John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 9,661 through 9,680 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #309981
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,10:44)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,16:51)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:24)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,14:56)
    Mike,

    It would be deceptive to acknowledge such possibilities!


    Could you tell me WHY, Frank?


    Mike,

    Because Yahshua did not pre-exist his birth as an actual being.


    Wow Frank.   That's a pretty cynical stance – being afraid to even consider the FACTS of the matter, just because those facts might go against your doctrine.  ???

    (Oh, and btw, no one “deceived me” about scriptural truth.  I was an atheist who read the Bible for the first time about 3 years ago.  I read it by myself, alone.  Since then I've read it 3 more times, and have just started again for the 5th time.  When I joined this site, it was to scripturally disprove the Trinity Doctrine.  I seriously had no idea, in all my 47 years, that there even existed people who thought Jesus didn't pre-exist his flesh.  One time, I checked out the “Pre-Existence” thread, just to see what it even meant.  I was SHOCKED to learn that people who claimed to have read the Bible could believe such an asinine thing that flies in the face of SO many scriptures.

    Yet here we are, a couple of years later.  :) )

    Now Frank, why not put your personal doctrine aside for just a second, and consider the facts about the translation of John 1:1c from Greek to English.  It is an undeniable FACT that there are THREE ways it can be translated into English.  There is nothing to be “deceived” about, for it is simply grammatical translational FACTS I'm trying to discuss with you.


    Wow Mike,

    As of yet you have not presented any facts! :D

    Satan has deceived you! Satan knows what your so-called “Holy Bible” says better than you! :D

    I was SHOCKED to learn that people who claimed to have STUDIED SCRIPTURE could believe such an asinine thing as “Jesus pre-existed his birth as “a god” in the face of SO many Scriptures that clearly teach that he came into existence in this last time period as “a man”.

    I do not have a personal doctrine to put aside! :D

    It is NOT an undeniable FACT that there are THREE ways Yahchanan [John] 1:1 can be translated into English.

    You are most definitely deceived that Yahshua pre-existed his birth as “a god”! :D

    Your trying to discuss with me grammatical translational FACTS when in it is quite obvious that you have no knowledge whatsoever of such facts? :D

    ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
    Exodus 32
    By Voy Wilks
    3/9/98

    The Pre-existence
    Philippians 2:5-11
    By Voy Wilks
    1/29/92

    WHO IS THE WORD?
    John Chapter One

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

    #309982
    terraricca
    Participant

    edj

    Quote
    Hi Mike,

    Because that is not the bible's message.
    The bible's message is that there are no other gods.

    and stay away from all other gods right ??? YES

    #309983
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,10:52)

    Quote (Frank4YAHWEH @ Aug. 20 2012,17:07)
    Mike,

    1.  The fact is, “the Word [DID COME] TO BE IN SOMEONE [YAHSHUA] WHO WAS ALREADY FLESH”.  

    2.  Unfortunately for your understanding,  Yahchanan [John] 1:14 says “the Word BECAME flesh”.


    Frank,

    1.  Can you show me the word “IN” in the Greek text of John 1:14?

    2.  Yes, that is the correct translation of 1:14.  

    Jesus is the Word + The Word became flesh = Jesus became flesh and dwelled among us with the only possible glory he could have had as God's only begotten Son.

    Do YOU know what glory the Word dwelled among us with, Frank?  (Hint:  John 1:14)


    Mike,

    So, you now openly admit that you do not believe that Father Yahweh's word (spirit, truth), was IN Yahshua, right? ???

    Nowhere in ANY Scripture translation does it ever say “Jesus is the Word.”

    ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
    Exodus 32
    By Voy Wilks
    3/9/98

    The Pre-existence
    Philippians 2:5-11
    By Voy Wilks
    1/29/92

    WHO IS THE WORD?
    John Chapter One

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

    #309984
    Frank4YAHWEH
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,11:25)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 20 2012,17:09)
    Hi Mike,

    Because that is not the bible's message.
    The bible's message is that there are no other gods.


    No Ed,

    That's YOUR message.  The BIBLE'S messages is “indeed there are many gods” – as you're slowly beginning to learn in the thread by that name.  :)


    There is no other source of power, might or strength [“god”] other than Father Yahweh! All other so-called “gods” are powerless!

