John 1:1

John 1:1 says the Word was God. Does that mean that Jesus is God because he is the Word?
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

a) In the beginning was the Word, (en arch hn o logoV)
b) and the Word was with God, (kai o logoV hn proV ton qeon)
c) and the Word was God. (kai qeoV hn o logoV).

John 1:1b says that the Word was with God and John 1:1c says that the Word was God, so how can the Word be God and be with God at the same time? Well part of the answer to discovering the meaning of this verse is found in 1 John 1:1-2

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon and touched with our hands, concerning the word of life and the life was manifested, and we saw it, and testify to it, and proclaim to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was made manifest to us”.

First when we read 1John 1:2, it suggests to us that the God in John1:1b is the Father himself.

Secondly, we see In John 1:1c, the last word God is missing the definite article, (THE). The definite article is before all other instances of the word ‘God’ and ‘Logos’ in John 1:1. (e.g., the Word, The God.), yet is absent in the last mention of God. Read on because this can be significant as you are about to find out.

Greek sentence construction affirms that if a noun doesn’t have a preceding article, (THE) it can be read as an adjective (a predicate adjective); and if such a noun does have a preceding article it should be considered a noun (a predicate nominative). Understanding this is a game changer. Scholars see the benefit of the rule for affirming the deity of Christ in John 1:1, but haven’t made the difference clear regarding the difference between identity and nature or definite and qualitative. Don’t worry if this makes no sense to you. It will.

Look at the difference between these two sentences.

1) You are an angel
2) You are THE angel.

Notice how the first one is using the word angel in a qualitative way while the second is definite. Hence the term ‘definite article’.

In John 1:1, all instances of the word ‘God” are preceded by the definite article ‘THE’, except the last one.

So it literally says:

John1:1
a) In the beginning was THE God.
b) THE Word was with THE God
c) And THE Word was god.

Why is the last word not capitalised? Where Greek uses the definite article in English we capitalise the word. e.g., the god = God.

So it is grammatically correct to read John 1:1c with a qualitative sense rather reading it as identifying the Word as God himself. It is not only grammatically correct to read it this way, it is also theologically correct because if we read it as THE Theos, then that would be saying that the Logos is exclusively God even to the exclusion of the Father. Now we have two good reasons for reading the last word ‘god/theos’ as qualitative and not as THE God or God.

In rebuttal to this, some say that God in the New Testament doesn’t always have a preceding definite article which is true, however looking at the verse contextually, we understand that there is clearly two being spoken of, i.e., one God and one called the Word with is clearly another who is next to God and is not that God he is with.

Let’s look at Adam and Eve as an example of two beings that were with each other. Before I give an example, it is important for you at this point to understand that the Hebrew word for ‘man’ is ‘adam’. This means that qualitatively, Adam and Eve are both adam. This is similar to the word theos which is translated as the ‘God’ & god. The absence of the definite article can qualify just as the word adam qualifies. As I said before, in English we use capitals to denote when being definite. So the difference between ‘Adam’ and ‘adam’ is that Adam refers to a specific man called Adam while the latter could refer to him as well as Eve and any other member of mankind. This is clearly stated in scripture in Genesis 1:27:

So God created man (adam) in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

The word for man is adam, so it says: God created ‘adam’ male and female. So saying that ‘Eve is adam’ is a true saying.

In English, If I said “John is the man”, then I am identifying John as  a definite and particular person of the human race. But if I omit the definite article and say “John is man,” then I do not identify him, I classify him. I say “John is human; he belongs to the sphere/nature of man.” Can you see the difference now?

To understand how the article can make a big difference to a piece of text, look at this example. Have a guess as to which one is correct.

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was THE man

a) In the beginning was THE woman
b) and THE woman was with THE man
c) and THE Woman was man

The correct one is the second example because it is saying that the woman belongs to mankind or man. Look at the next example:

a) Tools were used by man.
b) Tools were used by the man.

See how the first example is talking about mankind whereas the second example is talking of a specific man.

In other words the word ‘man’ can be used as an attribute or to describe one’s nature. It is not always used to identify a particular person and it can even refer to more than one person.

Now let’s have a look at the above example, but using Adam and Eve instead. Notice in English that we do not have the definite article preceding Adam or Eve, because capitalising both Adam and Eve leads us to view these words in a definite sense, the same way that Greek requires the definite article. Essentially THE adam/man in Greek is the same as Adam in English.

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was Adam

a) In the beginning was Eve,
b) and Eve was with Adam
c) and Eve was adam

Notice that the second example is still the correct one.

To further understand the important difference between identity and nature, take a look at John 6:70. When speaking of his betrayer Judas Iscariot, Jesus said, “One of you is a devil.” Did Jesus mean that Judas is actually Satan the Devil? No! He merely meant to say that Judas is like (class) a devil, or that he had the qualities or nature of a/the devil. The word “devil” here has no article in the Greek as you have probably guessed, but most translators deem it necessary to add the indefinite article “a” to complete the thought in English even though it is not present in Greek or any Greek. Greek has no indefinite articles, (a,an).

So Judas wasn’t Satan himself, rather he was diabolical, like the Devil. He had the qualities of the Devil. But that doesn’t rule out the fact that Satan is the Devil because it is not actually saying that Judas was the Devil himself. Rather Judas thought as the Devil; and acted as the Devil. He was not the Devil (definite), (Satan is); he was not an actual devil or demon, he was a devil (qualitative). He was one who had the mental disposition, the nature, of the Devil, who is Satan. So it is with John 1:1c.

The Logos was God has no definite article. It is really saying, The Logos was god. This is why the New English Bible and the Revised English Bible translate John 1:1 as “what God was, the Word was.” The TEV (1976) translates it, “the Word was the same as God.” Goodspeed translates this, “the Word was divine.” And Moffatt translates this, “the logos was divine.”

