Even demons believe he is the son of God

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April 30, 2024 at 1:55 am#946407
GeneBalthrop
Participant
DT…… no matter what anyone say and what scriptures they give you, to support their claim, you simply ignore them or simply say they don’t mean what they say , now you say the book of Plams was a book written “to” David , instead of DAVID writing it, them you say it was saying the David would not suffer the corruption of his body in the grave which you con-screw as not meaning the grave. Then you tell us that Isaiah was not talking about a human being suffering the Sin of the people but that it was Israel. So tell us how was Israel’s body marred more then anyone else.
DT, your what, I call, “a Gandy dancer, ” , YOUR ALL OVER THE PLACE , trying to make your own new ideas of what the scriptures actually say, saying the “original” Hebrew means this or that, to support you false conclusions, IMO,
SO there is not point in debating you on any scripture, because you will just say “you didn’t answer my question, according to who’s thinking? , yours of course. You not here for an honest debate, but to push your own form of religion, the very thing you accuse others of is what you are doing. Look if your new found religion rejects Jesus as the true Messiah of God, that’s fine with me, but don’t think for a minute, I or others here think that, that’s your huckleberry not ours. You or anyone else Jew or Gentile , will never convince me of that. You can hate the apostle Paul all you want also , but to me and and the apostle Peter think, he was one of the most intelligent of all the Apostles.
I am not going to sit here and argue with you over and over about, “your brand of new religious thoughts” that includes the rejection of Jesus as the Messiah, Paul as a true apostle, and hundreds of other scripture also , it’s a waste of our time. IMO.
Peace and love to you and your DT………..gene
April 30, 2024 at 5:18 pm#946408
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
In nothing you responded with have you supported why you believe what you believe. You have asked no questions, but accuse me of creating “new religious thoughts”; yet these “new thoughts” are anything but new.
You need to look up “gandy dancer”, don’t think it means what you think it does. I can assure you I don’t work on laying railroads.
What makes Jesus the Messiah? What would you tell someone who asks you why Jesus is the Messiah?
May 1, 2024 at 5:14 am#946410
Jodi
Participant
Hi Proclaimer and All,
Adam was NOT created perfect, if he was, than he would not be able to sin!
Yes, Adam chose his own way and Jesus chose God’s way, but HOW was Jesus able to walk in all of God’s ways and follow God’s will and not his own?
The answer is not because he pre-existed perfect and then came down from heaven being transformed into some sort of perfect hybrid one of a kind being to whom could then die for our sins.
The answer is because Jesus had been called to righteousness, just as God had promised unto a Son of Man.
John 1:51 And he saith unto him,Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.
What had been promised unto a Son of Man?
1 Chronicles 17, that God would take a son of Man (a son of David) and make him into His own Son AND settle him into His Kingdom.
What did Jesus, the Son of Man preach?
3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God…Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
What happened to the man Jesus?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him. 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Jesus was born of water and of the Spirit and he is most certainly a man that entered into God’s eternal kingdom. This Son of Man sits right now at God’s right hand.
What did Jesus also preach,
39…Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized: 40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world
What did Jesus also preach,
Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have FOLLOWED ME, in the regeneration (NEW BIRTH) when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 In this the children of God are manifest…
We are to be made into the image of the Son, that image is clearly given to us, it is one where you are LED BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD. God was in Jesus, the Spirit of God came to abode in him and it’s fruit is in ALL GOODNESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TRUTH. The people beheld the glory of him who was FULL of TRUTH, the one who had been FILLED with the Spirit not by measure to speak God’s TRUTH.
You have to be completely blind to not accept that the bible clearly teaches that these all represent THE SAME THING, born of the Spirit is the same as being born of God, which means God’s Spirit has come to abode in you. We are to follow Jesus in the NEW BIRTH, we are to receive his same baptism, we are to drink of the same cup that he drinks of, drink of the ONE SPIRIT.
Romans 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
By one man, Jesus Christ (ANOINTED OF THE SPIRIT/THE SPIRIT ABODING IN HIM, THE SPIRIT BEGOTTEN IN HIM)
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Proclaimer, why would our heavenly Father forgive the sins of the world through ONE MAN? BECAUSE that one man is an example of what our Father’s Spirit can accomplish in all men, for the fruit of the Spirit truly is in all goodness righteousness and truth.