    ELOHIM: ONE, OR MORE THAN ONE?
    Exodus 32
    By Voy Wilks
    3/9/98

    The Pre-existence
    Philippians 2:5-11
    By Voy Wilks
    1/29/92

    WHO IS THE WORD?
    John Chapter One

    Did Yahshua Create Or Pre-exist His Birth?

    “Jesus IS God!”?

    #309985
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,11:21)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,18:07)
    it is not god but God.


    Wrong again.  In the Greek texts, which were written in all caps, it would be “GOD”.  But feel free to keep teaching me about Greek, jammin.


    for those who studied greek, they know the right usage of the word.
    they will never agree to you mike. those who does not know greek, will agree to you. maybe….

    sorry mike, your god doctrine about Christ is not really in the bible.
    only your NWT supports your doctrine, but that translation is obviously biased. JW made their own bible just to support their illusion.
    most bibles never agree to your john 1.1 doctrine.
    most scholars will surely never agree to you mike.

    commentaries will also never agree to you.
    only your nwt supports your god doctrine about christ.
    make another bible to make it two LOL

    #309986
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,11:21)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,18:07)
    it is not god but God.


    Wrong again.  In the Greek texts, which were written in all caps, it would be “GOD”.  But feel free to keep teaching me about Greek, jammin.


    non sense.
    for those who studied greek, they know what to use.
    let me post john 1.18
    New International Version (©1984)
    No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

    New Living Translation (©2007)
    No one has ever seen God. But the unique One, who is himself God, is near to the Father's heart. He has revealed God to us.

    English Standard Version (©2001)
    No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father’s side, he has made him known.

    New American Standard Bible (©1995)
    No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

    King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    International Standard Version (©2008)
    No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.

    Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
    No man has seen God at any time; The Only Begotten God Who is in the bosom of The Father, he has declared him.”

    GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
    No one has ever seen God. God's only Son, the one who is closest to the Father's heart, has made him known.

    King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
    No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

    American King James Version
    No man has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

    American Standard Version
    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him .

    Douay-Rheims Bible
    No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Darby Bible Translation
    No one has seen God at any time; the only-begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    English Revised Version
    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Webster's Bible Translation
    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

    Weymouth New Testament
    No human eye has ever seen God: the only Son, who is in the Father's bosom–He has made Him known.

    World English Bible
    No one has seen God at any time. The one and only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has declared him.

    Young's Literal Translation
    God no one hath ever seen; the only begotten Son, who is on the bosom of the Father — he did declare.

    ——-
    i did not see god there. what i can read is God and not god boy. LOL

    sorry mike, you have no knowledge about it. you just want your doctrine to be accpted by men but no supporting verses. purely illusion mike.
    only your NWT supports your dctrine. obviously, a biased version(NWT) LOL

    #309991
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,16:57)
    limjunus,

    sorry but ur understanding is wrong about jn 1.18 LOL

    you should make your own bible boy before talking to me so that your illusion will be supported LOL

    God is nature according to paul phil 2.6
    they have one nature, and that is their nature God.

    do you have two nature boy?? lol

    go back to school LOL


    Jammin, answer my questions first before you can said that I am in my illusion.

    THE QUESTIONS THAT JAMMIN DID NOT ANSWER AND MAY BE HE SHALL NEVER ANSWER IT FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

    1.) Who is the One and only true God, the begotten Son of God or the Father, who had begotten the Son?

    2.) Where in the Bible that we could read that the One and only true God composed of two or three persons?

    3.) Who is the one has been crucified and died in the cross, Jesus Christ, or the One and only true God

    Jammin, is caught in the act, his lips closed and can not make the rightful answers. he he he

    You just stick with your imagination and may be remained dumb with my questions. :D

    #309992
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,11:19)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,18:04)
    LOL

    sorry mike but i think you should really go to school mike.
    that is for your own good.


    jammin,

    This is just “trash talk”.  It often comes into play on this forum when certain people can't actually confirm or support the things they claim.  When it comes to the point that they know they can't actually answer the questions asked by others (like the three questions limjunis has REPEATEDLY asked you), then those of us who are “small minded” resort to trash talking in an effort to divert peoples' attention away from the fact that they simply can't answer the questions or address the points.