So what kind of being is Jesus then if the Word was theos (without the definite article)? The answer according to John 1:1 is that he must be a divine being if Jesus is the Word of God that was with God. In other words he is a being with God’s nature. A son possessing the nature of his Father. Not just an image, but THE image of God. He is the prototype, the firstborn. He is the mystery that was hidden but has been revealed in our time. He is all these things, but he is not THE God that he is the son of. That God is exclusively the Father and there are many scriptures to prove that which we will look at later in this page.

Many think that the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ always refer to YHWH. They take instances of their choosing to try and prove that Christ is YHWH. In their ignorance they cannot see that there are indeed many god (theos) and many lords, but for true believers there is one God (theos) the Father.

In fact, the word ‘theos’ and ‘elohim’ in scripture are used in reference to God (YHWH), Christ, Man, angels, Satan and idols. So when we see the word ‘theos’ or ‘elohim’, we should ask ourselves what kind of god is being referenced. The god of this age? The Most High God? The Almighty God? The mighty god? A false god? A human? An angel? We must also understand that the word ‘theos’ proceeded by the article (the) is talking of a noun and without the article, it can be an adjective or used to describe or qualify.

Let us now look at some quotes from scholars and writers that understand this. NOTE: this is not an endorsement with all that these authors have written, rather I am appealing to their view regarding John 1:1.

One prominent scholar called Origen is sometimes quoted by Trinitarians who appeal to his wisdom for other purposes. However, they avoid this particular quotation for obvious reasons. Origen wrote in the early 200’s A.D and was a noted expert in Koine Greek.

“We next notice John’s use of the article [“the”] in these sentences. He does not write without care in this respect, nor is he unfamiliar with the niceties of the Greek tongue. In some cases he uses the article, and in some he omits it. He adds the article to the Word, but to the name of theos he adds it sometimes only. He uses the article, when the name of theos refers to the uncreated cause of all things, and omits it when the Word is named theos. Does the same difference which we observe between theos with the article and theos without it prevail also between the Word with it and without it? We must enquire into this. As the theos who is over all is theos with the article not without it, so the Word is the source of that reason (Logos) which dwells in every reasonable creature; the reason which is in each creature is not, like the former called par excellence the Word. Now there are many who are sincerely concerned about religion, and who fall here into great perplexity. They are afraid that they may be proclaiming two theos [gods] and their fear drives them into doctrines which are false and wicked. Either they deny that the Son has a distinct nature of His own besides that of the Father, and make Him whom they call the Son to be theos all but the name, or they deny divinity of the Son, giving Him a separate existence of His own, and making His sphere of essence fall outside that of the Father, so that they are separable from each other. To such persons we have to say that “the theos” on the one hand is Autotheos [God of himself] and so the Saviour says in His prayer to the Father, “That they may know Thee the only true theos [God]; “but that all beyond the theos [God] is made theos by participation in His deity, and is not to be called simply “theos” but rather “the theos “. And thus the first-born of all creation, who is the first to be with the theos , and to attract to Himself deity, is a being of more exalted rank than the other theos [gods] beside Him, of which theos is the theos [God], as it is written, “The theos [God] of theos [gods], the Lord, hath spoken and called the earth.” It was by the offices of the first-born that they became theos [gods], for He drew from the theos [God] in generous measure that they should be made theos [gods], and He communicated it to them according to His own bounty. The true theos [God], then, is “the theos ,” [“the God” as opposed to “god”] and those who are formed after Him are theos [such as the Son of God], images, as it were, of Him the prototype. But the archetypal image, again, of all these images is the word of the theos [God], who was in the beginning, and who by being with the theos [God] is at all times deity, not possessing that of Himself, but by His being with the Father, and not continuing to be theos , if we should think of this, except by remaining always in uninterrupted contemplation of the depths of the Father.”
(Origen’s Commentary on the Gospel of John, Book II, 2)

“Irenaeus [in the second century] could still interpret MK. Xiii, 32 in the following manner: the Son confessed not to know that which only the Father knew; hence ‘ we learn from himself that the Father is over all’, as he who is greater also than the Son. But the Nicene theologians had now suddenly to deny that Jesus could have said such a thing about the Son. In the long-recognized scriptural testimony for the Logos-doctrine provided by Prov. Viii, 22 ff. The exegetes of the second and third centuries had found the creation of the preexistent Logos-Christ set forth without dispute and equivocation. But now, when the Arians also interpreted the passage in this way, the interpretation was suddenly reckoned as false…. A theologian such as Tertullian by virtue of his Subordinationist manner of thinking, could confidently on occasion maintain that, before all creation, God the Father had been originally ‘alone’, and thus there was a time when ‘the Son was not’. When he did so, within the Church of his day such a statement did not inevitably provoke a controversy, and indeed there was none about it. But now, when Arius said the same thing in almost the same words, he raised thereby in the Church a mighty uproar, and such a view was condemned as heresy in the anathemas of Nicaea.” e.a.]
-pp. 155-8. The Formation of Christian Dogma, by Martin Werner, D.D.