The Spirit in Jesus bore witness to Jesus’s spirit that he was a Son of God. The miracles he performed, the words of truth that he spoke, caused people to believe the glory of God was dwelling in him, he could do nothing of himself. Jesus had been begotten of the Spirit not by measure filled with the Spirit giving him grace and truth. He was sent out into the world being fully LED by the Spirit of God that was dwelling in him, he was born of the Spirit and by such he is the image of the Son. Jesus Christ did not come of his own, God sent him, thus he came down directly to us from heaven/from God.
This is the GOSPEL! We are justified because Jesus is the example of what YHVH’s Spirit can accomplish in all men. Believe that God came to abode in Jesus of Nazareth and by such we are then promised to also have God in us, God’s Spirit being born in us.
All you people do is deny the Spirit and by such you deny the Father and His Son. You deny that the son of David, Jesus, was indeed made into a Son of God just as was promised. You deny that this man was indeed baptized, you deny that this man was indeed called to righteousness, you deny that this man indeed was born of God’s Spirit/ having God aboding in him.
May 1, 2024 at 6:21 am#946411
Danny Dabbs
Participant
May 1, 2024 at 7:38 am#946412
Berean
Participant
@ Jodi
You
Adam was NOT created perfect, if he was, than he would not be able to sin!
Me
Fake
Adam was created perfect and perfectible thanks to the intelligence and free choice that God gave him, not to mention his physical faculties.
you
The answer is not because he pre-existed perfect and then came down from heaven being transformed into some sort of perfect hybrid one of a kind being to whom could then die for our sins.
me
Nobody preaches that here anyway…
It’s a view of your distorted mind that makes you say this and shows how misguided you are.

There’s no point going any further, it’s a waste of time.
May 1, 2024 at 12:47 pm#946413
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
You: you say the book of Plams was a book written “to” David , instead of DAVID writing it.
Me: For those unaware, this is a reference to Psalm 110 and NOT the entire book of Psalms; a book said to be written by multiple authors and not David alone.
For your viewing pleasure Gene:
Riddle me Gene, what does the Hebrew say? Of David a Psalm; what it doesn’t say is “A Psalm of David”. Another translation says “A Psalm for David” or “Regarding David, a Psalm.” Even the NIV got this right and accurately translates the Hewbrew to “Of David a Psalm”; but I’m making stuff up. NO, I’m reading what’s there, are you?!?
Take the Hebrew and put it into a translator: לדוד מזמור נאם יהוה ׀ לאדני שב לימיני עד־אשית איביך הדם לרגליך׃
and we get: “To David, Psalm of Jehovah’s speech, to my lord, sit on my right until the fire of your blood, at your feet”
If you are going to say I am wrong, please back it up with proof. Again, word studies are your friend and help to illuminate the unkown.
May 1, 2024 at 5:12 pm#946414
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
You: them (then) you say it was saying ~~the~~ David would not suffer the corruption of his body in the grave
Me: That isn’t what you said was it? Going back to post #946389 what you actually said was: “AND WHAT ABOUT THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY God would not leave his soul in hell to see corruption?”
Seems you changed your wording to “grave” from “hell” I said the Hebrew is Sheol which means grave and was confirmed by referring to Strong’s. Are hell and the grave the same place? Not according to Christianity. Then I said the word translated as “corruption” really means “pit” and according to Strong’s, the “pit of Sheol.”
Again for your viewing pleasure, taken from biblehub: “Pit of Sheol” Psalm 16:10
So Gene, it isn’t me “con-screwing” (not sure what word you meant) this, this is me using the references available to study.
Concerning the “David would not suffer the corruption of his body in the grave”; David isn’t speaking of his body in this passage, but his soul. You really need to read the entire chapter and put verse 10 in context with the rest of it. David is speaking of how God is “his portion in both life and deliverer in death”; yet, Christianity steals one verse out of this and applies it to Jesus.
May 2, 2024 at 2:36 am#946415
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
You: tell us how was Israel’s body marred more then anyone else.