    There really is no room for this kind of stuff on a Christian scriptural discussion forum, is there?


    Hi Jammin,

    Mike is learning more Hebrew and Greek every day.


    I suggest that both of you:

    focus on the “Textus Receptus” – as the “Official Greek Text”!

    and likewise, the “Masoretic Text” as the “Official Hebrew Text”!

    …and furthermore – The “AKJV Bible” as the “Official English Text”!

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org

    #310000
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (carmel @ Aug. 20 2012,17:12)
    [quote=limjunus,Aug. 20 2012,16:04][/quote]

    Quote
    (c.) “He has revealed God to us.” (Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us; Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)

    Limjunus,

    These are you words:

    (c.) “He has revealed God to us.”

    BY BEING A MAN LIKE US,THEREFORE THE TRUE VISISBLE GOD,THE INVISIBLE ONE NEVER ESTABLISHED HIMSELF,NO MATTER HOW MANY MIRACLES HE DID THROGUHOUT CREATION,TILL JESUS CAME.
    EVEN TODAY THE OT GOD STILL IS A CONFUSION, THE REASON THAT HE HAD TO COME AS HUMAN BEING IN HIS SON, IN A MODE TO SAY ONLY, FOR US TO UNDERSTAND THE RELATION BETWEEN GOD AND HIS OWN GENUINE SPIRIT SUBSTANCE BUT VISIBLE.

    (Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us;

    AGAIN THE ONLY WAY FOR THE FATHER TO REVEAL HIMSELF,WAS ONLY IN BEING LIKE HIS OWN CREATURES IN ORDER TO INTEGRATED AND MAKE IT FURTHER POSIBLE TO ACCEPT HIM

    Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)

    SO YOU ARE WRONG FOR HUMANS THERE ARE NO VISIBLE CARNAL GODS EXCEPT JESUS SINCE THROUGH HIM THEY WERE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT AND WERE RECONCILED ONTO HIMSELF TO BE ONE WITH HIM AND IN THE SAME INSTANT WITH THE FATHER.

    SO ONLY THROUGH JESUS AS THE TRUE BROTHER.
    THEY HAVE THE TRUE  FATHER, THE  TRUE LORD,  AND THE TRUE GOD.

    PEACE AND LOVE IN THE ONLY TRUE VISIBLE GOD.

    CHARLES


    Carmel said:

    “AGAIN THE ONLY WAY FOR THE FATHER TO REVEAL HIMSELF,WAS ONLY IN BEING LIKE HIS OWN CREATURES IN ORDER TO INTEGRATED AND MAKE IT FURTHER POSIBLE TO ACCEPT HIM”

    SO YOU ARE WRONG FOR HUMANS THERE ARE NO VISIBLE CARNAL GODS EXCEPT JESUS SINCE THROUGH HIM THEY WERE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT AND WERE RECONCILED ONTO HIMSELF TO BE ONE WITH HIM AND IN THE SAME INSTANT WITH THE FATHER.

    Carmel, that's your own opinion and comprehension without the support of the Biblical truth.

    Here is the Biblical truth about how we could be known the One and only true God.

    Romans 1:19-21 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)

    18-21 Now the holy anger of God is disclosed from Heaven against the godlessness and evil of those men who render truth dumb and inoperative by their wickedness. It is not that they do not know the truth about God; indeed he has made it quite plain to them. For since the beginning of the world the invisible attributes of God, e.g. his eternal power and divinity, have been plainly discernible through things which he has made and which are commonly seen and known, thus leaving these men without a rag of excuse. They knew all the time that there is a God, yet they refused to acknowledge him as such, or to thank him for what he is or does. Thus they became fatuous in their argumentations, and plunged their silly minds still further into the dark.

    Take note the ff messages, Carmel.

    “It is not that they do not know the truth about God; indeed he has made it quite plain to them. For since the beginning of the world the invisible attributes of God, e.g. his eternal power and divinity, have been plainly discernible through things which he has made and which are commonly seen and known, thus leaving these men without a rag of excuse.”