When the writers of the New Testament speak of God they mean the God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ. When they speak of Jesus Christ, they do not speak of him, nor think of him as God. He is God’s Christ, God’s Son, God’s Wisdom, God’s Word. Even the prologue to St. John {John 1:1-18} which comes nearest to the Nicene Doctrine, must be read in the light of the pronounced subordinationism of the Gospel as a whole; and the Prologue is less explicit in Greek with the anarthrous theos [the word “god” at John 1:1c without the article] than it appears in English… The adoring exclamation of St. Thomas “my Lord and my god” (Joh. xx. 28) is still not quite the same as an address to Christ as being without qualification [limitation] God, and it must be balanced by the words of the risen Christ himself to Mary Magdalene (verse. 17) “Go unto my brethren and say to them, I ascend unto my Father and your Father, and my God and your God.” Jesus Christ is frequently spoken of in the Ignation Epistles as “our God”, “my God”, but probably never as “God” without qualification.
– John Martin Creed in The Divinity of Jesus Christ.

The word for “god” in Greek is QEOS. In John 1:1 the last occurrence of QEOS is called “a predicate noun” or, “a predicate nominative”. Such a noun tells us something about the subject, instead of telling what the subject is doing. This use of QEOS has reference to the subject, the Word, and does not have the article preceding it; it is anarthrous. This indicates that it is not definite. That is to say, it does not tell what position or office or rank the subject (the Word) occupies. The verb HN “was” follows the predicate noun QEOS; this is another factor in identifying QEOS here as qualitative. This discloses the quality or character of the Word. Of course, the gentleman up above disagrees with me, and he has used Moulton and Colwell to buttress his argument. But what have other Grammarians said about this same type of construction? There is no basis for regarding the predicate theos as definite. In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate [noun] is so prominent that the noun cannot be regarded as definite.
-Philip Harner, Journal of Biblical Literature, Vol. 92:1, 1973, pp. 85, 7.

We must, then take Theos, without the article, in the indefinite [“qualitative” would have been a better word choice] sense of a divine nature or a divine being, as distinguished from the definite absolute God [the Father], ho Theos, the authotheos [selfgod] of Origen. Thus the Theos of John [1:1c] answers to “the image of God” of Paul, Col. 1:15.
-G. Lucke, “Dissertation on the Logos”, quoted by John Wilson in, Unitarian Principles Confirmed by Trinitarian Testimonies, p. 428.

As mentioned in the Note on 1c, the Prologue’s “The Word was God” offers a difficulty because there is no article before theos. Does this imply that “god” means less when predicated of the Word than it does when used as a name for the Father? Once again the reader must divest himself of a post-Nicene understanding of the vocabulary involved.
-Raymond E. Brown, The Anchor Bible, p. 25.

The most natural reading of John 1:1 shows that there are two being mentioned (not three): God and a second who was ‘theos’. They are not presented as two coequal persons in a Binity or Trinity. What we really have is one with the character of THEOS who is with TON THEOS (the God), thus he cannot be the God he is with! The LOGOS is unique however. He/it is identified further in the gospel as “a son from a father, begotten, as a visible being verses the unseen God, Now, without redefining the word THEOS we need to explain how we can have two who are both referred to as “theos.” Either there were two equal Gods or persons called God, or it is talking about a godlike one that is with the Almighty God. When we read all the scriptures we see that the scriptures including the Book of John backs up the last view, that the Father is greater than the Son; that the Father is the only God and the Son is the image of The God.

So what conclusion are we to draw from John 1:1 and the Book of John? In John’s own words he explains the conclusion for his Book. This conclusion is not the Trinity Doctrine. Read the verse below to see what the conclusion is.

John 20:30-31.
30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name. “

So John wrote this gospel so that we may come to the conclusion that Jesus is truly the Christ and the Son of God. In addition to this important truth we are also told that we may receive life through his name. The Trinity Doctrine is not the conclusion that one should draw from this writing. Belief that Jesus is the Christ and the Son is the foundation of true faith and Jesus built his Church on this truth. The Trinity Doctrine is not that foundation, rather it is another foundation.

So why don’t translations of the bible translate John 1:1 as the Word was divine. Well first of all it is not incorrect to say that the Word was god, but Trinitarians translators say the Word was God which makes readers think that Jesus is the God (the person). However, in order to bring out the true meaning, some translations actually use the word ‘divine’. See below:

“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”
An American Translation, Edgar Goodspeed and J. M. Powis Smith, The University of Chicago Press, p. 173

“The Logos (word) existed in the very beginning, and the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine”
by Dr. James Moffatt

So the idea that Jesus Christ is God is often and supposedly supported by John 1:1. However the rest of John’s Gospel makes careful distinctions between Jesus and his Father as well as Jesus and God. This same distinction and separation is found throughout the rest of the New Testament too. The New Testament actually goes much further than merely distinguishing and separating the two. In John 17:3 Jesus, in prayer to his Father, refers to him as “the only true God”. In John 20:17 the resurrected Jesus refers to his Father as “my Father, and your Father; and… my God, and your God.” In I Corinthians 8:6 the Apostle Paul says of Christians, “to us there is but one God, the Father.” In I Timothy 2:5 Paul states, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” In Ephesians 1:17 Paul refers to the Father as “the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory.” And in Revelation 3:12 the resurrected and glorified Jesus says, “Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.”

We must also remember that the judges of Israel were called gods/theos. This doesn’t mean that they were part of God or part of the Trinity, it just means that they had authority given to them by God. It is also written that we can partake of divine nature, so that could also make us divine just as partaking in flesh makes us man. It must be noted though, that being divine or partaking in divine nature is different to actually being the Divine himself.

Also see John 10:34-35:
34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, I have said you are gods” (theos).
35 If he called them gods (theos), to whom the word of God (ho theos) came, and the Scripture cannot be broken,

2 Peter 1:4
Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.

Also Jesus said that he was one with his Father and he also prayed that we would be one with them. See John 17:21
that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.

