….gene

    June 2, 2024 at 4:17 am#946490
    Danny Dabbs
    Participant

    The Show is Over

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