    Carmel, “have been plainly discernible through things which he has made and which are commonly seen and known,

    God, even though he is invisible, he can be seen through the things he has made.

    What else the other way that we could understand, God and about him?

    1 John 5:20 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

    20 And we know that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding. So now we can know the one who is true, and we live in that true God. We are in his Son, Jesus Christ. He is the true God, and he is eternal life.

    Hebrews 1:1-2 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

    God Has Spoken Through His Son

    1.) In the past God spoke to our people through the prophets. He spoke to them many times and in many different ways.

    2.) And now in these last days, God has spoken to us again through his Son. He made the whole world through his Son. And he has chosen his Son to have all things.

    So, what is the Son of God told us, about who is the One and only true God and the eternal life?

    John 17:1 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

    1.) After Jesus said these things, he looked toward heaven and prayed, “Father, the time has come. Give glory to your Son so that the Son can give glory to you.

    3.) And this is eternal life: that people can know you [Father], the only true God, and that they can know Jesus Christ, the one you sent.

    The great messenger and spokesman of God, very clearly spoke to us, that to know his Father, the only true God, is the eternal life and the rightful wisdom from God. “THIS THE TRUE GOD AND ETERNAL LIFE, TO KNOW MY FATHER IS THE ONLY TRUE GOD”

    Carmel, the above wisdom is not my own opinion and it is very plainly truth from the Bible.

    Peace. :D

    #310004
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 21 2012,15:07)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,16:57)
    limjunus,

    sorry but ur understanding is wrong about jn 1.18 LOL

    you should make your own bible boy before talking to me so that your illusion will be supported LOL

    God is nature according to paul phil 2.6
    they have one nature, and that is their nature God.

    do you have two nature boy?? lol

    go back to school LOL


    Jammin, answer my questions first before you can said that I am in my illusion.

    THE QUESTIONS THAT JAMMIN DID NOT ANSWER AND MAY BE HE SHALL NEVER ANSWER IT FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

    1.)  Who is the One and only true God, the begotten Son of God or the Father, who had begotten the Son?

    2.) Where in the Bible that we could read that the One and only true God composed of two or three persons?

    3.) Who is the one has been crucified and died in the cross, Jesus Christ, or the One and only true God

    Jammin, is caught in the act, his lips closed and can not make the rightful answers.  he he he

    You just stick with your imagination and may be remained dumb with my questions.  :D


    how can i answer a person without common sense??? LOL

    have you forgotten that you are trying to prove that Christ is not God using your favorite version NLT ??? LOL

    sad to say, bec your NLT believes Christ is God. LOL

    go back to school and study common sense LOL

    #310005
    jammin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 21 2012,15:09)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,11:19)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,18:04)
    LOL

    sorry mike but i think you should really go to school mike.
    that is for your own good.


    jammin,

    This is just “trash talk”.  It often comes into play on this forum when certain people can't actually confirm or support the things they claim.  When it comes to the point that they know they can't actually answer the questions asked by others (like the three questions limjunis has REPEATEDLY asked you), then those of us who are “small minded” resort to trash talking in an effort to divert peoples' attention away from the fact that they simply can't answer the questions or address the points.

    There really is no room for this kind of stuff on a Christian scriptural discussion forum, is there?


    Hi Jammin,

    Mike is learning more Hebrew and Greek every day.


    I suggest that both of you:

    focus on the “Textus Receptus” – as the “Official Greek Text”!

    and likewise, the “Masoretic Text” as the “Official Hebrew Text”!

    …and furthermore – The “AKJV Bible” as the “Official English Text”!

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org


    both of you can be classmates boy

    #310006
    jammin
    Participant

    i think this limjunus is a filipino. LOL
    study common sense boy LOL

    #310007
    limjunus
    Participant

    Carmel,

    How we would recognize Jesus Christ?

    Let the Biblical truth reveal the answers.

    John 17:3 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)

    3.) And this is eternal life: that people can know you [Father], the only true God, and that they can know Jesus Christ, the one you sent.”

    Carmel, … and that they can know Jesus Christ, the one you sent.”