We humans were intended to share in the divine nature too, yet we are not the God. John 1:1 shows us that the Word was god (divine), not (the Word was/is the God, Yahweh) which many seem to think it says. The Word came from God, is of God, is like God, and this is consistent with the scriptures we have looked at thus far. 1 Corinthians 11:3 reinforces this statement because the word “head” in the Greek is translated “from”, source or authority. Remember that the woman came from Man and Man came from Christ and Christ came from God. This is the divine order.

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

Jesus Christ is the Word of God, Jesus wasn’t created, rather the Word was born from God in eternity and that is why Jesus is called the Only Begotten of the Father. (John 1:14) (John 1:18) (John 3:16 ) (John 3:18 ) (1 John 4:9 ). The word begotten means (only child, single of its kind). Notice that our spirits are born from God, but through his Word, and our spirits will go back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7) . But Jesus was not begotten through the Word because he is the Word, this is why Jesus is unique because he is the only one begotten of the Father and therefore he is the image of his Father. That is why he is called the Image of God and the Firstborn of all creation (Colossians 1:15) and it is also why the Bible says in (Hebrews 1:5) For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father” Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”

Unlike his Father who is the invisible Spirit, Jesus does have a body and is visible. Jesus was born from God. We must remember that although his Father is greater than himself, he is also not just a man like us. Yes he partook of flesh and came as a man like us, but he also existed in the form of God as the Word or Logos. We are told that he resides between God and Man and as a man he is our mediator to God. It was indeed the Word that became flesh. God did not  become flesh, instead God resided in Christ who came in the flesh. So just like us, God can be in us who are made of flesh, but God himself did not become flesh. God is not a man and never will be a man. It was the Word who came to us as a man and it was the Word that all things  were created though. See John 1:3.
Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

And to compliment the fact that God made all things through his Word, and that Jesus is the Word of God, even ignoring the fact that Jesus wears a title, “The Word of God” as recorded in the Book of Revelation, we are specifically told, that God created everything through Jesus Christ. See :Hebrews 1:2
but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 

So Jesus was begotten not created and again, this is why he is called God’s only begotten Son and this is why he is unique. He is seated at the right hand of God and situated between God & Man. This is also why he is the only mediator between God & Man and the only name under heaven whereby Man can be saved. God made creation through him and for him and God redeemed creation through him too. God cannot fellowship with sin that is why he sent his Son into the world, so he could bring us back to himself through his mediator. Jesus came from God and he was in the beginning with God. So what does it mean when it says ‘beginning’? The Greek word for beginning, in John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word” is ‘arche’ and this word means the following:

1) beginning, origin
2) the person or thing that commences, the first person or thing in a series, the leader
3) that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
4) the extremity of a thing
4a) of the corners of a sail
5) the first place, principality, rule, magistracy
5a) of angels and demons

Below I will show you a verse where the word “beginning” or ‘arche’ is also mentioned and I think you will agree that it is rather obvious from this verse that it does not mean eternity or eternal. The verse is John 8:44
You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him.

Just for good measure, I will also throw in the first verse in the bible, which also uses the word beginning (note that this a Hebrew word). I am sure we can all agree that the earth has not been in existence for all of eternity.

Genesis 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

Certainly if we read John 1:1 correctly and in context with all scripture, we see that it is not teaching that God is a Trinity.

← Go back to ‘Supporting the Trinity Doctrine‘.


Discussion

Viewing 20 posts - 8,661 through 8,680 (of 26,009 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #305877
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (942767 @ July 11 2012,14:18)
    Hi Mike:

    You added that the word WHO to the scripture.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Well Marty,

    Since this Word became flesh and tabernacled (dwelled) among other human beings, and since those other human beings saw HIS glory, I understand this particular Word as a “who”. But I'll rephrase it for you in the effort of bringing you to the place I am trying to bring you:

    Quote (942767 @ July 08 2012,18:27)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:23)

    Quote (942767 @ July 01 2012,16:23)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2012,01:14)

    Quote (942767 @ June 30 2012,20:41)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,10:14)
    Marty,

    Is it scriptural that John the Baptist called Jesus “the Lamb of God” – even though Jesus wasn't literally a lamb? YES or NO?


    Yes.


    Hi Marty,

    And is it scriptural that Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” – even though he is not literally a spoke word from God? YES or NO?


    Yes.


    And is it scriptural that Jesus is called the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?


    Yes.


    And is it scriptural that the Word THAT became flesh dwelled on earth with the glory of the “monogenes” Son of God? YES or NO?

    #305880
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

    “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter

    #305881
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,06:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    Colter.

    Jesus spoke many words of wisdom in the gospels and in the book of revelation.

    Can you quote me some words that Jesus spoke in the book of urantia?

    wakeup.

    #305888
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 15 2012,06:56)

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,06:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    Colter.

    Jesus spoke many words of wisdom in the gospels and in the book of revelation.

    Can you quote me some words that Jesus spoke in the book of urantia?

    wakeup.


    Yes, we now have his entire life story.

    I chose the discourse on True Religion

    http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1407#U155_5_0

    Colter

    #305891
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,13:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    colter

    just because i write my comment in an condensate way ,it would not mean that you can interpret it the way you want it , :D

    I STICK TO WHAT I HAVE SAID,AND IT IS NOT OUT OF FEAR ,I ONLY FEAR GOD ALMITHY ,

    BUT LET THIS BE CLEAR ;ANY ONE THAT MAKES A BOOK ABOUT THE SCRIPTURES WITH HIS OWN IDEAS AND WAYS HIS A RELIGION ,AND THERE FOR AS TAKEN AWAY CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES GLORY ,BUT ABOVE ALL THEY HAVE SLANDERED THE GLORY OF GOD HIMSELF ,

    Quote
    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

    THIS COMMENT PLACE YOURSELF IN THE DEVIL CAMP,YOU HAVE LOST ALL TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU ARE NOW FOLLOWING THE DEVIL S WILL AND LECTURES YOUR FATHER IS THE DEVIL ,AND I AM NOT ANGRY,OR FRUSTRATED,IT SEEMS THAT YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL AS BLINDED YOU TO THE POINT THAT YOU HAVE LOST YOUR TASTE FOR GODLY TRUTH ,YOU HAVE NOW DEVELOPED HIS DECIESE “EGO”100% PURE EGO,

    Quote
    frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.