Me: tell me what nationality has been persecuted more than the Israelite nation for just being a descendant of the nation? What nationality suffered the same as the Jewish people did during WWII – think holocaust. What nationality has endured wide spread discrimination everywhere they have lived? Can you explain why, throughout history, the goal of certain religions has been to eradicate the Jewish faith; yet, there has been a “remnant” that has remained to continue and the Jewish faith continues? Martin Luther famously stated in his booklet “The Jew & Their Lies”, “First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them.” Luther hated the Jews because they rejected the Jesus and wouldn’t convert to Christianity.
Yesterday, a young girl is beaten unconscious because she was carrying a Israeli flag, two students said they were Jewish and were punched receiving a broken nose and “injured” jaw, students have been attacked, spit on, and objects thrown at them, passing from one building to the next, another student posting in a forum talks about killing, injuring, and raping Jewish students, and this list goes on. What people have been “marred” more than anyone else? I have to wonder???
The larger question is why this is primarily happening on campuses around the United States; it won’t be long before this spills into the streets as the semester ends and if you live in the United States, be aware of your surroundings because this is about to go kinetic.
May 2, 2024 at 2:42 am#946416
GeneBalthrop
Participant
DT…..I know David did not ‘write” all of the BOOK OF PSALMS, I have known that for over 50 years now. But that particular Psalm we’re talking about, was direct at David’s descendent, why?, because David’ s (body ) did see corruption in the pit i.e grave. BUT Jesus , who said he was the “root and offspring of David”, did not have his (body) see corruption, but was resurrected from the grave before it did. Those were “prophetic” words, written about King David descendent, Jesus Christ, the true Messiah of God.
DT, you and your “NEW SELF”, MANUFACTURED RELIGION, have become unable to understand that, as you have with many other scriptures also.
But, Riddle me this, why are you wasting your time and ours, trying to convince us that the New Testament is not relevant, nor agrees with the scriptures written in the Old Testament, and that Paul, Peter, and Jesus , didn’t know what they were saying and meaning, but you somehow do?
Your “new’, self enlightenment, is you simply throwing out the baby with the wash, as I have said before. To bad you can’t see, to rightly, divide the word of truth, instead of rejecting them all, to fit you own new found religion.
peace and love to you and yours DT……….gene
May 2, 2024 at 4:52 am#946417
Danny Dabbs
Participant
@jodi
Hi Jodi,
1 John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
May 2, 2024 at 5:02 pm#946418
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
I can ask you the same question of why you’re here; when you peddle your own musings as the only truth. How many times have you told others they are wrong and proceed to explain your religious beliefs as if they are the only truth to be had. Remember you were quite pleased with what I was saying when I first joined; but you never asked what changed or why I now reject Christianity.
Apparently I’m hitting nerves since you are the fourth person who wants me to leave. Two of you have now said I’m trying to change your beliefs; not even close. You must see what you don’t want to see before you will change. I have asked many questions none of you have been able to answer and that tells me you are attached to your belief system and it is more important to you. If the NT is the word of God, how can any argue or debate what it says? There shouldn’t be one confusing word within it’s pages; yet, scholars can’t even agree with what is written. Explain why the NT is called the “inspired Word of God” when the quotes used in the NT from the Tanakh aren’t the same. Did the “spirit of God” have a lapse of memory? I gave you a list of qualifications the Messiah is to accomplish, with references, and you ignored it. The only thing I can surmise is you know Jesus only fulfilled one, he was Jewish. You won’t touch with a ten foot pole how Jesus is in the line of David and Solomon when his father was the spirit of God and the book of Numbers tells us the men are to be counted with their father’s tribe. But you have your “I Believe Button” that you smash on a daily basis to remain right with your religion.
The questions I have asked unfortunately cannot be answered by Christianity; that would require one to verify what is being taught and we can’t have that, that’s to much work. You can continue to accuse me of creating something new, but it’s actually old and has been around at least twice as long as “Christianity.”
Ask yourself what is Noahide, then go discover it or not; your choice.

PS
The entire chapter Ps 16 is David speaking of his soul and somehow you come away with the physical body. How do you not see this??? Are you this stuck on verse 10 having to be about Jesus you can’t see what is literally being said?