    John 3:34 TEV

    “The one whom God has sent speaks God's words, because God gives him the fullness of his Spirit.”

    John 4:34 TEV

    “My food,” Jesus said to them, “is to obey the will of the one who sent me and to finish the work he gave me to do.”

    John 5:29 TEV

    I can do nothing on my own authority; I judge only as God tells me, so my judgment is right, because I am not trying to do what I want, but only what he who sent me wants.

    John 5:36 TEV

    “And the Father, who sent me, also testifies on my behalf. You have never heard his voice or seen his face,”

    John 7:16 King James Version (KJV)
    “Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.”

    John 5:23 TEV
    “I am telling you the truth: whoever hears my words and believes in him who sent me has eternal life. He will not be judged, but has already passed from death to life.

    Carmel, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior told us to hear or listen to what he have teaches us. He is telling us the truth about God.

    The truth is, 'WE SHOULD BELIEVE THAT THE ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD IS HIS “FATHER ALONE” and we should accept that he (Jesus Christ) has been sent by the ONE AND ONLY TRUE GOD.

    and hear this also, Carmel. “

    “John 13:16 NKJV
    “Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him.”

    Father is the sender and greater than the sent, Jesus Christ. THE TRUE ONLY GOD, DID NOT SENT HIMSELF BUT HE SENT THE “CHRIST' THE SO CALLED THE BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD THE HEIRS OF EVERYTHING CREATED BY GOD.

    Peace.

    :D

    #310008
    limjunus
    Participant

    Carmel,

    What is the doctrines of Christ about himself?

    John 8:40 King James Version (KJV)

    “But now ye seek to kill me, “A MAN” that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.”

    What the apostles told us about Jesus Christ?

    Acts 2:22 King James Version (KJV)

    “Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:”

    1 Timothy 2:5 King James Version (KJV)

    “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, “THE MAN” Christ Jesus;”[U]

    Carmel, the above messages is not from my own opinion. It is the truth plainly come from the Biblical testimony.

    Peace. :D

    #310009
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 21 2012,16:25)

    Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 21 2012,15:09)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,11:19)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,18:04)
    LOL

    sorry mike but i think you should really go to school mike.
    that is for your own good.


    jammin,

    This is just “trash talk”.  It often comes into play on this forum when certain people can't actually confirm or support the things they claim.  When it comes to the point that they know they can't actually answer the questions asked by others (like the three questions limjunis has REPEATEDLY asked you), then those of us who are “small minded” resort to trash talking in an effort to divert peoples' attention away from the fact that they simply can't answer the questions or address the points.

    There really is no room for this kind of stuff on a Christian scriptural discussion forum, is there?


    Hi Jammin,

    Mike is learning more Hebrew and Greek every day.


    I suggest that both of you:

    focus on the “Textus Receptus” – as the “Official Greek Text”!

    and likewise, the “Masoretic Text” as the “Official Hebrew Text”!

    …and furthermore – The “AKJV Bible” as the “Official English Text”!

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    holycitybiblecode.org


    both of you can be classmates boy


    Hi Jammin,

    What, do you suggest, should be the focus of our studies?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #310010
    kerwin
    Participant

    To all,

    This is the start of my College year and I chose to be a full time student. That will limit my time.

    #310011
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ Aug. 21 2012,08:01)

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 19 2012,23:04)
    (a.)”No one has ever seen God.” (Because he is invisible 1 Tim 1:17 NLT.)

    (b.) “But the unique one, who is himself God, is near to Father's heart.” ( a God near the God's heart?…Crushing or a contradiction with the Oneness of the only true God)

    (c.) “He has revealed God to us.” (Jesus Christ is the one who revealed God to us; Jesus Christ is not the One and only true God)


    I know, limjunis.  It's just silly if you ask me.  Here is the NIV translation:

    A.  No one has EVER seen God………. but John wrote this AFTER many people had seen Jesus.  ???

    B.  but God the One and Only………. Jesus is “God the ONE and ONLY”?   ???  

    C.  who is at the Father's side……………..  God the ONE and ONLY is “at the Father's side”?  Does that mean the Father is NOT “God the ONE and ONLY”?   ???