    ONLY THE DEVIL FEELS THIS SORT OF FRUSTRATION ,BECAUSE HE IS LEFT OUT OF GODS GIFT OF LIVE,SO NO WANDER THAT HIS SERVANTS LIKE YOU HAVE THAT SAME FRUSTRATION AND NEED TO LOWERING OTHERS IN THEIR WEB OF FRUSTRATION AND CRAP OF FALSE RELIGION

    #305894
    Wakeup
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,07:52)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 15 2012,06:56)

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,06:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    Colter.

    Jesus spoke many words of wisdom in the gospels and in the book of revelation.

    Can you quote me some words that Jesus spoke in the book of urantia?

    wakeup.


    Yes, we now have his entire life story.

    I chose the discourse on True Religion

    http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1407#U155_5_0

    Colter


    Hi colter.

    Can you quote a few of his words from the ub?

    wakeup.

    #305896
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 15 2012,05:22)

    Quote (942767 @ July 11 2012,14:18)
    Hi Mike:

    You added that the word WHO to the scripture.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Well Marty,

    Since this Word became flesh and tabernacled (dwelled) among other human beings, and since those other human beings saw HIS glory, I understand this particular Word as a “who”.  But I'll rephrase it for you in the effort of bringing you to the place I am trying to bring you:

    Quote (942767 @ July 08 2012,18:27)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 05 2012,05:23)

    Quote (942767 @ July 01 2012,16:23)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 02 2012,01:14)

    Quote (942767 @ June 30 2012,20:41)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 30 2012,10:14)
    Marty,

    Is it scriptural that John the Baptist called Jesus “the Lamb of God” – even though Jesus wasn't literally a lamb?  YES or NO?


    Yes.


    Hi Marty,

    And is it scriptural that Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” – even though he is not literally a spoke word from God?   YES or NO?


    Yes.


    And is it scriptural that Jesus is called the “monogenes” Son of God?  YES or NO?


    Yes.


    And is it scriptural that the Word THAT became flesh dwelled on earth with the glory of the “monogenes” Son of God?  YES or NO?


    Hi Mike:

    I can't answer this with a simple yes or no.  King James version states “and the Word was made flesh”.  And the word that was translated Word from the Greek is “Logos” and the definition of Logos is as follows:

    Quote
    Definition:

    1.of speech A.a word, uttered by a living voice, embodies a conception or idea
    B.what someone has said a.a word
    b.the sayings of God
    c.decree, mandate or order
    d.of the moral precepts given by God
    e.Old Testament prophecy given by the prophets
    f.what is declared, a thought, declaration, aphorism, a weighty saying, a dictum, a maxim

    C.discourse a.the act of speaking, speech
    b.the faculty of speech, skill and practice in speaking
    c.a kind or style of speaking
    d.a continuous speaking discourse – instruction

    D.doctrine, teaching
    E.anything reported in speech; a narration, narrative
    F.matter under discussion, thing spoken of, affair, a matter in dispute, case, suit at law
    G.the thing spoken of or talked about; event, deed

    2.its use as respect to the MIND alone A.reason, the mental faculty of thinking, meditating, reasoning, calculating
    B.account, i.e. regard, consideration
    C.account, i.e. reckoning, score
    D.account, i.e. answer or explanation in reference to judgment
    E.relation, i.e. with whom as judge we stand in relation a.reason would

    F.reason, cause, ground

    3.In John, denotes the essential Word of God, Jesus Christ, the personal wisdom and power in union with God, his minister in creation and government of the universe, the cause of all the world's life both physical and ethical, which for the procurement of man's salvation put on human nature in the person of Jesus the Messiah, the second person in the Godhead, and shone forth conspicuously from His words and deeds.

    Definition #3 is an opinion.

    The Logos of God pertains to Jesus and once he was made flesh as the “Monogenes” Son of the Living God, yes he dwelled among us, and the scripture states:

    KJV

    Quote
    John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #305897
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 15 2012,08:59)

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,07:52)

    Quote (Wakeup @ July 15 2012,06:56)

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,06:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    Colter.

    Jesus spoke many words of wisdom in the gospels and in the book of revelation.

    Can you quote me some words that Jesus spoke in the book of urantia?

    wakeup.


    Yes, we now have his entire life story.

    I chose the discourse on True Religion

    http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1407#U155_5_0

    Colter


    Hi colter.

    Can you quote a few of his words from the ub?

    wakeup.


    I provided you a link, do you know how to use the link? There are many sermons from Jesus in the UB, some are contained in the gospel books.

    This is from the link I provided for you. I don't want to take the thread off topic with a bunch of UB quotes.

    Said Jesus: “You should all recall how the Psalmist spoke of these times, saying, `Why do the heathen rage and the peoples plot in vain? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers of the people take counsel together, against the Lord and against his anointed, saying, Let us break the bonds of mercy asunder and let us cast away the cords of love.’