May 3, 2024 at 2:34 am#946419
GeneBalthrop
Participant
DT……RIDDLE ME THIS “O” WISE ONE…….Gen 2:2…..> “And the LORD God formed man “OF” the dust of the “GROUND” and breathe into his nostrils the breath of life: and man became a “living soul “.   That is exactly what a “man” is, nothing more and nothing less. A-Man is not a “soul” without a “living body”.
Jesus the MESSIAH said, …….> don’t fear them that can destroy the body and after that can do nothing else, but fear him (the LORD God), that can destroy “BOTH”, the body and soul, where?, IN HELL, ( grave). yes if God does not resurrect your “BODY” you are dead , FOREVER”. YES, HE CAN SIMPLY LEAVE YOU IN THE GRAVE AND YOU ARE GONE FOREVER, you will exist no more, as a “living Soul”.
Jesus the Messiah said , “you “MUST” BE BORN AGAIN”. why? because in order for you to live again after death, you have to have another “physical” body that’s why. He also said every hair on you head is numbered , meaning their DNA is preserved, why ? For future regeneration.
And again scripture says…….> ” now if the spirit of him that raised Jesus from the “dead”(spirit of God). dwell in you, he who raised Christ from the dead, shall also quicken your “mortal”(dead), “BODY” , by the same SPIRIT that dwells in you. (If you have it in you that is).
Seems the actual scriptures disagree with you again, “O” WISE ONE!
peace and love to you and yours DT……….gene

May 3, 2024 at 3:50 am#946420
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
Adam and Eve were ignorant, they lacked considerable wisdom, understanding, knowledge and fear of YHVH, ALL THINGS to which the man Jesus had been filled with.
A human being, Jesus, had God’s grace upon him growing in wisdom from his childhood and then at the river Jordan when he was a man, he was then born of the Spirit of God without measure.
Jesus taught that he was a Son of Man, that he could do nothing of himself and all that he did was BECAUSE GOD WAS IN HIM. God aboding in him is the same thing as him having been born of the Spirit, him becoming God’s Son. Further, Jesus didn’t send himself out into the world, God did. With God sending him and God dwelling in him for the purpose that he do all of God’s works performing all of God’s will, such is exactly why Jesus said that he came down from heaven and that seeing him was seeing God.
Prophecy of the coming Messiah was that he would be a man called by YHVH to righteousness TO FULFILL GOD’S COVENANT AND BE FOR A LIGHT, a glory that was of God for this man before the world began.
Prophecy of the coming Messiah was that he would be a man filled with the Spirit of YHVH and would fulfill all of YHVH’s will, including ruling the world in peace and righteousness, a glory that was of God for this man before the world began.
To be RIGHTEOUS IS TO BE BORN OF GOD, where the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness and truth.
Berean, if Jesus is the Messiah then he had to be the man to whom God called to righteousness as such was God’s WORD. We are directly given that being righteous is to have been born of God, born of the Spirit.
Prophecy of the eternal king was that he would be a man to whom God would make into His Son and would settle him into His kingdom, a glory that was of God for this man before the world was.
Jesus was a Son of God because he had been born of the Spirit of God, such is a calling to righteousness as to be righteous is to be born of God.
Prophecy was that a man would be exalted to God’s right hand, which was a glory that was of God for this man before the world was.
Prophecy is that a Son of Man is returning in God’s glory to fulfill God’s will. As we are given, he has God’s Spirit aboding in him where by such he is a righteous judge and ruler overall the earth. He is righteous because he has been born of God, born of God’s Spirit, such is the Son of Man Jesus returning in the glory of our Father.
May 3, 2024 at 8:47 am#946421
Berean
Participant
@ Jodi
Adam and Eve were ignorant, they lacked considerable wisdom, understanding, knowledge and fear of YHVH, ALL THINGS to which the man Jesus had been filled with.
Me
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Chap. 2
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
[8] And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
[15] And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
19] And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
[20] And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field;
Rom.3:[23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Because of sin, humanity fell short of the glory of God, which means that our first parents, Adam and Eve, before their sin, were not short of the glory of God.