    D.  has made Him known…………Made WHO known?  WHO exactly did Jesus make known? (John 17:26)  And how can “God the ONE and ONLY” have a God of his own?  ???

    Anyway, good post limjunis.  I see jammin is again refusing to actually address the points I'm making, choosing instead to play games and make accusations.  How typical of him.


    Mike,

    Jammin, is alway running away and ignoring the questions addressed to him. He want only his arguments to be disscussed and do not like to be questioned.

    He always question this: “How many nature you have “boy”? One or two?

    Diverting the main issue to the matter that's not relevant.

    Here is the relevant question with the main issue.

    Christ Jesus is “A MAN” … Ref. John 8:40 / 1 Tim 2:5 / Acts 2:22 KJV.

    If a man has one nature, Now, how many nature Christ Jesus has?

    If the truly God, has only one nature, Christ Jesus could not be a truly God, because for being a man, he had already the nature of a man (human nature).

    But, Jammin. Still holding the error he has made. Teaching us that that the truly God, has two nature, a nature of a man and a nature of a God. Directly contradicting his stand that the God has only one nature.[B]

    :D

    #310012
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (kerwin @ Aug. 21 2012,17:25)
    To all,

    This is the start of my College year and I chose to be a full time student. That will limit my time.


    Hi Kerwin, good luck!

    What are you taking?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #310013
    Ed J
    Participant

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 21 2012,17:25)
    Mike,

    Jammin, is alway running away and ignoring the questions addressed to him.  He want only his arguments to be disscussed and do not like to be questioned.

    He always question this: “How many nature you have “boy”? One or two?

    Diverting the main issue to the matter that's not relevant.

    Here is the relevant question with the main issue.

    Christ Jesus is “A MAN” … Ref. John 8:40 / 1 Tim 2:5 / Acts 2:22 KJV.

    If a man has one nature, Now, how many nature Christ Jesus has?

    If the truly God, has only one nature, Christ Jesus could not be a truly  God, because for being a man, he had already the nature of a man (human nature).

    But, Jammin. Still holding the error he has made. Teaching us that that the truly God, has two nature, a nature of a man and a nature of a God.  Directly contradicting his stand that the God has only one nature.[B]

    :D


    Hi limjunus,

    YHVH (in the beginning) gave us “his nature”.
    We were created in his image and after his likeness.            …that would be his nature, would it not?

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

    #310015
    limjunus
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 21 2012,16:25)

    Quote (limjunus @ Aug. 21 2012,15:07)

    Quote (jammin @ Aug. 20 2012,16:57)
    limjunus,

    sorry but ur understanding is wrong about jn 1.18 LOL

    you should make your own bible boy before talking to me so that your illusion will be supported LOL

    God is nature according to paul phil 2.6
    they have one nature, and that is their nature God.

    do you have two nature boy?? lol

    go back to school LOL


    Jammin, answer my questions first before you can said that I am in my illusion.

    THE QUESTIONS THAT JAMMIN DID NOT ANSWER AND MAY BE HE SHALL NEVER ANSWER IT FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

    1.)  Who is the One and only true God, the begotten Son of God or the Father, who had begotten the Son?

    2.) Where in the Bible that we could read that the One and only true God composed of two or three persons?

    3.) Who is the one has been crucified and died in the cross, Jesus Christ, or the One and only true God

    Jammin, is caught in the act, his lips closed and can not make the rightful answers.  he he he

    You just stick with your imagination and may be remained dumb with my questions.  :D


    how can i answer a person without common sense??? LOL

    have you forgotten that you are trying to prove that Christ is not God using your favorite version NLT ??? LOL

    sad to say, bec your NLT believes Christ is God. LOL

    go back to school and study common sense LOL


    Jammin said,

    how can i answer a person without common sense??? LOL

    placing 3-question mark.

    Jammin, why not post this:

    I am Jammin has no common sense, the proof is I could not answer the very simple questions have asked by limjunus.[B]

    Jammin, teaching is not only non-sense but he really without common sense by teaching us that “TRULY GOD HAS HIS OWN TRULY GOD”???

    Oh, come on “kiddie boy”…… simple arithmetic and simple logic you could not comprehend easily. Go back to your teachers and slap them.

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