    155:1.2 “Today you see this fulfilled before your eyes. But you shall not see the remainder of the Psalmist’s prophecy fulfilled, for he entertained erroneous ideas about the Son of Man and his mission on earth. My kingdom is founded on love, proclaimed in mercy, and established by unselfish service. My Father does not sit in heaven laughing in derision at the heathen. He is not wrathful in his great displeasure. True is the promise that the Son shall have these so-called heathen (in reality his ignorant and untaught brethren) for an inheritance. And I will receive these gentiles with open arms of mercy and affection All this loving-kindness shall be shown the so-called heathen, notwithstanding the unfortunate declaration of the record which intimates that the triumphant Son `shall break them with a rod of iron and dash them to pieces like a potter’s vessel.’ The Psalmist exhorted you to `serve the Lord with fear'—I bid you enter into the exalted privileges of divine sonship by faith; he commands you to rejoice with trembling; I bid you rejoice with assurance. He says, `Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.’ But you who have lived with me well know that anger and wrath are not a part of the establishment of the kingdom of heaven in the hearts of men. But the Psalmist did glimpse the true light when, in finishing this exhortation, he said: `Blessed are they who put their trust in this Son.'”

    155:1.3 Jesus continued to teach the twenty-four, saying: “The heathen are not without excuse when they rage at us. Because their outlook is small and narrow, they are able to concentrate their energies enthusiastically. Their goal is near and more or less visible; wherefore do they strive with valiant and effective execution. You who have professed entrance into the kingdom of heaven are altogether too vacillating and indefinite in your teaching conduct. The heathen strike directly for their objectives; you are guilty of too much chronic yearning. If you desire to enter the kingdom why do you not take it by spiritual assault even as the heathen take a city they lay siege to? You are hardly worthy of the kingdom when your service consists so largely in an attitude of regretting the past, whining over the present, and vainly hoping for the future. Why do the heathen rage? Because they know not the truth. Why do you languish in futile yearning? Because you obey not the truth. Cease your useless yearning and go forth bravely doing that which concerns the establishment of the kingdom.

    155:1.4 “In all that you do, become not one-sided and overspecialized. The Pharisees who seek our destruction verily think they are doing God’s service. They have become so narrowed by tradition that they are blinded by prejudice and hardened by fear. Consider the Greeks, who have a science without religion, while the Jews have a religion without science. And when men become thus misled into accepting a narrow and confused disintegration of truth, their only hope of salvation is to become truth-co-ordinated—converted.

    155:1.5 “Let me emphatically state this eternal truth: If you, by truth co-ordination, learn to exemplify in your lives this beautiful wholeness of righteousness, your fellow men will then seek after you that they may gain what you have so acquired. The measure wherewith truth seekers are drawn to you represents the measure of your truth endowment, your righteousness. The extent to which you have to go with your message to the people is, in a way, the measure of your failure to live the whole or righteous life, the truth-co-ordinated life.”

    Colter

    #305898
    Spock
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,08:37)

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,13:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    colter

    just because i write my comment in an condensate way ,it would not mean that you can interpret it the way you want it , :D

    I STICK TO WHAT I HAVE SAID,AND IT IS NOT OUT OF FEAR ,I ONLY FEAR GOD ALMITHY ,

    BUT LET THIS BE CLEAR ;ANY ONE THAT MAKES A BOOK ABOUT THE SCRIPTURES WITH HIS OWN IDEAS AND WAYS HIS A RELIGION ,AND THERE FOR AS TAKEN AWAY CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES GLORY ,BUT ABOVE ALL THEY HAVE SLANDERED THE GLORY OF GOD HIMSELF ,

    Quote
    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

    THIS COMMENT PLACE YOURSELF IN THE DEVIL CAMP,YOU HAVE LOST ALL TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU ARE NOW FOLLOWING THE DEVIL S WILL AND LECTURES YOUR FATHER IS THE DEVIL ,AND I AM NOT ANGRY,OR FRUSTRATED,IT SEEMS THAT YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL AS BLINDED YOU TO THE POINT THAT YOU HAVE LOST YOUR TASTE FOR GODLY TRUTH ,YOU HAVE NOW DEVELOPED HIS DECIESE “EGO”100% PURE EGO,

    Quote
    frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.


    ONLY THE DEVIL FEELS THIS SORT OF FRUSTRATION ,BECAUSE HE IS LEFT OUT OF GODS GIFT OF LIVE,SO NO WANDER THAT HIS SERVANTS LIKE YOU HAVE THAT SAME FRUSTRATION AND NEED TO LOWERING OTHERS IN THEIR WEB OF FRUSTRATION AND CRAP OF FALSE RELIGION


    Are you drinking? Don't drink and post.

    You may want to look into anger management classes.

    Enjoy

    Colter

    #305899
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,17:33)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,08:37)

    Quote (Colter @ July 15 2012,13:27)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 15 2012,03:56)
    colter

    this is crap ,pure organized religion junk.


    The Urantia Book isn't a religion, we aren't organized as a religion.

    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

     “Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.” Jesus, UB

    I'm sure you are more intelligent then your fears allow you to be. If you were a real truth seeker you would not be so frightened be every new revelation of truth.

    Colter


    colter

    just because i write my comment in an condensate way ,it would not mean that you can interpret it the way you want it , :D

    I STICK TO WHAT I HAVE SAID,AND IT IS NOT OUT OF FEAR ,I ONLY FEAR GOD ALMITHY ,

    BUT LET THIS BE CLEAR ;ANY ONE THAT MAKES A BOOK ABOUT THE SCRIPTURES WITH HIS OWN IDEAS AND WAYS HIS A RELIGION ,AND THERE FOR AS TAKEN AWAY CHRIST AND HIS DISCIPLES GLORY ,BUT ABOVE ALL THEY HAVE SLANDERED THE GLORY OF GOD HIMSELF ,

    Quote
    You seem like an angry person, perhaps frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.