They were in the image and likeness of God
The garment that covered them was “the glory of God.” This nakedness of which they were not ashamed (Gen.2:25)
Could it be that they are ignorant as you say?
I doubt
What I believe is that they were bathed in happiness and that they were not stupid.
Adam still named all the animals! (Gen.2:19,20)
🙏
May 4, 2024 at 1:04 am#946423
DesireTruth
Participant
@Gene,
With all the chords that are being struck right now, it’s like a symphony is playing.
Just stop with the vitriol and answer how Jesus is the “messiah” when, according to Numbers 1:2 “all the congregation of the children of Israel, by their families, by their fathers’ houses, according to the number of the names, every male, one by one;” The men, according to God, are to be numbered with their fathers’ house/tribe. Jesus wasn’t conceived of the seed of man, but of the spirit. So how can Jesus be of any tribe of Israel when his “biological” father isn’t from a tribe of Israel?
Jesus’ claim of messiahship is the foundation of Christianity; but, if Jesus’ biological ancestry isn’t of the tribe of Judah, how can he be the Messiah? This is the only question that matters and demands a truthful answer.
When quoting Rev 22:16 and using that as your proof of Jesus being a descendant of David creates a problem with the books of Matthew and Luke. Someone’s not telling the truth.
May 4, 2024 at 5:07 am#946425
Jodi
Participant
Hi Berean,
Yes, scripture tells us that man was created in God’s image, what does that mean though? How was man created in the image of God?
My point still stands, Adam and Eve were ignorant, is that what you would consider to be the image of our God?
Adam and Eve ate of the forbidden fruit BECAUSE they DESIRED TO BE WISE, even they at least knew that they were not created in the image of God as it pertains to His Wisdom, His Understanding, His Council and Might, His Knowledge.
Adam and Eve were capable of sin, is that what you would consider also to be the image of our God? Is our God capable of sin also?
Were Adam and Eve created having life in themselves as God has life in Himself or were Adam and Eve’s lives at the mercy of God?
Of all the living souls that God had created, only man was said to have been made in God’s image. How is man unlike all the other living souls that God had created but is like God, to where we are told that man had been created in God’s image?
I also have another question for you Berean.
We are to be made in the image of the Son, so why did God not just make us as He did the Son, right after He had made the Son?

May 4, 2024 at 6:14 am#946426
T3
Participant
@DesireTruth:
Given the supernatural circumstances of Jesus’ birth, how can He be considered to be of the tribe of Judah and therefore qualify to be the Messiah? Consider the following facts:
- The passage from Numbers would be important only when a child’s father was from one tribe (e.g., Benjamin), and the mother was from another (e.g., Simeon). The provision to “number” through the father’s lineage was simply a clean, simple way to settle any potential confusion / disagreement. Because if both mother and father were from the same tribe, then this provision from Numbers is effectively a moot point.
- Whereas Matthew’s genealogy traces back to David through Solomon, Luke’s traces back to David through Nathan. Why the difference? Because while Matthew is giving Joseph’s lineage, Luke is tracing the lineage of Mary’s father, who also happens to be of the “line of David” and therefore the “tribe of Judah”. Thus, even apart from Joseph’s “biological input”, so to speak, Jesus would still be technically “qualified” to be the Messiah simply by virtue of His mother’s (i.e. grandfather’s) family line. Put differently, the Numbers provision about the father makes no difference in Jesus’ case…hence Joseph’s lack of involvement in the process is effectively irrelevant in determining Jesus’ earthly tribal membership. Now if Mary were from the tribe of Simeon, for instance, I would concede that you have a point.
- Aside from the point about Mary’s line being sufficient to support Jesus’ own earthly lineage, it is important to note that–technically–Jesus would have been Joseph’s adopted son. As such, by virtue of Jewish law / custom, Jesus would have been regarded as Joseph’s own son with all the rights and privileges of a biological son. Think about this in relation to our own status as “children of God” who have become fellow heirs with Christ. Even though we once had no part in Him, God now regards us as one of His own; for whereas Jesus is the “natural” Son, we are sons / daughters by adoption.
So taking these points into consideration, it seems clear that the legitimacy of Jesus’ claim to be a son of David / of the line of Judah is not in jeopardy simply because of His miraculous birth.
