Proclaimer:  Mike’s doctrine is based on misunderstandings.

Proclaimer, why did the psalmist tell the waters above heaven to praise Yahweh in verse four, and then later tell the clouds to praise Yahweh in verse 8?

What is your direct and honest answer?  Thanks.

But as far as I know, there just isn’t enough info in the Bible to definitively tell what they really did know about the world.

Same goes for you Mike.

Mike: Yes. When God created the raqia and named it heaven, it was the ONLY heaven.

 

Berean:  you mean in the sight of men?

Don’t you believe that Adam and Eve had knowledge of God’s HEAVEN (HIS THRONE)?

Adam and Eve must have known that God dwelt somewhere outside of their world.  It’s hard to say what they knew about the world, since there…[Read more]

How can you seriously say that clouds are IN the sky… but also the waters that are ABOVE the sky?

There are three layers of heaven or three heavens.

There is a separation of the waters and the top layer is above the raqia that exists between the waters.

Water Above

Expanse / Sky / Space

Water Below

I’m not saying this is how it is, but that i…[Read more]

Gene:  Proclaimer……To me the simplest way of saying it is, heaven is  the sky above. The clouds are in the sky…

It’s like I’m talking to a brick wall.  Gene, if heaven is “the sky above”, and clouds are IN the sky – as YOU just claimed – then why can’t you see that clouds can’t be the waters ABOVE “the sky above”?

How can you seriously say tha…[Read more]

I think you’re getting confused because God NAMED the firmament “heaven”.  Raqia doesn’t actually MEAN “heaven”.  That is a different Hebrew word.

So when the Bible talks of three different heavens, it is not talking about three different raqias.  There is still only one of those, and it is the second of the three different heavens.

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 I think the best thing to do is not respond to him,  and just see where he takes his new converts  Berean and Danny to.

That would be handy. I prefer quality conversation than quantity any day.

To me the simplest way of saying it is, heaven is  the sky above.

Agreed. Some translations agree too.

Mike’s doctrine is based on misunderstandings.

Mike: Yes. When God created the raqia and named it heaven, it was the ONLY heaven. 

Me :you mean in the sight of men?

Don’t you believe that Adam and Eve had knowledge of God’s HEAVEN (HIS THRONE)?
🙏

Mike: Yes. When God created the raqia and named it heaven, it was the ONLY heaven. As time went by, God’s people started differentiating between the place where the clouds are (the first heaven), the raqia where the luminaries are (the second heaven – second in height, but still first in existence), and the dwelling place of God (the third and hig…

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Hi to all

Hère is the Daily Devotional
Gift of God’s Love, 
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16. 

How can we understand God? How are we to know our Father? We are to call Him by the endearing name of Father. And how are we to kn…[Read more]

Mike …..Heres one for you,  Satan your mentor said,  that they wouldn’t die  when they eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, right? BUT God said they would die “in “the day, ” they ate of it,  but you see they never died in a 24 hour day after they ate of it now did they? But they certanily did die within a thousand years aft…[Read more]

Proclaimer……To me the simplest way of saying it is, heaven is  the sky above. The clouds are in the sky, the coulds are made up of water, being condensed from a gas of h2o, to a liquid state, and when they get heavy enough,  the accumalated water rains on the earth as liquid water, and as it decends, if it gets below a certain tempture level i…[Read more]

Hi Mike,

So Matthew is a liar then and the bible is not reliable? Please directly address the fact that Matthew says he is giving us THE BOOK OF Jesus’s GENESIS/ORIGIN the book of his GENEA/GENETIC LINE where that book that he gives goes from Abraham to Joseph.

Can you concede that it is possible for Mary to be found with child of Joseph’s…[Read more]

Must answer question
What is the Hebrew word for heaven or heavens?

Are you stupid?

A day is not like a day for us.

It’s a scripture.

Not three raqias, Pretender, but three heavens.  The raqia is the firmament, and there is only one of those. The luminaries are IN it, and the waters are ABOVE it.

WRONG!

Let there be a raqia in the midst of the waters , and let it separate the waters from the waters. And God made the raqia, and separated the waters which were below the…[Read more]

Pretender: There are three heavens.

This solves your waters above the stars problem.

So there is raqia between the water on the surface of our planet and in the sky as clouds that condense as rain and snow.

And then there are stars in the raqia which is probably the second heaven.

And God is in the raqia, but the third heaven.

Not three…[Read more]

Pretender, your “pagan religion” meme is not very good for your cause.  First of all, it makes a stronger argument for “firmament” than for “expanse”.

Secondly, even IF you want to use “expanse”, you still have to determine what the waters ABOVE THE EXPANSE are.  Remember, they are not IN the expanse… but ABOVE the expanse.

And thirdly, you s…[Read more]

Danny: @t8 @genebalthrop

Yes, God called the raqia heaven. But there are three heavens. (2 Corinthians 12:2)
I agree with Mike and Berean that the raqia is not the highest heaven.

Yes.  When God created the raqia and named it heaven, it was the ONLY heaven.  As time went by, God’s people started differentiating between place where the clouds are…[Read more]

Mike:  The alleged tilt brings the North Pole 3000 miles CLOSER to the sun at the very time the earth itself is 3,000,000 miles FARTHER from the sun… yet the tiny tilt is supposed to overcome the HUGE increase in distance from the heat source, and somehow make it WARMER? Only an idiot would believe such nonsense.

 

Pretender: Mike, stop pe…

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