    THIS COMMENT PLACE YOURSELF IN THE DEVIL CAMP,YOU HAVE LOST ALL TRUTH OF GOD ,YOU ARE NOW FOLLOWING THE DEVIL S WILL AND LECTURES YOUR FATHER IS THE DEVIL ,AND I AM NOT ANGRY,OR FRUSTRATED,IT SEEMS THAT YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL AS BLINDED YOU TO THE POINT THAT YOU HAVE LOST YOUR TASTE FOR GODLY TRUTH ,YOU HAVE NOW DEVELOPED HIS DECIESE “EGO”100% PURE EGO,

    Quote
    frustrated by the intellectual limitations of the Bible fetish.


    ONLY THE DEVIL FEELS THIS SORT OF FRUSTRATION ,BECAUSE HE IS LEFT OUT OF GODS GIFT OF LIVE,SO NO WANDER THAT HIS SERVANTS LIKE YOU HAVE THAT SAME FRUSTRATION AND NEED TO LOWERING OTHERS IN THEIR WEB OF FRUSTRATION AND CRAP OF FALSE RELIGION


    Are you drinking? Don't drink and post.

    You may want to look into anger management classes.

    Enjoy

    Colter


    Colter

    That's what crap religion books and their supporters do to me 🏃😃

    #305901
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2012,04:43)

    Quote (942767 @ July 14 2012,11:19)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,14:44)
    Marty

    Quote
    And so, he said that if someone did not want to hear the truth for me to “shake the dust off my feet” for a testimony against that city of that person.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    this respond is so organized religion ,and those words so miss understood ,DO YOU KNOW WHY CHRIST NEVER JOINT ANY OF THOSE RELIGION IN HIS TIME ??? AND WHY DID HE AND HIS APOSTLES STILL WERE GOING TO THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM ???

    AND ONE MORE THING ;2Co 11:10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine.
    2Co 11:11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
    2Co 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    the word of God his the truth and I will stand with it forever .


    Hi Pierre:

    God is the judge.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    no answers ???


    Hi Pierre:

    Are you an Apostle that has been sent by God to Judge me?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #305902
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2012,10:08)

    Quote (942767 @ July 14 2012,04:15)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 13 2012,15:08)

    Quote (942767 @ July 13 2012,14:04)
    Hi Ed:

    God was “justified in the spirit”?  No, God did not become flesh.  God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself.

    Quote
    2Cr 5:18   And all things [are] of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;  

    2Cr 5:19   To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.  


    Hi Marty,

    God tabernacles in our flesh.

    Your brother
    in Christ, Jesus.
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)


    Hi Ed:

    That is correct.  The body of Christ is the “temple of the Holy Ghost”, but God did not become flesh.  God is a Spirit.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    Hi Marty,

    “The Word” was God                  (John 1:1)
    “The Word” was made flesh       (John 1:14)

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Hi Ed:

    The Word = Logos = what God has spoken and embodies an idea. That idea was to make man in his own image. The first Adam was made a living soul. The last Adam was made a living spirit.

    God made all things by him, the last Adam, knowing that in him his plan for humanity would be fulfilled.

    And so, in John 1 the “Logos” pertains to Jesus but is not Jesus as a sentient person.

    In John 1:14 the Logos was made flesh. What God had spoken in the OT beginning with Genesis relative to Jesus was made a reality when Jesus was born into this world of the virgin Mary.

    John 1:1c and the Logos was God is explained in saying that God is love, and he demonstrated this love for humanity by giving us His only begotten Son to be the propitiation for our sins and through whom He would reconcile us unto Himself.

    Quote
    16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

    Quote
    1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #305904
    942767
    Participant

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 14 2012,12:49)

    Quote (942767 @ July 12 2012,20:16)

    Quote (mikeboll64 @ July 12 2012,09:56)

    Quote (942767 @ July 11 2012,15:36)
    This the propetic Word of God which is not a spiritual being who became flesh otherwise you would have and “the Word was God” which you say is Jesus and if so, “Jesus is God” and “the Word became flesh” or “God became flesh”.


    Marty,

    You will NEVER come to a true understanding of scripture until you rid yourself of the Trinitarian translation, “and the Word was God”.  Using this flawed translation, it wouldn't matter WHAT the Word was, because John 1:14 will ALWAYS end up teaching that God became flesh.

    It's a simple equation:

    THE WORD WAS GOD + THE WORD BECAME FLESH = GOD BECAME FLESH

    Now, it appears that you don't believe God became flesh, right?  Neither do I.  But there is no SENSIBLE way around God becoming flesh when using that flawed translation of John 1:1c.

    Nor does that flawed translation make a lick of sense to begin with.  Marty, when you wrote the post I'm responding to, was Marty with you?

    See?  If you ARE Marty, there is no way you can also be WITH Marty.  The only way MARTY can be with MARTY is if there are more than one MARTY.  And the only way GOD can be with GOD is if there are more than one GOD.

    Marty, John 1:1 speaks of a Word who was with THE God in the beginning, and was also a god.  This one, as a god himself, was existing in the form of THE God, but became flesh (emptied himself and was made in the likeness of a human being).

    Eventually, you will know this for a fact.  I'm just trying to get you there a little sooner.


    Hi Mike:

    And so, if you translate John 1:1c as you want to say it should be, “a god was with God” and a god was God, and “a god” became flesh.

    Is this what you want me to believe?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    No Marty,

    I want you to believe what John was actually teaching us:  The one who has the title “the Word of God” was with THE God in the beginning, and the one who has the title “the Word of God” was himself a god.

    John 1:1 NWT
    In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.


    Yes, but if you translate John 1:1c “and the Word was a God” that would mean that John 1:14 would be “and the Word who himself is a god became flesh”, would it not?