May 4, 2024 at 6:21 am#946427
T3
Participant
Hi Proclaimer. Apologies if I’ve already posted this link in this forum before, but here’s my take on the whole Logos question: The Word of God

May 4, 2024 at 6:30 am#946428
T3
Participant
A few years back, I decided to publish my 25 years of research / musings on this doctrine, “Testing the Trinity”. It is available through most on-line booksellers in either paperback or e-book format, but I also published the full book on-line and free of charge here.
About 2/3 of the book is dedicated to exposing the house of cards that is the Trinity, and the rest explores an alternative paradigm that I believe stays true to revealed Scripture without relying on extra-Biblical ideas (like the Trinity does) to “fill in the blanks”, so to speak. There are still some challenging passages to wrestle with, for sure, but not nearly as many as the Trinity has to dance around to maintain its integrity.
Have a look and let me know what you think!

May 4, 2024 at 12:56 pm#946429
DesireTruth
Participant
@T3
You: The passage from Numbers would be important only when a child’s father was from one tribe (e.g., Benjamin), and the mother was from another (e.g., Simeon). The provision to “number” through the father’s lineage was simply a clean, simple way to settle any potential confusion / disagreement. Because if both mother and father were from the same tribe, then this provision from Numbers is effectively a moot point.
Me: Actually the point of Numbers chapter 1 was to take a census of the men of fighting age; nothing “moot” about what God told Moses to do. The fact is, the men were to be counted through their father’s house/tribe; a practice that is still done today. I didn’t pick up anything about tribal lineage being thru the mother; did you?
You: Matthew’s genealogy traces back to David through Solomon, Luke’s traces back to David through Nathan.
Me: And Matthew puts Jechoniah in this lineage, a king God said was to be remember as childless; therefore no descendants of his would be king of Judah and the kingship thru Jechoniah ended with him. The writer of Matthew made a huge mistake. Now running the lineage thru Mary back to Nathan is another dead end because it was God who said David’s throne was to be established thru Solomon. How does no one see this?!?!
You: Joseph’s lack of involvement in the process is irrelevant in determining Jesus’ earthly tribal membership.
Me: Joseph’s “lack of involvement” is irrelevant?!?! Not according to God; HE’s the one who said HE would raise up a seed after David. This is biological, not that HE would impregnate an earthly woman – sounds eerily similar to what Greek and Roman gods did to mortal women to create demigods; is Jesus a demigod? By definition, YES! Isn’t it funny how people think it’s ridiculous of the Greek and Romans to have their gods impregnate a mortal woman; but when it comes to Jesus how dare you not accept it as happening.
You: Jesus would have been Joseph’s adopted son, and by Jewish law / custom would therefore have been regarded as Joseph’s own son with all the rights and privileges of a biological son.
Me: Absolutely, 100% agree!! As one who was adopted, I was treated as though my parents conceived me, but can I say I’m biologically my fathers child? The answer is no. Anyways, there is a big however in your statement. According to Jewish law, the child is hereditarily tied to his (or her) biological parents. If the male child’s biological father is a Levite, by Jewish tradition, and the child must also accept the priestly customs. In the case of Jesus, his father is the “spirit of God” and since God doesn’t belong to any tribe of Israel, which tribe can Jesus claim? Another issue is created when Jesus claims in Rev 22:16 of being the “root and offspring of David”; his biological father isn’t in the line of David.
You: though we once had no part in Him, God regards us as one of His own
Me: Are we not created by God in HIS image? So why do you believe God wants nothing to do with HIS creation unless you have the Jesus? Abraham didn’t have Jesus, but was a friend of God. Moses didn’t have Jesus, yet spoke directly with HIM. David, even in all his failures, was righteous before God. What made these men and everyone else in the Tanakh different/special and why today do we need “someone” to come before God?
When you say “we once had no part in Him” is a false teaching; we’ve always been able to come before God. You need to read the book of Jonah and when you get to the end, pay special attention to the last two verses. It is everything you need to know about the love God has for his creation. God doesn’t love you because of Jesus; HE loves you because he created you and when man places anything between themselves and HIM, it’s man who severs this connection, not God.
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Even demons believe he is the son of God

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