    Yes, he was with God in the beginning in the heart of the Father, as a Son whom he would bring forth of a woman at a particular point in time. He was foreordained. He did not exist as a sentient person until he was born into this world.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    #305905
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (942767 @ July 15 2012,17:59)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 14 2012,04:43)

    Quote (942767 @ July 14 2012,11:19)

    Quote (terraricca @ July 13 2012,14:44)
    Marty

    Quote
    And so, he said that if someone did not want to hear the truth for me to “shake the dust off my feet” for a testimony against that city of that person.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty

    this respond is so organized religion ,and those words so miss understood ,DO YOU KNOW WHY CHRIST NEVER JOINT ANY OF THOSE RELIGION IN HIS TIME ??? AND WHY DID HE AND HIS APOSTLES STILL WERE GOING TO THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM ???

    AND ONE MORE THING ;2Co 11:10 As surely as the truth of Christ is in me, nobody in the regions of Achaia will stop this boasting of mine.
    2Co 11:11 Why? Because I do not love you? God knows I do!
    2Co 11:12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.
    2Co 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ.
    2Co 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
    2Co 11:15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

    the word of God his the truth and I will stand with it forever .


    Hi Pierre:

    God is the judge.

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    no answers ???


    Hi Pierre:

    Are you an Apostle that has been sent by God to Judge me?

    Love in Christ,
    Marty


    hi Marty

    what make you think that God would do a thing like that for you ,??? even with his word in your hands you seem not to look into it for truth,

    is not the scriptures the judge of all things in man ???

    Jn 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

    #305907
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (Colter @ July 14 2012,17:26)
    He says, `Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish when his wrath is kindled.’


    Hi Colter,

    It's interesting that Jesus related Ps 2:12 as “Kiss the Son”.  There seems to be more and more speculation that this rendering is a mistranslation of 2:12.  

    Clarke's Commentary on the Bible
    Kiss the Son, lest he be angry – It is remarkable that the word son (בר bar, a Chaldee word) is not found in any of the versions except the Syriac, nor indeed any thing equivalent to it.

    The Chaldee, Vulgate, Septuagint, Arabic, and Ethiopic, have a term which signifies doctrine or discipline: “Embrace discipline, lest the Lord be angry with you,” etc. This is a remarkable case, and especially that in so pure a piece of Hebrew as this poem is, a Chaldee word should have been found; rb bar, instead of b ben, which adds nothing to the strength of the expression or the elegance of the poetry.  I know it is supposed that rb bar is also pure Hebrew, as well as Chaldee; but as it is taken in the former language in the sense of purifying, the versions probably understood it so here. Embrace that which is pure; namely, the doctrine of God.

    From NETNotes:
    Traditionally, “kiss the son” (KJV). But בַּר (bar) is the Aramaic word for “son,” not the Hebrew. For this reason many regard the reading as suspect. Some propose emendations of vv. 11b-12a. One of the more popular proposals is to read בִּרְעָדָה נַשְּׁקוּ לְרַגְלָיו (bir’adah nashÿqu lÿraslayv, “in trembling kiss his feet”). It makes better sense to understand בַּר (bar) as an adjective meaning “pure” (see Pss 24:4) functioning here in an adverbial sense.

    I find it truly interesting that the LXX has, Accept correction, lest at any time the Lord be angry………., since Jesus and the writers of the NT quoted from the LXX 67% of the time.

    #305908
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Quote (942767 @ July 14 2012,19:32)
    Yes, but if you translate John 1:1c “and the Word was a God” that would mean that John 1:14 would be “and the Word who himself is a god became flesh”, would it not?


    Yes…………….. AND? :)

    Aren't we also told that Jesus was existing in the form of God (ie: “a god” in Biblical usage) and was made into the likeness of a human being?

    #305912
    jammin
    Participant

    mike boy
    im still waiting for your answer

    mike boy
    your father is HUMAN
    are you not HUMAN?

    Christ's father is GOD
    is Christ not GOD?

    you just pick yes or no
    the question is categorical

    #305914
    terraricca
    Participant

    Quote (jammin @ July 15 2012,21:00)
    mike boy
    im still waiting for your answer

    mike boy
    your father is HUMAN
    are you not HUMAN?

    Christ's father is GOD
    is Christ not GOD?

    you just pick yes or no
    the question is categorical


    :ghostface: :ghostface: :ghostface: :D

    #305916
    mikeboll64
    Blocked

    Pierre……….. :D :laugh: :D

    jammin, you are rapidly ruining what little good reputation you ever had on this site. You run around calling everyone “boy” and asking the same questions we've already answered before.

    But since your memory doesn't seem to be the greatest, he we are one more time:

    YES, my father is human, and therefore I am A human – but not the SAME human as my father.

    And YES, Christ's Father is God, and therefore, he is A god – but not the SAME god as his Father.

    #305922
    kerwin
    Participant

    Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2012,08:07)

    Quote (kerwin @ July 14 2012,12:42)

    Quote (Ed J @ July 14 2012,05:08)
    [quote=942767,July 14 2012,04:15]
    Hi Marty,

    “The Word” was God                  (John 1:1)
    “The Word” was made flesh       (John 1:14)

    God bless
    Ed J


    Ed,

    You are making assumptions about how the Word is God and how the Word is made flesh.

    Reveal how you arrived at your conclusions and how they relate to the idea that God lives in the flesh through his Spirit.


    Hi Kerwin,

    God lives in the flesh through his Spirit.  (this is exactly what I meant; thanks!)   :)   

    God bless
    Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
    http://www.holycitybiblecode.org


    Ed,

    You are welcome though I believe my wording was awkward. You still seemed to have figured out my intent. That was a fine job.

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